Topic: Vista users.. Need testers to verify Vista Fix for Dynaverse

[toasty0]

 

Ok. I thought you guys were tesing via the use/client and not the server. No wonder some of this made no sense to me.

Now I'm on the same page. It's all making sense. The doc says I'm much better now...

[Bonk]

Last night I decided I will be replacing Vista with XP Pro SP3 on both of my new machines come hell or high water. Not being able to run OP is part of it, but the major reason is observations I've made about the bundled Vista install on the Compaq desktop. Being that it hits the hard disk (a nice WD too) every second constantly - never stopping, and no it is not the usual suspects, I made many trials stopping every stoppable service and killing every killable task. Yet it continued hitting the disk once a second. (even in safe mode) Have you had a look at the new task scheduler in Vista? The myriad of scheduled tasks to make up for the inadequacies of the OS is incredible, not only that, the Task Scheduler service cannot be stopped.

Vista is about on par with Fedora (3). It is an unstable testing branch. I dumped Fedora for the very same reason: unjustified and unidentifiable disk activity. I sure hope windows 7 is an improvement or it will surely be the end of windows. (Go Wine go!)

[Lepton]

Uh oh!!! Prepare for the Microsoft fanboys backlash in 5..4..3..2..1.

[Bonk]

 

Well to be fair, I did crap on Fedora too.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I can't kick in much here, but...
Having played SFC on 98, ME, XP and now on XP64, other than getting past firewall issues, never any lag issues that could be attributed to just XP.
No experiance with Vista.
*deposits 2 lousy cents*

[Bonk]

I think I figured out my problem trying to install XP on my laptop in the process of installing it on my new desktop (replacing vista). My XP install disk dates back to 2001 and it appears it cannot recognise disks/partitions greater than 130GB. So using the Gparted Live CD to wipe the existing partitions on my desktop, I then used it to create a single 100GB NTFS partition, then booted from my XP install disk, which saw the 100GB partition and 30GB unpartitioned space (blind to the remaining 170GB) and installed it, updated to SP2, then SP3 and used the XP SP3 disk manager to add a 200GB NTFS data partition.

So, my strategy now for a multiple boot setup on my laptop is to wipe the restore partition and shrink the vista partition to about 70GB, then install XP on ~30GB of the ~60GB of unpartitioned space I expect it to see, patch it up, and then Install Kubuntu on the remaining unpartitioned space allowing the GRUB boot manager to take control of the MBR which should see all three OS's and provide boot menu entries for each. 

First, I'm wrapping up finding and installing all the XP drivers for the new desktop that Compaq/HP says don't exist.    Then I'll tackle the laptop multiboot setup and I'll be all geared up to test the client from three OSs on the laptop and run my own servers on the desktop! (must nag my ISP about the domain hosting deal they promised)

Once I have this done, the interim Forge will be going up at Xenocorp. "Soon".

And wow, is XP ever fast on a dual core pentium @ 2.2 GHz with 3GB of RAM - smokin fast! It is going to be a lean clean (el cheapo) server machine!

edit: and I'm going to keep it lean and mean by using ClamWin and A-squared free instead of my old combination of AVG free and Windows defender.

[[KBF]MuadDib]

please let me know when you're up, running and got some time Bonk. 

[Bonk]

please let me know when you're up, running and got some time Bonk. 

Will do. I haven't forgotten.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

but the major reason is observations I've made about the bundled Vista install on the Compaq desktop. Being that it hits the hard disk (a nice WD too) every second constantly - never stopping, and no it is not the usual suspects, I made many trials stopping every stoppable service and killing every killable task. Yet it continued hitting the disk once a second. (even in safe mode)

Hey Bonk, just so you know, I know a few people who have to suffer through Vista Home Premium as well, and indeed their HDDs are lighting up every second, but Vista Ultimate doesn't hit the drive every second. At times it does, but just sitting on the desktop or something idle, Ultimate doesn't seem to hit the drive constantly. Still more then XP would, but less then HomePremium of every 1 second.

[Pestalence_XC]

On my system, Vista hits my HDD on start up for about 3 to 4 min.. after that, it hardly accesses my HDD unless I am running the TV Tuner (MCE works as TIVO so records current episode you are watching, then deletes it when tuner is turned off), playing games such as Crysis, Fallout 3, Hellgate London....

