Topic: Semi-SFB Strategy Game? (Now looking for Programmers)  (Read 18812 times)

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Offline FoaS_XC

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Semi-SFB Strategy Game? (Now looking for Programmers)
« on: March 29, 2009, 01:03:26 am »
I am now looking for programmers that are more talented than I am (which may not be very hard). I have found a viable, open source, engine (freeciv), but it needs some tweaking to get a more Trek feel. A post later in this tread outlines my ideas. Email me if you are interested :-)

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Hey guys,

I've been beating this idea around in my head for a few years now, and I thought I'd share it - now that ideas for my little trek universe are coming together nicely.
How excited would you folks be to see a new strategy game based off of Star Trek? Now, I'll be the first to admit that I am no programmer, but I'd love to see one done right (oh yeah, I'm a snob, too :-P).

Now we all know about Armada and BotF, but what I'm talking about is something a bit bigger. I'm talking about a galactic-sized game - take control of the whole federation, or klingon empire. As I said, I'd love to make it Semi-SFB - let's add the SFB races to the mix, too: Lyrans, Hydrans and so on; Think Sid Meier's Civ in the Trek universe. (though, I imagine battles ought to be done a bit more detailed than they do in civ, lol). Complex research trees, and empire building - trade and economics.

Now, again, I'm no programmer and I hardly know any, that being said, I'm wondering what sort of reaction the community would have should something like this be put together. Please, share your thoughts.

~Rob
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 07:36:26 am by Furyofaseraph »
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2009, 08:13:56 am »
I've always liked the idea of an SFB Universe game based on Harpoon.  The players would be allowed to edit formations, equip units, and that sort of thing.  The default settings would be sensible.  I wouldn't get involved with a technology tree, but the player should have some control over the order of battle.  A lot of tactics would have to be programed into the AI's, and weapon effects would have to be altered to balance the game.

The main emphasis would be on over-all strategy.  Players would have to position pickits, command scouts, position defencive fleets, and direct offensives.  Economies would be handled automaticly.  The player would merely be informed of what resources were needed.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2009, 11:12:56 am »
Well, hows about we combine the two aspects? Let's make it a 4x game with a very well thought out combat system.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2009, 11:30:47 am »
Well, hows about we combine the two aspects? Let's make it a 4x game with a very well thought out combat system.


There is a mod (I have not tired it) for Galactic Civilizations II for a Star Trek theme.  I would suspect that you could mod it to be more SFB like.

Link to Wiki on how to mod GalCiv II
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2009, 11:38:57 am »
Well, hows about we combine the two aspects? Let's make it a 4x game with a very well thought out combat system.


There is a mod (I have not tired it) for Galactic Civilizations II for a Star Trek theme.  I would suspect that you could mod it to be more SFB like.

Link to Wiki on how to mod GalCiv II


I saw that. I've heard very mixed things about GalCiv II. The thing that I fear from GalCiv is its limited weapons systems. Its either Missiles or Lasers (which would do fine for a few SFB races, but kind of hangs the others).

I actually just found an open-source engine: Thousand Parsec. http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/ They seem pretty serious.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2009, 12:15:51 pm »
I saw that. I've heard very mixed things about GalCiv II. The thing that I fear from GalCiv is its limited weapons systems. Its either Missiles or Lasers (which would do fine for a few SFB races, but kind of hangs the others).

Actually it has Energy Beam weapons, Particle Beam Weapons and Missiles.

Energy Beams (unmodded)
Lasers - Plasma - Phasors - Disruptors - Subspace blasters - Subspace Annihilators - Doom Ray

All 3 weapons types have similar progression through types.  A difference though is how your defenses work.   Shields are only half effective vs Particle weapons and missiles for example.  All defenses are "leakey" in that some damage may get through even with inferior weapons attacking.

Obviously it isn't a perfect match.  Barring writing a game from scratch I doubt that it can be.  The current version does however allow for custom tech trees so you might be able to put in a tree for "Plasma Races", "Photon Races" and "Disruptor Races".
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2009, 01:27:00 pm »
I actually have a copy of Galactic Civ II, but eats up too much time.  I dare not load it on another computer.  The Thousand Parsec looks much more promising for a ST mod.  I would want to limit the scope, to make a game that would last a few hours.  I'm not into long technology development scemes.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2009, 05:30:26 pm »
I just picked up the current version myself and am playing my 1st game on this edition.  They seem to have adjusted the economy as well as the tech trees.
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Offline Lepton

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2009, 06:37:27 pm »
There is also a Star Trek mod for Sins of a Solar Empire which is a 4x game.


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Offline FPF-Paladin

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 11:50:21 pm »
I have both Sins of a Solar Empire and Gal Civ II (made by same people basically)

Gal Civ II is more a strategic game.  The combat system is far simpler than Sins but that was to make the AI better able to play... and honestly I don't think I've seen a better AI, hands down.  Sins is more tactical with a strategic layer, real time combat and empire building as opposed to GCII's turn based setup.  However it's a little like comparing apples to oranges.  I love them both, play whichever one I'm in the mood for most.  I do find GCII is more epic feeling and has more depth in the long haul, but man Sins is quite an experience combat model wise.

Both have conversions, but keep in mind GCII is single player only... well there is a way around that to make it hot seat capable but that's another topic altogether.

A SFB based game similar to Harpoon would cause me to probably end up being listed VSA from lack of sleep.
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2009, 09:41:41 pm »
A SFB based game similar to Harpoon would cause me to probably end up being listed VSA from lack of sleep.

I suddenly remember a couple of lost weekends....  May it's better that nobody does this.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2009, 08:12:52 am »
The game that I could totally see myself loosing my life in would be F&E online.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2009, 09:14:59 am »
The game that I could totally see myself loosing my life in would be F&E online.

I would agree with that.  I have enjoyed F&E on a board, but a wind storm and an open window ended the general war quickly.  Oh, if only it was online.
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Offline MrBad151

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2009, 11:44:20 pm »
Several friends and I spent most of a summer playing F&E.  We would then play out any battle using SFB.  I would love to see an online version of F&E myself. 

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2009, 12:26:56 am »
Several friends and I spent most of a summer playing F&E.  We would then play out any battle using SFB.  I would love to see an online version of F&E myself.

That was what I wanted to work towards (but friends moved away so no more SFB players here).  An online version, with the option to dump the battles out would be good.

There is a few changes you would have to make to play online.  What we were working on was to break the half year turns into one month turns, so movement wasnt tough to do with the possibility of reaction and reserve movement.  Would have used movement orders and a status so you could track and follow enemy who enter your reaction zone. 

