Topic: another SFB question (Read 6351 times)

FoaS_XC · « **on:** March 25, 2009, 04:38:49 pm »

I should probably just keep a thread going to post all of my SFB questions in >.< This one is fairly simple, I just can't seem to find it in the basic rules set anywhere.

What Y-Year was the Ph-2 replaced with the Ph-1?

Nemesis · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2009, 05:39:42 pm »

It isn't listed because there was no such year.

Consider the Klingon D7. It started with all Ph II. Later they replaced the bow Ph II with Ph I. Only when the X Ships came out were Ph II abandoned.

Basically they are both the same weapon. The Ph II is merely a Ph I made more cheaply and is therefore less accurate resulting in reduced damage.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2009, 05:51:32 pm »

Ah

I was under the impression that the ph1 came along and totally replaced the ph2 all around.

In that case, what Y-Year did the ph1 come around at all? (aside from the tholians, they've had it for a while)

Nemesis · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2009, 08:10:30 pm »

Look at the earliest ships of the various races. The Feds used it on their original CL. The Romulans even used it on their Warbird, both of those were conversions from sublight ships. The Mirak/Kzinti used it as well as Ph III.

Only a few races made any real use of Ph II at all. The Klingons and I believe the Hydrans as well. Beyond those I'm not sure if anyone did (on mainstream warships). It was an economy measure. The Klingons could put more firepower on a ship by using the cheaper Ph II than if they used Ph I so that is what they did. Command ships were given SOME Ph I.

As their economy improved they began upgrading their ships with more Ph I to increase long range firepower, a cheap effective upgrade. Since the weapons were basically the same changing out a few subsystems was all that needed to be done to do the upgrade, simple and quick. No need to change other systems such as power or add new weapon mounts to improve the ship design.

Those who used Ph I had to add weapon mounts to existing designs and beef up power systems when they chose to upgrade. More expensive and more difficult than the Klingon upgrade path. The Romulans had to totally redesign their fleet and do new production. The Lyran's had to convert their catamaran designs to trimaran to get them enhanced.

Compare the number of system boxes added to the F-CA as it was upgraded step by step to the K-D7 - K-D7B - K-D7K. I think that you will find that the Klingon's didn't have to change the number of weapon or power systems nearly as much. They tended to add more auxiliary systems like tractors and transporters.

MrBad151 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2009, 10:07:09 pm »

If memory serves, a Phaser I is a Phaser II with an upgraded targeting system. Cost was one consideration for the number of Phasers I on a ship. Klingons has numerous ships they had to put phasers on, while on the other hand, Lyrans has far less ships, so they could afford to use Phaser I s. Hydrans had cost issues as well. Being as isolated as they were and far fewer planets for resources made them resort to using Phaser II in the beginning. The Hydrans limited resources also explains why they use so many attrition units like fighters.

marstone · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:36:44 am »

Quote from: MrBad151 on March 25, 2009, 10:07:09 pm

If memory serves, a Phaser I is a Phaser II with an upgraded targeting system. Cost was one consideration for the number of Phasers I on a ship. Klingons has numerous ships they had to put phasers on, while on the other hand, Lyrans has far less ships, so they could afford to use Phaser I s. Hydrans had cost issues as well. Being as isolated as they were and far fewer planets for resources made them resort to using Phaser II in the beginning. The Hydrans limited resources also explains why they use so many attrition units like fighters.

Yes according to the SFB history data. A phaser 1 and a phaser 2 are the same at the emitter end, it is the targeting computer part that is different. As for the old sublight fed CL using them and the Romulan Warbird having them (also a sublight convert), they were added to the design around the time the ship was converted to warp. They had lasers as weapons before that time.

As for when the Ph-1 started, I'd have to check my books. But basicly the Ph-1 has been around as long as the warp powered ships have been.

Czar Mohab · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2009, 07:44:39 am »

Oy! Some of the answers are... Interesting...

