Topic: ‘Star Trek’ is popcorn perfection

[Sirgod]

It didn't erase anything bro, IT is a whole other alternate universe, kinda like the episode Mirror Mirror. The stuff in the original universe is still there though, and still happened.

Stephen

[Skawpya]

saw the movie, and was pleasantly surprised. The changes are explained, and do not in fact erase the old canon, the original universe is still there and reachable via the usual black hole/alien interference/etc.

My main beef with the movie was at the end
*spoiler alert*












My preferred alternate climax. "screw you Nero, you may die if you want but we're saving your crew. Chekov, begin beaming them into the brig!"

[Voidwar]

It didn't erase anything bro, IT is a whole other alternate universe, kinda like the episode Mirror Mirror. The stuff in the original universe is still there though, and still happened.

Stephen

I do not buy that at all.  Its not an alternate universe.

THIS WAS TIME TRAVEL !!

AGED SPOCK MAKES FUTURE ENEMY, that guy goes back in TIME and kills Kirks DAD.

Note the Dad, and Kirk is being delivered in shuttle.  TIME TRAVEL !!

No Alternate universe was implied, this is time travel and a NEW timeline.

When they have messed with timetravel before, they have always striven mightily to repair the timeline.  This time they did not, in script or story, and thus the Timeline in which SPOCK AGED, never happened.

[Sirgod]

LOL, ok man, whatever. But they even said it was an alternate universe in the movie.

Stephen

[Age]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

I have to agree with Nemesis here as literaly they just wouldn't hand it over to him.There is only so much time in a movie unless this was a TV searies.

[AcePylut]

Oh yeah, the ass-kicking, skirt laying, "Win at Any Cost" kirk that we've all come to KNOW and LOVE is no more, he's been replaced by this alternate timeline.  He shot his wad of great-dom in this movie.  he had his moment in the sun where he summoned up the balls to kick some butt. 

Who knows, maybe we'll get to see him next on Time Trek 12:  Ferrying Trash From the Earth to Saturn cuz he didn't get a friendly handshake for that ridiculous "koybayshi maru joke of a scene". 

What a disappoinment. "oh there's 5 ships, meh, fire some photons, yawn" That scene right there lost the movie for me.  For the producers to make such a joke out of a major, in any timeline, event in StarFleet history, well screw whoever has control of the Trek universe. 

And really, what kind of time travelling supercommander of an uber ship gives an order like "fire everything".  Yeah, even the trashcompactor?  Hope you don't need that energy for your, um, real weapons.  Whatever they are.  unless, of course, the weapon is called "Everything".

Oh the Wrath of Kahn?


Sorry guys, TWOK was just a figment of your imagination. 

[AcePylut]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

I have to agree with Nemesis here as literaly they just wouldn't hand it over to him.There is only so much time in a movie unless this was a TV searies.

This movie could have been all TOS Canon and had the Koybashi Maru be the 2nd act, (1st Act being "they all meet each other"), and the 3rd act would be the applying that "no win" scenario in a no-win match, with Pike at the helm and the crew we know as "ride alongs"... like the training mission in TWOK... not a  "Oh here you go greenie fresh outta StarFleet Academy, why don't ya'll just take control of the newest biggest badass ship we've ever built.  After all, we BECAME the Federation by making boneheaded decisions like this... ya know... not letting anyone with experience be in charge of our rocking uber ship"

Gaa, this was such a disappointment in so many ways.

Oh yeah, I like how Spock gave Scott the "equation" for Warp Transportation, nice lead to "in the future" to explain/hint/insidejoke when Scotty gives that guy the formula for transparent aluminum in Star Trek 4.. but oh wait, Star Trek 4 never happened, sorry, time trek and all, it's all been replaced.  No whales needed saving this time.  Time Trek 4 only required them to save a goldfish. 

Can't wait to see Time Trek 4:  The Voyage to the Local Pet Store for some GoldFish. 

