Topic: ‘Star Trek’ is popcorn perfection

[Lepton]

Need I remind everyone that the Enterprise in TWOK was full of cadets ("So much for the little training mission"), that the Enterprise recently refitted was the only ship in range in TMP outfitted with a new crew and untested systems.  The fact that cadets were on these ships is a nod to these other movies. 

People also seem to assume that the ship was populated only with cadets, which is unsubstantiated to say the least, as the comm officer on the Enterprise was a Lieutenant, whom Uhura, a cadet, relieved, and Spock, the first officer, was, well an officer, DUH, a Commander in fact.

Let's also not forget that it's a MOVIE.

There were nods and tropes in this movie that reference Star Trek movies and episodes in a multitudinous ways.  To suggest, that this isn't a Star Trek movie is absurd and to suggest that Abrams and company just don't get it as absurd.

[Green]

Let's also not forget that it's a MOVIE.

What, WHat, WHAT!  It isn't a MOVIE...it is real damn you...you pointed eared devil!!!



Agree completely.  It was a darn good movie, and a good hope for a new set of ST movies to come.

[knightstorm]

Need I remind everyone that the Enterprise in TWOK was full of cadets ("So much for the little training mission"), that the Enterprise recently refitted was the only ship in range in TMP outfitted with a new crew and untested systems.  The fact that cadets were on these ships is a nod to these other movies. 

People also seem to assume that the ship was populated only with cadets, which is unsubstantiated to say the least, as the comm officer on the Enterprise was a Lieutenant, whom Uhura, a cadet, relieved, and Spock, the first officer, was, well an officer, DUH, a Commander in fact.

In Star Trek II, the Enterprise was attached to the academy on a training cruise, so it was carrying a crew of cadets, however officers were in all of the senior positions.  Here, TROST and his rape gang have Pike inexplicably appoints Kirk, a cadet who stowed away on his ship to a senior position.

[Lepton]

Need I remind everyone that the Enterprise in TWOK was full of cadets ("So much for the little training mission"), that the Enterprise recently refitted was the only ship in range in TMP outfitted with a new crew and untested systems.  The fact that cadets were on these ships is a nod to these other movies. 

People also seem to assume that the ship was populated only with cadets, which is unsubstantiated to say the least, as the comm officer on the Enterprise was a Lieutenant, whom Uhura, a cadet, relieved, and Spock, the first officer, was, well an officer, DUH, a Commander in fact.

In Star Trek II, the Enterprise was attached to the academy on a training cruise, so it was carrying a crew of cadets, however officers were in all of the senior positions.  Here, TROST and his rape gang have Pike inexplicably appoints Kirk, a cadet who stowed away on his ship to a senior position.

...

[TalonClaw]

I see some of you are still clinging to Star Trek canon like it was some sort of Bible.  If you say you aren't going to see it because it doesn't follow something that is not really written in stone, you are just denying yourself a good movie. 

[knightstorm]

Part of the appeal of Star Trek is the cannon, and the fact that everything is built upon previous films or episodes.  Yes, the cannon has had some retcons, but it has relatively few for a 45 year history.  Abrams failed to give a good reason for dropping it, and I am not especially pleased with the weak plot line of the film, or anything I have seen in the trailers, or interviews.  I will eventually get a bootleg dvd to silence the individuals who keep shouting that I should see the film before I pan it, however I don't expect that to see my opinion.

[FA Frey XC]

Lepton, handled.

Knightstorm, looks like you didn't get my point when you deleted your post in the other thread.

STOP ANTANGONIZING PEOPLE WE KNOW YOU ARE CLOSED MINDED.

I mean it.

[marstone]

Need I remind everyone that the Enterprise in TWOK was full of cadets ("So much for the little training mission"), that the Enterprise recently refitted was the only ship in range in TMP outfitted with a new crew and untested systems.  The fact that cadets were on these ships is a nod to these other movies. 

People also seem to assume that the ship was populated only with cadets, which is unsubstantiated to say the least, as the comm officer on the Enterprise was a Lieutenant, whom Uhura, a cadet, relieved, and Spock, the first officer, was, well an officer, DUH, a Commander in fact.

