Topic: ‘Star Trek’ is popcorn perfection

[toasty0]

It’s everything you want from a summer movie, a reboot or a TV remake
REVIEW
By Alonso Duralde
Film critic

updated 7:02 a.m. PT, Thurs., May 7, 2009
It was once noted that “Casablanca” was perhaps the one movie to emerge from the studio system that accomplished everything that most studio films of the era tried to do: There’s a love story, intrigue, comedy and even a dash of torn-from-the-headlines current events. Seeing what “Casablanca” does perfectly with such seeming effortlessness throws its lesser contemporaries into sharp relief.

And while “Star Trek” is no “Casablanca,” it sets a new standard in various categories of its own: As a summer blockbuster, it delivers on pyrotechnics, fist-clenching excitement and three-dimensional characters. As a reboot of a popular franchise, it takes us back to square one in a way that feels both familiar and fresh. (As opposed to, say, the muddled “X-Men Origins: Wolverine.”) And as a remake of a TV show, it captures the essence of the original while allowing the big-screen version to expand in new and thrilling directions.

“Star Trek” is easily the summer tentpole movie by which all of 2009’s summer tentpole movies will be measured. And I say this as someone who’s not a fanatic about the original show or about the nerd-friendly work of director J.J. Abrams. (For what it’s worth, the hardcore “Trek” fanatic on one side of me and the person on the other side of me whose only exposure to the “Trek” movies was “the one with the whales” loved it just as much as I did.)

One of the smartest moves that Abrams and writers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman (working from the original Gene Roddenberry blueprint) made was to place this new “Star Trek” both into the saga’s original continuity and outside of it at the same time. (Doing so involves black holes and chronological disparities that make perfect sense during the movie; just don’t ask me to explain them here.) This wormhole-loophole allows the creators to placate old-school Trekkers while simultaneously freeing themselves up to do what they want.

And what they want winds up being exhilarating and intelligent from start to finish. We begin with Romulan madman Nero (Eric Bana) opening fire on the USS Kelvin and taking its captain hostage; assuming command is the first Captain Kirk, who sacrifices his life and his ship so that the Kelvin’s refugees — including his wife, who gives birth to young James Tiberius Kirk during her escape — may live.

Jump forward to troubled adolescent James (Chris Pine), who decides to attend Starfleet Academy after flirting with alien-languages major Uhura (Zoe Saldana) and getting an affectionate talking-to by Captain Christopher Pike (Bruce Greenwood), who studied the Kelvin incident and thinks the younger Kirk could do his father proud.

Meanwhile, on Vulcan, Spock (Zachary Quinto) turns down an opportunity to join the Vulcan Science Council when he realizes they will always judge him for his half-human heritage, choosing instead to join Starfleet. He and Kirk square off at first, but…

I’m shutting up about the plot now, because “Star Trek” (again, unlike “Wolverine”) is loaded with surprises even though the whole movie is about getting Kirk, Spock, Uhura, Bones (Karl Urban), Sulu (John Cho), Chekov (Anton Yelchin), Scotty (Simon Pegg) and the whole gang together again for the first time.

While “Star Trek” certainly represents a triumph for the franchise — these characters are rounded-out and complicated and fully-formed rather than just being charmingly wooden — it’s also a flat-out satisfying movie, even if you come to it with no “Trek” baggage. Whether it’s a breathtaking sequence involving parachutes and a sword-fighting Sulu or outer-space battles that accentuate the terrifying and silent void of the universe, the film balances amazing action with human interactions that are similarly engrossing.

When Pike goads Kirk with the line, “Your father was captain of a starship for 12 minutes. He saved 800 lives, including yours. I dare you to do better,” I could feel the hairs on my neck standing up in a way usually reserved for well-written, powerful dramas and not mass-market genre movies.

This new “Star Trek” made me unpack my adjectives: It’s exciting, moving, hilarious, action-packed, sexy (a romance pops up between two very unexpected characters) and suspenseful — in short, exactly what big, fun summer popcorn movies are supposed to be and yet so rarely are. I’ve never glued on pointy ears and attended a “Star Trek” convention in my life, but this is a “Trek” I could get geeky about.


© 2009 msnbc.com.  Reprints
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30586786/

[KBF-Crim]

Ok...now I know I'm going to hate it....a critic likes it...

[knightstorm]

Lets see, a positive review from someone who doesn't like Star Trek, about a film directed and produced by someone who doesn't like Star Trek.

[toasty0]

Lets see, a positive review from someone who doesn't like Star Trek, about a film directed and produced by someone who doesn't like Star Trek.

What more could you ask for?

[knightstorm]

Lets see, a positive review from someone who doesn't like Star Trek, about a film directed and produced by someone who doesn't like Star Trek.

What more could you ask for?

A film that doesn't say screw you to us long time fans.

[toasty0]

Lets see, a positive review from someone who doesn't like Star Trek, about a film directed and produced by someone who doesn't like Star Trek.

What more could you ask for?

A film that doesn't say screw you to us long time fans.

Face it, we're a dying breed and it would be extremely stupid to pander to us.

[knightstorm]

Face it, we're a dying breed and it would be extremely stupid to pander to us.

Look at the even numbered Star Treks before Nemesis.  Its very possible to produce a film that can still appeal to a broader audience, that doesn't give us the finger.  TROST didn't even want to try.  Add to that the fact that he and his lackeys initially lied to us and initially said it wouldn't be a reboot, I'm more inclined to not only to not see it in theaters, but to  possibly see it on a bootleg dvd so I can screw him over as much as possible.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

I was around to watch TOS first run. I just saw the movie and give it a 9 out of 10. Can't imagine them doing much better than this, outside of the Enterprise which looks ok from some angles but still bothers me some.

[Lepton]

I've seen it.  It is good, not great but good.

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

Lets see, a positive review from someone who doesn't like Star Trek, about a film directed and produced by someone who doesn't like Star Trek.

What more could you ask for?

A film that doesn't say screw you to us long time fans.

Face it, we're a dying breed and it would be extremely stupid to pander to us.

I dont know how old you are, toast, but Im not going to see a film that takes a big ole steaming crap on one of my favorite shows. Thats the very reason I didnt watch BSG-The Revenge of Starbuck's Vagina. Its an insult to the real fans. "Duhhhh, I bet we can get some half-wit teenagers to watch Star Trek by sticking in more explosions and some skin".

[toasty0]

Face it, we're a dying breed and it would be extremely stupid to pander to us.

Look at the even numbered Star Treks before Nemesis.  Its very possible to produce a film that can still appeal to a broader audience, that doesn't give us the finger.  TROST didn't even want to try.  Add to that the fact that he and his lackeys initially lied to us and initially said it wouldn't be a reboot, I'm more inclined to not only to not see it in theaters, but to  possibly see it on a bootleg dvd so I can screw him over as much as possible.

I think the Onion paradied perfectly your feeling. You should watch it.

[toasty0]

Lets see, a positive review from someone who doesn't like Star Trek, about a film directed and produced by someone who doesn't like Star Trek.

What more could you ask for?

A film that doesn't say screw you to us long time fans.

Face it, we're a dying breed and it would be extremely stupid to pander to us.

I dont know how old you are, toast, but Im not going to see a film that takes a big ole steaming crap on one of my favorite shows. Thats the very reason I didnt watch BSG-The Revenge of Starbuck's Vagina. Its an insult to the real fans. "Duhhhh, I bet we can get some half-wit teenagers to watch Star Trek by sticking in more explosions and some skin".

You've seen it? Or have you like so few others, formed a hard opinion on something you have niether seen, heard, or experiened.

[GE-Raven]

saw it last night... it was excellent.  Sure it "plays" with the time line, but oddly enough the old characters shine through the new treatment.  The "impersonations" are pretty much spot on... great acting and writing all around.

GE-Raven

[knightstorm]

I think the Onion paradied perfectly your feeling. You should watch it.

Can't really watch the onion vid on my connection, but are you trying to say that The Wrath of Kahn wasn't a great film, or the Voyage Home, or The Undiscovered Country, or First contract for that matter?

[marstone]

I think the Onion paradied perfectly your feeling. You should watch it.

Can't really watch the onion vid on my connection, but are you trying to say that The Wrath of Kahn wasn't a great film, or the Voyage Home, or The Undiscovered Country, or First contract for that matter?

he may not say it, I will.  They were alright movies, but not great IMHO, your milage may very. (can't comment on Undiscovered Country, didn't go to, or rent that one).