Basicly have both sides plot movement and the computer runs it, if new enemy show up do a break so a reaction can be plotted. (didn't have all the details worked out yet).  Our plan still had a human watching over to run movement as ordered.
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2009, 09:01:22 pm »
There is also a Star Trek mod for Sins of a Solar Empire which is a 4x game.

Could you give me a link to that?

Please?
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Offline FPF-Paladin

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2009, 11:59:56 pm »
I'll try to dig up a current link for it... do you have the Sins expansion pack Entrenchment?  I don't yet... I think they're updating the mod for it.
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2009, 04:56:17 am »
I didn't know they had an expansion.  I have the original however.  If it used Star Trek I think it would be even cooler!
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Offline FPF-Paladin

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2009, 12:23:28 pm »
The expansion is online only... it fleshs out the ability to lay defenses (starbases, mine fields) basically.

Wouldn't worry about it, I'm pretty sure they have a mod for the current version of Sins without the expansion, just waiting to get some kind of confirmation where it is (there are several links, so rather than lead you somewhere randomly... :P ) and any special instructions on how it's used.  I kind of want to try this myself, saw screenshots... looked awesome.  Called Sins of the Angels, based on the DS9/TNG era episode battle.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2009, 04:14:19 pm »
I would absolutely adore to see an F&E 4x game combined with SFB for tactical uses....

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Offline TheStressPuppy

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2009, 04:33:50 pm »
The expansion is online only... it fleshs out the ability to lay defenses (starbases, mine fields) basically.

Wouldn't worry about it, I'm pretty sure they have a mod for the current version of Sins without the expansion, just waiting to get some kind of confirmation where it is (there are several links, so rather than lead you somewhere randomly... :P ) and any special instructions on how it's used.  I kind of want to try this myself, saw screen shots... looked awesome.  Called Sins of the Angels, based on the DS9/TNG era episode battle.


FYI the Sins of a Solar Empire mod is called ST: Sacrifice of Angels 2. It is a continuation of the original SoA mod for Homeworld, but on the SOTSE engine. Myself (veteran SFC/Homeworld modder), and Darkshimmer of Digital Underground (MPMP for BC, Age of War for Nexus) are the mods project leads.

I originally wanted to do a Federation, and Empire type mod, but there really is no engine available that can be modded to match F&E specs. Sins comes close, but not close enough. A new game engine would have to be programmed. Plus 60's TOS era is really becoming very old hat. So we decided to do SoA2 in the post TNG era.  You can find info on the mod here. http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/342747 The mod has 5 factions (Feds, Klinks, Rommies, Dominion with breen, and cardassian units, and the Borg). Next update will only have feds, and klingons due to the mod being re-built (again) for Entrenchment.

We are currently working on an entrenchment only version. Sins mods usually break with every patch, and mods usually have to be re-built from scratch each time. So it may take a bit for the new update.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2009, 11:02:28 pm »
Good to know, StressPuppy.

I honestly would love to develop an engine capable of what's been outlined, but again, I don't have the programming skills. Anyone know a good Wargame Programming for Dummies equivalent?
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2009, 11:34:59 pm »
Thanks, do you guys have a mod history site, with different mod modifications (1.1, 1.2...etc) dependant on what version of the game we have (base vs. expansion) and whether we have it out of the box or patched?

Thx.
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Now where in the Bible does it say if someone does something stupid you should shoot them in the face?"

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2009, 12:42:24 am »
I just found me a copy of PyGame for dummies, basically... let's see where this goes, eh?
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2009, 11:31:18 am »
Here's what I'd like to see in a trek strategy game.

 - Dozens of races from all sorts of eras, but you can play them radically different, like how you can play Mayans in Empire Earth and dominate the world, but customizable as you start a game: imagine seeing the Federation as a monarchy instead of as a republic.
 - Diplomacy and Espionage much like Civilization 4, build alliances, or lull someone into a false sense of security. Sabotage key production facilities to hamper a response to your invasion.
 - Research and Production ala Civilization 4, imagine if the Federation developed cloaking tech from the very beginning, or if Hydrans researched photon torpedoes.
 - Tactical Combat like in Masters of Orion
 - Characters that augment ships or stations like in Star Wars Rebellion, or to serve as system admins, like in Masters of Orion
 - A fully customizable server, so you can set certain rules on your server. Change the entire research tree if you'd like.
 - Ship design: you start with a researched hull, and that gives you a certain number of slots. Put whatever modules you like into those slots (as your research allows). Come up with a class name and viola. Better research makes better modules, and refit your ships with upgraded modules when they are within reach of a drydock. Research into ship hulls also introduces newer hulls. an Frigate-2 is going to have more slots than a Frigate-1 hull.
 - Web-based interface - you can log into the server from a mobile source and play your turn.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 09:47:40 am by Furyofaseraph »
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"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2009, 10:41:56 am »
Can we build a REAL strategy game with a web interface that uses a D2 SQL server on the back end?  I think it can be done, I’m just not smart enough to do it.  I think we can emulate F&Eish production of ships and movements, could even include diplomacy and add other elements of the game that we hadn’t thought of before.

The biggest issue with D2 is it’s not a REAL strategy game, it’s a numbers game.  Whomever flies the most missions in the least amount of time wins and we have stats to prove this.  It makes sense to avoid PvP because it slows you down and all the “artificial” rules we’ve thrown in over the years to try to change this hasn’t accomplished much.
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Offline FPF-Paladin

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2009, 11:18:33 am »
I'm pretty sure it's very possible.  I'll toss the idea out at a few friends who are still current on SQL and see what they think.
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Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2009, 12:25:15 pm »
100% in support of the project. Unfortunately, other than VB, and a few others (I don't even know what they're called they're so old!) I've no coding skills, so I doubt I'll be able to offer more than suggestions at this time.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2009, 08:00:48 pm »
Can we build a REAL strategy game with a web interface that uses a D2 SQL server on the back end?  I think it can be done, I’m just not smart enough to do it.  I think we can emulate F&Eish production of ships and movements, could even include diplomacy and add other elements of the game that we hadn’t thought of before.

