Topic: Why the Vulcans distrusted Earth in Enterprise.

[Nemesis]

First ask yourself what the Vulcans would have done once they detected the warp signature.

1/ Travel towards it.

2/ Scan everything in detail.

3/ Scan the ship in detail.

What would they have found that might have concerned them?

1/ Debris from the Borg sphere.  Debris that was far in advance of their own technology let alone that of Earth.  Remnants of nanotechnology.  Cyborg body parts of advanced nature - some human others perhaps Vulcan.

2/ Debris from the Enterprise.  Both from the dish that was destroyed and from the escape pods detachment.  Also anything that team helping restore the Phoenix might have misplaced and that could have been anything. 

3/ Oddities in the Phoenix repairs, remember Barclay reinforcing that coil with Enterprise tech?  Cochrane just was agreeing with them and it would be unlikely that working from memory they didn't do things better than a first generation prototype should have had.  The Vulcans would have had many "WTF?" moments where the Phoenix showed signs of advanced knowledge.

4/ Scans of Lily and others showing the use of advanced medical tech that had saved their lives.

5/ Either Cochrane and his team kept the "visitors" secret or they told of them.  Either way the Vulcans would be wondering about the advance aliens who had interfered on Earth. 

6/  They might well have detected the quantum torpedoes fired at the Phoenix as well. 

7/ The Enterprise shielded their departure from the Vulcan ship but it might well have still in later scans have found residual materials indicating passage of an extremely advanced ship while they were on Earth.

So from the Vulcan viewpoint Earth is or has been involved with advanced aliens and is concealing it from them.  Would you trust these "humans" who are concealing their contact with aliens who have technology far in advance of your own?

[TAnimaL]

That's a very interesting idea. I have a few nitpicks with some of your assumptions that boil down to "but if the Vulcan scanners weren't that sophisticated, they wouldn't know," but even then, there are quite a few oddities surrounding the flight of the Phoenix (like the fact that most of Cochrane's techs were killed  a day earlier.) Something fishy was definitely going on, and remember, the Vulcans then didn't believe in time travel, so alien intervention would be a logical guess.

At the same time, the Vulcans did know about Earth & humans prior to FC. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't trust any group today with warp drive technology, so Ican imagine the Vulcans felt the same way.

Still, you make a good case for the Vulcans to say, as you put it, "WTF?"

[Lieutenant_Q]

Indeed, you also have at least three bodies (and possibly one more dismembered one) floating in space.  The Vulcans surely would have noticed them.  You could argue that the Advanced medical tech probably was gone from Lily by the time she was returned to Earth.

Enterprise was in orbit when the Science ship landed, I'm sure they got their shields back up by then, but how do you miss a ship that size?

[Nemesis]

The Vulcan scanners might not have been "that good" but there were large chunks as evidenced by the fact that some of them reached the surface with intact bodies to be found during Enterprise.  Also the Vulcan scanners on long range picked up a pair of relatively low power warp signatures of short duration and were able to home in on them.  (One out and one back).  The long range ability can be taken to imply a good short range one as well.

As to the medical effects being over I suspect that even with Crushers level of tech the damage done to Lily (collapsed from radiation poisoning remember) would take more than a couple of days to get totally out of her system.  There would also be damage to the structures that should have shown radiation damage on the Vulcan scanners and if the humans did not include any (but the recent human dead do) this adds even more "WTF" to the Vulcan science party analysis.

The "dish" was supposed to be charged up with (I think it was) enough positrons to destroy the ship.  The radiation signature left over after its destruction should have been if nothing else a large plasma sphere with a radiation shell.  That should have been detectable and if they investigated it would have been asymetrical in a way that indicated a large near by body -  the Enterprise - distorted/blocked its expansion in one direction.

I was always under the impression that the Enterprise kept itself behind either the Earth or the moon while the Vulcans were present.  The Vulcan scanners could not be active while on the planet (and no orbital scanner package left either) or the landing party could not have beamed out after contact was made unless they could block (cloak from) the Vulcan sensors of the time.  Also we only assume that what landed was the ship not a large shuttle (or SFB like PF).

As to the dead techs, surely the Vulcans would have wanted to talk to the builders of the ship and would have wondered where the Phoenix was during the attack.  It would be very revealing that the silo it was in took damage of a nature that should have damaged the Phoenix within.  Even the nature of the attack was beyond Earth (and Vulcan tech) which adds to the "WTF if going on here?"  Where were the missing technicians?  Where is the co-pilot and engineer from the flight?  Questions the Vulcans would ask and the dead are too long dead to be the missing people.

It all adds up to the Vulcans knowing Earth (or at least Cochranes group) had help on their warp flight from advanced aliens and are covering it up.  The Vulcans would neither buy the "we did it all our selves" or "Time travelers from the future attacked us and another group helped repair the damage" stories.  Leaving them secure in the knowledge that Earth cannot be trusted, we lie and badly about very important things.

[Tus-XC]

The radiation from the dish probably wasn't all too detectable or at least some what explainable.  Depending on the orbit of the enterprise, it is entirely possible that the radiation given off from the dish could be absorbed into the van allen belts.  That might distribute and conceal the radiation. 

The other possibility is that said radiation could be seen as the leftovers of nuclear war.  Consider that today that space assets are neccesary for everything we do today -  From atm transactions (gps timing) to secure high level communications (milstar).  Consider also that this earth would probably be more dependent on such systems right up to the start of a nuclear war.  Now normally denial of space assets would be done for small areas (gps jammers) or by destuction of ground facilities.  However, if i wanted to deny a nation (and for that matter all nations) the capability of space based assets (and either a) i didn't depend on then b) felt my assets would survived or c)  was crazy and wanted to deny everyone these assets) I would use nuclear devices. The emp alone from their detonation would cripple most systems but the most survivable.    Even then, the scintilzation from all the ionization and radioactive particulate would be detrimental to even the best communication systems. 

