Topic: Snow Leopard Endangers Vista

[jualdeaux]

http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/19/apple-msft-leopard-tech-enter-cx_bc_1120apple.html?feed=rss_popstories

Snow Leopard Endangers Vista
Brian Caulfield, 11.20.08, 06:00 AM EST
Apple's new OS X could force Microsoft to dump its beleaguered operating system.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and Steve Jobs feels fine. With the U.S. Federal Reserve now predicting a recession that will last well into next year--and others predicting much worse--sales of ammunition, spam and gold coins are surging.

Oh yeah, so are sales of the Apple (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people ) chief's Macintosh computers.

Apple owned 9.5% of the U.S. PC market during the third quarter, according to tech tracker Gartner. Look at where beleaguered consumers are putting their dollars, however, and Apple's performance is even more impressive: The company grabbed 20.1% of the U.S. retail market in October, according to NPD Group. And Apple is on track to sell between 2.4 million and 2.7 million Macs for the quarter ending in December, up 13% from the year-ago period, according to Piper Jaffray (nyse: PJC - news - people ) analyst Gene Munster.

Microsoft's (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ) Vista, meanwhile, is tottering. Operating income for Microsoft's mighty client division actually declined to $3.3 billion for the quarter ending in September from $3.4 billion during the year-ago period. Part of the problem is that businesses tend to switch to a new operating system all at once, and many are choosing to wait. General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) chief techie Fred Killeen has even said the auto giant may choose to skip Windows Vista and wait for Windows 7, due in 2010 or 2011.

Apple, meanwhile, is preparing to release an operating system focused on Vista user's biggest gripes: speed and stability. A slide show presented by an Apple executive at the Large Installation System Administration Conference last week seems to show that Apple's next operating system will appear in the first quarter. With Apple now selling one of every five computers at retail--and an even bigger chunk of the notebook market--could the move push Microsoft into making Windows XP more widely available?

That could be the death knell for Vista. The consumer edition got off to a rocky start when it launched in January 2007, years behind schedule. And while the PC makers who wrap their products around Microsoft's software are loathe to admit it on the record, insiders at big PC companies say corporate users are clamoring for machines running Windows XP.

Apple, meanwhile, kept chipping away, releasing the latest version of its Unix-based operating system, Leopard, that fall. Now Apple is on track to release yet another version of its operating system, Snow Leopard, even as it spends millions on ads designed to pluck consumers away from Vista.
Comment On This Story

If Snow Leopard clicks, don't expect the big PC manufacturers to take a bullet for Vista. Nor will corporate information technology departments switch in large numbers to OS X, an operating system many of them are unfamiliar with. Instead, look for PC makers to push XP harder. If they do, that would truly be the end for Vista.

While I cn not claim the veracity of the numbers stated in the story, I do know that if I were in the market for a new computer, I would be looking for an alternative to Vista. I liked the look of the OS but I'd rather use the Vista Transformation pack for XP than Vista itself.

[Bonk]

Yeah, Vista is what happens when you keep building on a product over the years and never start fresh.

MacOS 7 sucked hard. Apple started fresh with 10, result: much better product.

The real question is will MacOS 10 run OP under Wine? 

The other question that matters is: can I open a Mac box and add a new PCIe card (etc)? On the old Macs you were stuck with limited Apple hardware and nothing else.

And finally, can MacOS 10 reliably mount a floppy? (no dirty jokes please) MacOS 7 could not.

[toasty0]

Specualtion at best.

[Clark Kent]

One thing I would say: I doubt Apple is in a position to take too much moremarket share from M$.  M$ has the market, and I think they will keep it for some time. 

Now, about the Mac OS- I really liked System 7, there were one or two builds I was not happy with, but 7, 7.1 and 7.5.3 really did well by me.  Few crashes, did everything I asked of it.  I also thoroughly enjoyed OS 8.1 and 8.6 (didn't spend much time in 8.0 and 8.5, so i can't really comment on them).  Good solid OS, I still sometimes go back to it.  OS 9 is a different story.  I liked the features, but the quality simply wasn't there anymore.  By that point, it was about time for OS X.

I have never heard of anyone who has tried to boot OS X from a floppy, not sure if this is in jest or not.  I do know of many people who boot it from a CD or external firewire drive.  Also, Carbon Copy CLoner seems to do a goo job of creating a bootable clone.

iMacs, eMacs and Mac Minis are desgned for consumers, and only a few components are easry to change.  The Mac Pro, however, is fully upgradable- hard drive, processory, PCIe cards, etc.  I've read it's a pretty good system for the money, but it's still expensive.  The validity of Apple's decision to limit their consumer models like this is questionable...

