Topic: Treknology: Cargo Bays  (Read 20063 times)

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2009, 07:55:50 pm »

I have noticed that it does allow the Feddies to run away quicker.

Who wouldn't run if a Klingon woman was making eyes at them?

Kirk didn't.  Remember that was TOS Klingon women not the TNG "beast" women.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2009, 08:13:03 pm »

Kirk didn't.  Remember that was TOS Klingon women not the TNG "beast" women.

In which episode did Kirk get it on with a Klingon Woman?  I think the only Klink woman featured in TOS was Kang's wife.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2009, 08:22:25 pm »
In which episode did Kirk get it on with a Klingon Woman?  I think the only Klink woman featured in TOS was Kang's wife.

Kang's wife.  Kirk didn't run away, much the opposite (Chekov too I think) but Spock stopped him from having his way with her. 

The conventional Trek trivia is that she was the only TOS Klingon woman seen but if you watch the episode (Day of the Dove) there is a 2nd one seen too, but briefly.

If you watch those two TOS Klingon women they reacted repeatedly to avoid fighting, they left it exclusively to the men.  Even under the influence of "the entity" trying to heighten their aggression.  Given that as the only example of TOS Klingon women it appears that they are not violent.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2009, 08:36:43 pm »
No.  Chekov tried to rape her as retaliation for the death of his imaginary brother.  Kirk caught him and was so angry that one of his officers was committing such a crime that he started kicking the &**( out of him until Spock stopped him.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2009, 09:31:43 pm »
No.  Chekov tried to rape her as retaliation for the death of his imaginary brother.  Kirk caught him and was so angry that one of his officers was committing such a crime that he started kicking the &**( out of him until Spock stopped him.

Its been quite a long time since I watched the episode (and then only to see if there was more than one Klingon woman shown) that I might misremember it.  I had thought that Kirk was at least "tempted" to take up where Chekov left off, but I could easily be wrong.   But still the point was that Kirk and Chekov didn't run from her, she was seen as attractive.

Maybe I'll see if I can borrow my brother-in-laws TOS DVD set and watch the series again.  ;)
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Offline marstone

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2009, 09:32:10 pm »
No.  Chekov tried to rape her as retaliation for the death of his imaginary brother.  Kirk caught him and was so angry that one of his officers was committing such a crime that he started kicking the &**( out of him until Spock stopped him.

Oh you just know Kirk was just mad that someone else was going to "get" the woman.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2009, 09:39:09 pm »
No.  Chekov tried to rape her as retaliation for the death of his imaginary brother.  Kirk caught him and was so angry that one of his officers was committing such a crime that he started kicking the &**( out of him until Spock stopped him.

Its been quite a long time since I watched the episode (and then only to see if there was more than one Klingon woman shown) that I might misremember it.  I had thought that Kirk was at least "tempted" to take up where Chekov left off, but I could easily be wrong.   But still the point was that Kirk and Chekov didn't run from her, she was seen as attractive.

Maybe I'll see if I can borrow my brother-in-laws TOS DVD set and watch the series again.  ;)

Like I said, Chekov's primary motivation wasn't sexual attraction, it was an entity induced desire for revenge.  The Klingons killed his imaginary brother, now he was going to ^&*(^ them back.  Kirk needed her unharmed to talk some sense into Kang.  There's nothing scarier than a Klingon woman.

Offline toasty0

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2009, 11:10:53 pm »
<Klingon>

Yes, any race that wears spandex and refers to it as a uniform should not be trusted with transport technology any more complicated than a two-wheeled dolly.

</Klingon>

Klinks just don't want to wear spandex because it would reveal their shortcomings.

I think it has more to do with the fact that Federation women would stare open mouthed at Klingon warriors...
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2009, 12:21:05 am »

I think it has more to do with the fact that Federation women would stare open mouthed at Klingon warriors...

Who wouldn't be mystified by the absence of something?  You can tell that the Klingons are overcompensating for something by the shape of their warships.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 01:15:28 am by knightstorm »

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2009, 07:37:53 am »
Who wouldn't be mystified by the absence of something?  You can tell that the Klingons are overcompensating for something by the shape of their warships.

The sleek, predatory, shark like shape of Klingon warships is purely practical.  It bestows unrivaled firing arcs and maneuverability on them.  How can you call it over compensating when compared to opposing vessels it is smaller?   

Consider the Federation cruiser and what it says about humans. 

Over sized (speaking of over compensating for a lack).  It bulges with luxuries the "warriors" of the Federation are not able to do without (who puts a BOWLING alley on a warship?).  Look down on the saucer from the top, a red center circle surrounded by concentric circles, a target in fact, this shows that the Federation views themselves as victims. 

Now lets consider the competence of our ship designers vs the Federation.

The D7 - a medium cruiser.  Over its life it adds how many new weapon mounts?  1?  (the ADD)

How many did the F-CA add?  2 Ph1.  2 Ph3.  An ADD.  A G-rack.  6 weapons systems added to an already over sized ship. 