[knightstorm]

I think the Onion paradied perfectly your feeling. You should watch it.

Can't really watch the onion vid on my connection, but are you trying to say that The Wrath of Kahn wasn't a great film, or the Voyage Home, or The Undiscovered Country, or First contract for that matter?

he may not say it, I will.  They were alright movies, but not great IMHO, your milage may very. (can't comment on Undiscovered Country, didn't go to, or rent that one).

Then what do you consider great.  I think that The Wrath of Kahn was one of the greatest sci-fi filims ever made.

[marstone]

I think the Onion paradied perfectly your feeling. You should watch it.

Can't really watch the onion vid on my connection, but are you trying to say that The Wrath of Kahn wasn't a great film, or the Voyage Home, or The Undiscovered Country, or First contract for that matter?

he may not say it, I will.  They were alright movies, but not great IMHO, your milage may very. (can't comment on Undiscovered Country, didn't go to, or rent that one).

Then what do you consider great.  I think that The Wrath of Kahn was one of the greatest sci-fi filims ever made.

sad to say, It has been so long since I have walked out of a movie in awe I really can't remember what I would say is a great movie.  SciFi is one of the hardest ones to make a great movie about.  Wrath of Khan was good (I think when Kirk took the Enterprise "up" he should have tipped it forward also so he had a nice shot down on the top of Khans saucer.

StarWars and StarTrek are both in the top on my list of movie series (two sides of a similar coin).  I really liked Serenity (sic), but I have a hard time saying any SciFi is a Great movie, but I enjoy the heck out of them.

[knightstorm]

Another important thing to note, is that When Harve Bennett, a man who had no experience with Star Trek whatsoever was signed as the producer, he took the time to watch the original 79, and familiarize himself with the series.  TROST couldn't have been bothered.

[toasty0]

I was wondering; does anyone in this thread dress up in spandex and go to conventions?

[Villa64]

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

[knightstorm]

I was wondering; does anyone in this thread dress up in spandex and go to conventions?

When I was in high school and wanted to win free autographs in the costume contest.  Although I always drew the line at paying to listen to Leonard Nimoy read his poetry. (no joke this was actually an option at one convention).

[knightstorm]

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

And a double digit IQ is necessary to enjoy it.

[toasty0]

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

And a double digit IQ is necessary to enjoy it.

Better'n the single digit IQ it takes to pass judgement on something someone has neither seen nor heard. I paste that one right up there with "if men were meant to travel in space he wouldn't need a space suit."

[knightstorm]

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

And a double digit IQ is necessary to enjoy it.

Better'n the single digit IQ it takes to pass judgement on something someone has neither seen nor heard. I paste that one right up there with "if men were meant to travel in space he wouldn't need a space suit."

I've said it before, but you people keep making me repeat myself.  If there was anything in this film that indicated it was not what I think it is, Abrams would have leaked it.  The fact that he didn't is proof that it doesn't exist. Also, I just read the plot on wikipedia.  If its really as idiotic as it sounds, I'm definitely better off saving $15, and not seeing it in theaters.

[Sirgod]

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

And a double digit IQ is necessary to enjoy it.

Better'n the single digit IQ it takes to pass judgement on something someone has neither seen nor heard. I paste that one right up there with "if men were meant to travel in space he wouldn't need a space suit."

I've said it before, but you people keep making me repeat myself.  If there was anything in this film that indicated it was not what I think it is, Abrams would have leaked it.  The fact that he didn't is proof that it doesn't exist. Also, I just read the plot on wikipedia.  If its really as idiotic as it sounds, I'm definitely better off saving $15, and not seeing it in theaters.

More power to you brother. Just please, all I ask is you let those who want to see it, enjoy it, and post here with out this turning into a flame war. This goes for everyone. We have had way to many in the past guys, is all I'm saying.

Stephen

[knightstorm]

They're the ones who started it.

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

Its not my fault that they can't defend their point of view without taking a jab at me.

[Ravok]

They're the ones who started it.

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

Its not my fault that they can't defend their point of view without taking a jab at me.

 Yea but the thing is, you hate it sight unseen. And seem to belittle anybody that disagrees with your concept,of what Trek should be.

 Personally I find it exceptionally close minded, to judge,and denigrate something sight unseen.
 And then bash people for not sharing your views.

 As Spock would put it its NOT Logical.

 I have heard the same complaining, are cries of blasphemy,since the first Movies came out. And the same arguments.

 But still  Star Trek lives on, and evolves. Its the way Gene intended. To open our minds to new possibility's.
 Not to cling to the past, or live there.

 Some people can't accept change. They should have the wisdom to realise this is a limitation, and while it suits them. Not try to force it on everybody else.

 We know you hate, and can't tolerate, the concept they used for this movie. You have made that abundantly clear.

 But let people have their own opinion and enjoy it.

 The world is for the young anyway. We have to turn it over to them,and use their own imagination and vision.
 Thats how we all evolve as a culture, and species.

 If we didn't there would be NO Star Trek at all.

[knightstorm]

They're the ones who started it.

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

Its not my fault that they can't defend their point of view without taking a jab at me.

 Yea but the thing is, you hate it sight unseen. And seem to belittle anybody that disagrees with your concept,of what Trek should be.

 Personally I find it exceptionally close minded, to judge,and denigrate something sight unseen.
 And then bash people for not sharing your views.

 As Spock would put it its NOT Logical.

 I have heard the same complaining, are cries of blasphemy,since the first Movies came out. And the same arguments.

 But still  Star Trek lives on, and evolves. Its the way Gene intended. To open our minds to new possibility's.
 Not to cling to the past, or live there.

 Some people can't accept change. They should have the wisdom to realise this is a limitation, and while it suits them. Not try to force it on everybody else.

 We know you hate, and can't tolerate, the concept they used for this movie. You have made that abundantly clear.

 But let people have their own opinion and enjoy it.

 The world is for the young anyway. We have to turn it over to them,and use their own imagination and vision.
 Thats how we all evolve as a culture, and species.

 If we didn't there would be NO Star Trek at all.

I don't belittle them.  I just reply in kind when they derisively dismiss my point of view by saying things such as "oh he's just a cannonite", or "he's cannon crazy".  I haven't heard you complain about any of the obnoxious things they've said about me.  I'm sorry if my refusal to be kicked around offends you.  Some people argue that I should not sink to their level.  I argue that I am already above their level because I wasn't the one to throw the first punch.  As for Gene's intent on open minds, when he died, he was about to commence legal action to have scenes that he objected to removed from Star Trek VI.  As for your opinion on my "hate" what would you prefer I do?  Stay quiet and watch Star Trek die?  If people had spoken out more when the first hints of what Abrams was doing became known, he might have shelved  his ideas.  I know I may be fighting a losing battle, but I have no intention of going gently into that good night.  As for the sight unseen thing, I DON'T NEED TO SEE THE FILM TO RECOGNIZE THAT ABRAMS HAS RELEASED NOTHING REASSURING IN ANY OF HIS TRAILERS OR INTERVIEWS.  Also, a synopsis of the plot is up on wikipedia now if you care to read it.

[IndyShark]

I saw it last night. I liked it. There were parts I didn't like or wish they had done better, but it was a good, not great movie. I'll watch it again on blue ray. It's also a sure thing there will be sequel. That's the best news of all.

[Calexandre]

While I can see that the film did live up to its namesake's hype in some respects, I don't have any good things to say about a director who couldn't be bothered to reference the original.

This implies that the young in future will be equally disrespectful of others, being inclined to do things their own way at their own time. Which would lead me to predict that future Trek would be likewise engineered for mass appeal and not the work of art I'd sit down for a couple hours each night to research lore on.

[Sirgod]

They're the ones who started it.

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

Its not my fault that they can't defend their point of view without taking a jab at me.

That is why I said this goes for everyone. Remember the rules, there is a report button there that anyone is free to use.

also Two wrongs don't make a right, I think it's in the rules there somewhere.

Stephen

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

To all those who are complaining about us not liking it having never seen it. Well, I dont have to get shot in the nads to know that I wouldnt enjoy it. 

[Sirgod]

To all those who are complaining about us not liking it having never seen it. Well, I dont have to get shot in the nads to know that I wouldnt enjoy it. 

