Topic: Votes for the worst ship in the game....

[Panzergranate]

I reckon everyone has an idea of which is the most pointless or worst ship in SFB and SFC.

My vote is for the F5Y.... a ship with just Disrupters (and crap ones at that!!) which finds the large freighter shields next to impossible to penetrate, struggles to kill small freighters , making it pretty useless as a commerce raider, which is what it seems to be intended for.

It can't be used as a cloaked scout as it lacks special sensors, which would replace the sole armament of Disrupters if fitted.

So the case for the F5Y being the worst and most pointless ship in the game is put.... unless someone else can come up with another candidate.

[Nemesis]

R-COH.  Loses BOTH it's plasma torpedoes and one of its 2 shuttles in becoming a Commando ship.  What type of ship can it capture with ONE transporter and 1 shuttle?  With 4 Ph I, good shields and maneuvering it could defeat a freighter or even a F-Pol but how is it supposed to actually function as a Commando ship? 

K-E4G.  Loses its disruptor's and drone rack in becoming a commando ship but doesn't carry enough transporters or shuttles to perform as a commando ship.  With only 4 Ph II it finds it next to impossible to knock down a shield to allow boarding actions in any case.  It can't run away due to the 4 pt aft shield.  Even to capture (let alone destroy) a Federation Freighter would be a challenge.  What possible role does this ship fill?

[Nemesis]

I reckon everyone has an idea of which is the most pointless or worst ship in SFB and SFC.

My vote is for the F5Y.... a ship with just Disrupters (and crap ones at that!!) which finds the large freighter shields next to impossible to penetrate, struggles to kill small freighters , making it pretty useless as a commerce raider, which is what it seems to be intended for.

It can't be used as a cloaked scout as it lacks special sensors, which would replace the sole armament of Disrupters if fitted.

So the case for the F5Y being the worst and most pointless ship in the game is put.... unless someone else can come up with another candidate.

The K-F5Y keeps all its K-F5 armaments and so long as you ignore the idiocy of putting a cloak on it the ship is an excellent frigate as intended.  The K-E4Y is similar in adding a cloak to a ship that is otherwise unchanged and unsuited for using a cloak.  Yes it can beat freighters easily.

Cloaks are useful for scouting and for ships with long weapon cycles not for mainline ships whose weapons cycle fast.  It also needs enemies against whom a cloak can be effective.  Two out of the 3 Klingon enemies have weapons that can take down a cloaked ship quite well.

[Starfox1701]

Any of the frigate comando ships are pretty much useless. They were already too small to survive in a ship to ship combate enviroment which is why they got replaced with war destroyers in the first place. Trying to shoe horn in another function for which the US Navy builds baby carieers for is a asking for trouble.

[knightstorm]

I'd have to say the Taldren adv ships.  While I am not opposed to the adv weaponry like many of the posters on these boards, I can't stand the ships that they are on.  Ships without limits do not belong in a game that is supposed to be about managing limited energy resources.

[Nemesis]

I'd have to say the Taldren adv ships.  While I am not opposed to the adv weaponry like many of the posters on these boards, I can't stand the ships that they are on.  Ships without limits do not belong in a game that is supposed to be about managing limited energy resources.

If the topic were which ships need most to be removed from the game I would say the X Ships myself.  The problem I have with them is not the weapons but the major jump in total capability in 1 generation. 

Consider the way the K-D7 evolved step by step to the B then K then W.  Then the jump to the DX where unlike all other upgrades, systems enhanced across the board in large ways.  All phasers upgraded to X,  50% increase in disruptors, 25% power boost, major shield increase and so forth not a generational change but a change bigger than all those from the K-D7 to the K-D7W in one step.

There need to be more incremental upgrades to the full X status or remove the current X ships altogether to keep generational changes in line with prior changes.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Cloaking would be great for Klingons, but only if they had a cloak cost of 1 or less, in which case it would be cheap as all get-out!

Class-for-class, I really hate most Klingon dreadnoughts. Most smaller Klingon ships have great arcs, but things like the C8 have many of their offensive phasers facing only one side, and the disruptor arcs are barely better than FA-only. Compared to many of the Klink dreadnoughts, the C7 has as many or more ph-1, and better arcs. Now, the C8 and C9 have better durability, but I don't think that a Klingon should rely on that durability to win, so it's a dumb design to trade good arcs/maneuverability/efficiency for durability.

About the D7W ... were all D7K/D7L converted to this type eventually? If so, it makes me feel better about abusing command ships.

[Czar Mohab]

R-COH.  Loses BOTH it's plasma torpedoes and one of its 2 shuttles in becoming a Commando ship.  What type of ship can it capture with ONE transporter and 1 shuttle?  With 4 Ph I, good shields and maneuvering it could defeat a freighter or even a F-Pol but how is it supposed to actually function as a Commando ship? 