That outta be exciting!  Hey, no need for a commie bastage to be stuck on a naval base looking for nuclear wessels.  Nope, just give checkov a phaser to stun some schmuck in an alley and steal his wallet for the 1 dollar he needs to buy a goldfish.

*sigh*

I can't stand what they just did to Star Trek with this craptacular plot device.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

While I can see that the film did live up to its namesake's hype in some respects, I don't have any good things to say about a director who couldn't be bothered to reference the original.

This implies that the young in future will be equally disrespectful of others, being inclined to do things their own way at their own time. Which would lead me to predict that future Trek would be likewise engineered for mass appeal and not the work of art I'd sit down for a couple hours each night to research lore on.

Trek was marketed for mass appeal.  From the get go.  The Network simply miscalculated it's popularity and general appeal toward a cross section of americans.

So they ended it.

[knightstorm]

Want to see how fast someone can gain rank, check out history.  Look at General Custer and his skyrocket to a General out of the academy.

true, shouldn't have happened, but it has and does at times.

The difference is that after the war, he was reduced to his permanent rank of captain.  We remember him as "General Custer," but he only held the rank of Lt. Colonel when he was killed.

[KBF-Crim]

hrm....what about the Federation temporal corps?

You dont think they might have had to deal with this?

[Soreyes]

Ah Hell I can tell you all that your all wromg on placing the blame on time travel and bad acting. The truth is that J'inn went back in time to earth....... Because there was a Bumper crop harvist of Nip in Kanses and he could not miss out on the profits he could make.

[Sirgod]

Ah Hell I can tell you all that your all wromg on placing the blame on time travel and bad acting. The truth is that J'inn went back in time to earth....... Because there was a Bumper crop harvist of Nip in Kanses and he could not miss out on the profits he could make.

Well, he has to support Shoposauris Rex and her habits after all.

Stephen

[Age]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

I have to agree with Nemesis here as literaly they just wouldn't hand it over to him.There is only so much time in a movie unless this was a TV searies.

This movie could have been all TOS Canon and had the Koybashi Maru be the 2nd act, (1st Act being "they all meet each other"), and the 3rd act would be the applying that "no win" scenario in a no-win match, with Pike at the helm and the crew we know as "ride alongs"... like the training mission in TWOK... not a  "Oh here you go greenie fresh outta StarFleet Academy, why don't ya'll just take control of the newest biggest badass ship we've ever built.  After all, we BECAME the Federation by making boneheaded decisions like this... ya know... not letting anyone with experience be in charge of our rocking uber ship"

Gaa, this was such a disappointment in so many ways.

Oh yeah, I like how Spock gave Scott the "equation" for Warp Transportation, nice lead to "in the future" to explain/hint/insidejoke when Scotty gives that guy the formula for transparent aluminum in Star Trek 4.. but oh wait, Star Trek 4 never happened, sorry, time trek and all, it's all been replaced.  No whales needed saving this time.  Time Trek 4 only required them to save a goldfish. 

Can't wait to see Time Trek 4:  The Voyage to the Local Pet Store for some GoldFish. 

That outta be exciting!  Hey, no need for a commie bastage to be stuck on a naval base looking for nuclear wessels.  Nope, just give checkov a phaser to stun some schmuck in an alley and steal his wallet for the 1 dollar he needs to buy a goldfish.

*sigh*

I can't stand what they just did to Star Trek with this craptacular plot device.

Who is to say this is biggest badest ship in StarFleet.There could be BCH,DN and BB.We have never seen all the ships of all the Empires.

[Voidwar]

We do have evidence from Uhura and Spock's dialogue that it was the premier assignment.

something about "favoritism" . . .

[Lepton]

It didn't erase anything bro, IT is a whole other alternate universe, kinda like the episode Mirror Mirror. The stuff in the original universe is still there though, and still happened.

Stephen

I do not buy that at all.  Its not an alternate universe.

THIS WAS TIME TRAVEL !!

AGED SPOCK MAKES FUTURE ENEMY, that guy goes back in TIME and kills Kirks DAD.