Ph-1's are available to the Tholians (always), Vulcans (always), and the Jindarians (yep-always) (see the comment about bases below, EVERYONE had Ph-1's! These guys just make the most use of them).

Tholians are extra galactic, so they don't count.

Year in Service of the Vulcan Cruiser/Destroyer of the early years is Y1... so from a normal SFB POV, Ph-1's are around from Y1, however, it is said that they had the things even before that. Just no Y year.

HOWEVER, Being that they are beyond ancient, the Jindarians had been around more or less forever, with their Ph-1's. Thus, Ph-1's are old. Really old. But I don't like to count the Jindi's in the early years; so looks like Y1 is the Y year, just realize that it is just a friendly way to assign an arbitrary date to something that was around for an undisclosed amount of time.

Don't forget that most bases had Ph-1's instead of Ph-4's, since those really didn't "fit" the period (in terms of technology, cost, or whatever). Ph-1's became the weapon of the "new age" in ~Y126 when the F-CA's started appearing.

The Romulan Warbird had Warp Targeted Lasers until ~Treaty of Smarba. The Fed YCL ("Old" CL) had Ph-2's from day one (~Y88), not getting Ph-1's until it became "old"(~Y140?). The F-WCL (from which the F-YCL, and later F-CL are derrived, is shown with Ph-2's, but could have been with lasers pre-tactical warp, but isn't clearly stated specifically to this class, just a generic blurb about lasers being pre-(tactical) warp... which is why the Romulans don't have much of anything else.

Czar "Does that help?" Mohab

marstone · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:13:47 am »

one problem you have when compairing races weapons is that it states a few times in the rules that a weapon isn't the same, but the damage chart matches so they are listed the same, so a Ph-1 from the Jindarians might be a different weapon from the galactic Ph-1 but does the same damage so as to not add more they just used a Ph-1 (as nothing would be added to the game putting in new weapons that do the same damage as an existing one).

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:50:32 am »

Czar that was most helpful, actually.

My next question is simple: what year does the "Early Years" begin and end at?
Does anyone know when the Lyrans started using their ESG? I see in the early years that they have a more primitive version, but it doesnt say when it started being used, NOR does it mention when the standard ESG started its run either.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2009, 03:39:43 pm »

I beleive the range of years that the "Early Years" start and end is between Y70 to Y120 (roughly). In this time period, a lot of races either started developing "standard" systems you see later during the "middle years" (like longer range Transporters for example) and better weapon systems (better speed drones for example). Most have already stated the development of the Phaser-2 to the Phaser-1, both have always been around by some race (the Tholians, Vulcans, and Jindarians had them first in this part of the Galaxy) but all races were able to develope similar Phaser-1's on there Bases during the Early years. And as stated, the Phaser-1 is esentially similar to a Phaser-2, but its more energy effeicent and has better targeting then the Phaser-2.

If X2 ships are ever introduced in the future, the next generation of Phasers (whatever that might be) would probably be similar to how the Phaser-2 developed into the Phaser-1.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, some Klingon ships did receive refits of Phaser-1's (Command ships mostly), it just wasn't until the General War that they made it a standard refit on all ships.

As for the Early ESG, I don't know, I would need to look that up aswell.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2009, 06:13:13 pm »

Does anyone know why they came up with silly names for the Plasmas? Plasma-R (romulan?) Plasma-G (Gorn?) Plasma-D (Defensive?), what about the plasma-F, Plasma-M, and Plasma-L?

Seems odd that they kept jumping around, thats all.

Nemesis · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2009, 07:06:48 pm »

Plasma R - Romulan
Originally only Romulan ships had these. Only the largest of ships and the Warbird hull ships in the beginning

Plasma S - Swivel Mount (Originally G 2 or G II)
The Plasma S was originally the only plasma mounted with a swivel allowing 120^o firing arc instead of only 60^o as all others had at the time. It substantially improved the ability of both the Gorn and Romulan to plasma ballet. An upgrade by the Gorn to their G launchers and later copied by the Romulans.

