Topic: The Enterprise alternate timeline.

[Corbomite]

...also only Archer and crew encounted the romulans...

There was an entire war between Earth and the Romulans between Archer's time and TOS. If the Romulans had cloaks, they would have used them in combat and everyone would have known about them, especially Lt. Stiles who had family in that war. The plans that Daniels gave to Archer for the device to detect cloaks would also have been used and would have been standard issue by TOS. Also, the cloak seems to have gotten worse over time as Spock could detect the moving warbird on his motion sensors and Archer needed a special quantum thingy from the future to see ships in his century.

As for the borg, the Hansens where looking for the borg, they stated as much when we saw the backstory, star fleet ordered them to turn back, but the hansens where already looking for them before the encounted them. And the Raven was a Civilian ship yes, but also has the starfleet delta and a starfleet civilian registry for reseach vessels. They where a Civilizan reseach vessel operating with starfleet the hansens where likly the best we had at experts. Also why wern't weapons ready, well for one, no one at the time knew the full extent of the collective, also the borg in Enterprise where using the 22nd centry tech, simply stronger, they adapted it, but this is all the intel starfleet had, and a Galaxy Class, hell a consitition original could have blown that ship up, so Starfleet had no real idea the extent of the threat or there level of technology based on that encounter, remember Enterprise was able to destroy them, so starfleet most likly considered them a minimal threat based on what they had to go on.

I'm afraid this entire statement makes no sense to me.

[Lieutenant_Q]

...also only Archer and crew encounted the romulans...

There was an entire war between Earth and the Romulans between Archer's time and TOS. If the Romulans had cloaks, they would have used them in combat and everyone would have known about them, especially Lt. Stiles who had family in that war. The plans that Daniels gave to Archer for the device to detect cloaks would also have been used and would have been standard issue by TOS. Also, the cloak seems to have gotten worse over time as Spock could detect the moving warbird on his motion sensors and Archer needed a special quantum thingy from the future to see ships in his century.

Its entirely possible that Starfleet developed sensors to penetrate that cloak within a few months of encountering that warbird.  And that during the entire war the Romulans never did manage to develop another cloak to defeat those sensors.  Which would have convinced the Romulans to drop something so power hungry, that could be defeated so easily, for another weapon system.  Only to revisit the idea in peace time and find something they missed.

[Corbomite]

...also only Archer and crew encounted the romulans...

There was an entire war between Earth and the Romulans between Archer's time and TOS. If the Romulans had cloaks, they would have used them in combat and everyone would have known about them, especially Lt. Stiles who had family in that war. The plans that Daniels gave to Archer for the device to detect cloaks would also have been used and would have been standard issue by TOS. Also, the cloak seems to have gotten worse over time as Spock could detect the moving warbird on his motion sensors and Archer needed a special quantum thingy from the future to see ships in his century.

Its entirely possible that Starfleet developed sensors to penetrate that cloak within a few months of encountering that warbird.  And that during the entire war the Romulans never did manage to develop another cloak to defeat those sensors.  Which would have convinced the Romulans to drop something so power hungry, that could be defeated so easily, for another weapon system.  Only to revisit the idea in peace time and find something they missed.

Except Spock said " Invisibility is theoretically possible, the select bending of light, but the power cost is enormous. They may have solved that problem."

If they had solved that "problem" 100 years before that I think a scientist of Spock's caliber would know about it. T'Pol would have recorded the fact with the Vulcan Science Directorate.

[candle_86]

unless its top secret and that romulan cloak was highly experimental, and the failure of the ship and minefield where attributed to a bad cloak. Also it is likly given what we know of romulans that before the earth romulan war a new pratoer usurped the roman senate and didn't know of the cloak or decided to abdon it entirly, meaning in the war it wouldnt be in service either way. Also spock didnt join the Vulcan Science Acadmey and thus would not have had full knowlege of the data T'Pol might have uploaded if she did indeed.

[Corbomite]

OK, I'll try one last time. They had an entire minefield cloaked. Hundreds or thousands of mines. That means its not a secret and not experimental or a prototype. They would need a factory complex to build and ship them, minelayers to drop them and a support system set up to maintain them. Cloaks would have been old news 100 years later whether they were in use or not.

[candle_86]

maybe maybe not, only the NX-01 encountered the cloak, also because spoke never heard of a cloak it is assumed that after the minefield cloaks vanished, and starfleet because they could see through it anyway didn't breif every captain, it was most likly just added into the sensor packets from there one. This would also fit in well with spock being able to pick up a faint blimb on the scanners, the romulans had made massive advancements in the cloak but where still partically decectable by sensors 100 years later, meaning romulans continued to work on them. As for spocks comment because it was so easy to see through the cloak starfleet may have not called it cloaking device and merly a romulan stealth system, because starfleet had no idea it was 31st centruy tech that allowed them to see through it. Also who is to say this isnt all part of the temporal cold war and once the timeline reset the romulands no longer had cloak and the only people to remember this timeline was Archer and crew?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Give up. Enterprise showed how much Rick Berman didn't give a damn about TOS as he blatanlty ripped apart established history or allowed it to be ripped apart. Guess why Enterprise lost half it's audience by the second season. Many Cotto got it going the way it should always have been, for the 4th season but it was too late then.