Other than that, I experience less HDD access than XP does..

However speed between Vista and XP.. I have to give them the same rating

Visual between Vista and XP.. if you want true HD and effects from movies, games, etc.. Vista hands down.

Compatibility.. this I have to give to XP.. however I have only 10 titles that will not work on Vista out of 165 games and 86 other software programs.

Not Vista Compatible : SFC II titles Dynaverse, Dominion Wars, Star Trek : Hidden Evil, MS Visual C++ 6.0 (You can install it and program in it, but programs do not compile correctly), MS VB 6, 3D Studio Max 3 and 4 and 5, Artifex (SFC map editor), Diskeeper (older than 2008 version).

Some programs need some tweaking in Vista in order to get full functionality.

Vista resources.. with all graphics enabled, AERO, enhancements, animated background (Vista DreamScene) .. memory being used.. 1.48 GB at 3% processor usage (Intel Core 2 2.66 Ghz w/ 1333 Mhz FSB OC'd to 3.86 Ghz w/ 1975Mhz FSB)

a few more resources than XP requires, however the trade off is a big jump in graphics (not just eye candy of the OS, but DirectX 10 shader effects in games as well as true HD playback from TV Tuners [if tuner is HD compliant]).

I wouldn't recommend Vista for anyone running less than 2 GB on their main board.. or if you want fast usability, 4 GB system memory and 4 GB USB memory stick set to READY BOOST.

Also many people turn off SuperFetch.. I have mine enabled, which is why I hav somewhat prolonged start up reads, but once the system caches to the Ready Boost.. nice and fast. and physical memory is then reduced to 1.03 GB in use.

I can get that down to about 800 MB by disabeling AERO and most of the shadow effects (reducing the system down to XP levels) ..

Vista Ultimate is the only version of Vista to have if you plan on running Vista.. I have had less compatibility issues with programs under Vista Ultimate than I did under Vista Home Premium. I didn't have all that many problems under Home Premium.. but I have found Ultimate to be more user friendly.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Vista Ultimate is the only version of Vista to have if you plan on running Vista

I've come to say to anyone that asks me,
if you must get Vista, then get Vista Ultimate(64-bit at best, but 32-bit will be fine). The other versions really are just stripped down into shells not worth anything in any way shape or form(unfortunatly). Anything else, well you have something labled as Windows Vista, but it is no more than a ugly rock titled Vista.

[Age]

Originally Posted by Bonk

Once I have this done, the interim Forge will be going up at Xenocorp. "Soon".

And wow, is XP ever fast on a dual core pentium @ 2.2 GHz with 3GB of RAM - smokin fast! It is going to be a lean clean (el cheapo) server machine!

edit: and I'm going to keep it lean and mean by using ClamWin and A-squared free instead of my old combination of AVG free and Windows defender.

That will make Crim and yeah dual core duels are  really nice and what is ClamWin?

I think I figured out my problem trying to install XP on my laptop in the process of installing it on my new desktop (replacing vista). My XP install disk dates back to 2001 and it appears it cannot recognise disks/partitions greater than 130GB. So using the Gparted Live CD to wipe the existing partitions on my desktop, I then used it to create a single 100GB NTFS partition, then booted from my XP install disk, which saw the 100GB partition and 30GB unpartitioned space (blind to the remaining 170GB) and installed it, updated to SP2, then SP3 and used the XP SP3 disk manager to add a 200GB NTFS data partition.

So, my strategy now for a multiple boot setup on my laptop is to wipe the restore partition and shrink the vista partition to about 70GB, then install XP on ~30GB of the ~60GB of unpartitioned space I expect it to see, patch it up, and then Install Kubuntu on the remaining unpartitioned space allowing the GRUB boot manager to take control of the MBR which should see all three OS's and provide boot menu entries for each. 

First, I'm wrapping up finding and installing all the XP drivers for the new desktop that Compaq/HP says don't exist.    Then I'll tackle the laptop multiboot setup and I'll be all geared up to test the client from three OSs on the laptop and run my own servers on the desktop! (must nag my ISP about the domain hosting deal they promised)

Once I have this done, the interim Forge will be going up at Xenocorp. "Soon".