[Dash Jones]

A lot of it is the brand recognition Apple is slowly getting with Ipods, and other items which Apple has been putting out, and dominating the market in a fashion.  Add to that the bad sense in the Vista Construction, which I view NOT as just building upon former OS's, but in fact also making it non backwards compatible, and making it so bulky as to be a resource hog, authentication and DRM rumors, and siding with protection rackets instead of the consumer, and it's no wonder Apple has made in roads.  Then they also fragment their audience, and make Ultimate the OS to use and killing the Professionals by giving them the cheaper OS, but also one that isn't as able as "Ultimate" and their impression is a negative one.

MS seems to be reworking vista to be more consumer friendly with Windows 7 not being a resource hog, and perhaps will integrate more easily with businesses.  Many are giving a wait for Windows 7 in hopes that the mistakes in Vista will be corrected with it.  This is NO guarantee they will buy 7, but they are hopeful MS has learned it's nice little mistake and once again caters to them.

If not, then why not look for another OS that operates better and fulfills their needs?  MS needs to cater to the customer, instead of the producers of computer and media products.

[Nemesis]

Top 10 host Operating Systems for SETI at Home.

1    Microsoft Windows XP                 1,438,223
2    Linux                                              168,437    
3    Microsoft Windows 2000                   151,452
4    Microsoft Windows Vista                   133,889
5    OSX                                                 68,635    
6    Darwin                                             46,976
7    Microsoft Windows 2003                   39,342
8    Microsoft Windows 98                       24,753
9    Microsoft Windows Server 2003         19,095
10    Microsoft Windows Millennium           8,322    

Remember that the people who run SETI seem to be much more knowledgable about computers than most and where they go I think eventually everyone else follows as they are the ones people go to for help with their computers.

[toasty0]

7    Microsoft Windows 2003                   39,342
9    Microsoft Windows Server 2003         19,095

I believe those are one and the same OS.

[Bonk]

I was curious and looked, so might as well post the data, nothing private is revealed...

Dynaverse.net visitor OSs for 2008 to date:

[toasty0]

Are these unique hits?

[Bonk]

http://awstats.sourceforge.net/docs/awstats_glossary.html

[Bonk]

Note, we're a version behind. Current stable is 6.8, we're still running 6.7 (I'll get to it eventually...):
http://awstats.sourceforge.net/docs/awstats_changelog.txt

[Death_Merchant]

The real question is will MacOS 10 run OP under Wine? 

Dunno.
It runs EAW. Actually, I used CrossOver to avoid screwing around with WINE myself.
Have yet to try anything but single player.

[Nemesis]

7    Microsoft Windows 2003                   39,342
9    Microsoft Windows Server 2003         19,095

I believe those are one and the same OS.

I wouldn't be surprised, Seti trusts what your system reports and records that so if different patch levels report slightly different versions of the name then each is recorded individually.

[Bonk]

The real question is will MacOS 10 run OP under Wine? 

Dunno.
It runs EAW. Actually, I used CrossOver to avoid screwing around with WINE myself.
Have yet to try anything but single player.

Most interesting, and not really surprising, as I almost got the Dynaverse working under Wine on Kubuntu.

Now the next question is can I get a Mac for <$1000? Or install Mac OS 10 on say a Compaq?

[Centurus]

The real question is will MacOS 10 run OP under Wine? 

Dunno.
It runs EAW. Actually, I used CrossOver to avoid screwing around with WINE myself.
Have yet to try anything but single player.

Most interesting, and not really surprising, as I almost got the Dynaverse working under Wine on Kubuntu.

Now the next question is can I get a Mac for <$1000? Or install Mac OS 10 on say a Compaq?

If you figure that out, think you can provide the steps needed?   

[Death_Merchant]

The real question is will MacOS 10 run OP under Wine? 

Dunno.
It runs EAW. Actually, I used CrossOver to avoid screwing around with WINE myself.
Have yet to try anything but single player.

Most interesting, and not really surprising, as I almost got the Dynaverse working under Wine on Kubuntu.

Now the next question is can I get a Mac for <$1000? Or install Mac OS 10 on say a Compaq?

The Macbook White lists for $999
http://www.apple.com/macbook/white/

- 2.1GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 3MB on-chip shared L2 cache running 1:1 with processor speed

- 800MHz frontside bus

- 1GB (two 512MB SO-DIMMs) of 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM; two SO-DIMM slots support up to 4GBStorage

- 120GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard disk drive; optional 160GB or 250GB 5400-rpm drive4

- 8x slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

[Bonk]

Single most important spec:

3MB on-chip shared L2 cache running 1:1 with processor speed

Still kinda steep for what it is but that is not too bad. That processor choice almost makes it worth it.

Looking at the specs page, the downside is the Intel graphics chip sharing system ram (shipping with only 1GB).