So at least one curosity is somewhat explainable on the surface.

[Villa64]

Or maybe they just thought we were highly illogical paranoid renegade schizos...

..kind of how the world thinks of the US today.

Fortunately for us, we dont need them for warp tech.

[Nemesis]

The radiation from the dish probably wasn't all too detectable or at least some what explainable. 

The dish was (as I recall) described as being loaded with enough positrons to destroy the Enterprise.  That should be quite a "flash" visible at long distances.  The Vulcans might well observe it with sublight sensors as they approached the Earth.  Even if it was behind the Earth from the point of view of the Vulcan crafts approach its radiation signature would be newer than the rest and would be from anti matter not fission or fusion bombs.

Rather than being masked by the Van Allen belts I would expect it to distort them making it more noticiable.

[candle_86]

well not only that but humans are violent and drunks on first impression dont forget.Though the first contact scene at the opening of Enterprises atlernate reality seems more belivable for a people just attacked by aliens, I would think the vulcans where the same bad guys, and do you really thing the Enterprise crew told everyone in bozeman who there where?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

This all can fit in with why the Vulcans kept humans confined to our solar system for what was it? 95 years according to the Enterprise 1st episode?

[Age]

The "dish" was supposed to be charged up with (I think it was) enough positrons to destroy the ship.  The radiation signature left over after its destruction should have been if nothing else a large plasma sphere with a radiation shell.  That should have been detectable and if they investigated it would have been asymetrical in a way that indicated a large near by body -  the Enterprise - distorted/blocked its expansion in one direction.

What I would like to know if the dish was destroyed how did they get back to their own timeline?

[candle_86]

The "dish" was supposed to be charged up with (I think it was) enough positrons to destroy the ship.  The radiation signature left over after its destruction should have been if nothing else a large plasma sphere with a radiation shell.  That should have been detectable and if they investigated it would have been asymetrical in a way that indicated a large near by body -  the Enterprise - distorted/blocked its expansion in one direction.

What I would like to know if the dish was destroyed how did they get back to their own timeline?

the deflector was still functional, this can be seen by the fact they had sheilds still to mask there warp signiature from the vulcans.

[Villa64]

the dish was made of a series of highly networked particles, that could function together even after being blown to smithereens.

[Corbomite]

This all can fit in with why the Vulcans kept humans confined to our solar system for what was it? 95 years according to the Enterprise 1st episode?

We weren't confined to the the solar system, just to warp 2. That meant we couldn't go very far. They held back technology and hindered Archer's dad from developing the warp 5 engine.

[Nemesis]

What I would like to know if the dish was destroyed how did they get back to their own timeline?

A day or two + laForge + replicator tech = new dish.

[Commander Maxillius]

I can sum up all of the nitpicks about why the Vulcans didn't detect anything out of the ordinary apart from an unfamiliar warp signature.

It was a merchant ship and logically the only thing the Vulcans would be scanning for would be warp signatures for navigation purposes.  To actively scan for other things would be a waste of resources.

[Nemesis]

I can sum up all of the nitpicks about why the Vulcans didn't detect anything out of the ordinary apart from an unfamiliar warp signature.

It was a merchant ship and logically the only thing the Vulcans would be scanning for would be warp signatures for navigation purposes.  To actively scan for other things would be a waste of resources.

Survey ship.

Deanna to Cochrane:  They're on a survey mission, they have no interest in Earth, too primitive.

[Nemesis]

The "dish" was supposed to be charged up with (I think it was) enough positrons to destroy the ship.  The radiation signature left over after its destruction should have been if nothing else a large plasma sphere with a radiation shell.  That should have been detectable and if they investigated it would have been asymetrical in a way that indicated a large near by body -  the Enterprise - distorted/blocked its expansion in one direction.

What I would like to know if the dish was destroyed how did they get back to their own timeline?

The dish was charged with anti protons.

The Borg time travel method was achieved by modifying the warp field not by the deflector dish (laForge states it).  The Enterprise uses the moons bulk to shield its warp signature from the Vulcans.

[Commander Maxillius]

I can sum up all of the nitpicks about why the Vulcans didn't detect anything out of the ordinary apart from an unfamiliar warp signature.

It was a merchant ship and logically the only thing the Vulcans would be scanning for would be warp signatures for navigation purposes.  To actively scan for other things would be a waste of resources.

Survey ship.

Deanna to Cochrane:  They're on a survey mission, they have no interest in Earth, too primitive.

i stand corrected.  In that case that mu'st've been one crappy map they were surveying for if all that BS around Earth escaped their attention.

[Tulwar]

First, it's theatre.  It doesn't have to make sense.

The Vulcans were right not to trust humans.  I know a great many humans; I don't trust any of them.  More than that, the Vulcans in Enterprise were heading down a path of facism.  Xenophobia is just one trait of that political philosophy.

As far as the Vulcans detecting of the tiny warp signature created by the Pheonix and missing everything else.  I would think that warp signatures propagate instantly over enormous areas of space.  They would create a small interference with the warp field generated by any ship traveling under warp power.  The signature would not be detected by sensors, but "feel" like a bump in the road.  In an area of space devoid of high technology, even a small disturbence would be curious.  Now, how a time inversion, big enough to swallow the Borg Sphere and the Enterprise, wouldn't rattle deck plates on ships accross the local galactic cluster is totally beyond me.

[Nemesis]

First, it's theatre.  It doesn't have to make sense.

Part of the suspension of disbelief is seeing how it would fit in if it were real.  When it can't be made to fit then the creators really failed.