Topic: SG8 or is it 9? Rules (discussion)

[FPF-Paladin]

Awesome, I'm a line ship whore and would love to be able to throw caution to the winds sometimes...

[Julin Eurthyr]

Still not sure about the Choice of disengagement penalty or PvP points (Ranked), where'd u see that? But if a pvp match is ranked, I'd need to hear from others how voiding the disengagement penalty would work for them.

You know, re-reading the thread, I'm not sure exactly where it came from.

I think my logical mind twisted one too many "or"s in this thread.  Think about it, on a tight-scoring server, do you want to fight a PvP battle you might lose and put your team in the hole, especially for no gain, or would you, knowing your presence in hex X is deathly important, decide to give up a couple of PvP points in order to keep fighting the good fight?

Well, maybe not you-you Dizzy.    Say you challenged me.  Would I, nearly certain to die, hand you PvP points unless I had an overwhelming strategic desire to do so???  Letting me surrender PvP points for a quick return to the big fighting may just be an option.

[Dizzy]

Its worth discussion. I think whatever the RM's decide.

[Farfarer]

How about making it really simple - you can never disengage in PvP, then adjust all the off-map, off game VC stuff accordingly.  So, everyone stays, everyone fights, everyone has fun, most die and the repercussions aren't catastrophic.  Frankly it is a a shame when PvP opportunities are foregone for a) Kreug will kill me if I lose this CV8K, b) my side will lose 2 VP if I pooch this, so whille i woud like to risk it, i can't.
If people drop etc. too bad, everything needs to geared to reward (even the defeated obviously) for sticking it out.

[KBF-Crim]

How about making it really simple - you can never disengage in PvP, then adjust all the off-map, off game VC stuff accordingly.  So, everyone stays, everyone fights, everyone has fun, most die and the repercussions aren't catastrophic.  Frankly it is a a shame when PvP opportunities are foregone for a) Kreug will kill me if I lose this CV8K, b) my side will lose 2 VP if I pooch this, so whille i woud like to risk it, i can't.
If people drop etc. too bad, everything needs to geared to reward (even the defeated obviously) for sticking it out.

Hmmm...I'm not a big fan of being intelligent AI for other gamers enjoyment.

[Dizzy]

How about making it really simple - you can never disengage in PvP, then adjust all the off-map, off game VC stuff accordingly.  So, everyone stays, everyone fights, everyone has fun, most die and the repercussions aren't catastrophic.  Frankly it is a a shame when PvP opportunities are foregone for a) Kreug will kill me if I lose this CV8K, b) my side will lose 2 VP if I pooch this, so whille i woud like to risk it, i can't.
If people drop etc. too bad, everything needs to geared to reward (even the defeated obviously) for sticking it out.

Hmmm...I'm not a big fan of being intelligent AI for other gamers enjoyment.

I cant go that far, crims right. But I do want to allow peeps to stick it out in combat and see what happens. Currently with DN and BB class there are several penalties should you choose to NOT have a ranked match and simply fly for fun. 1st of course is the 12 hr. penalty for losing a DN or BB. U cant hop into another one for that time period. This is a reward to the side that is able to trash someone's heavy metal knowing they will have a slight reprieve along their front lines since that person wont be back for round 2 in the short term. 2nd penalty isnt so bad, prestige prices for ships are gonna drop. Thats basically it. So if you can afford to lose the pp, most will, then losing a DN will only result in you being froced down to a BC or less for 12 hrs. Not bad.

I dont know how to make it more 'rewarding' for losing a DN... I mean the side that bags it has to have their own reward amount to something, eh?

[KBF-Crim]

IMHO as long as these are controlled assets then the reward is removing it from the board for a period of time...the penalty is a couple points and not flying it for a while...

I have never personally witnessed anyone ever be berated by LK or anyone else in command for losing a ship...

it's only a game..

[Dizzy]

IMHO as long as these are controlled assets then the reward is removing it from the board for a period of time...the penalty is a couple points and not flying it for a while...

I have never personally witnessed anyone ever be berated by LK or anyone else in command for losing a ship...

it's only a game..

They are controlled assets. They have to abide by fleeting rules and max iron on at a time. But you only lose pvp vc points if your match is ranked. To have a ranked match everyone agrees before combat starts that it will be ranked... or it isnt. So The loss would be 12 hr penalty, u get bumped to a BC or less and you lose a little bit of cash.

Im trying to make it more fun to fly and die, hehe

[Kroma BaSyl]

Hmmm...I'm not a big fan of being intelligent AI for other gamers enjoyment.

Since you are Klingon, there is really no risk of this happening. 

BTW, when is this thing starting???

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

so with this 3 PPD per side rule,are you saying that 2 CCZ'S cant fly with each other?

[FPF-DieHard]

so with this 3 PPD per side rule,are you saying that 2 CCZ'S cant fly with each other?

no Capitol ships can fly together period, been like that for about 2 years.   Unless Dizzy changed that . . .   

ISC's still got the almost unbeatable combo of I-BBZ, I-CATZ, I-CATZ.   We almost felt guilty flying that last server . . . almost 

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

so with this 3 PPD per side rule,are you saying that 2 CCZ'S cant fly with each other?

no Capitol ships can fly together period, been like that for about 2 years.   Unless Dizzy changed that . . .   