Eh , same could be said for using a defibrillator.

I heard when Scotty is first seen, you can see a tribble next to him.

Stephen

[toasty0]

To all those who are complaining about us not liking it having never seen it. Well, I dont have to get shot in the nads to know that I wouldnt enjoy it. 

That's because you can extrapolate the experience of others 'getting shot in the nads'. Making a judgment about something that has not even occured yet strikes me as just too old-lady like.

[EmeraldEdge]

Well, I personally haven't seen anyone get shot in the nads before.  I have seen people get hit in the nads before, and while I haven't seen anyone get shot before (in real life) I imagine from the fictional accounts of it, that the two combined wouldn't be good.

Similarly, I have the experience of other attempts to remake a classic (most of which fail in my mind), and have seen clips, trailers, stills, of this material, which all allow me to extrapolate the experience in much the same way you would make that extrapolation about getting shot in the nads.  Who knows, it might actually feel good.  Afterall, it's not your dad's tired old shot to the groin.  Maybe you just need to stop being nitpicky about what "pleasure" is and adjust to what you're given.  Some people could be into that.

[Green]

I was around to watch TOS first run. I just saw the movie and give it a 9 out of 10.

Agreed,  9 out of 10.

Best part of the movie, imo, Bones.  Urban did a great job.

NAME: Karl Urban
CHARACTER: Dr. Leonard "Bones" McCoy
WHERE YOU'VE SEEN HIM BEFORE: In The Lord of the Rings trilogy; The Bourne Supremacy.
NEXT UP: The crime drama Black Water Transit opposite Laurence Fishburne.

The New Zealand-born actor, 36, playing the ship's irascible doctor, proclaims himself a genuine Trekkie. "I am definitely the resident geek," says Urban, who toted a childhood Trek toy along on the cast's international press tour. "I watched it as a boy, religiously, every Saturday morning." Two days after being cast, he was at a Santa Monica stoplight when "a gentleman in a Star Trek outfit walked across the road. And I think it was just on a random day! It struck me at that point, the effect of this wonderful series has had in our popular culture."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20277342,00.html

[KOTH-KieranXC, Ret.]

They're the ones who started it.

Maybe we should say that a life is required to go and see it, and leave it at that.

Its not my fault that they can't defend their point of view without taking a jab at me.

 Yea but the thing is, you hate it sight unseen. And seem to belittle anybody that disagrees with your concept,of what Trek should be.

 Personally I find it exceptionally close minded, to judge,and denigrate something sight unseen.
 And then bash people for not sharing your views.

 As Spock would put it its NOT Logical.

 I have heard the same complaining, are cries of blasphemy,since the first Movies came out. And the same arguments.

 But still  Star Trek lives on, and evolves. Its the way Gene intended. To open our minds to new possibility's.
 Not to cling to the past, or live there.

 Some people can't accept change. They should have the wisdom to realise this is a limitation, and while it suits them. Not try to force it on everybody else.

 We know you hate, and can't tolerate, the concept they used for this movie. You have made that abundantly clear.

 But let people have their own opinion and enjoy it.

 The world is for the young anyway. We have to turn it over to them,and use their own imagination and vision.
 Thats how we all evolve as a culture, and species.

 If we didn't there would be NO Star Trek at all.

I don't belittle them.  I just reply in kind when they derisively dismiss my point of view by saying things such as "oh he's just a cannonite", or "he's cannon crazy".  I haven't heard you complain about any of the obnoxious things they've said about me.  I'm sorry if my refusal to be kicked around offends you.  Some people argue that I should not sink to their level.  I argue that I am already above their level because I wasn't the one to throw the first punch.  As for Gene's intent on open minds, when he died, he was about to commence legal action to have scenes that he objected to removed from Star Trek VI.  As for your opinion on my "hate" what would you prefer I do?  Stay quiet and watch Star Trek die?  If people had spoken out more when the first hints of what Abrams was doing became known, he might have shelved  his ideas.  I know I may be fighting a losing battle, but I have no intention of going gently into that good night.  As for the sight unseen thing, I DON'T NEED TO SEE THE FILM TO RECOGNIZE THAT ABRAMS HAS RELEASED NOTHING REASSURING IN ANY OF HIS TRAILERS OR INTERVIEWS.  Also, a synopsis of the plot is up on wikipedia now if you care to read it.

Well, frankly, if you haven't actually seen it(and are judging it only from several 30 sec. ads and 2 min. trailers) then I don't see how you are qualified to judge. I don't listen to what movie critics say, either... but at least they go out and see the movie in question before they start tearing it apart in a fit of pique. I haven't seen it yet, either... which is why I plan to keep my mouth firmly shut until I do, so I can avoid doing things like making myself look like a t00l on the internet. At least then if I don't like it I can actually post a reasoned, logical list of reasons why instead of commencing on a knee-jerk rant that only succeeds in making me look bad.

Let it go and quit trying to ruin it for the people that actually enjoyed it/are hoping to enjoy it. You've made your point.

[Villa64]

Who are you and what have you done with Kieran?

[knightstorm]

Well, frankly, if you haven't actually seen it(and are judging it only from several 30 sec. ads and 2 min. trailers) then I don't see how you are qualified to judge. I don't listen to what movie critics say, either... but at least they go out and see the movie in question before they start tearing it apart in a fit of pique. I haven't seen it yet, either... which is why I plan to keep my mouth firmly shut until I do, so I can avoid doing things like making myself look like a t00l on the internet. At least then if I don't like it I can actually post a reasoned, logical list of reasons why instead of commencing on a knee-jerk rant that only succeeds in making me look bad.

Let it go and quit trying to ruin it for the people that actually enjoyed it/are hoping to enjoy it. You've made your point.

Well, as I've said before, the absence of anything positive in the trailers and pre-release interviews is proof that it doesn't exist.  As for why I won't see it the facts are quite simple.  If this film is successful, Star Trek will be dead.  All of the materials, interviews, and synopsis of the film which I have read make clear to me that this is not Star Trek.  Anyone who tells me I should see this film before posting is saying that I should help kill Star Trek.  I can't do that in good conscience.

[Sirgod]

To be fair, I can't blame Knightstorm for standing up for what he believes. I really respect that in a person, However, and I don't mean to cause an argument here, it is speculation based on one persons opinion.

The way I see it, is if you like the movie good, if you don't cool, If you want to see it , Bon Voyage, If not, stay at home, and watch CSI or something. It's not gonna be a make it or break thing here for me.

In my opinion, The same argument could be made for TNG and the shows that followed. Heck until they brought in the Borg, I didn't care for TNG at all. Seeing guys running around in skirts, The Enterprise-D reminded me of a hood ornament off some fat cats car, etc. etc.

Eventualy It did grow on me, and I learned to enjoy it, but it took a long time. One saving grace, was we still had the TOS crew making movies then also.

One ething I am wondering is if these youngens can pull off the classical overtones of the old movies ie. Shakespeare, Classic literature, etc. etc.

Stephen

[The_Joker]

Well, the funny thing is, J.J. obviously did do his homework.  I've been a fan of Star Trek since practically since I was born.  I've been to the theater for opening weekend since STIII.  This is a good movie.  Some of the actors nailed their roles, some could've been better. 

I'm trying to avoid spoilers here, so lets just say that the script definately states that their is a rich history here that can be explored before this movie.

[FPF-DieHard]

Get your heads out of your asses, this moving is f*cking great!

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

To all those who are complaining about us not liking it having never seen it. Well, I dont have to get shot in the nads to know that I wouldnt enjoy it. 

That's because you can extrapolate the experience of others 'getting shot in the nads'. Making a judgment about something that has not even occured yet strikes me as just too old-lady like.

Having actually been shot, and kicked in the nads, I can "extrapolate" the way it would feel. Since I havent seen the movie (just the trailers and the actors babbling about the movie), let me surmise...

Evill, bald Romulan goes back in time to kill Spock. Cadet Kirk gets some nookie, has at least two fight scenes, gets in a few one-liners, takes command of Enterprise and saves the day.

[The_Joker]

To all those who are complaining about us not liking it having never seen it. Well, I dont have to get shot in the nads to know that I wouldnt enjoy it. 

That's because you can extrapolate the experience of others 'getting shot in the nads'. Making a judgment about something that has not even occured yet strikes me as just too old-lady like.