[candle_86]

i enjoyed it anyway, and its 10000000000000000000000x better than this new movie

[Nemesis]

Well for the suliban ect, it can be argued that tech is because of the temporal cold war as a matter of fact I think daniele states that much, so when the war ended and the timeline reset itself the suliban may not have had cloaks anymore, also only Archer and crew encounted the romulans and there cloak, starfleet likly kept this at the highest levels, spock was only a commander at the time, he wouldn't have full clarence nor would kirk at the time, so it is possible the fleet was not informed of the cloak. Starfleet most likly wanted to capture a cloak because they hadn;t yet accquired one, Archer never stole a cloak from the romulans, and Starfleet intel wanted one.

A problem with the "reset" is that if it happened then much of the Enterprise series is erased. 

Among the erasures are the "sensor enhancements" that were used to reveal the Romulan mines.  Before activating the "cloak detector" the Romulan mines were invisible.  The detector also had to be "tuned" to detect the Romulan MINES but did NOT detect the Romulan ships.

That tech was given to Archer by Daniels explicitly to deal with the Suliban cloak.  No Suliban cloak no cloak detector and the Romulan mine cloak would have been fully effective as the ship cloak was in spite of the detector.

[candle_86]

i understand that, but also if romulans didnt have a cloak in the 2150's as belived then romulan cloaking tech could have been borrowed from the suliban also, if the cloaks are that close they may very well be the same cloak technology, so when the suilibans lost therese so did romulans

[Nemesis]

The quantum beacon revealed Suliban cloaked cell ships but not the Romulan cloaked ships.  There is no reason to assume that the Romulan cloak is derived from the Suliban cloak. 

More likely the Suliban were given the design of the Romulan mine cloak from the historical databases of their future sponsors.  As primitive as possible while still allowing them the required advantages.

There is also the fact that the final episode of Enterprise should have been shortly after the Earth-Romulan war but it is never mentioned.  Since the war was a prelude to Federation it is odd that it is not referred to.

Here is another point the "maruader" used by the Romulans to attack Babylon 1 can hit Warp 5, before the Earth-Romulan war, a war supposedly fought by impulse powered Romulans.  To go from impulse power to a long range (striking deep into Andorian and Tellarite space) warp 5 engine even with a prototype is huge.  It is hard to believe that they were incapable of intermediate warp speeds and fought Earth with impulse only ships. 

Also the Romulan commander in the minefield episode is able by his sensor scans to be aware of the warp capabilities of the NX01 and insists on Archer using them rather than leaving at mere impulse speeds.  Given his (at least) 2 to one ship advantage and the damaged condition of the NX01 it is odd that he made no attempt to capture a functioning warp 5 ship if they didn't have warp ability of their own but knew enough to recognize it. 

As an example of the advances of the marauder it uses holographs to change its appearance and tunable but high powered weapons to simulate Andorian and Tellarite weapons while STILL being able to over power the Andorian warship in seconds.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Well, Warp Power and Warp Speed are technically two different things.  Just because a ship can hit Warp Five, doesn't mean that that power is available for use.  In Enterprise all of the ships systems were tied into the Impulse Engines.  The Warp Drive did almost nothing besides make the ship move.  In essence, the NX is an Impulse ship, just as the Romulans of the time are.

[knightstorm]

I consider the Romulans not having warp in balance of terror to be a mistake that was retconned out.  The problem is that it was an early episode, and the rules of Trek weren't properly fleshed out.  They had determined that impulse was slower than warp, but not how fast impulse was.  There is no way that the Romulans could have crossed interstellar distances without some sort of FTL.

[Nemesis]

I consider the Romulans not having warp in balance of terror to be a mistake that was retconned out.  The problem is that it was an early episode, and the rules of Trek weren't properly fleshed out.  They had determined that impulse was slower than warp, but not how fast impulse was.  There is no way that the Romulans could have crossed interstellar distances without some sort of FTL.

The Warbird seemed to be traveling at about 1/3 the speed of the Enterprise.  Scotty specifically stated that they had simple impulse power not impulse Drive. 

Because of the many times where they use Impulse and Warp Power for other purposes I distinquish between the Power system and the Drive system.  I read the Warbird as having Impulse power but Warp Drive.  The Warp Drive is limited in speed due to the limited power source.