The biggest issue with D2 is it’s not a REAL strategy game, it’s a numbers game.  Whomever flies the most missions in the least amount of time wins and we have stats to prove this.  It makes sense to avoid PvP because it slows you down and all the “artificial” rules we’ve thrown in over the years to try to change this hasn’t accomplished much.

doesn't sound like the D2-based engine sounds like a good idea. I do like the idea of a web-interface, however.
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2009, 11:23:12 pm »
Did you guys know that Terradhyne has been doing an SFC type mode for A2 for a few years now prety much by himself. The Models he has made for it rock and most of them have yet to see the light of day. A2 is were I sttarted moding and while that game have some prety big flaws the community has made some great leaps forward in understanding how to tweek the game. really if they had as many programers there as SFC and BC do I don't think Star Trek would be looking for a home on another engine for strategy.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2009, 12:30:24 pm »
Did you guys know that Terradhyne has been doing an SFC type mode for A2 for a few years now prety much by himself. The Models he has made for it rock and most of them have yet to see the light of day. A2 is were I sttarted moding and while that game have some prety big flaws the community has made some great leaps forward in understanding how to tweek the game. really if they had as many programers there as SFC and BC do I don't think Star Trek would be looking for a home on another engine for strategy.

WTF is A2?
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Offline FPF-Paladin

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2009, 12:46:32 pm »
Wondering the same...
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2009, 01:47:55 pm »
He's referring to Armada 2. It's a good game, but more like Starcraft than it is like Civilization.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2009, 02:28:54 pm »
He's referring to Armada 2. It's a good game, but more like Starcraft than it is like Civilization.

i've played Armada 2, I liked it but you've got to be kidding me regarding id being close to an SFC mod.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2009, 12:10:29 pm »
Well I don't know all the particulars of the coding changes Terradyhne is making but its based on SFC2. Check out his website. I Know its very posible to rework ship physics and weapons beavior to emulate Klingon Acadamy. I've don't I don't see why a larger scale SCF-lite style of play couldn't be done.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2009, 03:00:36 pm »
He's referring to Armada 2. It's a good game, but more like Starcraft than it is like Civilization.

i've played Armada 2, I liked it but you've got to be kidding me regarding id being close to an SFC mod.

I agree. it's one thing to make a armada look like sfc/sfb, but its probably impossible to make it play like sfc/sfb
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2009, 01:12:02 pm »
Guys its an RTS not TSG like SFC. Your The Sector Fleet Admiral not a Captain or Squadron Commador. Your wouldn't want it to play just like SFC or the AI would kick your butt because you would be too busy micro managing a few ships to keep an eye on the bigger picture. The point is to stage bigger battles while retaining a simaler flavor and some universal continuity so you feel at while settling into your promotion Admiral.;)

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2009, 12:55:17 pm »
Well I just got my hands on that book, finally, and I'm sitting down to read it now.
Needless to say, a game of this magnitude is indeed quite an undertaking. I'm going to try hammering some basic data out. If I get this off the ground, anyone feel like giving me a hand?
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2009, 01:00:51 pm »
Well I just got my hands on that book, finally, and I'm sitting down to read it now.
Needless to say, a game of this magnitude is indeed quite an undertaking. I'm going to try hammering some basic data out. If I get this off the ground, anyone feel like giving me a hand?

which book you get your hands on?  Campaign designers handbook?
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2009, 01:05:24 pm »
Beginning Game Development with Python and Pygame by McGugan.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2009, 01:07:59 pm »
okay, yeah, I remember seeing that mentioned back abit ago.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2009, 01:15:21 pm »
Yeah,

this is my first forray into Python, so I'm rather excited :-)

edit

well - I just read the first 6 chapters and I can already tell that this project is going to be waaayyyy complex. To be honest I don't even know where to start. I know what I would expect of the game, of course, but I have no idea how to start making it happen.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 02:04:27 pm by Furyofaseraph »
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2009, 02:24:19 pm »
There is a game already on sale that has 90% of what is described.... it is called Space Empire V and has aspects of SFB, F&E, Homeworld, etc.

The SFB aspect is that one gains starship hull technology and fills them with boxes representing weapons, cargo, fighters, APR, etc. just like designing an SSD for SFB.

The actual battles are reminesent of Homeworld, so i 3D and so realistically graphic.

One's goal is to explore the galaxy, discover new worlds, found colonies to exploit them for revenue points, construct shipyards, starbases, etc.

And then there is the AI races also have the same goals and they have different characters of going about it.

One can name your race and AI races whatever you like, the same goes for your ship design classes that you come up with.

The economy aspect is very close to F&E, and if one ends up dragged into a protracted war with another race, "War Build" designs are a good BPV solution.

As for BPV, one's colonies earn your race a revenue points income, which has maintainance cost of the fleets, repair costs, colony maintainance and with what is left over.... you can build starships of your own design.

Designing starships is rather like an interactive SSD exercise.

As with SFB, there is ages of technology and for a costly investment, one can pay scientists to research more powerful weapons, hull construction, shields, power units, fighters, etc.

Some of the weapons are pretty good, such as the Manson Cannon and the Wave Motion Gun.

The Usual Lasers, Phasers, Disrupters, Photons, Drones, Plasmas, and about a couple of dozen other weapons of serious nastiness to play with.

Yep, Space Empire V has it all.

My tactic is to design and build a large number of small frigate hulled unarmed fast exploration ships, send out small colony ship to grab any lucrative planets and resources, and sned a slower, larger colony ship to seriously populate later.

My war tactic is to build large infiltration squadrons of frigates, with the single biggest gun I can fit in the hull and power, mix them in with other conventionally armed frigates and rampage through the enemy's territory causing as much devestaion to their economy as I can.

Of course, if playing as Humans, just infiltrating a few Corporate Bankers and Loan Assessors, and this will see the enemy's economy in meltdown.

There is also the same kitbashing and modelling aspects as with SFC, Armada and BC. There are already Star Trek patches, with all the races and ships from SFB, the TV show, B5, BSG, etc.

 
The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2009, 03:31:18 pm »
Space Empires V is a broken ass piece of garbage that has so many bugs you cant even shake a stick in space. Maybe if malfador releases another patch and fixes the numerous game breaking bugs that have been glaringly passed over, it'd be worthy of someone's time, but as is it's garbage. Plenty of potential, but totally broken. Games like 1.6 years out of the starting gate as well... wonder if it will ever be fixed. Sins of a solar empire, tho, is bad ass.

What I really want is an F&E game that allows you to run amok on the map with your ship and your buddies conducting X3 type missions in a D2 tactical engine format that wont adjust map ownership unless PvP is played using actual OoB ships that have been built and properly manuevered strategically into battle areas which are resolved via PvP fights which then adjust a map ownership, etc.

I could lose myself with that sorta setup.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2009, 04:05:40 pm »
Yeah,

this is my first forray into Python, so I'm rather excited :-)

edit

well - I just read the first 6 chapters and I can already tell that this project is going to be waaayyyy complex. To be honest I don't even know where to start. I know what I would expect of the game, of course, but I have no idea how to start making it happen.