The far greater increase in weapons load either shows that the Federation designers were incompetent or the crews inadequate (or both). 
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Offline toasty0

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2009, 08:53:47 am »

I think it has more to do with the fact that Federation women would stare open mouthed at Klingon warriors...

Who wouldn't be mystified by the absence of something?  You can tell that the Klingons are overcompensating for something by the shape of their warships.

No, Feddie lady, you are not mistaken, it is not a 3rd leg.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2009, 10:50:38 am »

The sleek, predatory, shark like shape of Klingon warships is purely practical.  It bestows unrivaled firing arcs and maneuverability on them.  How can you call it over compensating when compared to opposing vessels it is smaller?   

Consider the Federation cruiser and what it says about humans. 

Over sized (speaking of over compensating for a lack).  It bulges with luxuries the "warriors" of the Federation are not able to do without (who puts a BOWLING alley on a warship?).  Look down on the saucer from the top, a red center circle surrounded by concentric circles, a target in fact, this shows that the Federation views themselves as victims. 

Now lets consider the competence of our ship designers vs the Federation.

The D7 - a medium cruiser.  Over its life it adds how many new weapon mounts?  1?  (the ADD)

How many did the F-CA add?  2 Ph1.  2 Ph3.  An ADD.  A G-rack.  6 weapons systems added to an already over sized ship. 

The far greater increase in weapons load either shows that the Federation designers were incompetent or the crews inadequate (or both).
I was referring to the fact that the D-7 is kind of phallic shaped.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 01:03:26 pm by knightstorm »

Offline Lieutenant_Q

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2009, 11:28:29 am »
hmm.....    :police:

How did this get that far off topic...
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2009, 01:17:17 pm »
hmm.....    :police:

How did this get that far off topic...

The Klingon's saw Austin Powers the Spy Who Shagged Me, and decided to base all of their future warships on Dr. Evil's rocket.

Offline toasty0

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2009, 03:06:17 pm »
hmm.....    :police:

How did this get that far off topic...

Happy? :)
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Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2009, 04:59:50 pm »
RE: Cargo Bays:

I would think that the further back you go in time, the more crap had to be carried in the bays, while going forward, the crap got thinned down to large, bulky items that would not fit in a replicator to be replicated; and would also contain things that could not or otherwise would be impractical to be replicated, such as Turkey shaped Meatloaf (as mentioned), (probably boxes of instant) mashed potatoes (ST:VI), medical supplies (various episodes, the one in TNG where it turned out they were an addiction and not a cure comes to mind), former Borg drones and associated hardware (Voyager), humpback whales (ST:IV), etc...

RE: Klingons

I will now quote the great Kadh (Note: this doesn't say that Klingons are compensating for anything, just backing up a point of view.):

“It is certain the commodore will get a ship named after him at some point,” Kamarr answered.  “He was a skilled leader.”  He waited a moment before speaking again.  ‘I’ve taken a shuttlecraft.  We can use it to examine our ship more closely and see what she looks like.”

With Kamarr at the controls, the shuttlecraft rose up from Qo’onos toward the spacedock.  They were warned not to approach too closely so Kamarr steered them beneath the enclosed ship where they could study it from the bottom.  “That ship should not be called ‘she’, Kamarr commented.  “Just look at the size of its penis.  That’s a man if I ever saw one.”

“The engines make good-sized balls too,” joked Qoheleth.  Both men laughed “‘He’ it is.”  The two officers then began a more technical examination of the ship before they returned to the planet.
The woman at operations confirmed they were released immediately thereafter.  Qoheleth had been somewhat amused when Kamarr had suggested that two bridge officers be women.  “That way, we can both have an officer.  Besides, neither is a command position.”  He had refused Kamarr’s other suggestion.  “We should piss on the bridge deck somewhere and also have sex with a couple of women before we set off.  A giant penis should smell of urine and sex.”

“Shall we also make sure it has an infection?”  Qoheleth had asked.  He found his first officer’s preoccupation with sex to be amusing, but not to the point of having his ship stink.  It would smell like stale sweat all too soon.  Kamarr had joined him in laughter and the subject never arose again.

“Helm, take him out of spacedock and into orbit.” 

RE: OT stuff:
hmm.....    :police:

How did this get that far off topic...
Happy? :)

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2009, 06:09:43 pm »
I was referring to the fact that the D-7 is kind of phallic shaped.

I'm aware that you are seeing phallic symbols in an efficient warship design.  That does not mean that the designers or the crew see it that way. 

Please don't tell me what you see in Rorschach tests.  I'm quite sure it isn't what I see and I'd prefer not to know.

hmm.....    :police:

How did this get that far off topic...

Practice.  Lots and lots of practice.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2009, 06:21:02 pm »
I was referring to the fact that the D-7 is kind of phallic shaped.

I'm aware that you are seeing phallic symbols in an efficient warship design.  That does not mean that the designers or the crew see it that way. 

Please don't tell me what you see in Rorschach tests.  I'm quite sure it isn't what I see and I'd prefer not to know.