In Star Trek II, the Enterprise was attached to the academy on a training cruise, so it was carrying a crew of cadets, however officers were in all of the senior positions.  Here, TROST and his rape gang have Pike inexplicably appoints Kirk, a cadet who stowed away on his ship to a senior position.

might have something to do with Pike knowing Kirks father.   Will have real opinion after I see it tho.

[Nemesis]

might have something to do with Pike knowing Kirks father.   Will have real opinion after I see it tho.

Now imagine that the basic situation was the same but it was a modern U.S. Navy Captain who put a West Point cadet in charge of his ship over seasoned officers on a combat mission.  Would that cadet be handed a commission as captain if he won?  Would the original captain still be an officer or would he have been court martialed? 

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.  Things must be kept plausible in their context. 

Now if the 1st Officer had been told "Listen to this Kirk he is the expert on this situation" that would be different.  Commissioning Kirk and jumping him a stage or two in rank would also be different.

[FPF-DieHard]

might have something to do with Pike knowing Kirks father.   Will have real opinion after I see it tho.

Now imagine that the basic situation was the same but it was a modern U.S. Navy Captain who put a West Point cadet in charge of his ship over seasoned officers on a combat mission.  Would that cadet be handed a commission as captain if he won?  Would the original captain still be an officer or would he have been court martialed? 

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.  Things must be kept plausible in their context. 

Now if the 1st Officer had been told "Listen to this Kirk he is the expert on this situation" that would be different.  Commissioning Kirk and jumping him a stage or two in rank would also be different.

yes, I will concede that there were some ridiculous situations like Kirk getting a command right out of the academy.   Though he and his crew had just saved Earth and avenged Vulcan this still would not have happened.

I don't care.

They got the essence of Trek right, tha characters, the interaction, the magic that was missing for years with B&B stupidity.   I'm DYING to know what happens next with the ship and it's crew.

I'm a huge DC comics reader so this retcon is NOTHING, you should see what they've done with Superman in the last 20 years.

[Age]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

[Green]

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

Separate subject...who did a good job, fair job, bad job compared to the original actor.

Actor - Character - Rating
Pine - Kirk - Fair
Quinto - Spock - Fair (that whole Uhura thing and temper...unless it was a 7th year, then I understand)
Nimoy - Spock - Perfect (kind of like cheating)
Greenwood - Pike - Good (but only have the pilot to go off of...can't really use the one/two beeping as a baseline)
Urban - McCoy - Great
Saldona - Uhura - Bad
Pegg - Scotty - Fair to Good (too comical I think)
Cho - Sulu - Good
Yelchin - Chekov - Good

[Nemesis]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

[Hexx]

might have something to do with Pike knowing Kirks father.   Will have real opinion after I see it tho.

Now imagine that the basic situation was the same but it was a modern U.S. Navy Captain who put a West Point cadet in charge of his ship over seasoned officers on a combat mission.  Would that cadet be handed a commission as captain if he won?  Would the original captain still be an officer or would he have been court martialed? 

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.  Things must be kept plausible in their context. 

Now if the 1st Officer had been told "Listen to this Kirk he is the expert on this situation" that would be different.  Commissioning Kirk and jumping him a stage or two in rank would also be different.

Or imagine a modern US navy Captain handing over command of his ship to a Bajor.. I mean British major just because.
I'm pretty sure (have to wait until the blue rays) that Chekov (ensign iirc) was left in charge of the Enterpise once or twice.

The original series was awesome, but it also has an android unable to handle the Liar's Paradox, has a Romulan ship cross the neutral zone under impulse power (or something equally slow.. can't wait for my Blue Ray's to arrive) Kirk has a computer "enhance" something by the staggering power of one to the 4th power.. yeah the lsit goes on.

Does the new movie have some logic problems? Sure, but it's not like the original series didn't have it's own screwups. Gene seems to have cared more about telling a good story- and stuff gets missed.

I agree the promotion of the cadets was odd, never been military but I'm guessing cadet-> Captain doesn't happen alot.
I *really* think they should have included some of the backstory from the prequel comic (although not all the THG characters-seriously does anything in the Universe happen when these characters aren't around?) And there's a few other small nitpicks, that being said it simply is a great movie, and (imo) a fantastic additon to the series.