I wonder what it has in it for a BIOS?

(Thanks for the link! )

[KOTH-KieranXC, Ret.]

585 hits from Windows 3.xx?

People still use that dinosaur? That's what we had back in, oh, 1992...

[Bonk]

If you figure that out, think you can provide the steps needed?   

This thread contains a record of my progress and the steps followed. Though it may have changed since.

[Bonk]

585 hits from Windows 3.xx?

People still use that dinosaur? That's what we had back in, oh, 1992...

Lol, didn't catch that. Well, OS/2 is in there too, of a similar vintage. I did notice and was surprised by the presence of AmigaOS.

[Clark Kent]

The real question is will MacOS 10 run OP under Wine? 

Dunno.
It runs EAW. Actually, I used CrossOver to avoid screwing around with WINE myself.
Have yet to try anything but single player.

This really interests me, could you elaborate on this?  I was under the impression that WINE wasn't that reliable, so I haven't really considered it.  How well does EAW run?  Have you tried other versions of SFC?  I'm also curious if I could make the remote access for work (PC based) work on y MacBook Pro.

[Bonk]

I'm also curious if I could make the remote access for work (PC based) work on y MacBook Pro.

I'd recommend KDE for that. (krdc)

http://mac.kde.org/

But I'm not sure that krdc is in the included applications. (I'd go with 3.5.6)

BUT there is this (probably the best way to go):

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/remote-desktop/default.mspx

Horrifically designed and unnavigable website - the actual download link for the Microsoft Remote Desktop Connection Client for Mac 2 (ENG) is:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/c/0/6c01c76e-fef9-4a59-9fe1-84b1a307ad26/RDC200_ALL.dmg

And there is also this:
http://cord.sourceforge.net/

[Clark Kent]

I'm also curious if I could make the remote access for work (PC based) work on y MacBook Pro.

I'd recommend KDE for that. (krdc)

http://mac.kde.org/

But I'm not sure that krdc is in the included applications. (I'd go with 3.5.6)

BUT there is this (probably the best way to go):

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/remote-desktop/default.mspx

Horrifically designed and unnavigable website - the actual download link for the Microsoft Remote Desktop Connection Client for Mac 2 (ENG) is:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/c/0/6c01c76e-fef9-4a59-9fe1-84b1a307ad26/RDC200_ALL.dmg

And there is also this:
http://cord.sourceforge.net/

It looks like these are remote desktop applications, unless I misunderstand what I'm looking at.  I have remote, web based apps for work that I can access- outlook, excel, word, etc.  I use an RSA secure ID token to log into work servers to use them.  I don't actually need t get to y work desktop, just the apps and the server files.

I think that the app that I DL from work to install on my Dell is a .ica file. 

[Bonk]

Ah, you want the citrix client for mac...

http://www.citrix.com/English/SS/downloads/details.asp?downloadID=3247&productID=-1

Though your citrix server at work may not be configured to allow connections from outside the lan.

[Clark Kent]

Ah, you want the citrix client for mac...

http://www.citrix.com/English/SS/downloads/details.asp?downloadID=3247&productID=-1

Though your citrix server at work may not be configured to allow connections from outside the lan.

OMG Bonk, that worked and it was so freaking simple!!  For almost two and a half years I have listened to my IT guys tell me that there is no way for me, a mac user to log into remote apps unless Im on windows, but with one link you gave me a quick, simple solution that opens everything!  It looks like it even would have worked on my older iBook!  I don't know how you knew about this, but you just made my day!  Thank you so much bro!! 

I hope I can someday return the favor.

[Bonk]

OMG Bonk, that worked and it was so freaking simple!!  For almost two and a half years I have listened to my IT guys tell me that there is no way for me, a mac user to log into remote apps unless Im on windows, but with one link you gave me a quick, simple solution that opens everything!  It looks like it even would have worked on my older iBook!  I don't know how you knew about this, but you just made my day!  Thank you so much bro!! 

I hope I can someday return the favor.

You're most welcome Clark. Think nothing of it. I know Citrix from various work environments, but to be honest, I just Googled "citrix client for mac" for you, and a click or two later -  there I was!

The funny part is your IT guys telling you it had to be on windows... that is part of the whole point of Citrix - centrally administered application deployment independent of the client OS.

I wouldn't bother telling your IT guys, it would probably upset them, just keep sucking up to them as usual, but you can chuckle to yourself. Unless of course the opportunity presents itself to tell them about it in a non-threatening way that makes it sound like their idea. You know IT guys. Hehe.

I once had fun running the Citrix ICA client from a linux boot disk on a work computer so I could still use all the apps needed for work, but use the web browserr of my choice (and proxy) and play all my favorite linux games.