Having actually been shot, and kicked in the nads, I can "extrapolate" the way it would feel. Since I havent seen the movie (just the trailers and the actors babbling about the movie), let me surmise...

Evill, bald Romulan goes back in time to kill Spock. Cadet Kirk gets some nookie, has at least two fight scenes, gets in a few one-liners, takes command of Enterprise and saves the day.

Actually, nope.  Evil Romulan doesn't go back in time to kill Spock.  I'm not going to get into an argument about your opinion on the movie, but think about the fact that you just got the most critical part of the plot incorrect.  Then wonder what else you might have incorrect....

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

To all those who are complaining about us not liking it having never seen it. Well, I dont have to get shot in the nads to know that I wouldnt enjoy it. 

That's because you can extrapolate the experience of others 'getting shot in the nads'. Making a judgment about something that has not even occured yet strikes me as just too old-lady like.

Having actually been shot, and kicked in the nads, I can "extrapolate" the way it would feel. Since I havent seen the movie (just the trailers and the actors babbling about the movie), let me surmise...

Evill, bald Romulan goes back in time to kill Spock. Cadet Kirk gets some nookie, has at least two fight scenes, gets in a few one-liners, takes command of Enterprise and saves the day.

Actually, nope.  Evil Romulan doesn't go back in time to kill Spock.  I'm not going to get into an argument about your opinion on the movie, but think about the fact that you just got the most critical part of the plot incorrect.  Then wonder what else you might have incorrect....

Still doesnt change the fact that its just another time travel Trek movie. Cant they get writers with some immagination? Several dozen time travel eps in five Trek series and two time travel movies. Now a third? Aliens go back in time and assimilate, change history of, or blow up Earth or another planet. Enterprise/Defiant/Voyager/NX-01 crew travels back in time to stop aliens. Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer foil plot of aliens that they are unable to accomplish their dastardly deeds...which means it never happened.

So, to surmise, time travel Trek is about stopping something that never happened. 

[FPF-DieHard]

To all those who are complaining about us not liking it having never seen it. Well, I dont have to get shot in the nads to know that I wouldnt enjoy it. 

That's because you can extrapolate the experience of others 'getting shot in the nads'. Making a judgment about something that has not even occured yet strikes me as just too old-lady like.

Having actually been shot, and kicked in the nads, I can "extrapolate" the way it would feel. Since I havent seen the movie (just the trailers and the actors babbling about the movie), let me surmise...

Evill, bald Romulan goes back in time to kill Spock. Cadet Kirk gets some nookie, has at least two fight scenes, gets in a few one-liners, takes command of Enterprise and saves the day.

Actually, nope.  Evil Romulan doesn't go back in time to kill Spock.  I'm not going to get into an argument about your opinion on the movie, but think about the fact that you just got the most critical part of the plot incorrect.  Then wonder what else you might have incorrect....

Still doesnt change the fact that its just another time travel Trek movie. Cant they get writers with some immagination? Several dozen time travel eps in five Trek series and two time travel movies. Now a third? Aliens go back in time and assimilate, change history of, or blow up Earth or another planet. Enterprise/Defiant/Voyager/NX-01 crew travels back in time to stop aliens. Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer foil plot of aliens that they are unable to accomplish their dastardly deeds...which means it never happened.

So, to surmise, time travel Trek is about stopping something that never happened. 

You could not be more wrong, the movie was amazing.

[Storvick_XC]

Everyone keeps talking about time travel. Yes there is time travel in the movie but Abrams and Nemoy himself has stated that the events with the Kelvin caused the timeline to switch to an alternate timeline so the TOS as we know it still exsits and this is a new alternate timeline (universe) of what could have happened to the TOS crew.

[Age]

Get your heads out of your asses, this moving is f*cking great!

I can't believe you said that.It did have its stellar moments but I must say I am purist.I will say the special effects were great as well as the acting.

It did look similar to Star Trek Nemesis only taking place in the 23C.That was tribble beside Scotty never would of thought.

[Sirgod]

Exactly Age, I am satisfied with the explanation that is given in the movie.

Still like the original better though, but this was pretty darn good.

Stephen

[FPF-DieHard]

Get your heads out of your asses, this moving is f*cking great!

I can't believe you said that.It did have its stellar moments but I must say I am purist.I will say the special effects were great as well as the acting.

It did look similar to Star Trek Nemesis only taking place in the 23C.That was tribble beside Scotty never would of thought.

What Trek movie was better than this besides Wrath of Khan?

I'm an SFB purist, not a Trek purist.   Trek has so many contradictions and retcons that it's "cannon" just can't be taken seriously.

[Voidwar]

IF you are going to erase the whole trek universe and all the kool that made it up, why bother to call the movie star trek ?

This should have been called random shallow space movie, and left the history of Trek alone.

If you don't stick to canon, you got no business usin the franchise name.

This script sucked balls !

I will give the actors credit for a good effort, and the SFX were satisfying, but the script was GARBAGE !!

Think where they have left this verse . . .

Pike makes a stowaway the First Officer , on a whim ?  VERY VERY THIN.

and now, Kirk is a last minute appointee outsider, instead of the Starfleet B.M.O.C. he actually was.

Scotty was runnin a junkyard ?  Sorry, simply incorrect.

Montgomery Scott was born in Scotland, on Earth in 2222. (TNG: "Relics") He spent part of his life in Aberdeen, once referring to himself as an "old Aberdeen pub-crawler". (TOS: "Wolf in the Fold") He joined Starfleet and began his engineering career in 2241. During his 52-year career in Starfleet, he served on a total of eleven ships, including various freighters, cruisers and starships. (TNG: "Relics")

He also briefly served as an engineering adviser on the freight line between the Deneva colony and the outlying asteroid belts. (TOS: "Operation -- Annihilate!")

He is never going to be the Scotty they need, because in the new timeline, the dude was runnin Sanford and Sons Space Junk.  And How Ham Handed was the insertion of his signiture line ?  Go thru the motions , check the box , ho hum.

You know what this means ?  That Romulan Commander WILL return home with proof of the earth men's weakness.

It means Khan and a shuttle full of supermen are still out there.

It means all vulcans are doomed anyway as soon as they have thier next period.

The Kirk Spock Fight ?  Never happens cuz theres no Vulcan now.

Think of all the hurdles that Kirk made it thru, and all the luck that required, and realize, all those obstacles are now still out there, and we have a vastly LESS competent Kirk, since he was an outsider in this timeline, to deal with them.

This script was a terrible and STUPID idea.  If they wanted Tabula Rasa, they should have started their own damn universe instead of trying to erase one.

[Sirgod]

Ahh, but this is an alternate reality, not that the other was erased. It is still there. Both realities are in existence side by side as it where.

Stephen

[Voidwar]

Yawn.

Why pay any attention to the rebootaverse, when its just going to reboot again then ?

Why bother to follow these stories ?  Isn't the next "reboot" imminent and waiting to wash their relevance away ?

Further, as I said, with the obstacles we already KNOW are out there, how hard do you have to suspend disbelief to watch some less professional newbie luck out the second time thru ?

[Sirgod]

With me personally, not very hard, but I'm just an old hick anyways. The answer is really simple though, Don't watch it, if you don't like it. If it gets rebooted 100 times, just watch what you like. I do that at home all the time anyways, with SOOO Many shows on that god damn idiot box.

Stephen

[Voidwar]

The answer is really simple though, Don't watch it, if you don't like it.

Not really an option for me , was it though ?

I like Star Trek, and this movie came out with Star Trek as the Title. 
It then proceded to erase the history of what was kool about that franchise.

I was bait and switched, and I can't know that until after they got my money.

[AcePylut]

Quite frankly, the movie sucked.  The only thing interesting about it was hearing the actors pull out of some of the old classic lines, or seeing some of the "inside jokes" that only trekkers would get (like Sulu's sword, or the red-suited parachute jumper guy). 

Plot device - Time-travel?  Lame.  I thought we were supposed to watch STAR trek, not Time Trek.  So sick of Time Trek, and that's all that Rodenberry's baby has grown up to be.

Kirk losing a fight?  Ultra lame.  Kirk having to de-throne Spock from the cap'ns chair"?  Lame.

Special Effects:  Lame.  Try holding a scene or a shot for more than 1 billionth of a second, so we can actually SEE what's going on.

