« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2  All

Topic: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?  (Read 8617 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NJAntman

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1565
  • Gender: Male
  • Jusssst short of a 1000 Taldren posts, damn!!
Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« on: July 02, 2009, 10:25:57 pm »
Still having issues with overheating system; haven't been able to pin down where HWMonitor reads TMPIN2 from but when it gets over 225F it's shutdown time.

Figured I'd better check the DDR2 to see if still OK so I loaded up MemTest86+ and let it run. About 3 minutes in right about 16% into 1st pass, shutdown. Let it sit an hour and ran it again and whamo, right about 15%  another shutdown. Let it sit 1.5 hours and ran and again it shutdown at about 16%. No errors listed just before shutdowns. Loaded up normally to WinXP a half hour later and the HWMonitor reported TMPIN2 as 215F and CPU Core #0 at 192F and Core#1 at 216F, a half hour later! As i write this it is a half hour past bootup and the temps are down about 135F all across the three.

Since I can't get through a full pass of MemTest before shutdown I don't know if the chips have errors but it seems they sure as hell are overheating. I'm thinking TTMPIN2 might be located right around the DDR slots.

So the question for you computer gurus out there is do DDR2 chips overheat that quickly (3-4minutes) when tested? If these chips are heat damaged shouldn't I be getting errors right out of the starting blocks? Obviously time for some replacement RAM.
Logged
G.R.I.P. - Great Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Offline Capt. Mike

  • Live from Granpa's Grotto
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6616
  • Gender: Male
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2009, 03:42:33 am »
Here's an idea..just throwing it out there

 http://www.farayandmea.com/Productsviewer.aspx?rand=HmvTP+1gLKsqEg1Ocb3Sjg== 

Mike
Logged
Summum ius summa iniuria.

The more law, the less justice.

Cicero, De Officiis, I, 33

"It doesn't, and you can't, I won't, and it don't
it hasn't, it isn't, it even ain't, and it shouldn't
it couldn't"
FZ, 1974

My chops were not as fast...[but] I just leaned more on what was in my mind than what was in my chops.  I learned a long time ago that one note can go a long way if it's the right one, and it will probably whip the guy with twenty notes.
 --Les Paul

Offline NJAntman

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1565
  • Gender: Male
  • Jusssst short of a 1000 Taldren posts, damn!!
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2009, 06:03:54 am »
Interesting find, and only about $15 at Newegg. If something like that would work maybe I can just leave of the side cover and blow some compressed air on the chips next time I run a memory intensive app like a virus scan. If I see a big drop in temps maybe I've nailed down what the problem is. Assuming I don't screw the chips by cooling too fast?
Logged
G.R.I.P. - Great Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13067
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2009, 07:53:00 am »
What temperatures does your BIOS report? 

Quote
PU Core #0 at 192F and Core#1 at 216F,

I find the CPU temperatures to be extremely high and wonder at the accuracy of the reports.
Logged
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Dracho

  • Global Moderator
  • Rear Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 18289
  • Gender: Male
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2009, 11:23:46 am »
Are the voltages set to auto?
Logged
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline NJAntman

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1565
  • Gender: Male
  • Jusssst short of a 1000 Taldren posts, damn!!
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 06:07:27 pm »
Quote from: Nemesis on July 03, 2009, 07:53:00 am
What temperatures does your BIOS report? 

Quote
PU Core #0 at 192F and Core#1 at 216F,

I find the CPU temperatures to be extremely high and wonder at the accuracy of the reports.

To answer that question I rebooted from WinXP to BIOS to see what i could see but the only available measurement is Current System Temp (never budged from 33C) and Current CPU Temp which started at 70C and gradually went up to 83C over the space of less than five minutes just sitting there in BIOS, before crashing. A an hour later as I type this CPU core#0 is floating around 56C and core#1 at 54C; the max values when I opened the HW Monitor were 72C & 74C.
Logged
G.R.I.P. - Great Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Offline NJAntman

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1565
  • Gender: Male
  • Jusssst short of a 1000 Taldren posts, damn!!
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2009, 06:09:55 pm »
Quote from: Dracho on July 03, 2009, 11:23:46 am
Are the voltages set to auto?

