Topic: Wild Weasel - Problems?, Bugged?

[Jimbola]

Good Afternoon Folks!

First, I am a N00bie here at Dynaverse - but with some experience with Star Fleet Battles.

Second, since this is my first posting, please forgive me if this has already been discussed - but I cannot seem to find many posts discussing Weasels (except for WillWeasel ... ).

The Game is Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates; version/patch 2.5.5.2.  Here are the 2 situations I ran into:

1) I'm at speed 4 - and I have launched a WW to decoy 6 drones.  Enemy launches a shuttle.  I expect it is a ScatterPack - so I make sure NOT to void the weasel.  ScatterPack breaks open - so I ASSUME it is tracking the WW since the first 6 drones has not yet reached the Weasel.  First 6 drones hit the Weasel, Second 6 hit ME.  I'm NOT happy, to say the lest!  I was running 6 ECM, so the Defense Shift was showing 3 when the SP drones hit me. 

2) This time I'm at speed 0 - Emergency Decel.  I set my speed to 3 to make SURE I don't void the weasel.  Plasma R - Enveloping is now tracking the Weasel.  Enemy now launches 2 S-Torps & 2 F-Torps.  R-E Torp hits WW.  Other Plasma's hit ME.  Again, NOT happy.

So, am I seeing a bug - or is there something going on that voids the Weasel that I'm not aware of.

Thanks in advance, and looking forward to the discussion!

Jimbola

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Welcome Jimbola,

Weasels are kind of weird in SFC! I was writing a response about how weasels work differently depending on whether you play in single-player, standard multi-player, or on the online Dynaverse, but I figured out that I need to test them more to see. I'll get back to you, though.

For now, it seems like WWs in single-player only work if you launch the weasel AFTER the enemy launches a seeking weapon at you. But in multi-player games, the weasel is more preemptive, so you can launch it and it will effectively spoof plasma and drones even if they are launched after the WW.

[Corbomite]

After a WW is hit it lasts eight explosion pulses. How much time passed between the first attack hitting the WW and the successive attacks? At speed 8-9 it lasts about 7 to 8 seconds after being hit.

I have never seen an AI ship fire a seeking weapon at a ship with an already active WW so I can't comment on what Mace experienced in Single Player.

[Dizzy]

sometimes even going spd 4, a ww will void out and here's a seperate bug, sometimes going spd 4 will setoff mines... grrrr. aint spd 4 supposed to be safe for minefields...

[Villa64]

3.99, for those with a very steady hand on the helm.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

I have never seen an AI ship fire a seeking weapon at a ship with an already active WW so I can't comment on what Mace experienced in Single Player.

I got confused, but after some testing, I think this is what I mean:

In a single player:
1. You launch the weasel.
2. Incoming plasma/drones are spoofed.
3. After the seeking weapons hit the weasel, it stops protecting you, even if you didn't do anything to void it.

In multi-player:
1. You launch a WW.
2. Incoming seeking weapons are spoofed.
3. The weasel keeps working for a while afterwards, unless you spoof it. But after a certain amount of time (maybe 15 seconds?), the weasel stops working anyways. Huh?

About those mines... I swear the maximum safe speed is different depending on single/multi-player as well!

By the way, does firing phasers at an active WW (let's say this is in multi-player) do anything like void the weasel?

[Corbomite]

WW's last 3 turns if not voided or destroyed. You can fire on an active WW with phasers (or any other DF weapon) and if you do six points or more it will begin the explosion period of eight pulses.

As far as the mines and speed 4... it only seems to happen in ships that have a 0.67 move cost. I suspect that there is some fractional movement in the code that is not being dropped and it causes the mines to trigger. I just go speed 3 to be safe.

[Lieutenant_Q]

You can void a WW by hitting it with Phaser Fire.  However, the Weasel remains functional after destruction long enough to make it only useful if they deployed a weasel with a pseudo torp inbound.  Usually the weasel remains active long enough to allow drones or real plasma to still hit it, rather than the ship. 

Also remember that the weasel generates a 2 shift while it's out, making actually hitting it with a Phaser problematic at best.

[Jimbola]

Thanks for all the input Folks!

    Looks like 8 explosion-pulses after the Weasel is destroyed is the answer.  After that point, any seeking weapons will reacquire the original target.  With this timing, I was able to fire a PL-R into a VERY weak rear shield of a facing Fed.  The Fed had launched a Weasel to a Pseudo R-Torp.  I Phasered the Weasel until it started pusling.  Waited 4 pulses, fired the Plasma (which passed the ship toward the weasel); weasel pulsing ended; slapped a tractor on the Fed to prevent ANOTHER weasel; and watched the Plasma reek havoc.
    This may also make my SP-tactics work better; as well as causing me to launch drones 1 at a time at ~4 pulses apart.  But, that's enough for now.  (Now, to see if I can figure out how to play online with my POS box ...   )

Jimbola

[Nemesis]

As far as the mines and speed 4... it only seems to happen in ships that have a 0.67 move cost. I suspect that there is some fractional movement in the code that is not being dropped and it causes the mines to trigger. I just go speed 3 to be safe.

That may well be correct.  If different functions define the movement cost at .67 and others at 2/3 it is possible that you could be be moving at 4.0 by some functions and 4.03 by others thus voiding the WW.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Thanks for all the input Folks!