This whole movie smacks of incredible "writer, director, producer" laziness.  "Oh I can't come up with a smart, logical, and intersting way to wrap everyting up, so I'll just make up a lame bad-tatoo'ed trench coated romulan that looks nothing like a romulan and have him zip around time."  whatever happened to a classic STORY like TWOK? 

The BEST part of the movie was that the third dude that did the parachute jump was wearing a red-spacesuit.  Ya just knew he was gonna die and it was only a matter of how.

[FPF-DieHard]

You guys are deluded, and 10 million other people agree with me.   This was the best Trek movie since WoK.

[AcePylut]

There was no depth to this movie.  No suspence.  No cool fights.  Special Effects scenes that were designed for 13 year old MTV kids with ADHD.  The villian had practically zero character development - hell Nemesis's alter-picard was more developed than this Nero guy.  Nothing cerebral about the entire movie - no great messages about society's morals imparted...  You could walk into it 5 minutes before the climax and be caught up to speed before 15 seconds had passed.  They even butchered up the Koybashi Maru simulation made Kirks "solution" into a big joke.  Yeah a mouth like that is going to earn him a commendation for his unique solution. 

And really, lets take a cadet fresh out of Star Fleet Academy, a cadet that was on the Fed's brand spanking new flagship without permission, and turn him into the First Officer.... because after all, taht's what you do with your top of the line ships.  Turn it over to a bunch of green recruits fresh out of diapers without experienced mentors for them to follow. 

Just a wholly ridiculous movie. 

I think it was voidwar that said "random space movie" and that is a fitting tribute to what this movie was.... cuz outside of the characters names and some sci-fi technobabble there was nothing Star Trekky about it.

[Age]

Get your heads out of your asses, this moving is f*cking great!

I can't believe you said that.It did have its stellar moments but I must say I am purist.I will say the special effects were great as well as the acting.

It did look similar to Star Trek Nemesis only taking place in the 23C.That was tribble beside Scotty never would of thought.

What Trek movie was better than this besides Wrath of Khan?

I'm an SFB purist, not a Trek purist.   Trek has so many contradictions and retcons that it's "cannon" just can't be taken seriously.

I would say all of the original cast movies as well as First Contact.The reason there is so many contraditions is probably because of the amount of writers involed.This is all the movies to do with the original cast. 

[FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC]

While reading this thread i had all the time a mental picture in my head of some Tibetian monks making a giant  complex mandala from colored sand, and when they completed it  they wiped it away with one fast move with the hand and start a new one,, repeats all the time ,..
weired....

[Lepton]

Need I remind everyone that the Enterprise in TWOK was full of cadets ("So much for the little training mission"), that the Enterprise recently refitted was the only ship in range in TMP outfitted with a new crew and untested systems.  The fact that cadets were on these ships is a nod to these other movies. 

People also seem to assume that the ship was populated only with cadets, which is unsubstantiated to say the least, as the comm officer on the Enterprise was a Lieutenant, whom Uhura, a cadet, relieved, and Spock, the first officer, was, well an officer, DUH, a Commander in fact.

Let's also not forget that it's a MOVIE.

There were nods and tropes in this movie that reference Star Trek movies and episodes in a multitudinous ways.  To suggest, that this isn't a Star Trek movie is absurd and to suggest that Abrams and company just don't get it as absurd.

[Green]

Let's also not forget that it's a MOVIE.

What, WHat, WHAT!  It isn't a MOVIE...it is real damn you...you pointed eared devil!!!



Agree completely.  It was a darn good movie, and a good hope for a new set of ST movies to come.

[knightstorm]

Need I remind everyone that the Enterprise in TWOK was full of cadets ("So much for the little training mission"), that the Enterprise recently refitted was the only ship in range in TMP outfitted with a new crew and untested systems.  The fact that cadets were on these ships is a nod to these other movies. 

People also seem to assume that the ship was populated only with cadets, which is unsubstantiated to say the least, as the comm officer on the Enterprise was a Lieutenant, whom Uhura, a cadet, relieved, and Spock, the first officer, was, well an officer, DUH, a Commander in fact.

In Star Trek II, the Enterprise was attached to the academy on a training cruise, so it was carrying a crew of cadets, however officers were in all of the senior positions.  Here, TROST and his rape gang have Pike inexplicably appoints Kirk, a cadet who stowed away on his ship to a senior position.

[Lepton]

Need I remind everyone that the Enterprise in TWOK was full of cadets ("So much for the little training mission"), that the Enterprise recently refitted was the only ship in range in TMP outfitted with a new crew and untested systems.  The fact that cadets were on these ships is a nod to these other movies. 

People also seem to assume that the ship was populated only with cadets, which is unsubstantiated to say the least, as the comm officer on the Enterprise was a Lieutenant, whom Uhura, a cadet, relieved, and Spock, the first officer, was, well an officer, DUH, a Commander in fact.

In Star Trek II, the Enterprise was attached to the academy on a training cruise, so it was carrying a crew of cadets, however officers were in all of the senior positions.  Here, TROST and his rape gang have Pike inexplicably appoints Kirk, a cadet who stowed away on his ship to a senior position.

...

[TalonClaw]

I see some of you are still clinging to Star Trek canon like it was some sort of Bible.  If you say you aren't going to see it because it doesn't follow something that is not really written in stone, you are just denying yourself a good movie. 

[knightstorm]

Part of the appeal of Star Trek is the cannon, and the fact that everything is built upon previous films or episodes.  Yes, the cannon has had some retcons, but it has relatively few for a 45 year history.  Abrams failed to give a good reason for dropping it, and I am not especially pleased with the weak plot line of the film, or anything I have seen in the trailers, or interviews.  I will eventually get a bootleg dvd to silence the individuals who keep shouting that I should see the film before I pan it, however I don't expect that to see my opinion.

[FA Frey XC]

Lepton, handled.

Knightstorm, looks like you didn't get my point when you deleted your post in the other thread.

STOP ANTANGONIZING PEOPLE WE KNOW YOU ARE CLOSED MINDED.

I mean it.

[marstone]

Need I remind everyone that the Enterprise in TWOK was full of cadets ("So much for the little training mission"), that the Enterprise recently refitted was the only ship in range in TMP outfitted with a new crew and untested systems.  The fact that cadets were on these ships is a nod to these other movies. 

People also seem to assume that the ship was populated only with cadets, which is unsubstantiated to say the least, as the comm officer on the Enterprise was a Lieutenant, whom Uhura, a cadet, relieved, and Spock, the first officer, was, well an officer, DUH, a Commander in fact.

In Star Trek II, the Enterprise was attached to the academy on a training cruise, so it was carrying a crew of cadets, however officers were in all of the senior positions.  Here, TROST and his rape gang have Pike inexplicably appoints Kirk, a cadet who stowed away on his ship to a senior position.

might have something to do with Pike knowing Kirks father.   Will have real opinion after I see it tho.

[Nemesis]

might have something to do with Pike knowing Kirks father.   Will have real opinion after I see it tho.

Now imagine that the basic situation was the same but it was a modern U.S. Navy Captain who put a West Point cadet in charge of his ship over seasoned officers on a combat mission.  Would that cadet be handed a commission as captain if he won?  Would the original captain still be an officer or would he have been court martialed? 

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.  Things must be kept plausible in their context. 

Now if the 1st Officer had been told "Listen to this Kirk he is the expert on this situation" that would be different.  Commissioning Kirk and jumping him a stage or two in rank would also be different.

[FPF-DieHard]

might have something to do with Pike knowing Kirks father.   Will have real opinion after I see it tho.

Now imagine that the basic situation was the same but it was a modern U.S. Navy Captain who put a West Point cadet in charge of his ship over seasoned officers on a combat mission.  Would that cadet be handed a commission as captain if he won?  Would the original captain still be an officer or would he have been court martialed? 

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.  Things must be kept plausible in their context. 

Now if the 1st Officer had been told "Listen to this Kirk he is the expert on this situation" that would be different.  Commissioning Kirk and jumping him a stage or two in rank would also be different.

yes, I will concede that there were some ridiculous situations like Kirk getting a command right out of the academy.   Though he and his crew had just saved Earth and avenged Vulcan this still would not have happened.

I don't care.

They got the essence of Trek right, tha characters, the interaction, the magic that was missing for years with B&B stupidity.   I'm DYING to know what happens next with the ship and it's crew.

I'm a huge DC comics reader so this retcon is NOTHING, you should see what they've done with Superman in the last 20 years.