Note the Dad, and Kirk is being delivered in shuttle.  TIME TRAVEL !!

No Alternate universe was implied, this is time travel and a NEW timeline.

When they have messed with timetravel before, they have always striven mightily to repair the timeline.  This time they did not, in script or story, and thus the Timeline in which SPOCK AGED, never happened.

I'd refer you to this article on multiverse theories:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

Essentially, a number of interpretations of quantum theory specify that there may be any number of universes.  Specifically of interest is the interpretation that says that the outcome of certain probabilistic events cannot be predicated absolutely, therefore,  instead of these number of superimposed quantum states collapsing into one more probable state, there must exist a set of related realities or universes in which all the different outcomes of that event do indeed happen.

This concept has been popularized in fiction in the manner that it is used in this movie, that events in the lives of individuals can somehow create parallel universes in which instead of me typing this response, I did not type this response.  Clearly, to me this is absurd as these kind of probabilistic outcomes really should be thought of as pertaining to particles and energies at a quantum level not at a Newtonian level.

So, to explain in the parlance of the movie, going back in time created an alternate timeline/parallel universe (here they are the same thing) in which events occurred differently than the original timeline, however that original timeline/universe still exists, just as in quantum theory the observation of some probabilistic quantum state in a sense creates alternate universes or timelines in which all the different possible states exist.

That's the best I can do.  You can figure out the rest for yourself, not that I pretend to understand any of that stuff.

[toasty0]

For further information on this see W. Heisenberg, The Physical Principles of the Quantum Theory (tr. 1949); D. Lindley, Uncertainty (2007).

[CaptStumpy]

Saw it yesterday.

Was it the "best film evah"! No.

Were there things I would have done differently had I written/artdirected/directed. Of course. Even if the biggest Trekky fanboy on Earth had directed/written/art directed the thing you'd have people bitching about how he ruined Trek. Everyone's ideas of what Trek should be are going to differ. No matter what they did there'd be trekkers that would hate it and claim it didn't follow canon, or the ship should have been this or that, or the whatsamagig should have whatever. The minutiae that Trekkers can get riled up about is amazing.

Hell, I don't remember a Trek movie or a show where there wasn't an absurd amount of bitching and gritching about how they screwed up Trek in some way.

Like the new film or not, the franchise was on it's last legs and it's arguable that it even had any. This film was a needed shot in the arm that I found refreshing. Trek started out in TOS as a fun swashbuckling romp and this film lived up to that in a way that recent Treks forgot. Trek started taking itself too seriously. It needed to lighten up. Break in new audiences.

Personally I found this film to be more in the spirit of the original series than any movie or series managed to do since. They needed to freshen it up, and take a new direction, not try to meet the impossible task of meeting the standards of what "true Trek" is to a bunch of people that will happily argue for hours over the placement or color of a deflector dish. Or simply remaking the original series.

I hated the beer brewery of an engine room and can't stand the iMac of a bridge, but you know what? I was still completely entertained. This movie ranked right up with the best from the series and movies and after B&B dragging the franchise into crapdom it's great to see a Trek film get such a spectacular reception. People that never were into Trek are lining up to see it multiple times. Why? Because IT IS FUN.

I never will get why some people act like this film had an affair with their wife or something or the director came up and personally poked them in the eye.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-feature-star-trek/1099561/

[Villa64]

For those who hate the new ST movie, a link to a quality upcoming production.  Clearly, quality scifi.  I can tell because I have seen the trailer.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?cl=13484452

[toasty0]

 

[KOTH-KieranXC, Ret.]

Who is to say this is biggest badest ship in StarFleet.There could be BCH,DN and BB.We have never seen all the ships of all the Empires.

um, it's kinda always been assumed that pretty much at any point in the TOS era the Constitutions were the plum assignments. The only thing bigger would be a Federation-class DN, and from what I've read, those ships basically wait at starbases for wars to break out and don't do much in peacetime.

So yeah, fairly safe to say Enterprise would have been the premiere assignment in the Fleet at that time.