The only voltage parameters in the BIOS that I could mess with are all set to"Normal" vs. specific voltage choices. I haven't changed a setting since I got this computer.
Logged
G.R.I.P. - Great Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13067
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009, 09:08:42 pm »
It crashed while in the BIOS screen?  I don't think I've ever heard of that happening let alone seen it.  Let us know what the final solution is.
Logged
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2009, 09:24:17 pm »
Two things came to mind:

As nemesis, the accuracy of the readings from HWMonitor (bad thermocouple? - The BIOS suggests not.) Crashing from the BIOS? What year and make is the machine? Does it have an EFI or traditional BIOS?

Second thing that came to mind is I seem to recall reading about the potential emergence of hardware thermal protection exploits in malware.  Run RootKitRevealer, study the results carefully. Do you happen to have a virtual sound device driver installed that you never installed yourself? (A very versatile and powerful rootkit I've been seeing around lately....)

Are these memory sticks original to the machine or new? If new, who installed them?
Logged

Offline NJAntman

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1565
  • Gender: Male
  • Jusssst short of a 1000 Taldren posts, damn!!
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2009, 10:15:11 pm »
Quote from: Nemesis on July 03, 2009, 09:08:42 pm
It crashed while in the BIOS screen?  I don't think I've ever heard of that happening let alone seen it.  Let us know what the final solution is.

1st time I've ever seen that also, but i had just been in WinXP and logged off, shut down, and booted to BIOS without much pause so the CPU must have been hot. While I was in BIOS I was jumping between sub menus so maybe that let the CPU heat up past the threshold (set at 80C). Not really a crash, more like a self shutdown once past the threshold? Still I wonder if I'm just jumping between options in BIOS menus without selecting anything is that going to heat the CPU, the RAM chips, both?
Logged
G.R.I.P. - Great Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Offline NJAntman

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1565
  • Gender: Male
  • Jusssst short of a 1000 Taldren posts, damn!!
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2009, 10:57:52 pm »
Quote from: Bonk on July 03, 2009, 09:24:17 pm
Two things came to mind:

As nemesis, the accuracy of the readings from HWMonitor (bad thermocouple? - The BIOS suggests not.) Crashing from the BIOS? What year and make is the machine? Does it have an EFI or traditional BIOS?

Second thing that came to mind is I seem to recall reading about the potential emergence of hardware thermal protection exploits in malware.  Run RootKitRevealer, study the results carefully. Do you happen to have a virtual sound device driver installed that you never installed yourself? (A very versatile and powerful rootkit I've been seeing around lately....)

Are these memory sticks original to the machine or new? If new, who installed them?
What is an EFI?

system specs , a downgraded Gamer Ultra 7500 SE purchased from CyberPowerPC in March 2007:
CoolerMaster Stacker 830 Tower W/ Side-Panel Window
(Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 3600+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology
FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK + 3 EXTRA CASE FANS
HDD: Single Hard Drive (250GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)GigaByte GA-M55SLI-S4 nForce4 SLI Chipset DDR2/800 SATA 16x PCI-Express MBoard w/GbLAN,IEEE1394,USB2.0,&7.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory
XP Home Edition w/ Service Pack 3
POWERSUPPLY: Apevia 680W BEAST POWER ATX Power Supply
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT 512MB PCI Express x16
16X DVD ROM

Tried RootKitRevealer but had to abort 10 minutes in as scanning pics in the My Documents folder had the temps up to 226F on Core#1 and 240F on TMPIN2.
Logged
G.R.I.P. - Great Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Offline Javora

  • America for Americans first.
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3002
  • Gender: Male
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2009, 02:10:45 am »
Ok, two things I would suggest is first remove the case side panel and aim a large fan directly at the motherboard and set the fan on high.  Then turn the system on and go into Bios, the main Bios screen should have a temp reading that is constantly updated.  Once your in the Bios, just set and watch the temp.  If the temp goes from zero to overheat/shutdown in about 2 seconds with a fan blowing on it then I would suspect the motherboard sensor (yes they do go bad).  If the temp build up is slower then the CPU cooler may need to be reseated or replaced.  Did you use thermal paste?  If you did it could have went bad.  If you didn't it is going to be he|| getting that CPU cooler off.

Second while you are watching the Bios, take a look inside the case and see if the CPU fan (or any fan for that matter) is spinning correctly.  If the fan looks like it is catching, not spinning, or spinning really slowly compared to the other fans, you could have a bad fan or the fan is not getting proper power from the power supply or motherboard depending on how the fan is connected.  So if the fan does not look right, try hooking it up to the power supply directly if it is connected to the motherboard (vice versa if the fan was connected to the power supply) and see if the fan was getting bad power.  That is not usually the case but I want to check and see if there is a bad power lead somewhere.