[Age]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

[Green]

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

Separate subject...who did a good job, fair job, bad job compared to the original actor.

Actor - Character - Rating
Pine - Kirk - Fair
Quinto - Spock - Fair (that whole Uhura thing and temper...unless it was a 7th year, then I understand)
Nimoy - Spock - Perfect (kind of like cheating)
Greenwood - Pike - Good (but only have the pilot to go off of...can't really use the one/two beeping as a baseline)
Urban - McCoy - Great
Saldona - Uhura - Bad
Pegg - Scotty - Fair to Good (too comical I think)
Cho - Sulu - Good
Yelchin - Chekov - Good

[Nemesis]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

[Hexx]

might have something to do with Pike knowing Kirks father.   Will have real opinion after I see it tho.

Now imagine that the basic situation was the same but it was a modern U.S. Navy Captain who put a West Point cadet in charge of his ship over seasoned officers on a combat mission.  Would that cadet be handed a commission as captain if he won?  Would the original captain still be an officer or would he have been court martialed? 

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.  Things must be kept plausible in their context. 

Now if the 1st Officer had been told "Listen to this Kirk he is the expert on this situation" that would be different.  Commissioning Kirk and jumping him a stage or two in rank would also be different.

Or imagine a modern US navy Captain handing over command of his ship to a Bajor.. I mean British major just because.
I'm pretty sure (have to wait until the blue rays) that Chekov (ensign iirc) was left in charge of the Enterpise once or twice.

The original series was awesome, but it also has an android unable to handle the Liar's Paradox, has a Romulan ship cross the neutral zone under impulse power (or something equally slow.. can't wait for my Blue Ray's to arrive) Kirk has a computer "enhance" something by the staggering power of one to the 4th power.. yeah the lsit goes on.

Does the new movie have some logic problems? Sure, but it's not like the original series didn't have it's own screwups. Gene seems to have cared more about telling a good story- and stuff gets missed.

I agree the promotion of the cadets was odd, never been military but I'm guessing cadet-> Captain doesn't happen alot.
I *really* think they should have included some of the backstory from the prequel comic (although not all the THG characters-seriously does anything in the Universe happen when these characters aren't around?) And there's a few other small nitpicks, that being said it simply is a great movie, and (imo) a fantastic additon to the series.

[Nemesis]

On the Impulse power one you have to recall that Trek has "Impulse power" and "Impulse drive" as two different things the same for "Warp power" and "Warp drive".  The Romulan ship may well have had "Warp Drive" powered by what the Federation considered "Impulse power".   Some sources seem to view Impulse power as a fusion reactor and warp power as Matter/Antimatter reactor.  Assuming the map was to scale the Warbird was likely traveling at 1/3 the speed of the Enterprise.

A foreign officer can be serving with your troops (Canadian forces members served in Iraq) as part of your forces under some circumstances.  A Bajoran assigned that way to your ship can easily be in the chain of command as an officer (consider in Doctor Strangelove Group Captain Mandrake of the British Empire was serving under the American General Ripper) and could become the commanding officer due to casualties.

[Nemesis]

Question should the Federation need to "activate" ships in Earth orbit without assigned crews in an emergency how many officers/crew would come from:

1/  Starfleet Academy teaching staff.

2/ Starfleet crew on leave.

3/ Starfleet retired/reserve offices on planet. 

I'd think the problem would be turning crew away rather than having to assign cadets to command positions.

[Norsehound]

I don't think all of the Earth fleet was comprised of trainees... just the graduating class was shuttled up to give extra help and fill in the gaps of the crew. Kirk and his class aren't the officers- they're just lower-rankers that were shuttled onboard. The ship's real Medic died, leaving McCoy (maybe the next senior officer?) in charge. Olsen got himself killed and Scotty probably had the qualifications for chief engineer, but was exiled for misplacing Porthos. Uhura showed competency in a time of crisis, and since their enemy was Romulan she was in a better position to assist the command crew than the appointed officer. Spock is Spock, already qualified for senior science officer but needed to be released from his duty at academy. It's likely that the bridge was staffed with experienced officers, just surrounded by cadets or junior officers placed there out of circumstance. Besides, it wasn't said that Sulu and Checkov were cadets. Sulu might have been a shuttle pilot that took helm duty when required (might explain why he didn't think of the 'exterior inertial dampers- shuttles don't have them).

Pike probably had a lot of pull with command- there's nothing to say he wasn't the legendary captain that he wasn't in the prime timeline. Perhaps he threw his weight around to get Kirk pushed to command even if the rest of the board didn't think so. Pike might be the only person (other than old Spock) to think he's what starfleet needs. The next movie might deal with the rest of Starfleet taking issue with "some punk kid" in command of Starfleet's newest ship. They never did brush upon the fact that Kirk was the youngest starfleet Captain of his time... even in the prime timeline. Kirk might have to justify his ability to command over the other lethargic captains who had the tendency to shuffle their feet when there was a call for action.

I like the spirit and the tone of the movie. Almost like being back at the beginning... the sky's the limit. We'll always have the original run... the new movie is too small to eclipse it entirely. But now that we're no longer burdened with strict adherence to canon and treknobabble, creativity can flourish. I want to see more of what this crew and ship can do.

[The_Joker]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

They were no longer cadets.  They were activated and given assignments.  I agree that promoting Kirk was a stretch, but he was the one who figured out what was going on.  I can forgive this. 

[marstone]

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

Separate subject...who did a good job, fair job, bad job compared to the original actor.

Actor - Character - Rating
Pine - Kirk - Fair
Quinto - Spock - Fair (that whole Uhura thing and temper...unless it was a 7th year, then I understand)
Nimoy - Spock - Perfect (kind of like cheating)
Greenwood - Pike - Good (but only have the pilot to go off of...can't really use the one/two beeping as a baseline)
Urban - McCoy - Great
Saldona - Uhura - Bad
Pegg - Scotty - Fair to Good (too comical I think)
Cho - Sulu - Good
Yelchin - Chekov - Good

Want to see how fast someone can gain rank, check out history.  Look at General Custer and his skyrocket to a General out of the academy.

true, shouldn't have happened, but it has and does at times.

[Voidwar]

And there's a few other small nitpicks, that being said it simply is a great movie, and (imo) a fantastic additon to the series.

Its not an "addition" to the series, it is a poor substitute for the series,  because it erased the original SERIES of events, so what is it "adding" to ?

[Sirgod]

It didn't erase anything bro, IT is a whole other alternate universe, kinda like the episode Mirror Mirror. The stuff in the original universe is still there though, and still happened.

Stephen

[Skawpya]

saw the movie, and was pleasantly surprised. The changes are explained, and do not in fact erase the old canon, the original universe is still there and reachable via the usual black hole/alien interference/etc.

My main beef with the movie was at the end
*spoiler alert*












My preferred alternate climax. "screw you Nero, you may die if you want but we're saving your crew. Chekov, begin beaming them into the brig!"

[Voidwar]

It didn't erase anything bro, IT is a whole other alternate universe, kinda like the episode Mirror Mirror. The stuff in the original universe is still there though, and still happened.

Stephen

I do not buy that at all.  Its not an alternate universe.

THIS WAS TIME TRAVEL !!

AGED SPOCK MAKES FUTURE ENEMY, that guy goes back in TIME and kills Kirks DAD.

Note the Dad, and Kirk is being delivered in shuttle.  TIME TRAVEL !!

No Alternate universe was implied, this is time travel and a NEW timeline.

When they have messed with timetravel before, they have always striven mightily to repair the timeline.  This time they did not, in script or story, and thus the Timeline in which SPOCK AGED, never happened.

[Sirgod]

LOL, ok man, whatever. But they even said it was an alternate universe in the movie.

Stephen

[Age]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

I have to agree with Nemesis here as literaly they just wouldn't hand it over to him.There is only so much time in a movie unless this was a TV searies.

[AcePylut]

Oh yeah, the ass-kicking, skirt laying, "Win at Any Cost" kirk that we've all come to KNOW and LOVE is no more, he's been replaced by this alternate timeline.  He shot his wad of great-dom in this movie.  he had his moment in the sun where he summoned up the balls to kick some butt. 

Who knows, maybe we'll get to see him next on Time Trek 12:  Ferrying Trash From the Earth to Saturn cuz he didn't get a friendly handshake for that ridiculous "koybayshi maru joke of a scene". 