Plasma G - Gorn
Originated by the Gorn and later imitated by the Romulan. Often downloaded as an F as its loaded faster, cheaper and has nearly as much range and at close ranges the same damage.

Plasma F - Fixed (no holding cost)
The Plasma F when loaded natively is encased in a stasis field leaving it "fixed in time", no time passes for it until it is fired and therefore there is effectively no holding cost.

Plasma D - Drone (it functioned more as a drone even to having racks)
Sort of a cut down Plasma F mounted in a drone like cartridge. It was treated as a drone for firing capability and could be used either offensively or defensively. A killer against early slow fighters but over kill against Type I drones.

Plasma I - ISC
A specially mounted Plasma F used by the ISC as a rear defense for cutting down ships/PFs/Fighters that penetrated the Eschelon.

Plasma M - ? (X Plasma I forget its characteristics)
I'm not much for X ships and forget the abilities of the M.

Plasma L - ? (X Plasma I forget its characteristics)
I'm not much for X ships and forget the abilities of the L.

One of the X plasmas slowed you down when it hit the other?? I'm not sure at all about them.

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #12 on:** March 27, 2009, 12:50:27 am »

The Plasma E was a Gorn X2 weapon that slowed you down 5 points upon impact. I don't have enough experience with them to know if it only happened when it hits hull (As with the Heavy Phaser B).

The Plasma X was a Romulan X2 weapon that traveled faster than the standard Plasma.

Both weapons have the same characteristics as the Plasma S, but could not be shotgunned or enveloped. I don't believe either of these Plasmas are from SFB, but rather are a Taldren creation. (I could be wrong though)

marstone · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2009, 04:55:35 am »

from my SFB days I don't remember a plasma torp that would slow you down, there was a simulator weapon that did it tho.

As for the X plasma that moves faster then normal, SFB did add a plasma sabot to the game for X tech. It moved faster then speed 31, but I haven't fully read the rules on that one.

Nemesis · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2009, 08:06:40 am »

Quote from: marstone on March 27, 2009, 04:55:35 am

from my SFB days I don't remember a plasma torp that would slow you down, there was a simulator weapon that did it tho.

As for the X plasma that moves faster then normal, SFB did add a plasma sabot to the game for X tech. It moved faster then speed 31, but I haven't fully read the rules on that one.

You are right

. The X Torpedo I was thinking of was SFC not SFB, they were Taldren creations.

I never did like the X Ships, they are too "Uber". I prefer ships that have weaknesses along with their strengths. In the real world you never get only strengths there is always a weakness.

Czar Mohab · « **Reply #15 on:** March 27, 2009, 06:06:32 pm »

I don't know the "official" designation of Plasma M and L, but I would go with:

Plas-M (Midway) - Midway between Plas-R and Plas-S in damage. Big like a Plas-R (same charge cost), Swively like an S type (same LP/FP/RP arcs). Orion (X-ships) can use (is a 3 space weapon). X-ships can repair an R type as an M type, but a non X-ship cannot.

Plas-L (Longer F) - Can arm G (not EPT or Shotgun) or F types, either under standard rules/costs/etc (which includes X-ship fast loads). A type L Launcher retains the type F stasis and holds for 0 cost, meaning a type L (G) or F holds for free.

An enveloping type G can be confused for a standard type M due to the same warhead strength, unless the specific launch tube was spotted or the torpedo's traveled enough to observe warhead degradation (I see a huge tactical benifit to this... especially if you launched an EPT G from an M tube from close range: "Captain, sensors indicate it is just a Type M" "Very well, reinforce shield 2 and keep #5 turned away until we get it back up; brace for impact!" *boom* "... "Sir! Damage across all shields! Hull breach on decks 2 through 5..."

).

There is no "designated" time of the early years. There are so many defining points that one could say Y80-120 or Y60-135 or Y1-145... for the most part you can consider the begining around the time Y series ships started appearing (not the W series, they fit more properly into the sublight-to-early years transitional time, much like the End of the General War classes serve as a transition from war time to X-Tech) in about Y80 and lasts until ships like the D6 (Y120) appeared. According to (Y0.0) you should consider the period as Y80-120, and with some tweaking can go as broad as Y67-135.