This should get you started, hope this helps.
Logged

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13067
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2009, 09:07:09 am »
Quote from: NJAntman on July 03, 2009, 10:57:52 pm
What is an EFI?


Short answer EFI is an alternative to having a standard BIOS.  EFI was created by Intel and currently is used by Apple. (EFI = Extensible Firmware Interface)

Long answer
Logged
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Dracho

  • Global Moderator
  • Rear Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 18289
  • Gender: Male
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2009, 05:18:19 pm »
Don't AM2 & AM2+ chips interface directly with the memory?  Could what he's seeing actually be something overheating in the CPU?
Logged
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Javora

  • America for Americans first.
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3002
  • Gender: Male
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2009, 07:06:16 pm »
Quote from: Dracho on July 04, 2009, 05:18:19 pm
Don't AM2 & AM2+ chips interface directly with the memory?  Could what he's seeing actually be something overheating in the CPU?

There are lots of things that could cause the CPU to overheat.  This problem could be anything from a bad CPU to poor air intake/exhaust.  My best guess based on what I've read so far is a bad CPU/cooler or a bad power supply.  Won't know until we start eliminating the possibilities.
Logged

Offline NJAntman

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1565
  • Gender: Male
  • Jusssst short of a 1000 Taldren posts, damn!!
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2009, 11:31:46 pm »
Quote from: Dracho on July 04, 2009, 05:18:19 pm
Don't AM2 & AM2+ chips interface directly with the memory?  Could what he's seeing actually be something overheating in the CPU?

Ack! As if the possibilities weren't daunting enough I hadn't suspected something like that! When MemTest86+ bombed out I figured must be the RAM overheating, no I have to wonder if its the CPU. Running Avira virus scanner, SpyBot Search & Destroy and SuperSpyware in scan mode will almost always cause a shutdown; are those aps CPU intensive or RAM intensive, or both?

I'm using the laptop now as I just watched the CPU temp start at 37C and go to 81C in 10 minutes just sitting in BIOS watching the temp display; it crashed when I left the BIOS to start up XP.

I'm going to go with the following plan. I'll get some thermal paste and pull the CPU and reseat it. If that doesn't lead to a big improvement I'll get new RAM, stuffs cheaper now and I'll need it in time anyway. After that if things haven't improved I'll start messing with getting fans in there.
Logged
G.R.I.P. - Great Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Offline Sirgod

  • Whooot Master Cattle Baron
  • Global Moderator
  • Vice Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 27844
  • Gender: Male
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2009, 06:26:36 am »
LOL, your bad luck is rubbing off on us Antman. I woke up this morning to an awe full racket. Turns out one of my Big 120mm Thermaltake fans went out. I still have 5 more in the case, and adjusted it properly, but it was a shock to say the least.

<sniff> my system doesn't quite seem load enough now.

Stephen
Logged
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Dracho

  • Global Moderator
  • Rear Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 18289
  • Gender: Male
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2009, 04:31:26 pm »
Run it with the side of the case open and you can probably eliminate ventilation.
Logged
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Sirgod

  • Whooot Master Cattle Baron
  • Global Moderator
  • Vice Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 27844
  • Gender: Male
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2009, 04:40:38 pm »
I've thought about that, only problem is, We have some "Critters" we have been fighting this early summer. Once Orkin takes care of them, it will be ok.

Stephen
Logged
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline NJAntman

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1565
  • Gender: Male
  • Jusssst short of a 1000 Taldren posts, damn!!
Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2009, 07:49:41 pm »
Quote from: Sirgod on July 05, 2009, 04:40:38 pm
I've thought about that, only problem is, We have some "Critters" we have been fighting this early summer. Once Orkin takes care of them, it will be ok.

Stephen

I've thought of running with the side open as well but I can't call Orkin to control my critters. Yesterday my critter help me clean the van and somewhere in the blink of an eye managed to stuff the dash power outlets with pennies. I shudder to think what how he could modify an open tower case.

Anybody with CPU experience want to recommend a good thermal paste for reseting the heatsink? Local Radioshack sells one brand only at $12 per tube but there are several computer shops nearby I'm going to try tomorrow.

Sorry about your fan Sirgod, I can't imagine the racket but it reminded me that this whole mess started about a year ago when the small vid card fan went with an annoying warbling. That led to running two SLI  cards and also about when these system temp problems started. I should've been content to just kick the friggin tower when I could.
Logged
G.R.I.P. - Great Rid of Incumbent Politicians
Pages: [1] 2  All
« previous next »