What a disappoinment. "oh there's 5 ships, meh, fire some photons, yawn" That scene right there lost the movie for me.  For the producers to make such a joke out of a major, in any timeline, event in StarFleet history, well screw whoever has control of the Trek universe. 

And really, what kind of time travelling supercommander of an uber ship gives an order like "fire everything".  Yeah, even the trashcompactor?  Hope you don't need that energy for your, um, real weapons.  Whatever they are.  unless, of course, the weapon is called "Everything".

Oh the Wrath of Kahn?


Sorry guys, TWOK was just a figment of your imagination. 

[AcePylut]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

I have to agree with Nemesis here as literaly they just wouldn't hand it over to him.There is only so much time in a movie unless this was a TV searies.

This movie could have been all TOS Canon and had the Koybashi Maru be the 2nd act, (1st Act being "they all meet each other"), and the 3rd act would be the applying that "no win" scenario in a no-win match, with Pike at the helm and the crew we know as "ride alongs"... like the training mission in TWOK... not a  "Oh here you go greenie fresh outta StarFleet Academy, why don't ya'll just take control of the newest biggest badass ship we've ever built.  After all, we BECAME the Federation by making boneheaded decisions like this... ya know... not letting anyone with experience be in charge of our rocking uber ship"

Gaa, this was such a disappointment in so many ways.

Oh yeah, I like how Spock gave Scott the "equation" for Warp Transportation, nice lead to "in the future" to explain/hint/insidejoke when Scotty gives that guy the formula for transparent aluminum in Star Trek 4.. but oh wait, Star Trek 4 never happened, sorry, time trek and all, it's all been replaced.  No whales needed saving this time.  Time Trek 4 only required them to save a goldfish. 

Can't wait to see Time Trek 4:  The Voyage to the Local Pet Store for some GoldFish. 

That outta be exciting!  Hey, no need for a commie bastage to be stuck on a naval base looking for nuclear wessels.  Nope, just give checkov a phaser to stun some schmuck in an alley and steal his wallet for the 1 dollar he needs to buy a goldfish.

*sigh*

I can't stand what they just did to Star Trek with this craptacular plot device.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

While I can see that the film did live up to its namesake's hype in some respects, I don't have any good things to say about a director who couldn't be bothered to reference the original.

This implies that the young in future will be equally disrespectful of others, being inclined to do things their own way at their own time. Which would lead me to predict that future Trek would be likewise engineered for mass appeal and not the work of art I'd sit down for a couple hours each night to research lore on.

Trek was marketed for mass appeal.  From the get go.  The Network simply miscalculated it's popularity and general appeal toward a cross section of americans.

So they ended it.

[knightstorm]

Want to see how fast someone can gain rank, check out history.  Look at General Custer and his skyrocket to a General out of the academy.

true, shouldn't have happened, but it has and does at times.

The difference is that after the war, he was reduced to his permanent rank of captain.  We remember him as "General Custer," but he only held the rank of Lt. Colonel when he was killed.

[KBF-Crim]

hrm....what about the Federation temporal corps?

You dont think they might have had to deal with this?

[Soreyes]

Ah Hell I can tell you all that your all wromg on placing the blame on time travel and bad acting. The truth is that J'inn went back in time to earth....... Because there was a Bumper crop harvist of Nip in Kanses and he could not miss out on the profits he could make.

[Sirgod]

Ah Hell I can tell you all that your all wromg on placing the blame on time travel and bad acting. The truth is that J'inn went back in time to earth....... Because there was a Bumper crop harvist of Nip in Kanses and he could not miss out on the profits he could make.

Well, he has to support Shoposauris Rex and her habits after all.

Stephen

[Age]

It is not West Point it is Annapolis as that is where US Navy officer cadets go West Point is the US Army.

That detail was wrong but the principle stands. 

I have to agree the whole "Kirk is 1st Officer" is a stretch.  But outside of Pike and Spock, did anyone see any other commissioned officers in the movie?  If not, then "why not Kirk" and marstone's reason is as good as any.

A cadet is not in the chain of command, even a non com outranks him.  Presumably the other cadets who were legitimately aboard were given brevet ranks as ensigns.

As a suspended  cadet ALL the other cadets rank him, he is effectively a civilian.  If Pike did give Kirk the same breveting he would still have been junior as it would have occured after all the others as Pike and Starfleet did not initially know he was aboard ship.

I have to agree with Nemesis here as literaly they just wouldn't hand it over to him.There is only so much time in a movie unless this was a TV searies.

This movie could have been all TOS Canon and had the Koybashi Maru be the 2nd act, (1st Act being "they all meet each other"), and the 3rd act would be the applying that "no win" scenario in a no-win match, with Pike at the helm and the crew we know as "ride alongs"... like the training mission in TWOK... not a  "Oh here you go greenie fresh outta StarFleet Academy, why don't ya'll just take control of the newest biggest badass ship we've ever built.  After all, we BECAME the Federation by making boneheaded decisions like this... ya know... not letting anyone with experience be in charge of our rocking uber ship"

Gaa, this was such a disappointment in so many ways.

Oh yeah, I like how Spock gave Scott the "equation" for Warp Transportation, nice lead to "in the future" to explain/hint/insidejoke when Scotty gives that guy the formula for transparent aluminum in Star Trek 4.. but oh wait, Star Trek 4 never happened, sorry, time trek and all, it's all been replaced.  No whales needed saving this time.  Time Trek 4 only required them to save a goldfish. 

Can't wait to see Time Trek 4:  The Voyage to the Local Pet Store for some GoldFish. 

That outta be exciting!  Hey, no need for a commie bastage to be stuck on a naval base looking for nuclear wessels.  Nope, just give checkov a phaser to stun some schmuck in an alley and steal his wallet for the 1 dollar he needs to buy a goldfish.

*sigh*

I can't stand what they just did to Star Trek with this craptacular plot device.

Who is to say this is biggest badest ship in StarFleet.There could be BCH,DN and BB.We have never seen all the ships of all the Empires.

[Voidwar]

We do have evidence from Uhura and Spock's dialogue that it was the premier assignment.

something about "favoritism" . . .

[Lepton]

It didn't erase anything bro, IT is a whole other alternate universe, kinda like the episode Mirror Mirror. The stuff in the original universe is still there though, and still happened.

Stephen

I do not buy that at all.  Its not an alternate universe.

THIS WAS TIME TRAVEL !!

AGED SPOCK MAKES FUTURE ENEMY, that guy goes back in TIME and kills Kirks DAD.

Note the Dad, and Kirk is being delivered in shuttle.  TIME TRAVEL !!

No Alternate universe was implied, this is time travel and a NEW timeline.

When they have messed with timetravel before, they have always striven mightily to repair the timeline.  This time they did not, in script or story, and thus the Timeline in which SPOCK AGED, never happened.

I'd refer you to this article on multiverse theories:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

Essentially, a number of interpretations of quantum theory specify that there may be any number of universes.  Specifically of interest is the interpretation that says that the outcome of certain probabilistic events cannot be predicated absolutely, therefore,  instead of these number of superimposed quantum states collapsing into one more probable state, there must exist a set of related realities or universes in which all the different outcomes of that event do indeed happen.

This concept has been popularized in fiction in the manner that it is used in this movie, that events in the lives of individuals can somehow create parallel universes in which instead of me typing this response, I did not type this response.  Clearly, to me this is absurd as these kind of probabilistic outcomes really should be thought of as pertaining to particles and energies at a quantum level not at a Newtonian level.

So, to explain in the parlance of the movie, going back in time created an alternate timeline/parallel universe (here they are the same thing) in which events occurred differently than the original timeline, however that original timeline/universe still exists, just as in quantum theory the observation of some probabilistic quantum state in a sense creates alternate universes or timelines in which all the different possible states exist.

That's the best I can do.  You can figure out the rest for yourself, not that I pretend to understand any of that stuff.

[toasty0]

For further information on this see W. Heisenberg, The Physical Principles of the Quantum Theory (tr. 1949); D. Lindley, Uncertainty (2007).

[CaptStumpy]

Saw it yesterday.

Was it the "best film evah"! No.

