Topic: Vista users.. Need testers to verify Vista Fix for Dynaverse

[KBFLordKrueg]

 ...I will have The Forge up again soon....

ThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyou
 

[Bonk]

Pestalence, are you running that server on Vista or XP? I suspect this will affect your observations. I think we should be testing the client on Vista connected to a server running on XP or Server 2003. Then once we have the client running reliably on Vista, then take a look at the server end on Vista or Server 2008 (with Vista and XP clients).

[Bonk]

Hmmm... I suspect we'll have much better success installing to somewhere like "C:\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates" to avoid the file virtualisation "features" associated with the usage of "C:\Program Files\".  I beleive I will try that now. This should result in a folder created by the installer with the user's permissions not requiring any custom settings or permissions modifications to overcome Vista's "virtualisation".  Then how to simply overcome the registry virtualisation?  I suppose both could be achived with compatibility mitigations but that requires stuff complicated for the average user to implement. Hmmm...

http://blogs.technet.com/richard_macdonald/archive/2007/05/18/990366.aspx

Application Manifest. If the application has an associated manifest file (embedded or external) that contains the new requestedExecutionLevel entry, Windows assumes the application has been written specifically for Windows Vista and thus will deal appropriately with security restrictions.

Oho... NSIS is capable of "the new requestedExecutionLevel entry", I can remake some mods like SFB-OP and the new XC Hardcore installer with the appropriate setting in the script, and use it in all new mod installers. I wonder if Firesoul would be willing to recompile the OP+4 NSIS installer with this setting as well (or provide the original installer script and files)?

From the NSIS docs:

4.8.1.32 RequestExecutionLevel
none|user|highest|admin
Specifies the requested execution level for Windows Vista. The value is embedded in the installer and uninstaller's XML manifest and tells Vista, and probably future versions of Windows, what privileges level the installer requires. user requests the a normal user's level with no administrative privileges. highest will request the highest execution level available for the current user and will cause Windows to prompt the user to verify privilege escalation. The prompt might request for the user's password. admin requests administrator level and will cause Windows to prompt the user as well. Specifying none, which is also the default, will keep the manifest empty and let Windows decide which execution level is required. Windows Vista automatically identifies NSIS installers and decides administrator privileges are required. Because of this, none and admin have virtually the same effect.

It's recommended, at least by Microsoft, that every application will be marked with the required execution level. Unmarked installers are subject to compatibility mode. Workarounds of this mode include automatically moving any shortcuts created in the user's start menu to all users' start menu. Installers that need not install anything into system folders or write to the local machine registry (HKLM) should specify user execution level.

More information about this topic can be found at MSDN. Keywords include "UAC", "requested execution level", "vista manifest" and "vista security".

Oh, wait, I see it says that Vista recognises NSIS installers and elevates them anyway. 

Edit: but I notice it is not elevating NSIS uninstallers, as the shortcuts that were removed on uninstall on XP are remaining in Vista.

[Pestalence_XC]

Pestalence, are you running that server on Vista or XP? I suspect this will affect your observations. I think we should be testing the client on Vista connected to a server running on XP or Server 2003. Then once we have the client running reliably on Vista, then take a look at the server end on Vista or Server 2008 (with Vista and XP clients).

Server kit is not effected by either XP or Vista.. both OS run the server kit perfectly..

I have been running it on Vista.. but I can raboot into XP and run the server from it if need be.

[Bonk]

Server kit is not effected by either XP or Vista.. both OS run the server kit perfectly..

I wouldn't be so sure... part of that report attached above is what made me ask:

******** Registry (2)

[ 1 ]
                   Severity : Error
                      Noise : No
                 Executable : starfleetop.exe.0
              Registry Path : \REGISTRY\MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\WinSock2\Parameters
                        API : RegOpenKeyExA
   Work with Virtualization : No

[ 2 ]
                   Severity : Error
                      Noise : No
                 Executable : starfleetop.exe.0
              Registry Path : HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\WinSock2\Parameters
                        API : RegOpenKeyExA
   Work with Virtualization : No

I expect the serverkit would encounter similar difficulty with registry virtualisation.

[Bonk]

I just uninstalled all my sfc stuff and am going to install it all under C:\SFC\* and resume testing.

[Pestalence_XC]

Well, I ran AOTK 4 on Vista with no issues what so ever from players using XP clients

When I did run it on XP, the only problem was a mistake I made with the DB and it corrupted.

Other than that.. absolutely 0 issues on the server kit..

I even ran the server kit inside and outside the Program Files (x86) folder for virtualization and without.. no effect what so ever.. I just set the Process Sentinel and Server Platform exec files to XPSP 2 compatibility and to run as administrator..

flawless execution.

Also Vista clients have the exact same problem on XP based servers as they experience on Vista based servers.. there is no difference.. I get the same results on The Forge when it was up as I do on Hardcore or Strayy's Tavern (Strayy is running Vista as well for the servers)

the problem I believe is completely client based.. as XP users had 0 issues playing Hardcore on Vista or XP.

[Pestalence_XC]

I just uninstalled all my sfc stuff and am going to install it all under C:\SFC\* and resume testing.