ESGs showed up on Lyran Y series hulls in their lesser form (0-1 radius, no capacitor, etc.) and were not replaced until the "normal" Lyran hulls entered service in the Y120's (these having "normal" ESGs). Well, they weren't replaced, the Y series still carried the restricted form while the newer ships had the newer form.

Sabot torpedoes were introduced in R10. Starting at Y180, any plasma ship can have this refit (all X-ships have this pre-installed). Makes for a speed 40 plasma with a higher power cost and many restrictions. R10 also added ECM plasma (uses PPT like an ECM drone, but you only get the one (or 2 if X-ship)) (Y168 with various advances over the years), and plasma carronade (Y165 Gorn, Y170 Orion, Y175 WYN and Federation, Type F only, ISC and Roms never got it), this being esentially a short range plasma bolt that can be fired as often as once per turn or held (using the 1+1+3 arming cycle of the F and firing as a carronade) with each point past the first being added to the damage; max range is 5, max damage is (with +4 power to it) is 8.

Czar "Hope that helps" Mohab

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2009, 11:38:21 pm »

I have decided to basically disregard the entire SFB timeline in favor of coming up with my own. I'm basically running a campaign on paper to see how things turn out. I even have a research tree coming along if anyone is interested in seeing it - So far I just have the phasers (which I have changed the names of to be slighly more canon than SFB-esque). I'm adding distruptor tech into the mix as we speak.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:44:40 pm »

Suppose I were to run a complex campaign. As I mentioned in my last post, I want to use things like research trees. Does anyone know a program which might help me organize some of this? ie: what race has researched what? What can they research next? What do all their planets and colonies produce as far as resources?

marstone · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:53:24 pm »

Check out the campaign designers handbook for SFB, it has tech trees and such in it for the weapons systems.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:57:44 pm »

I have that book, and thats where I got the idea.

What I'm wondering is if there are any programs out there to help me keep track of campaign data.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2009, 03:09:02 pm »

Any programmers feel like taking on a small project?

marstone · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2009, 05:18:40 pm »

no programs set up for that as I know, a DB file might be modified to do it.

Would help but not a programmer anymore. Having plenty of trouble doing the coding for my Q3 work. But can bounce ideas this way, I was looking at doing the same thing a few years ago. But didn't have the time to do it. (did all the work on paper, very slow)

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2009, 08:59:40 pm »

haha. I have found a program called VASSAL. It was designed to play wargames over the internet. I have since adapted it to my use :-).
Basically, I have VASSAL combined with a very detailed Excel file to help me keep track of the campaign. The only thing that I need help with is the damned research tree...

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2009, 06:35:44 pm »

Anyone know what the plasma-X's energy cost is?

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #24 on:** October 08, 2009, 10:27:15 am »

Hey guys, I don't know if anyone is still interested in this - but I'm writing up a PHP page that will help me manage my campaign. It includes things like adding ship components, a navigable research tree, and all sorts of lovely things. It's coming along wonderfully, actually.

For now, I'm still going to be using vassal as my game board - but I'd rather integrate the campaign (and battle) maps into the site itself.

I am also open to suggestions regarding things like morale for planets (revolts), ships (mutinies), and characters (defection).

Also I am open to suggestions as to an economic system. So far I have about 6 resources that players can spend to achieve different results (they are industry, research, luxuries, money, intelligence, and personnel). Things like trading is what im talking about. Types of government, and relations between those races (alliance, trade treaty, sanctions, etc) ought to affect trading.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #25 on:** October 09, 2009, 10:40:51 am »

Okay, I've been hammering out a bunch of javascript. I have a WIP of an interactive hex-grid map here: http://robinomicon.com/haven/hexmap/mapGrid.htm

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Topic: another SFB question (Read 6351 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Topic: another SFB question (Read 6351 times)