[Nemesis]

On the Impulse power one you have to recall that Trek has "Impulse power" and "Impulse drive" as two different things the same for "Warp power" and "Warp drive".  The Romulan ship may well have had "Warp Drive" powered by what the Federation considered "Impulse power".   Some sources seem to view Impulse power as a fusion reactor and warp power as Matter/Antimatter reactor.  Assuming the map was to scale the Warbird was likely traveling at 1/3 the speed of the Enterprise.

A foreign officer can be serving with your troops (Canadian forces members served in Iraq) as part of your forces under some circumstances.  A Bajoran assigned that way to your ship can easily be in the chain of command as an officer (consider in Doctor Strangelove Group Captain Mandrake of the British Empire was serving under the American General Ripper) and could become the commanding officer due to casualties.

[Nemesis]

Question should the Federation need to "activate" ships in Earth orbit without assigned crews in an emergency how many officers/crew would come from:

1/  Starfleet Academy teaching staff.

2/ Starfleet crew on leave.

3/ Starfleet retired/reserve offices on planet. 

I'd think the problem would be turning crew away rather than having to assign cadets to command positions.

[Norsehound]

I don't think all of the Earth fleet was comprised of trainees... just the graduating class was shuttled up to give extra help and fill in the gaps of the crew. Kirk and his class aren't the officers- they're just lower-rankers that were shuttled onboard. The ship's real Medic died, leaving McCoy (maybe the next senior officer?) in charge. Olsen got himself killed and Scotty probably had the qualifications for chief engineer, but was exiled for misplacing Porthos. Uhura showed competency in a time of crisis, and since their enemy was Romulan she was in a better position to assist the command crew than the appointed officer. Spock is Spock, already qualified for senior science officer but needed to be released from his duty at academy. It's likely that the bridge was staffed with experienced officers, just surrounded by cadets or junior officers placed there out of circumstance. Besides, it wasn't said that Sulu and Checkov were cadets. Sulu might have been a shuttle pilot that took helm duty when required (might explain why he didn't think of the 'exterior inertial dampers- shuttles don't have them).

Pike probably had a lot of pull with command- there's nothing to say he wasn't the legendary captain that he wasn't in the prime timeline. Perhaps he threw his weight around to get Kirk pushed to command even if the rest of the board didn't think so. Pike might be the only person (other than old Spock) to think he's what starfleet needs. The next movie might deal with the rest of Starfleet taking issue with "some punk kid" in command of Starfleet's newest ship. They never did brush upon the fact that Kirk was the youngest starfleet Captain of his time... even in the prime timeline. Kirk might have to justify his ability to command over the other lethargic captains who had the tendency to shuffle their feet when there was a call for action.

I like the spirit and the tone of the movie. Almost like being back at the beginning... the sky's the limit. We'll always have the original run... the new movie is too small to eclipse it entirely. But now that we're no longer burdened with strict adherence to canon and treknobabble, creativity can flourish. I want to see more of what this crew and ship can do.

[The_Joker]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

They were no longer cadets.  They were activated and given assignments.  I agree that promoting Kirk was a stretch, but he was the one who figured out what was going on.  I can forgive this. 

[marstone]

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

Separate subject...who did a good job, fair job, bad job compared to the original actor.

Actor - Character - Rating
Pine - Kirk - Fair
Quinto - Spock - Fair (that whole Uhura thing and temper...unless it was a 7th year, then I understand)
Nimoy - Spock - Perfect (kind of like cheating)
Greenwood - Pike - Good (but only have the pilot to go off of...can't really use the one/two beeping as a baseline)
Urban - McCoy - Great
Saldona - Uhura - Bad
Pegg - Scotty - Fair to Good (too comical I think)
Cho - Sulu - Good
Yelchin - Chekov - Good

Want to see how fast someone can gain rank, check out history.  Look at General Custer and his skyrocket to a General out of the academy.

true, shouldn't have happened, but it has and does at times.

[Voidwar]

And there's a few other small nitpicks, that being said it simply is a great movie, and (imo) a fantastic additon to the series.

Its not an "addition" to the series, it is a poor substitute for the series,  because it erased the original SERIES of events, so what is it "adding" to ?