Agreed.. I just did the same thing.. I'm going to see how the game responds when being directly in the C directory.. hopefully the 64 bit OS doesn't mess things up.

[Bonk]

Well, I ran AOTK 4 on Vista with no issues what so ever from players using XP clients

When I did run it on XP, the only problem was a mistake I made with the DB and it corrupted.

Other than that.. absolutely 0 issues on the server kit..

I even ran the server kit inside and outside the Program Files (x86) folder for virtualization and without.. no effect what so ever.. I just set the Process Sentinel and Server Platform exec files to XPSP 2 compatibility and to run as administrator..

flawless execution.

Also Vista clients have the exact same problem on XP based servers as they experience on Vista based servers.. there is no difference.. I get the same results on The Forge when it was up as I do on Hardcore or Strayy's Tavern (Strayy is running Vista as well for the servers)

the problem I believe is completely client based.. as XP users had 0 issues playing Hardcore on Vista or XP.

Thanks for filling me in, I was not around for AOTK 4.

[Lepton]

If you look at the matching files for SFC2 or SFC1, they look complete, whereas those for OP does not include starfleetop.exe but does include a completely random weapongroups file.  I think somebody made a boo-boo.

[Bonk]

If you look at the matching files for SFC2 or SFC1, they look complete, whereas those for OP does not include starfleetop.exe but does include a completely random weapongroups file.  I think somebody made a boo-boo.

I noticed that as well... I think somebody took the virtualised "compatibility files" from their single test and used those, as when under file virtualisation all the weaponsgroup files get written to the virtualised location (any fille that gets written to does, like sfc.ini, scripts.lst, auto1.rec, etc...)



I did my reinstall like so (with the following result):

1) created folder "C:\SFC" with full permissions for all users
2) ran Setup.exe from the CD as admin - installed OP to "C:\SFC\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates"
3) ran SFCOP_Patch_2500-2552.exe as admin
4) ran setup-ezini.exe as admin - installed to "C:\SFC\KhoroMag Gaming Services\EzINI"
5) ran opplus_40_models.exe as admin (verifying OP installation folder)
6) ran OP_DLL_Updater.exe as admin (full install, verifying OP installation folder)
7) ran opplus_40_hc_setup.exe as admin (verifying OP installation folder)
8) ran sfcdirect_setup.exe as admin - installed to "C:\SFC\SFC Direct"
9) ran Hardcore_Installer.exe as admin - installed to "C:\SFC\Hardcore Server"
10) ran 7-zip as admin - extracted HC_Scripts.zip to "C:\SFC\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\Assets\Scripts\"
11) ran EzINI v1.0 from the desktop shortcut (not as admin) and set resolution and preferences
12) ran OP from start menu shortcut, not as admin, entered CD key (it used to remain on XP... registry virtualisation I assume), played a multiplayer TCP/IP game against AI to get windows firewall exeption prompt which I allowed after exiting the game (the directplay helper exception remained as it had not changed)
13) ran OP from start menu shortcut, not as admin, logged into dyna - got slow login - three clicks on back button - login button appeared
14) tried to login to hardcore - got bad shiplist and fighterlist crc....

I will try manually copying the shiplist/fighterlist from the hardcore server folder into the two locations required in OP to see if that does it... then I can get a baseline after logging in on Hardcore for further compatibility testing and possible mitigations.

Oddly, the OP+4 files were there, it seems the Hardcore Server installer did not copy its shiplists in on my system for some reason. After a manual copy I imagine I should be able to login now.

(and I'll take a look at The Forge over the weekend Krueg, but it will probably be flatfile with no oci until we get thor rebuilt.)

[Lepton]

I had to direct the hardcore installer to the OP installation folder to get on the server.

[Bonk]

I had to direct the hardcore installer to the OP installation folder to get on the server.

Oho, I see, that explains this batch file (HC_install.bat):

Attrib -r /s /d
md Assets\scripts\HC\Orig1
Copy Assets\scripts\Met*.* Assets\scripts\HC\Orig1
del Assets\scripts\Met_ED*.*
del Assets\scripts\Met_XC*.*
Copy Assets\scripts\HC\Met*.* Assets\scripts
md Assets\specs\HC\Orig1
Copy Assets\specs\shiplist.txt Assets\specs\HC\Orig1
Copy Assets\specs\ftrlist.txt Assets\specs\HC\Orig1
Del Assets\specs\shiplist.txt
Del Assets\specs\ftrlist.txt
Copy Assets\specs\HC\*.txt Assets\specs
md Assets\Models\HC\Orig1
Copy Assets\Models\model.siz Assets\Models\HC\Orig1
Del Assets\Models\model.siz
Copy Assets\Models\HC\model.siz Assets\Models
md MetaAssets\HC\Orig1
copy MetaAssets\shiplist.txt MetaAssets\HC\Orig1
copy MetaAssets\ftrlist.txt MetaAssets\HC\Orig1
del MetaAssets\shiplist.txt
del MetaAssets\ftrlist.txt
copy MetaAssets\HC\*.txt MetaAssets
exit

It will not work unless it is installed to the OP folder... it probably says so right in the installer and I just missed it. (though I do think the "Attrib -r /s /d" on the whole OP installation is excessive and probably unnecessary, there are parameters on the copy command that can be used to overwrite read only files in a non-interactive batch if I recall correctly.)