First step, get a notebook/spiralbound/1 each  Then start writing what you want in the game.

Then break it down by the physical and logical parts.  Physical is the ships and actions that can be done to them.  Logic will be your scripts to make the physical happen.

take it in small bites.  Work on physical while learning Python.  So learn how to load and display the ships.  Build UI's (doesn't matter if the UI's you are building are the ones you want to use or not, you are learning first).  Then maybe add alittle logic to control the movement of the ships.

expand slowly as you learn.  Think in terms of the buttons and such for the logic sections (fire, arm, target, damage)  You will be writiing well over 10000 lines of code for the basic logic so get used to the stuff.

I don't know Python, it is similar to C but doesn't have hard variables.  Nice and can be nasty.

YOu want to bounce ideas, I'd be willing have them bounced off me.  I mostly know the whole SFB ruleset (doomsday edition) what I don't remember I have the books.  And the F&E ruleset also.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2009, 04:08:03 pm »
Space Empires V is a broken ass piece of garbage that has so many bugs you cant even shake a stick in space. Maybe if malfador releases another patch and fixes the numerous game breaking bugs that have been glaringly passed over, it'd be worthy of someone's time, but as is it's garbage. Plenty of potential, but totally broken. Games like 1.6 years out of the starting gate as well... wonder if it will ever be fixed. Sins of a solar empire, tho, is bad ass.

What I really want is an F&E game that allows you to run amok on the map with your ship and your buddies conducting X3 type missions in a D2 tactical engine format that wont adjust map ownership unless PvP is played using actual OoB ships that have been built and properly manuevered strategically into battle areas which are resolved via PvP fights which then adjust a map ownership, etc.

I could lose myself with that sorta setup.

what be a X3 missions?  I could like that kind of a server also.  if you don't have the PvP battle you can conduct raids into enemy space and disrupt supply and econ, but can't flip a hex.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2009, 04:11:49 pm »
Yeah,

this is my first forray into Python, so I'm rather excited :-)

edit

well - I just read the first 6 chapters and I can already tell that this project is going to be waaayyyy complex. To be honest I don't even know where to start. I know what I would expect of the game, of course, but I have no idea how to start making it happen.

First step, get a notebook/spiralbound/1 each  Then start writing what you want in the game.

Then break it down by the physical and logical parts.  Physical is the ships and actions that can be done to them.  Logic will be your scripts to make the physical happen.

take it in small bites.  Work on physical while learning Python.  So learn how to load and display the ships.  Build UI's (doesn't matter if the UI's you are building are the ones you want to use or not, you are learning first).  Then maybe add alittle logic to control the movement of the ships.

expand slowly as you learn.  Think in terms of the buttons and such for the logic sections (fire, arm, target, damage)  You will be writiing well over 10000 lines of code for the basic logic so get used to the stuff.

I don't know Python, it is similar to C but doesn't have hard variables.  Nice and can be nasty.

YOu want to bounce ideas, I'd be willing have them bounced off me.  I mostly know the whole SFB ruleset (doomsday edition) what I don't remember I have the books.  And the F&E ruleset also.

I've got a composition book or four to use for it :-). Work on foundations of the engine before the mechancis of the engine, got it. The only programming experience I've had is with MaxScript - but I think I have a firm grasp on events and variables - the UI is going to drive me up a wall, this much I am aware ;-). Drawing, redrawing...oofah. At least its going to be turn-based :-).

As far as SFB, I know that its going to be my touchstone along side Civilization 4, but I'm going to try to not be bound down to either one. :-)
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2009, 11:49:44 pm »
Hey guys, just a quick question. How long does one scenario last in SFC, as a rough number?

Having a bit of a brainstorming session, tell me what you guys thing.

There are basically two routes I'm thinking here, both require a persistent hosting server. I will call these methods type I and type II. In both cases the player (you) represent the leader of a race or faction: Federation, Klingon, LDR, what have you. Bear in mind, right now I'm only thinking about the Strategic map.

Type I) Totally turn-based. A player can send commands to vessels/fleets at any time, whether it is there turn or not, as well as design their vessels, and pick what scientific achievement they are going to research. What's important is when there turn comes around that's when they are resolved. It's almost like you can set up a queue at any time, but then the queue is only resolved when its your turn.

Type II) A Time/turn-based. Much like the dynaverse (as I am familiar with it, at least). A set period of time dictates a turn (the setting for it would be customizable within the server). For example, lets say a turn is equal to 24 hours. You can perform actions at any time, but the queue is resolved at the end of that 24 hour period.

Which would you rather get behind?

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2009, 10:52:49 am »
More late night brainstorming:

Tactical combat. Obviously at some point our warships are going to have to wage war, and rightfully so. The xenophobic tholians have a right to defend there territory, and the klingons need to expand to survive. There are basically 4 ways to go with it, I feel.

1) 2D and realtime. Basically like playing SFC now, only on a larger scale (more ships, sometimes)

2) 2D and turn-based. Think like masters of Orion's combat system

3) 3D and realtime. I think this is my favorite idea. I know it deviates from SFB rules, but oh well. Essentially, it would feel like Homeworld.

4) Pure number calculations, like Civilization. (I think its boring that way, but it would be handy in certain situations. For example: if both players agree, the combat could be resolved like this.)

there ought to be an AI override on this, as well, methinks. If a turn is 48-hours, and a battle is to occur in that turn, you either have to fight your opponent, or you can have the AI engine handle the detailed battle.

In the cases of realtime, there should be flexibility in how you control your vessels - sort of like an AI autonomy setting (though, it'd be more complex than just a slider). Essentially you can select a craft, give it waypoints to follow (and even set the orientation of the vessel; maybe you want it to roll on its side to expose its dorsal shield; but thats in the 3D case) or tell it to attack a target, or harass a target, or even assault a target (use only phasers, stay at a maximum distance but still open fire, or attack with everything you've got, respectively).

Furthermore, you can set attitudes of any vessel you select under your command. The attitude would impact how the AI behaves, as well as energy priorities. Values could range from Aggressive (power to weapons) to Defensive (power to shields) to Evasive (power to engines), and so on. There could even be degrees of those attitudes: very aggressive (divert a whole bunch of power to weapons) or just aggressive (divert some power to weapons).

On top of that you should also have the ability to have any ship under your command perform specific commands, ie: launch a scatterpack, or fire a probe, or put this specific drone in your ammo rack and fire it when I say so, or grab a target ship in a strength:5 tractor beam, etc, etc.