And wow, is XP ever fast on a dual core pentium @ 2.2 GHz with 3GB of RAM - smokin fast! It is going to be a lean clean (el cheapo) server machine!

edit: and I'm going to keep it lean and mean by using ClamWin and A-squared free instead of my old combination of AVG free and Windows defender.

[Bonk]

ClamWin is the most convenient of the windows ports of ClamAV, suitable for desktop systems. It is an on-demand (not on-access) virus scanner, thus much easier on system resources. Though ClamWin lacks a daemon that keeps the definitions in RAM, so it has a little overhead each time it is called on to scan. For more intensive server applications another port that includes the daemon is more appropriate: ClamAV Antivirus Native Win32 Port, though it is not for the conf file challenged as it requires considerable manual configuration and scripting to handle its myriad of command line parameters. It is rumoured that ClamWin will include the daemon in its distribution at some future date though.

P.S. I do not recommend installing ClamWin's Outlook addin, it is a beast. (which requires the custom install option to opt out of it) A better solution is to schedule a daily scan of your mail store folder and set clamwin to treat files as mailboxes. Better yet, use Thunderbird to connect to Gmail by IMAP, and let Google take care of all that for you, as I do. (being aware of the privacy issues of course)

[Pestalence_XC]

Bonk, you may want to trade in the Dual Core Pentium since it is considered a dinosaur by todays standards.. Intel doesn't even make them any more.. they haven't for about 2 years now..

Core is the replacement for Dual Core Pentiums.

Flavors for Core series
Core i7
Core i7 Extreme
Core i7-965 Extreme
Core 2 Duo
Core 2 Quad
Core 2 Duo Extereme
Core 2 Quad Extreme

pretty much in that order.. the Core 2 Quad Extreme is equivalent to running a quad core Xenon chip.

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/core2xe/specifications.htm

Now for my rig, the best I can get on here is a Core 2 Quad Extreme with a 1333 Ghz FSB Stock..

I would like to build with a newer Core 2 quad Extreme at the 1600 Mhz FSB, but that requires a new main board.. I may not have enough with taxes this year.

The best I can probably hope for is a QX9650 this year.. maybe a QX9770, but I have to check to see if it supports running at 1333 Mhz FSB (main board default)

EDIT : I will have to go with the QX9650.. the QX9770 only supports 1600 Mhz FSB ..

They have 2 QX9650 processors.. a 95W and a 130W.. the difference is max temp rating.. if I decide to OC the heck out of it, then I will probably go with the 130W chip.. not bad for $999

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115034

I can get it from Ebay new for $499.00 + 20 shipping (buy now option) and this is the 130W Architecture.

[KBF-Crim]

That will make Crim and yeah

You bet that will make me and yeah

But yeah...that will make me yeah....YEA even...

(I have webots that seek my name and bring me intel  )

[Age]

I meant happy Crim.

I use core 2 duo not not dual.

I use Outlook for my e-mail not TBird or Outlook Express Avg scans Outlook.

Might want to check out newegg.ca for $CDN prices.

http://www.newegg.ca/Store/Category.aspx?Category=34&name=CPUs-Processors

[Bonk]

Soon Crim and Age will be happy! 

Thanks for the update on current processor tech Pestalence, you're a valuable resource around here!

The thing is the cheapy dual core E2200 3GB RAM system I got on sale will do just fine for a low traffic webserver and running sfb-op on MySQL, it should be more than enough. You have to remember I'm used to running on my old PIII 1000MHz with 640MB RAM system. Just about anything you can buy today will blow that out of the water. I have XP and all the required drivers installed nicely on the Presario (E2200) desktop system now. Just waiting for my domain name to come in to start setting up servers.

And dig this... a big 

I now have a Vista, XP and Kubuntu multiboot setup working perfectly on my laptop! Using Vista's boot manager no less! I guess my bitching about the EFI/"pseudoBIOS" was not justified, though the Toshiba system partion on the disk did complicate the partition setup somewhat by occupying one of four primary partition slots. My partition setup is attached (as seen by Gparted - the Vista disk management does not see the linux partitions as in the extended partiion, which they are, but rather sees them as primary... )

All I had to do to get there was repeat many arcane incantations and sacrifice several small furry animals, et voila! 