Were there things I would have done differently had I written/artdirected/directed. Of course. Even if the biggest Trekky fanboy on Earth had directed/written/art directed the thing you'd have people bitching about how he ruined Trek. Everyone's ideas of what Trek should be are going to differ. No matter what they did there'd be trekkers that would hate it and claim it didn't follow canon, or the ship should have been this or that, or the whatsamagig should have whatever. The minutiae that Trekkers can get riled up about is amazing.

Hell, I don't remember a Trek movie or a show where there wasn't an absurd amount of bitching and gritching about how they screwed up Trek in some way.

Like the new film or not, the franchise was on it's last legs and it's arguable that it even had any. This film was a needed shot in the arm that I found refreshing. Trek started out in TOS as a fun swashbuckling romp and this film lived up to that in a way that recent Treks forgot. Trek started taking itself too seriously. It needed to lighten up. Break in new audiences.

Personally I found this film to be more in the spirit of the original series than any movie or series managed to do since. They needed to freshen it up, and take a new direction, not try to meet the impossible task of meeting the standards of what "true Trek" is to a bunch of people that will happily argue for hours over the placement or color of a deflector dish. Or simply remaking the original series.

I hated the beer brewery of an engine room and can't stand the iMac of a bridge, but you know what? I was still completely entertained. This movie ranked right up with the best from the series and movies and after B&B dragging the franchise into crapdom it's great to see a Trek film get such a spectacular reception. People that never were into Trek are lining up to see it multiple times. Why? Because IT IS FUN.

I never will get why some people act like this film had an affair with their wife or something or the director came up and personally poked them in the eye.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-feature-star-trek/1099561/

[Villa64]

For those who hate the new ST movie, a link to a quality upcoming production.  Clearly, quality scifi.  I can tell because I have seen the trailer.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?cl=13484452

[toasty0]

 

[KOTH-KieranXC, Ret.]

Who is to say this is biggest badest ship in StarFleet.There could be BCH,DN and BB.We have never seen all the ships of all the Empires.

um, it's kinda always been assumed that pretty much at any point in the TOS era the Constitutions were the plum assignments. The only thing bigger would be a Federation-class DN, and from what I've read, those ships basically wait at starbases for wars to break out and don't do much in peacetime.

So yeah, fairly safe to say Enterprise would have been the premiere assignment in the Fleet at that time.

[Tus-XC]

I liked it, it was good.  I had a few nitpicks.

There is no way a supernova could have been the reason for this.  Its obvious that it wasn't the sun for romulus as that would only give them 8 minutes to solve the problem.  Yet it couldn't be one further away because that would have taken years (cloest to us is like 4 lightyears, so i use that as a measuring stick).  Thus my problem with it. 

I didn't like the deck layouts, If they wanted old looking they could have just taken any navy ships deck layout and use it.

Scotty was way to jovial, didn't like him as comic relief

Thats about it

[SPQRPardek]

 Yea i would give it a 6 or 7 out of  10 i guess Romulan mining ships are to be feared

[marstone]

Yea i would give it a 6 or 7 out of  10 i guess Romulan mining ships are to be feared

just got back.  Not a bad show.  I enjoyed it mostly.

As for the mining ship being feared, it is from 100 years in the future, so the shields of the feds in the movie are no where as strong as the ones in the future.  I also figure the massive missle attacks of the mining ship is from missiles designed to destroy big asteroids for mining.  The reason that not as many phasers were being used on that huge ship.

As for Kirk getting command, it made sense as manly the whole crew was cadets except for Spock and Pike, anyone who might have had some rank were not command track.

So overall, enjoyable way to spend the time.  Will see it again, either own or rent, not in theatre.

[Lepton]

If you read the Star Trek Countdown comics, it actually fills in a lot of the gaps.  The mining ship has been borgified and those missiles were indeed mining tools, for as much sense as any of that makes.

As for the supernova destroying the galaxy stuff, my presumption is that it was an artificially induced phenomenon which the comics back up to a degree.

[marstone]

If you read the Star Trek Countdown comics, it actually fills in a lot of the gaps.  The mining ship has been borgified and those missiles were indeed mining tools, for as much sense as any of that makes.

As for the supernova destroying the galaxy stuff, my presumption is that it was an artificially induced phenomenon which the comics back up to a degree.

mining tools make sense actaully.  You use those multi-warhead missles to break up large asteroids into small parts that can be taken into the ship and processed.

[AcePylut]

Maybe we could call it:  Star Trek:  The Unoriginal

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/all/Star_Trek_Steals_From_Star_Wars/#244675

[GDA-S'Cipio]

On the Impulse power one you have to recall that Trek has "Impulse power" and "Impulse drive" as two different things the same for "Warp power" and "Warp drive".  The Romulan ship may well have had "Warp Drive" powered by what the Federation considered "Impulse power".   Some sources seem to view Impulse power as a fusion reactor and warp power as Matter/Antimatter reactor.  Assuming the map was to scale the Warbird was likely traveling at 1/3 the speed of the Enterprise.

Nah, it was a flub.  All that other stuff "we" made up later in order to rationalize what was said onscreen.

It's OK; I *like* the tactical warp explanation SFB came up with. 

-S'Cipio

[Lieutenant_Q]

I tend to view the statement in "Balance of Terror" as this:

The Romulans HAVE Warp drive.  Otherwise how do they become a galactic empire?  However, the Warp Drive they have is insufficient to power their starships, therefore they rely heavily on Impulse Power.  Which on a Federation Starship would simply be reserve power.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Personally I found this film to be more in the spirit of the original series than any movie or series managed to do since. They needed to freshen it up, and take a new direction, not try to meet the impossible task of meeting the standards of what "true Trek" is to a bunch of people that will happily argue for hours over the placement or color of a deflector dish. Or simply remaking the original series.

I saw it today, and I think your paragraph sums things up well.  This was a good Trek movie.  It was, in fact, a good movie.

I'm old enough to have seen (though not well remember) TOS  when it was first on the air live.  Despite altering of pieces of Trek lore that the Romulan's appeareance shouldn't have altered (ships built on land, Spock making out with Uhura) this movie was much more true the spirit of TOS than TNG was.  Thus, other than STII and STVI, I prefer this movie to anything else Trek that's been produced since 1969.

And, it took those damn brow ridges off the Romulans and made them look like Romulans again.  I can forgive a movie that does that for an awful lot of other meddling.   

-S'Cipio

[EmeraldEdge]

"And, it took those damn brow ridges off the Romulans and made them look like Romulans again.  I can forgive a movie that does that for an awful lot of other meddling.   "

Good lord!  Seriously?  Damnit!  This movie just jumped up 10,000 notches without my even seeing it (does that count?  i know I'm not allowed to have an opinion without seeing it yet).  I can't believe they actually did it.  I heard about the tatoos, and I could see that happening (just look at how fast they have become a part of our culture, notice we have no brow ridges, though )  Man, I'm going to have to drag my sorry butt out to the theatre soon I guess.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

"And, it took those damn brow ridges off the Romulans and made them look like Romulans again.  I can forgive a movie that does that for an awful lot of other meddling.   "

Good lord!  Seriously?  Damnit!  This movie just jumped up 10,000 notches without my even seeing it (does that count?  i know I'm not allowed to have an opinion without seeing it yet).  I can't believe they actually did it.  I heard about the tatoos, and I could see that happening (just look at how fast they have become a part of our culture, notice we have no brow ridges, though )  Man, I'm going to have to drag my sorry butt out to the theatre soon I guess.

Yes, I was *very* pleased with this.   

I wouldn't worry too much about the tatoos.  They may or may not be popular in Nero's "current" timeline  Romulan, culture; I don't think we get enough to know.  Without giving much away, these guys are basically roughnecks in space.  Seeing them covered in common tatoos is like sailing out to a deepwater oil rig and finding all the workers there sharing common tatoos.

There is a quick scene of Romulans on Romulus, and I don't think they had tatoos.  But I'm not sure.  I don't remember them being present, but I wasn't looking for that at the time.  I'll have to watch again.

And, as you say, that sort of cultural thing shifts easily from generation to generation, so even if Romulus was covered with taoos it doesn't bother me as much as the brow ridges.  Growing new bone matter is a might harder to explain.   

-S'Cipio

[marstone]

what I seen about the tatoos was they are a sign of grief over the loss of their homeworld.  Culture had temp paint on tatoos for morning a loss of a loved one.  As they wear off, your over the course of the morning period.  But since the planet was loss, the morning would never end so they had them tatooed on instead.