I'm trying to plan for some pretty intense flexibility, here, allowing you to either sit back and watch a battle (but why would you want to) only give overall commands, or get into the heap and micromanage your ships, but only to the degree you want to.



On the strategic side.
I'm thinking a detailed economic system with trade (which is affected by relations between two members, ie: if they have a trade treaty, or are just on good terms).

A diplomatic system, which would only really be handy for treaties between live players, or affecting how the different AI players think of you.

I would LOVE to see things like morale for each unit/planet. If morale gets too bad you have uprisings which affect how effective the unit is. If it gets to a certain point, the unit becomes basically unusable. If it gets really bad there is a chance that the unit will either defect to an opposing player, or declare independence/go rouge. If the unrest is locallized but severe, there is a chance that the computer will spawn a new AI player for a new affiliation, or allow a new player to come on to control it, maybe. maybe like the LDR or Maquis.

In addition to diplomacy, there is espionage: steal research from a player, or find out whats going on behind his lines, etc. Careful, there is always a chance that you'll get caught - which could severely damage any relations you might have.

Characters should play a part as well. Characters are "recruited" or "trained" at certain facilities (Starfleet Academy). They have certain skill sets, and if they are assigned to a unit, they improve the effectiveness of that unit (or even a fleet, if they have achieved the rank of admiral). Characters can also be autonomous, and perform espionage or diplomatic missions. Hell, a character can even be assigned to a research facility, decreasing the time/cost of a certain research item (imagine scotty heading the development of a new warp drive system).

I'm not sure about the details of the economic model quite yet. I don't know much about real-life economics, so any model I come up with would likely be inaccurate. I know that there should be a few different resources: Metal, Credits, Luxuries, Research, Intelligence, and Food.
Metal and credits allow construction. Credits are also the medium for trade - buy X metal for Y credits, then sell Z research for W credits. Research items cost research points. Luxuries serve to "buy" morale - if a system is unhappy, ship a bunch of luxuries over there and watch your morale climb. Intelligence is the resource you pay when going under an espionage mission. Stealing a piece of research from someone is going to cost you in Intelligence. Food serves as an upkeep - the more planets you have, the more food you're going to need to supply them.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 11:10:56 am by Furyofaseraph »
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2009, 12:47:23 pm »
Ok scince this is going to be PVP I like the time limit turns as this helps to insure that people wanting to play will devote the time they need. I also like 3D. Space is vast and any good space game not just Sar Trek should reflect that with all the benefits and problems that intails. Now somthing to consisder is pacing of tactical battle. The faster the game plays and by virture the more exciting it is the harder it will be to micro manage individual ship function. This is some thing the I think needs to be decided very early on. If the player does not have time to do these things espiecally on a fleet scale then the ship's captain and crew (AI) must do them. The more they have to do the more complex the coding required to get an AI that will satisfy the players in its competence. On the revers side if everything is micro managed and fleet size is small like in SFB then the game will have a slower pace and may prove too teadious for alot of people. Pacing is a simple thing with large and far reaching effects on the whole game system and the amount of work too be done in some areas. In my experiance AI coding is one of the hardest thing about making a PC game and the first place where game companies screw up most of the time.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2009, 07:02:36 pm »
Ok scince this is going to be PVP I like the time limit turns as this helps to insure that people wanting to play will devote the time they need. I also like 3D. Space is vast and any good space game not just Sar Trek should reflect that with all the benefits and problems that intails. Now somthing to consisder is pacing of tactical battle. The faster the game plays and by virture the more exciting it is the harder it will be to micro manage individual ship function. This is some thing the I think needs to be decided very early on. If the player does not have time to do these things espiecally on a fleet scale then the ship's captain and crew (AI) must do them. The more they have to do the more complex the coding required to get an AI that will satisfy the players in its competence. On the revers side if everything is micro managed and fleet size is small like in SFB then the game will have a slower pace and may prove too teadious for alot of people. Pacing is a simple thing with large and far reaching effects on the whole game system and the amount of work too be done in some areas. In my experiance AI coding is one of the hardest thing about making a PC game and the first place where game companies screw up most of the time.

AI is very important but since this is going to be done with a scripting lanuage and not hardcoded in, it can evolve as development goes on.  So I would let AI take a backseat until the game and interface looks good. 

The proposal looks good so far, but remember to start at the bottom and work up in the design so you don't get lost.  You can add alot of the details scripting as time goes on.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2009, 07:11:54 pm »
Space Empires V is a broken ass piece of garbage that has so many bugs you cant even shake a stick in space. Maybe if malfador releases another patch and fixes the numerous game breaking bugs that have been glaringly passed over, it'd be worthy of someone's time, but as is it's garbage. Plenty of potential, but totally broken. Games like 1.6 years out of the starting gate as well... wonder if it will ever be fixed.

I got the game around its release, and while I didn't have the kind of problems you described(actually ran fairly well on my machine) I went back to Space Empires IV after about a month or two. I hope it does get fixed though, because you're right, there's a lot of potential there.
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2009, 11:10:49 pm »
Space Empires V is a broken ass piece of garbage that has so many bugs you cant even shake a stick in space. Maybe if malfador releases another patch and fixes the numerous game breaking bugs that have been glaringly passed over, it'd be worthy of someone's time, but as is it's garbage. Plenty of potential, but totally broken. Games like 1.6 years out of the starting gate as well... wonder if it will ever be fixed.

I got the game around its release, and while I didn't have the kind of problems you described(actually ran fairly well on my machine) I went back to Space Empires IV after about a month or two. I hope it does get fixed though, because you're right, there's a lot of potential there.

sipossed to be a patch real soon... Hopefully it fixes the broken diplomacy and game breakers... I'd be all in between sins and SEV if that thing gets patched.

Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2009, 01:58:00 pm »
Ok scince this is going to be PVP I like the time limit turns as this helps to insure that people wanting to play will devote the time they need. I also like 3D. Space is vast and any good space game not just Sar Trek should reflect that with all the benefits and problems that intails. Now somthing to consisder is pacing of tactical battle. The faster the game plays and by virture the more exciting it is the harder it will be to micro manage individual ship function. This is some thing the I think needs to be decided very early on. If the player does not have time to do these things espiecally on a fleet scale then the ship's captain and crew (AI) must do them. The more they have to do the more complex the coding required to get an AI that will satisfy the players in its competence. On the revers side if everything is micro managed and fleet size is small like in SFB then the game will have a slower pace and may prove too teadious for alot of people. Pacing is a simple thing with large and far reaching effects on the whole game system and the amount of work too be done in some areas. In my experiance AI coding is one of the hardest thing about making a PC game and the first place where game companies screw up most of the time.