K-E4G.  Loses its disruptor's and drone rack in becoming a commando ship but doesn't carry enough transporters or shuttles to perform as a commando ship.  With only 4 Ph II it finds it next to impossible to knock down a shield to allow boarding actions in any case.  It can't run away due to the 4 pt aft shield.  Even to capture (let alone destroy) a Federation Freighter would be a challenge.  What possible role does this ship fill?

COH can land on planets (Aerodynamically, IIRC) in SFB, which would allow the ship to lower the ramp, unload everything, and get out of dodge. Lost this coolness in SFC. Very sad, Romulans can own almost any planet within a few turns using mass troop landings - Biggest problem was getting the slow tubs there in a timely manner, and in one piece.

Any of the frigate comando ships are pretty much useless. They were already too small to survive in a ship to ship combate enviroment which is why they got replaced with war destroyers in the first place. Trying to shoe horn in another function for which the US Navy builds baby carieers for is a asking for trouble.

Too true - this is an instance where the SFB to SFC conversion breaks down. While they may not be the first choice to take on a planetary raid, they could be there and after the real warships clear the area of baddies these could come in and, using both their own transporters and those of their friendly ships to beam down troops. Kind of useless in battle themselves, and probably not the desired ship to go capturing other ships with, but so long as they have support and they stay more or less in their role, they're fine enough ships.

As far as SFC is concerned, these are indeed mighty useless. Commando Frigates in SFC are best when you're shooting at them in your brand new "Just out of the Academy" Frigate. They are more or less free prestige (unless you really goof it up) in this instance.

Czar "Worthless ship = F-CLH" Mohab, who notes that this is just one of many...

[Panzergranate]

I kind of agree on the commando ships being unfit for purpose.

In our LAN games here, both sides tend to opt for small troop ships, which have more transporters and can have a 4 x shuttle bay ducktail welded on the tail plus a skid, under the belly, for additional stuff.

Troop Ships are listed, as standard, under "All Races" as X-FTS and X-FTL in the SFBSPC13.TXT and SHIPLIST.TXT files right at the top, but with no model assigned, for use in scenario scripts. However Taldren never used them actually in the SFC games.

Apart from being slow, troopships can land troops, carry several shuttles and even have facilities for MRS shuttles.

If I was a Rommie player wishing to capture something, and given the choice between a R-COH and R-FTS or R-FTL, I'd go for a troopship with ducktail and skids everytime, a couple of MRS shuttles, a cargo bay full of heavy weapons and other useful millitary hardware.

[Chrystoff]

I kind of agree on the commando ships being unfit for purpose.

In our LAN games here, both sides tend to opt for small troop ships, which have more transporters and can have a 4 x shuttle bay ducktail welded on the tail plus a skid, under the belly, for additional stuff.

Troop Ships are listed, as standard, under "All Races" as X-FTS and X-FTL in the SFBSPC13.TXT and SHIPLIST.TXT files right at the top, but with no model assigned, for use in scenario scripts. However Taldren never used them actually in the SFC games.

Apart from being slow, troopships can land troops, carry several shuttles and even have facilities for MRS shuttles.

If I was a Rommie player wishing to capture something, and given the choice between a R-COH and R-FTS or R-FTL, I'd go for a troopship with ducktail and skids everytime, a couple of MRS shuttles, a cargo bay full of heavy weapons and other useful millitary hardware.

  Are there any renders anywhere for what one of these might look like? The ducktail and skid idea sounds interesting.

[Panzergranate]

We just do what SFB players do with their freighter models.... and just imagine that the ducktails and skids are in place.

There are ADB SSDs of freighters with either ducktails, skids or both fitted, along with "In Ballast" SSDs of freighters.

The ducktail is just a 4 x Box aft shuttle hangar tacked onto the back of freighters to allow a pair of 2 space Cargo shuttles to be carried and operated. This would be useful for landing and retreiving cargo from planets where landing a freighter isn't adviseable and where transporter transfers are impossible.  Needless to say, 2 space MRS shuttles and any other 2 space small craft will also fit into the ducktail hangar bay.

Skids are welded under the forward hull of the freighter and usually carry 4 x box spaces of useful stuff, such as transporters, etc. For freighters, ADB has a proscribed set rigging. However, ADB has a heavy Q-Ship SSD displaying both dual weapons skids and a ducktial, on their website.

Ducktails and skid can be fitted to ALL freighter based millitary vessels, so will fit onto troopships, repair freighters, AuxCV and AuxCVA, etc. without affecting movement costs.

Someone has already posted up "In Ballast" Fed freighters on Battleclinic.

Troopships use stock freighter hulls, so any freighter for a specific race can be used. You just need to look online for the relavent models.

I'm sure that the creators of the freighter models will do revised versions with duscktails and skids in the various combinations.

The specs are already in the shiplists, one just needs to marry them up to the appropriate race's freighters.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Worse ship in the game?