ISC's still got the almost unbeatable combo of I-BBZ, I-CATZ, I-CATZ.   We almost felt guilty flying that last server . . . almost 

Well......sh*t sure has got wimpy since I was gone.

Sadly it just wont seem the same game too me.
I realy dont see any point in playing if I cant fly with a wingman who cant fly said ship becuase I am flying one...This is sad.

I knew the over use of rules would ruin this game....

[FPF-DieHard]

so with this 3 PPD per side rule,are you saying that 2 CCZ'S cant fly with each other?

no Capitol ships can fly together period, been like that for about 2 years.   Unless Dizzy changed that . . .   

ISC's still got the almost unbeatable combo of I-BBZ, I-CATZ, I-CATZ.   We almost felt guilty flying that last server . . . almost 

Well......sh*t sure has got wimpy since I was gone.

Sadly it just wont seem the same game too me.
I realy dont see any point in playing if I cant fly with a wingman who cant fly said ship becuase I am flying one...This is sad.

I knew the over use of rules would ruin this game....

So the game's ruined because a bunch of ubber-ships can't fly together?  On the contrary, every race can better face each other in 2v2 and 3v3 battles because of this.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

so with this 3 PPD per side rule,are you saying that 2 CCZ'S cant fly with each other?

no Capitol ships can fly together period, been like that for about 2 years.   Unless Dizzy changed that . . .   

ISC's still got the almost unbeatable combo of I-BBZ, I-CATZ, I-CATZ.   We almost felt guilty flying that last server . . . almost 

Well......sh*t sure has got wimpy since I was gone.

Sadly it just wont seem the same game too me.
I realy dont see any point in playing if I cant fly with a wingman who cant fly said ship becuase I am flying one...This is sad.

I knew the over use of rules would ruin this game....

So the game's ruined because a bunch of ubber-ships can't fly together?  On the contrary, every race can better face each other in 2v2 and 3v3 battles because of this.

I dont see anything wrong with each race being able to fly it's BCH's.To me it is more of a challenge to face off against the BCH's..always wondering who is going to hand you your arse.

This is just my view of the current state after returning back to the game.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

2 CCZs are beatable, there's been a few times in XC TCIP/IP games of 2 CCZs in a fleet, but they do hurt quite a bit!

The main point of the rule more so I think(personally) it to help less experienced players not get super overwhelmed by 2+ CCZs in a improper fleet.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

2 CCZs are beatable, there's been a few times in XC TCIP/IP games of 2 CCZs in a fleet, but they do hurt quite a bit!

The main point of the rule more so I think(personally) it to help less experienced players not get super overwhelmed by 2+ CCZs in a improper fleet.

Bah,2+ KHK's,C7's,BCH's are just as deadly in the right hands.
Why not let the less exeprienced players learn how to battle these ships just like most of us had to do.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

I dont really care one way or another it just seems crippling to me.
The Roms,Gorn,And ISC need fleets such as these to compete with the hex munchers IMVHO.

[Dizzy]

With fleeting rules in place we see some incredibly varied ship combos. Sorry you dont like it, but when you fly in a 3 ship fleet and one of your wingmen has to fly a vanilla ship per fleeting rules, things get interesting fast. I'd give it a shot if I were you because you'll see wingmen and fleets comprosed of things you've never tried in battle before and its pretty fun.

As far as my rules go, if all 4 peeps agree before hand and keep it in a hex to themselves, I don't care what they fly as long as everyone on the dynaverse isnt handicapped by their choices. So for a match where you want 2v2 BC's all round, fine. But for front line battles against just regular fow, please play by the rules. They've been out for a couple years and have worked well.

[FPF-DieHard]

I dont really care one way or another it just seems crippling to me.
The Roms,Gorn,And ISC need fleets such as these to compete with the hex munchers IMVHO.

that makes absolutely no sense.  2 guys fleeting together in BCHs are not going to be able to out-flip a Z-DF or K-D5D.   Regarding PvP, does is really matter if it's 2 BCH or a BCH and a CWL versus a solo flipper?

Regarding who gets to fly what, there is no pecking order.   No "assigned" ships, OOB, any of that crap.   Anyone can fly whatever their PP can buy.   

[FPF-DieHard]

2 CCZs are beatable, there's been a few times in XC TCIP/IP games of 2 CCZs in a fleet, but they do hurt quite a bit!

The main point of the rule more so I think(personally) it to help less experienced players not get super overwhelmed by 2+ CCZs in a improper fleet.

The CCZ is a balanced ship at it's BPV for IP/GSA play.  D2  categorizes by Hull class, which gives some pretty big mismatches in the BCH/DN classes.   

Some races have great DNs and lousy BCHs (Kzinti is the best example).   Some have amazing BCHs and lousy DNs (ISC, but their CVA is still a monster).  If DNs are going to be restricted, BCHs need to be as well.

The point of PBR rules, which we stole for D2 usage, was to allow all races to be able to fleet something that could fight every other race.   The point of the rules is to make the fleets "Fairer" across the races and to add some fricking variety to the fleets. 

The kicker is the ISC STILL is awesome, hardly hamstrung at all.  On AOTK3/4 the kitties would almost always use a big ISC ship as their anchor-man.  Three guys who know how to fly Echelon are almost unbeatable even with these rules.

We could go completely free-form and allow CVAs to escort BBs again     Or a CVA and 2 CVDs,