AI is very important but since this is going to be done with a scripting lanuage and not hardcoded in, it can evolve as development goes on.  So I would let AI take a backseat until the game and interface looks good. 

The proposal looks good so far, but remember to start at the bottom and work up in the design so you don't get lost.  You can add alot of the details scripting as time goes on.

I'm not an expert but if you cna do that with the AI that would be somthing that really give this kind of game longevity because as PCs upgrade to do more you could upgrade AI to make it better too.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2009, 02:32:51 pm »
Space Empires V is a broken ass piece of garbage that has so many bugs you cant even shake a stick in space. Maybe if malfador releases another patch and fixes the numerous game breaking bugs that have been glaringly passed over, it'd be worthy of someone's time, but as is it's garbage. Plenty of potential, but totally broken. Games like 1.6 years out of the starting gate as well... wonder if it will ever be fixed. Sins of a solar empire, tho, is bad ass.

What I really want is an F&E game that allows you to run amok on the map with your ship and your buddies conducting X3 type missions in a D2 tactical engine format that wont adjust map ownership unless PvP is played using actual OoB ships that have been built and properly manuevered strategically into battle areas which are resolved via PvP fights which then adjust a map ownership, etc.

I could lose myself with that sorta setup.
I would love a game like that, myself. I saw Sins of a Solar Empire for $15.00 at Target. Might see if that single copy is still there when I go out later. Thanks for the tip!
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2009, 10:55:18 pm »
A warning about Sins of a Solar Empire:  You have to have 128 Mbytes of video memory.  I made the mistake of picking it up, but the menus won't appear on my laptop.  Ooops!
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Offline Calexandre

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2009, 10:00:23 pm »
I don't think any game could possibly recreate the complexity of SFB/C. SE V was to me, a flop because all the AI did was spam fighters and poorly designed frigates at you.

I did give a point in favour of Nexus: The Jupiter Incident as a 3D tactical game with simulation elements but it was too fast paced and basic (read: way too easy to master) to be an actual tactical exercise. All you needed to do was stock up on 2 weapon types and hit the right buttons.

Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2009, 01:29:08 pm »
Well Space Empire 2 was a simple but addictive shareware game written in VB300 aimed at those that liked empire building coupled with exploration.

The AI in SE 5 does need a smarter AI, but then again, so do a majority of games out there.

I've played around with AI for years now, mainly for robotics, etc. and always worked on the proemise that we all learn from making and analysing mistakes, preferably those of others, in my case.

I've written quite a few self learning AI programmes for robots over the years.

There is one AI game, namely "Supreme Commander", which tries a strategy out, if it seems to be payijng off, keeps going. If it doesn't seem to be working, aborts the attack and tries something else.

The AI keeps players on their toes.

The game music is also brilliant.

Hopefully SE 6 will be an improvement on the AI.

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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2009, 04:38:38 pm »
I am still plugging away at learning python - however, someone has suggested to me that I make a Civilization 4 mod based off of Federation & Empire.... it has merit, methinks.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2009, 10:58:52 pm »
On second thought - I grabbed a demo of Space Empires V - looks very promising...

Still deciding what I want to do >.<
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2009, 08:07:30 pm »
On second thought - I grabbed a demo of Space Empires V - looks very promising...

Still deciding what I want to do >.<

Not as promising as I thought. I'm still probably best off writing my own game :-(
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2009, 01:03:45 pm »
If you are going to use python you might want to talk to the guys over on BCC. BC use python for alot of its scripting and they might be able to give you some coding shortcuts.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #62 on: May 15, 2009, 01:20:26 am »
I have found my blessing: Freeciv (www.freeciv.org) its completely open source and nice and simple. I just started playing with it tonight, but I know absolutely nothing of compiling source code.

It's 2am here, so what I am going to do is grab some shut-eye, wake up early tomorrow, and start hammering away at figuring out how to make a viable system out of this. Is anyone interested in joining forces?
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Offline marstone

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #63 on: May 15, 2009, 06:14:05 am »
hmm, going to check out the website.  This might be a good base for a F&E style game, how is it set up for multi-player?
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #64 on: May 15, 2009, 07:56:15 am »
It can handle multiplayer over lan, and over the internet. You can also do a hotseat, sort of.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #65 on: May 15, 2009, 02:14:22 pm »
I've got the source code, and I'm trying to learn how to compile an unaltered version before I start looking into how to change the code.
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Offline marstone

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #66 on: May 15, 2009, 03:11:07 pm »
what compiler do you have?
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #67 on: May 15, 2009, 03:15:59 pm »
what compiler do you have?

I guess MinGW and Cygwin - its what they recommend. I'm just sort of new at it all >.<
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Offline marstone

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2009, 03:22:17 pm »
what compiler do you have?

I guess MinGW and Cygwin - its what they recommend. I'm just sort of new at it all >.<

finished downloading the source myself now, going to start to peek at it alittle.  (find it nice that they have a folder telling how to compile for the amiga).  MinGw would be my guess as a good one to use, also will probably will have to download openGL for the graphics.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2009, 03:23:31 pm »
what compiler do you have?

I guess MinGW and Cygwin - its what they recommend. I'm just sort of new at it all >.<

finished downloading the source myself now, going to start to peek at it alittle.  (find it nice that they have a folder telling how to compile for the amiga).  MinGw would be my guess as a good one to use, also will probably will have to download openGL for the graphics.

OpenGL isn't needed - from what I can tell. You'll need GTK+2 though
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2009, 04:14:45 pm »
Here's the way I see it, 90% of the mechanics are perfect. There are only a few things I would add, some of which might just be doable with current mechanics - but some of it is going to need alterations to the source code, I think.

1) Ship Workshop. Sort of like Alpha Centauri - you can mix and match what componants you have on a classes hardpiont. A vessel can have certain hardpoints (like in SFC3) and differing components will change how the ship behaves in combat.
a) Hull types: fighters, gunships (sfb PFs), corvettes, frigates, destroyers, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, battlecruisers, dreadnaughts, and battleships.
b) each hull type as an iteration: gunship I is the most primitive of the gunships, whereas gunship VI is the most advanced.
c) each hull type (and iteration) has a certain number of slots for differing systems
d) slots
   i) there are several types of slots: primary weapons, secondary weapons, tertiary weapons, engines, hull systems, and more
   ii) weapons increase attack power (or defensive power in certain cases, like the Plasma-D)
   iii) shields increase hitpoints
   iv) armor, sensors, and engines increase defense
   vi) warp engines increases speed on the game map
   vii) sensors also help detect cloaked vessels, etc.
e) designs should be savable
f) once you research a better component you should be able to upgrade the component on a vessel thats already in the field (if its in a system that has a drydock). However, you should not be able to upgrade a Lightcruiser I to a Lightcruiser II (unless you have a specialized research; which should be different for each hull and for each upgrade)
2) Characters
a) characters should be able to gain experience and have there skills get better
b) a character can be assigned to a ship or a system and when they are at such a place, their skills improve the effect of the unit (or fleet if there skill is high enough) that they are assigned to.
3) Renaming of units (You should be able to call a specific Heavy Cruiser the "USS Enterprise")

Obviously the biggest thing is the Starship Workshop. I'm fairly certain that the characters can be done inside the existing engine. The renaming thing I'm not so sure on.
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"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2009, 05:30:37 pm »
what compiler do you have?