Usually the one I am flying, I give all the better ships and load outs to the AI piloting the other swhips in my fleet. That way they might stand a chance in fight without me having to micro manage them.

[Starfox1701]

I'd have to say the Taldren adv ships.  While I am not opposed to the adv weaponry like many of the posters on these boards, I can't stand the ships that they are on.  Ships without limits do not belong in a game that is supposed to be about managing limited energy resources.

If the topic were which ships need most to be removed from the game I would say the X Ships myself.  The problem I have with them is not the weapons but the major jump in total capability in 1 generation. 

Consider the way the K-D7 evolved step by step to the B then K then W.  Then the jump to the DX where unlike all other upgrades, systems enhanced across the board in large ways.  All phasers upgraded to X,  50% increase in disruptors, 25% power boost, major shield increase and so forth not a generational change but a change bigger than all those from the K-D7 to the K-D7W in one step.

There need to be more incremental upgrades to the full X status or remove the current X ships altogether to keep generational changes in line with prior changes.

I have to disagree here. If you look at the development history for SFB all the X ships come out after the Movies have shown people the refit Constitution and Katinga models. These are both ships that have massive improvements over there TOS counterparts. Because the makers of SFB have no desire to move completely out of the TOS framework they have made for the game the Xships became an alternitive to the true historical development of tech in Star Trek and the one item the firmly placed the game in an alternet timeline. When the X ships are seen in the context of TMP tech in a TOS universe for SFB or TLE tech in a TMP universe for SFC they don't seem that over powered to me. Just think of them as the nuc boats of the sub world. Anything eles is just a diesel engine.

[marstone]

I'd have to say the Taldren adv ships.  While I am not opposed to the adv weaponry like many of the posters on these boards, I can't stand the ships that they are on.  Ships without limits do not belong in a game that is supposed to be about managing limited energy resources.

If the topic were which ships need most to be removed from the game I would say the X Ships myself.  The problem I have with them is not the weapons but the major jump in total capability in 1 generation. 

Consider the way the K-D7 evolved step by step to the B then K then W.  Then the jump to the DX where unlike all other upgrades, systems enhanced across the board in large ways.  All phasers upgraded to X,  50% increase in disruptors, 25% power boost, major shield increase and so forth not a generational change but a change bigger than all those from the K-D7 to the K-D7W in one step.

There need to be more incremental upgrades to the full X status or remove the current X ships altogether to keep generational changes in line with prior changes.

I have to disagree here. If you look at the development history for SFB all the X ships come out after the Movies have shown people the refit Constitution and Katinga models. These are both ships that have massive improvements over there TOS counterparts. Because the makers of SFB have no desire to move completely out of the TOS framework they have made for the game the Xships became an alternitive to the true historical development of tech in Star Trek and the one item the firmly placed the game in an alternet timeline. When the X ships are seen in the context of TMP tech in a TOS universe for SFB or TLE tech in a TMP universe for SFC they don't seem that over powered to me. Just think of them as the nuc boats of the sub world. Anything eles is just a diesel engine.

X-ship development doesn't cover the movies in SFB because, ADB didn't have the copywrite for the movie only TOS.  IIRC X3 was the movie ships (and ADB didn't do X3)

[Khalee1]

Worst ship in the game Anything Klingon Nuff said

[Nemesis]

Worst ship in the game Anything Klingon Nuff said

The K-F5 and K-D7 and their mainline variants are among the best in the game.  If you are good enough. 

[Nemesis]

I have to disagree here. If you look at the development history for SFB all the X ships come out after the Movies have shown people the refit Constitution and Katinga models. These are both ships that have massive improvements over there TOS counterparts. Because the makers of SFB have no desire to move completely out of the TOS framework they have made for the game the Xships became an alternitive to the true historical development of tech in Star Trek and the one item the firmly placed the game in an alternet timeline. When the X ships are seen in the context of TMP tech in a TOS universe for SFB or TLE tech in a TMP universe for SFC they don't seem that over powered to me. Just think of them as the nuc boats of the sub world. Anything eles is just a diesel engine.

In the movie is there any point where Scotty (or someone else) lists all the super powered weapons, power systems and shields or are they just sleeker versions of what were already there?

[Lieutenant_Q]

Decker when explaining him self to Kirk.

"The Enterprise redesigned, increases Phaser power by channeling through the main engines.  When the engines went into anti-matter imbalance, the Phasers were automatically cut off."

[Rod ONeal]

Wasn't there also some mention of the shields being upgraded, which is why they handled the 1st volley from V'ger? Also, I think they said that the refit Ent. had been stripped to her frame and virtually everything was new. Sorry, I've seen the movie but not a big enough fan to have everything committed to memory.

For a real life example look at the Navy's DDX. Pretty major upgrade across the board. Weapons, stealth, etc...

[Lieutenant_Q]

I had to go over the script for a story I was writing, only real reason that comes to mind.

Yes, Sulu pointed out that the new screens held after V'Ger hit them.