Nah, what really got me there was the doc you posted for Vista-XP dual boot setup (which I did first - with some modifications):
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=163380252.0;id=15372

the Gparted live CD:
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php

the Windows Recovery Environment (WinPE dist from neosmart):
http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/

and a combination of the instructions here (under Classical Final Solution):
http://www.supergrubdisk.org/wiki/Howto_Boot_Grub_from_windows#Classical_solution
and here:
http://port25.technet.com/archive/2006/10/13/Using-Vista_2700_s-Boot-Manager-to-Boot-Linux-and-Dual-Booting-with-BitLocker-Protection-with-TPM-Support.aspx

Basically, I used Gparted to shrink my Vista partition, then create an XP partition, installed and patched XP, restored the Vista boot manager, added XP to it, used Gparted to create an extended partition and a data partition to share among the OSs, then installed Kubuntu in largest free space guided mode, with the advanced option to install GRUB to the linux partition outside the MBR (/dev/sda6 in my case), then used the console on the Gparted Livecd to grab the Linux bootsector to a thumbdrive (and a screenshot of the actual partitions for this post), then configured the Vista bootloader via bcdedit as outlined in the last link above (with some minor modifications - I called it Kubuntu instead of GRUB - so GRUB on /dev/sda6 shows as "Kubuntu" in the Vista bootloader.

Phew... now I can really get down to work! Yay!  Starting with collecting up all the chipset divers for XP for this laptop. 

[Pestalence_XC]

The i7's CPU's are the newest, but performance wise, the Core 2 will outperform them, especially during overclocking. the i7 Motherboards have the main board CPU clock as an external hardware component to prevent OC, which IMHO is a major limitation.. given that they are a faster processor stock, a QX9770 3.0 Ghz running at 1600 Mhz FSB can easily overclock to 4.45 Ghz at 2600 Mhx FSB under stock cooling.. however if you go water cooling, you can actuall crank out 5.5 Ghz @ 2800 Mhz on the 130 W core.. and with 12 Mb 2nd level cache, completely blows the i7 chip out of the water.

Same goes for the one I want to get.. the QX9650 .. it is a 3.0 Ghz @1333 Mhz FSB but can overclock to 4.2 Ghz @ 2050 Mhz FSB under stock cooling.. and still has the 12 Mb 2nd level cache.. which still blows the i7 out of the water.. and the QX chips support DDR2 and DDR3 both where the i7 only supports DDR3...

as such the QX is much more versatile and I can blow the socks off an i7 chip with a small overclock.. I can really make the machine ROXXORS with cryo cool or water cool and almost tripple the CPU speed on the 130 watt die ... nothing in the i7 catagory can touch that.. not even their extreme chip.

now the i7 has a couple of innovative architecture designs which makes it scream to begin with but the QX series of Core 2 under overclock vastly outperforms the i7 which can not be overclocked.

add that to a couple of 15,000 RPM Sata in Raid 0 or Raid 1 configs... the system would have a Vista base score with a good graphics card (Geforce 8800 GTX 768 MB gDDR3 or higher [9800 series])and RAM of 5.9 (which is Vista's max) but actual score would be closer to 6.5.

I'm just planning on upping my CPU for now.. thinking on getting the QX9770 and getting a new main board .. upgrade memory to DDR3 later on...

but that depends on taxes.. if taxes are lower than expected, then the QX9650 will have to do for the next couple of years and I just build a new complete system in 2011 when Windows 7 comes out (new machine for a new OS)

[Bonk]

Looky what I found in my dpnetdbg.txt in my OP install on Vista:

"FailedconnectionDescription->mIsValid()"

Usually all it ever says is "Windows API Call Failed" (even on XP).

Not sure if it's significant, just thought I'd note it here for the record.

[Bonk]

I just tried The Forge from my Vista install. Similar results.

I then tried again after placing these dlls in my Vista OP installation folder: http://www.thehandofagony.com/alex/dll/dplaydlls-win98se.tar.bz2

Similar result again. Worth a try I guess.