I guess MinGW and Cygwin - its what they recommend. I'm just sort of new at it all >.<

finished downloading the source myself now, going to start to peek at it alittle.  (find it nice that they have a folder telling how to compile for the amiga).  MinGw would be my guess as a good one to use, also will probably will have to download openGL for the graphics.

hey marstone - have you had any luck compiling? when I ever I try it's riddling me with errors.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2009, 07:11:34 pm »
I have no figured out how to complile the source code.... now its on to teaching myself C/C++ T___T
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Offline marstone

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2009, 08:15:09 pm »
I have no figured out how to complile the source code.... now its on to teaching myself C/C++ T___T

good luck with it.  I haven't tried to compile it yet, got four different compilers to try.  At the moment I am still working on getting some print outs to study for the Q3 stuff.  It might take a day or two to get a good look at this code yet.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #74 on: May 15, 2009, 08:54:13 pm »
This is the procedure I went through to get a working compilation

Quote
I am going to go for the MinGW and MSYS this time to build a GTK client.
I will edit as I go through the entire procedure.

1 ) I installed MinGW with just the base files to the directory C:\devel\mingw\
2 ) I have added the GNU Libiconv to the C:\devel\mingw\ directory
3 ) I have added the GTK+ Bundle (v 2.14.6) to the C:\devel\mingw\ directory.
4 ) I have installed MSYS (saying yes to both prompts) to C:\devel\msys\
5 ) I have installed MSYS-DTK to C:\devel\msys\
6 ) I have unpacked the source of Freeciv (v 2.1.9) to C:\devel\msys\home\Rob\freeciv\ (should the "Rob" be there or should it just be in the "home" directory)
7 ) in MSYS i go to the directory "/home/rob/freeciv"
8 ) in MSYS I type "./autogen.sh --enable-client=gtk-2.0"

It gives me an error about not having gettext... so much for the GTK bundle...

9 ) I have installed the GTK+ Bundle (v 2.16.1) to the C:\devel\mingw\ directory.
Note: It seems as though using the v2.16.1 of the bundle solved my gettext problem. It looked like it configured properly.
10 ) in MSYS I type "make" (don't see any errors)
11 ) in MSYS I type "make install"

That seems to have worked... damned on that I couldn't get Cygwin to work.


All the links can be found on here: http://freeciv.wikia.com/index.php/Install-Windows
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 11:59:49 am by Furyofaseraph »
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2009, 12:30:40 am »
All this is a bit beyond me but it looks like you are making some progress I think :D

Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #76 on: May 16, 2009, 11:59:09 am »
I think its more that we are making progress on what's a possibility - not really progress on the actual project.
As I said - I lack programming skills - but I'm a fairly decent artist and I have some (what I think are pretty good) ideas. This is why I'm hellbent on recruitment. I can handle most (if not all) of the graphical stuff (I think it should be kept really simple, anyways). and I've already started putting together a research tree, and a list of ship components (most of which I am actually gleaning from Smiley Lich's SFB page).

Also, a list of empires I would want to make.
    * United Federation of Planets
    * Klingon Empire
    * Romulan Empire
    * Gorn Confederacy
    * Lyran Empire
    * Hydran Kingdoms
    * Mirak Star League / Kzinti Hegemony
    * Interstellar Concordium
    * Tholian Holdfast
    * Seltorian Tribunal
    * Triaxian Repbulic
    * Frax Alliance
    * Cardassian Union
    * Son'a Ascendancy
    * Talarian Repbulic
    * Ferengi Alliance
    * Vudar Enclave
    * Lyran Democratic Republic (since these guys are an offshoot of the Lyrans, I don't know if they will be added to the mod)
    * Sheliak Corporate
    * Peladine Republic
    * Bajoran Alliance
    * Breen Confederacy
(now, this is all alpha/beta quadrant stuff, if we want to do a galaxy-spanning game, we'd have to add more and fill in a LOT of gaps in the delta and gamma quadrants. Furthermore, we'd have to find a way to balance the borg - not something I'm looking forward to) so I'd say we keep it to alpha/beta for now.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2009, 12:59:51 pm by Furyofaseraph »
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #77 on: May 16, 2009, 12:56:27 pm »
I have started a thread on the FreeCiv forums which will outline what I have in mind (LINK). I will also update this thread with the same data.
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"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #78 on: May 16, 2009, 01:44:01 pm »
If you can find it the Campain designers handbook and the Tactics manual for SFB should be alot of help. My copies are in storage right now but if I get a chance to get them out I'll post anything of use I find.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #79 on: May 16, 2009, 01:46:34 pm »
If you can find it the Campain designers handbook and the Tactics manual for SFB should be alot of help. My copies are in storage right now but if I get a chance to get them out I'll post anything of use I find.


I have a PDF of the second release of the Designers Handbook. It has some interesting things, to be sure, but I plan on using SFB as a mere touchstone, not as a design bible.

btw, just for fun - a TMP romulan logo. took me 5 minutes :-)

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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #80 on: May 16, 2009, 05:58:19 pm »
Alright folks, I've got, in my hot little hands, the sourcecode for the old FreeCiv Alpha Centauri project. Unfortunately it is way out of date, so I can't really copy it over and call it good :-/, but I am hoping that once I figure out what is going on - I'll be able to integrate in the Unit Workshop.
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Offline marstone

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #81 on: May 16, 2009, 08:09:42 pm »
looking through some of the code for the freeciv2.1.9.  there is alot of rewriting to be done to change it around.  Doable.  Tho, alot of work.  Been slowly looking in the files to see what they do.  Will not be a quick convert.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #82 on: May 16, 2009, 08:17:18 pm »
I think these three files might be handy
http://freecivac.sourceforge.net/patches/AC-base-20030724.patch
http://freecivac.sourceforge.net/patches/impr-gen-20030724.patch
http://freecivac.sourceforge.net/patches/newcompounds-20030724.patch

Now that patches a very old version of FreeCiv - so its out of date, but the language is mostly already there. They say in the description, the only problems are the fact that all the empires can see all the designs, otherwise the unit-builder is solid. All that I need to do is integrate it into the newer engine and adapt it to use in this.