Anyway, I got on the server and now I see the Vista-ized Dynaverse y'all been talking about. That is frustratingly close to working.

I'll uninstall the Hardcore Server package and reinstall it to my OP folder to make sure all the right files are in place. Then the real diagnostics can begin. I'm very curious to see what the Standard User Analyser has to say about such a Dynaverse session.

[Bonk]

(though I do think the "Attrib -r /s /d" on the whole OP installation is excessive and probably unnecessary, there are parameters on the copy command that can be used to overwrite read only files in a non-interactive batch if I recall correctly.)

Ya, here it is, it is the /Y switch:

C:\Users\user>copy /?
Copies one or more files to another location.

COPY [/D] [/V] [/N] [/Y | /-Y] [/Z] [/L] [/A | /B ] source [/A | /B]
     [+ source [/A | /B] [+ ...]] [destination [/A | /B]]

  source       Specifies the file or files to be copied.
  /A           Indicates an ASCII text file.
  /B           Indicates a binary file.
  /D           Allow the destination file to be created decrypted
  destination  Specifies the directory and/or filename for the new file(s).
  /V           Verifies that new files are written correctly.
  /N           Uses short filename, if available, when copying a file with a
               non-8dot3 name.
  /Y           Suppresses prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
               existing destination file.
  /-Y          Causes prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
               existing destination file.
  /Z           Copies networked files in restartable mode.
  /L           If the source is a symbolic link, copy the link to the target
               instead of the actual file the source link points to.

The switch /Y may be preset in the COPYCMD environment variable.
This may be overridden with /-Y on the command line.  Default is
to prompt on overwrites unless COPY command is being executed from
within a batch script.

To append files, specify a single file for destination, but multiple files
for source (using wildcards or file1+file2+file3 format).

and similarly for the del command it is the /F switch:

C:\Users\user>del /?
Deletes one or more files.

DEL [/P] [/F] [/S] [/Q] [/A[[:]attributes]] names
ERASE [/P] [/F] [/S] [/Q] [/A[[:]attributes]] names

  names         Specifies a list of one or more files or directories.
                Wildcards may be used to delete multiple files. If a
                directory is specified, all files within the directory
                will be deleted.

  /P            Prompts for confirmation before deleting each file.
  /F            Force deleting of read-only files.
  /S            Delete specified files from all subdirectories.
  /Q            Quiet mode, do not ask if ok to delete on global wildcard
  /A            Selects files to delete based on attributes
  attributes    R  Read-only files            S  System files
                H  Hidden files               A  Files ready for archiving
                I  Not content indexed Files  L  Reparse Points
                -  Prefix meaning not

If Command Extensions are enabled DEL and ERASE change as follows:

The display semantics of the /S switch are reversed in that it shows
you only the files that are deleted, not the ones it could not find.

Some of these switches are new to Vista, but I think the COPY /Y and DEL /F go right back to DOS 5.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Well I'm home for the thanksgiving week, and back on my network that wont give me the firewall, so I'll also explore with this on my Vista Ultimate laptop

[Bonk]

I'm running trials with the Compatibility Administrator. A screenshot of my current set of applied fixes is attached (and the database zipped with 7-zip [I added .7z to the allowed attachments as it will save us bandwidth in the long run]), but does not seem to do it. I'm starting to wonder about the QoS Packet Scheduler in Vista and what can be done with it. (I think Pestalence may have tried removing it already, but I'm wondering about using it to set priority on the directplay ports...)

[Bonk]

Dammit, QoS management is achieved with group policy settings in vista, so it appears it is not possible in non-domain versions of Vista, like my copy of Home Premium. Great.

There is WinTC though, I wonder if it runs on Vista?    edit\; nah, using WinTC would not make any sense. I don't think enabling QoS on my linksys would really help either... QoS = red herring. (?)

[Pestalence_XC]

Bonk.. QoS enabled, disabled, removed.. no go.. never tried porting through QoS.

how would I go about doing that?

[Lepton]

Dumb question, how does one apply these fixes that you've enclosed in the sdb file?  I've opened the file in the Compatibility Administrator, but I don't see any option to apply the fixes other than running the starfleetop.exe from the CompatAdmin.

[Bonk]

Bonk.. QoS enabled, disabled, removed.. no go.. never tried porting through QoS.

how would I go about doing that?

Group policy editor... (start...run...gpedit.msc) It's in there somewhere... bear with me....
(if your start menu is not configured to show the run item use  the windowskey+r to get the run dialog. Or the group policy editor can be found through the computer management mmc snap in as well.

I've tried turning off the windows firewall and stopping its service, as well as placing the windows sockets dlls from XP in the OP folder, no go with either...

Found this along the way, looks most interesting and could be part of our problem.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc434701.aspx

other related pages:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/cc512738.aspx
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/network/bb530836.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/WFP.mspx