    Looks like 8 explosion-pulses after the Weasel is destroyed is the answer.  After that point, any seeking weapons will reacquire the original target.  With this timing, I was able to fire a PL-R into a VERY weak rear shield of a facing Fed.  The Fed had launched a Weasel to a Pseudo R-Torp.  I Phasered the Weasel until it started pusling.  Waited 4 pulses, fired the Plasma (which passed the ship toward the weasel); weasel pulsing ended; slapped a tractor on the Fed to prevent ANOTHER weasel; and watched the Plasma reek havoc.
    This may also make my SP-tactics work better; as well as causing me to launch drones 1 at a time at ~4 pulses apart.  But, that's enough for now.  (Now, to see if I can figure out how to play online with my POS box ...   )

Jimbola

AI will not deploy a Weasel unless there's more than a certain number of drones inbound.  I think its related to the number of the tractors available on the AI's ship.  But I've never actually determined the threshold.

[marstone]

Thanks for all the input Folks!

    Looks like 8 explosion-pulses after the Weasel is destroyed is the answer.  After that point, any seeking weapons will reacquire the original target.  With this timing, I was able to fire a PL-R into a VERY weak rear shield of a facing Fed.  The Fed had launched a Weasel to a Pseudo R-Torp.  I Phasered the Weasel until it started pusling.  Waited 4 pulses, fired the Plasma (which passed the ship toward the weasel); weasel pulsing ended; slapped a tractor on the Fed to prevent ANOTHER weasel; and watched the Plasma reek havoc.
    This may also make my SP-tactics work better; as well as causing me to launch drones 1 at a time at ~4 pulses apart.  But, that's enough for now.  (Now, to see if I can figure out how to play online with my POS box ...   )

Jimbola

AI will not deploy a Weasel unless there's more than a certain number of drones inbound.  I think its related to the number of the tractors available on the AI's ship.  But I've never actually determined the threshold.

Also seems the AI will only build one weasel at a time, or at least that is all I have seen.  After the first is destroyed, they build a new one, so there is time between launchings to smash the puny ships.

[Commander Maxillius]

I've deduced that the AI will weasel when there are 40 damage points inbound.  Meaning, when the AI expects to be hit by 40 or more points of damage, regardless of tractor or phaser count, the AI will nail the E-brake and drop that stupid f--king shuttle

Keep in mind that it calculates incoming damage at its own shields, not from where/what you shot.  A plasma R at range 20 won't draw a weasel, but two Fs within range 10 will.

I always make sure to have a tractor ready to negate the weasel completely 

[marstone]

I've deduced that the AI will weasel when there are 40 damage points inbound.  Meaning, when the AI expects to be hit by 40 or more points of damage, regardless of tractor or phaser count, the AI will nail the E-brake and drop that stupid f--king shuttle

Keep in mind that it calculates incoming damage at its own shields, not from where/what you shot.  A plasma R at range 20 won't draw a weasel, but two Fs within range 10 will.

I always make sure to have a tractor ready to negate the weasel completely 

I usually count on the weasel from the AI.  Fire drones from racks, let them draw the weasel, then launch a scatter pack to hit after the wait period is over.

Either that or fire drones and outrun them, then grab with tractor, launch second set of drones so 12 hit at one time.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

It's also funny how the AI will always weasel at an enveloped G-torp, but never at a single normal G-torp. It's like they know somehow (legendary Science officer, anyone?). I thought I read once that in SFB, enveloped torpedoes were always revealed when they were launched, so this could actually make sense.

[Commander Maxillius]

See, now I never paid that close attention.  I never envelope G's either lol

[marstone]

It's also funny how the AI will always weasel at an enveloped G-torp, but never at a single normal G-torp. It's like they know somehow (legendary Science officer, anyone?). I thought I read once that in SFB, enveloped torpedoes were always revealed when they were launched, so this could actually make sense.

In SFB, it isn't that you anounce that a plasma is enveloping, but the enemy always knows the strength of a plasma, so they can figure out it is an enveloped torp.  Effectivly the same thing.

[Age]

I never really noticed this but then agian I don't travel at speed for 4 while launching the WW.The only problem I see doing that is with plasma if it is pseuado or fake stuff being fired at you.How are you suppose to tell but that is why you keep your speed up.

[marstone]

I never really noticed this but then agian I don't travel at speed for 4 while launching the WW.The only problem I see doing that is with plasma if it is pseuado or fake stuff being fired at you.How are you suppose to tell but that is why you keep your speed up.

That is the point of a pseudo torp, you don't know.  Thus you might use your defense against the fake so the real can hit.  It is part of the balance for the long load times.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

I never really noticed this but then agian I don't travel at speed for 4 while launching the WW.The only problem I see doing that is with plasma if it is pseuado or fake stuff being fired at you.How are you suppose to tell but that is why you keep your speed up.

That is the point of a pseudo torp, you don't know.  Thus you might use your defense against the fake so the real can hit.  It is part of the balance for the long load times.

Fakes are great, lots of fun. Probes are pretty nice, but they seem to work better in single player. In multiplayer, I can only get them to say whether a launcher is fully charged or not, otherwise they show everything as completely unloaded. Not so nice when it turns out the plasma was almost charged.