Edit: I'm sorry I should be clear - these patches added the Unit Workshop (or compound units) and the Compound Government system to an old version of freeciv. We don't need the compound government - at least, not yet - the basic civics will do for now.
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game? (Now looking for Programmers)
« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2009, 02:04:01 pm »
This may be geting ahead of your self here but have you checked how weapons tracking works here? A problem I found in A2 is that the weapons arc comand is usless because it always defualts to 000.0 as the center of the arc no mater what direction the hardpoint is rotated to face. I would hat to see a simmalar problem here.

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game? (Now looking for Programmers)
« Reply #84 on: May 19, 2009, 01:57:26 pm »
Starfox, I don't follow you. Freeciv is an open-source clone to Civilization. If you've never played that go download a demo (or even Freeciv). there is no tactical combat - but just strategic combat.
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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game? (Now looking for Programmers)
« Reply #85 on: May 26, 2009, 12:39:15 pm »
So, is anyone interested in helping me tear apart this source code?
As I said I have the code to an older mod that integrated a lot of gameplay elements that I am looking for, but it will not work on more recent builds. I also, have no problem helping out with art, but I cannot program to save my life.
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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game? (Now looking for Programmers)
« Reply #86 on: May 26, 2009, 02:06:11 pm »
Only if you can read a Jackson Structure as that was how I was taught to tear apart code into meaningful diagrams and charts.

The trick is to get into the head of the original programmer, then you'll be able to see his individual style of coding.

If there is more than one contributer hen it helps in seperating out who did what and where.

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline FPF-Paladin

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2009, 12:01:04 am »
The expansion is online only... it fleshs out the ability to lay defenses (starbases, mine fields) basically.

Wouldn't worry about it, I'm pretty sure they have a mod for the current version of Sins without the expansion, just waiting to get some kind of confirmation where it is (there are several links, so rather than lead you somewhere randomly... :P ) and any special instructions on how it's used.  I kind of want to try this myself, saw screen shots... looked awesome.  Called Sins of the Angels, based on the DS9/TNG era episode battle.


FYI the Sins of a Solar Empire mod is called ST: Sacrifice of Angels 2. It is a continuation of the original SoA mod for Homeworld, but on the SOTSE engine. Myself (veteran SFC/Homeworld modder), and Darkshimmer of Digital Underground (MPMP for BC, Age of War for Nexus) are the mods project leads.

I originally wanted to do a Federation, and Empire type mod, but there really is no engine available that can be modded to match F&E specs. Sins comes close, but not close enough. A new game engine would have to be programmed. Plus 60's TOS era is really becoming very old hat. So we decided to do SoA2 in the post TNG era.  You can find info on the mod here. http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/342747 The mod has 5 factions (Feds, Klinks, Rommies, Dominion with breen, and cardassian units, and the Borg). Next update will only have feds, and klingons due to the mod being re-built (again) for Entrenchment.

We are currently working on an entrenchment only version. Sins mods usually break with every patch, and mods usually have to be re-built from scratch each time. So it may take a bit for the new update.


Sorry about getting the name wrong.. I hadn't downloaded it myself when I posted.

However, I did get 0.03b (I don't have entrenchment) and what a blast!  I handily won a 4v4 locked teams in a large galaxy, chose to continue when I won... and attacked the pirate base.  Booooy was I surprised by what was waiting for me there  :o
~Life cannot find reasons to sustain it, cannot be a source of decent mutual regard, unless each of us resolves to breathe such qualities into it. ~

Offline FPF-Paladin

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game?
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2009, 12:02:31 am »
The expansion is online only... it fleshs out the ability to lay defenses (starbases, mine fields) basically.

Wouldn't worry about it, I'm pretty sure they have a mod for the current version of Sins without the expansion, just waiting to get some kind of confirmation where it is (there are several links, so rather than lead you somewhere randomly... :P ) and any special instructions on how it's used.  I kind of want to try this myself, saw screen shots... looked awesome.  Called Sins of the Angels, based on the DS9/TNG era episode battle.


FYI the Sins of a Solar Empire mod is called ST: Sacrifice of Angels 2. It is a continuation of the original SoA mod for Homeworld, but on the SOTSE engine. Myself (veteran SFC/Homeworld modder), and Darkshimmer of Digital Underground (MPMP for BC, Age of War for Nexus) are the mods project leads.

I originally wanted to do a Federation, and Empire type mod, but there really is no engine available that can be modded to match F&E specs. Sins comes close, but not close enough. A new game engine would have to be programmed. Plus 60's TOS era is really becoming very old hat. So we decided to do SoA2 in the post TNG era.  You can find info on the mod here. http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/342747 The mod has 5 factions (Feds, Klinks, Rommies, Dominion with breen, and cardassian units, and the Borg). Next update will only have feds, and klingons due to the mod being re-built (again) for Entrenchment.

We are currently working on an entrenchment only version. Sins mods usually break with every patch, and mods usually have to be re-built from scratch each time. So it may take a bit for the new update.


Sorry about getting the name wrong.. I hadn't downloaded it myself when I posted.

However, I did get 0.03c (I don't have entrenchment) and what a blast!  I handily won a 4v4 locked teams in a large galaxy, chose to continue when I won... and attacked the pirate base.  Booooy was I surprised by what was waiting for me there  :o
~Life cannot find reasons to sustain it, cannot be a source of decent mutual regard, unless each of us resolves to breathe such qualities into it. ~

Offline Tulwar

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game? (Now looking for Programmers)
« Reply #89 on: June 03, 2009, 12:14:36 am »
Just a note:  The thing I don't like about Galactic Civilizations and such is the insistence on managing one's economy, technology and such.  I would prefer a game where this sort of thing was completely automated.  I do not enjoy getting bogged down in deciding what technologies to pursue or designing ships during a campaign.  Maybe, there could be simple options, requiring a deep shiplist, but after playing GalCivII, I find it a pain in the butt.
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline EmeraldEdge

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Re: Semi-SFB Strategy Game? (Now looking for Programmers)
« Reply #90 on: June 03, 2009, 12:22:57 am »
or have a setting that allows the AI to handle that stuff, unless you want to.  Best of both worlds.  I believe I've seen a few games that do that.