Where you see efficient warp design, I see a poorly made piece of ^&*(^.  Also, I decided to post the results of my Rorshach test because I thought the other members of the community would be proud to know that they've been a bad influence on me.

Offline Lieutenant_Q

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2009, 12:12:45 am »
Granted now this is just my personal POV, but here's how I feel that Treknology goes.

22nd Century: Galleys and Chefs for Food.  Machine Shops to build parts.

The more prestige the captain has, the better the chef, which means the more varied the food choices, the happier the crew, because the cooking is better.  The Machine Shops create parts at a very slow rate, and the quality of the part is dependent on the Engineer making the part.  Both of these methods have a lot of waste involved in them, raw materials were stored in bulk, but if you had the raw materials, you could build it.  Because Machining the appropriate repair parts took time, some critical components were made in advance and stored in the cargo bays.  You could not machine parts as needed in the middle of combat.

23rd Century: Food Selectors for Food.  Industrial Fabricators for parts.

In an attempt to raise the selection and quality of food around the fleet, the various starfleets all attempted the use of a selector.  In essence a primitive Replicator, it had a limited menu.  Which didn't make the crews all too happy.  Not nearly as much waste as involved with Galleys, but Food left over from a meal was wasted.  Industrial Fabricators could build parts faster than a Machine Shop could, but again, not fast enough for combat purposes.  You had less waste involved in the process, but the parts were still dependent on the skill of the engineer fabricating the parts.

Late 23rd Century: A return to Galleys.  The limited selection of the Replicator brought back Galleys and chefs, with all the same problems as the 22nd Century starships.

24th Century and Beyond:  Replicators

In essence 24th Century Starships carry two types of replicators.  An Industrial Replicator and a Food Replicator.  The difference between the two is almost insignificant.  An Industrial Replicator is larger, and less able to make the fine adjustments that the food replicator can make.  Its great for making Weapons, Parts, etc.  But don't ask it to make anything organic.  The Food Replicator handles the organic compounds along with minor items like plates and flatware.  The use of replicators greatly reduced the amount of waste aboard a starship, as anything that wasn't eaten, or used with the part, could be recycled back into its base component to be used later.  It would be a misconception to say that every stateroom on a starship had a replicator, rather they had special transporter transceivers that the primary replicators would use to send and receive.  Which is why it would be a relatively simply thing to order a 10 oz T-Bone steak, and then five minutes later replicate a Phaser.  The Steak is made in the food replicator and then beamed to the terminal, while the Phaser would be made in the Industrial Replicator and then beamed to the same terminal.

Granted this is the Federation Side of the things, I imagine similar developments were made in the Romulan and Klingon spheres.  Although the emphasis might have been different at times.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Treknology: Cargo Bays
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2009, 06:23:19 am »
Where you see efficient warp design, I see a poorly made piece of ^&*(^.  Also, I decided to post the results of my Rorshach test because I thought the other members of the community would be proud to know that they've been a bad influence on me.

When the undersized ship can and does defeat the larger vessel the undersized one is not the one that is poorly designed. 

Lets consider the Federation propaganda campaign against the Klingon D7.  The Federation published 2 SSDs purporting to show what happens when a F-CA and a K-D7 exchange alpha strikes at range 0.  They neglect to consider several factors.

1/  The K-D7 does not deliver its alpha strike on the forward center line like the F-CA.  It delivers it on the 60o port and starboard angles.  If you revise the damage based on this the damage allocation is far different.  The K-D7 then fires 2 more Ph-2 doing 10-12 more internals.  The Federation damage also is then split between 2 shields reducing the internal damage by 22 points.

2/ If you assume that both ships are using all their power and had competently filled their phaser capacitor before approaching and approached at the same speed the K-D7 would have 3 extra points of power (It says much that the Federation automatically assumed incompetence by their Captains).  This could be used either for ECM or shield reinforcement, either of which would reduce the damage the K-D7 took.

3/ The K-D7 can and does use its superior maneuverability to do as Kahless advised to apply their strength against the opponents weakness and compel the opponent to apply their weakness against Klingon strength.  This would apply the damage to a weaker shield on the Federation ship increasing the damage done while preventing the Federation from firing its Alpha Strike at all let alone at optimum range.  This reduces the damage received by the K-D7 while maximizing that which the F-CA takes.

4/ It doesn't allow for using the full power of the Klingon vessel by using such things as the scatter pack or T-Bombs.  The scatterpack alone would increase the internals by another 72 points.   Effective T-Bombing can add another 50 points.    Each missile and T-Bomb having its damage allocated separately this creates a very effective Mizia attack. 

So you see the K-D7 is capable of dishing out far more damage while not allowing the F-CA to use its full potential.  The fact is that those who command Klingon vessels use finesse (the Sabre Dance) vs the rush in and pound of the drunken bar room fighting of the Federation.  I suppose that the Federation using liquid courage to drive their battle "strategy" is better than if they had no courage at all.
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