Topic: Vista users.. Need testers to verify Vista Fix for Dynaverse

[Pestalence_XC]

OK

Thanks to Bonk pointing something out to me a few moments little while ago, I decided to try something I hadn't tried before.

OK.. Installation Rules Simplified

1. Turn Off Anti-Virus

2. Install Game, say no to Gamespy Arcade and DirectX

3. Patch using v2.5.5.2

4. Go to your Starfleet Command Orion Pirates directory, right click the folder, select properties
   
   a. In Security Tab, click Edit and set all users to Full Access, Click OK when done.

   b. Go to General Tab, Uncheck Read only, Click OK, in pop up window, click all files and folders and click OK.

5. Go inside the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates folder, find all the EXE files, right click and select properties (you have to do each file individually). Select the Compatibility tab, click Compatibility Mode for XP SP 2 and Check Run as Administrator. Click OK

6. Find the SFCOP.exe file rename it to SFCOP.old.

7. Find the StarfleetOP.exe

   a. Right click and select Copy.. go to desktop and right click, select Paste.

   b. Rename StarfleetOP.exe to SFCOP.exe

   c. right click file, select Cut, go back to Starfleet Command Orion Pirates folder and right click, select Paste. (This keeps GSA compatibility)

8. Right click this file and select Copy, go to desktop and select Paste Shortcut.

9. Install OP + v4.0

10. Install the Enhanced DLL files.

11. From here you can install any extra scripts, models, enhancement packages, server installers, etc..

12. Make sure yo edit your Gamespy Arcade settings for Orion Pirates to launch from the SFCOP.exe file from now on.

13. Make sure your DirectX is up to date.. Latest version is November 2008.

14. Preferrably try playing with Anti-virus turned off and Firewall Disabled or ported correctly.

====================================================================

As a side note.. Server kits will need to have the SFCOP.exe file added to Validate Client Files.

Currently Hardcore is up and online for Vista Testing... DB has been reset.

Now if you are still having movement problems on the Dynaverse .. then you may want to install Microsoft Application Compatibility Toolkit 5.0 and the Microsoft Application Verifier to ensure compatibility..

Vista has compatibility set up for the SFCOP.exe file but does not recognize the StarfleetOP.exe file.. by renaming the StarfleetOP.exe file to SFCOP.exe, Vista applies the compatibility fixes to the main program file.. As such, I just had 6 missions on Hardcore without incident.. Movement on the server seemed normal to me as well as resupply, shipyards, viewing ships, repairs, news, map updating after missions, instant DV info.. everything..

I believe the same fix can be applied to Empires at War as well.

I need others to test and confirm that this work around indeed works as it is showing on my end.

[knightstorm]

I can't wait to try this out!  YOU ARE AWESOME!!!

[Pestalence_XC]

Installer located at

http://warpcore.110mb.com/Downloads/Hardcore_Installer.zip


If you already used the installer, all you need is the updated scripts.

http://warpcore.110mb.com/Downloads/HC_Scripts.zip

[Braxton_RIP]

If this does turn out to work, let me know and I will see about setting up an installer of sorts to complete the process automatically.

[Bonk]

Very interesting... Steps 7 and 8 of your instructions are a little confusing though. But I think I know what you mean.

Perhaps we could just get MS to add StarFleetOP.exe to the compatibility database in addition to SFCOP.exe? I know you can manually edit that database yourself, but then we would have to distribute it... (if this actually works out).

I will attempt to give this a try tonight.

[Pestalence_XC]

OK.. Today i am getting mixed results.. I launch 1 game.. and play for 2 hours.. works flawlessly..

then I launched after i got back from shopping and it ws working like it did before with lagging.

But I think we are getting a bit closer.. Bonk.. we need to see about the mitigation and  virtualization of OP and see if we can get more compatibility.

I have a few other tricks up my sleeve, but I need help with this.

[Bonk]

Indeed, I'm here for ya buddy! I'll get testing tonight, I just have to take care of some communications with Symantec and Grisoft first.

[Bonk]

This hardcore shiplist is not the same as this one?:
http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads.php?id=57&game=SFC2%20OP
 

[Pestalence_XC]

No.. I'm using DieHard's shiplist from AOTK 4 with matching ftrlist and the few extra models needed for Diehard's shiplist, as based on OP + v4.0.

to play, you need patch 2.5.5.2, OP + v4.0, and then the Hardcore installer. DLL update recommended.

the XC Hardcore shiplist is not Dynaverse compatible.. it is a GSA shiplist only.

[Bonk]

the XC Hardcore shiplist is not Dynaverse compatible.. it is a GSA shiplist only.

Duh... right, I forgot!

I ran the Hardcore Server Installer, but I'm still getting a bad shiplist and fighterlist CRC. (I have not implemented your compatibility scheme yet to establish a baseline)

[toasty0]

Vista Ultimate with duo core and 3 gigs ram.

Not sure if I have the install disc anymore though. Let me know.

[FPF-DieHard]

Vista Ultimate with duo core and 3 gigs ram.

Not sure if I have the install disc anymore though. Let me know.

Bit Torrent!!!   

[Pestalence_XC]

To be on the safe side, I re-upped the installer and the scripts.

the installer has all the files included.

Bonk.. make sure that you have full access set for the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates Folder in the properties of the folder itslef.

If need be, run the installer in elevated mode (right click and select "Run as Administrator")

[toasty0]

To be on the safe side, I re-upped the installer and the scripts.

the installer has all the files included.

Bonk.. make sure that you have full access set for the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates Folder in the properties of the folder itslef.

If need be, run the installer in elevated mode (right click and select "Run as Administrator")

When you write that you re-upped the install files are you referring to somewhere on D.Net?

[Pestalence_XC]

No, to the links above.. they are on my hosting site.

I need to get with Bonk or Frey so that I can access FTP transfers to D.Net... I lost my old account sign in information.

[Lepton]

Dumb question.  How do we know that SFCOP.exe is compatible with Vista and StarFleetOP.exe is not?  I haven't had any problems playing OP on GSA and it references starfleetop.exe.  Sounds like placebo effect to me.

[Lepton]

Movement was as slow as ever with the suggested steps.  I didn't feel the need to go beyond that.  This was with the PC in the DMZ, so ports were of no concern.  No firewalls.  Anti-virus on.

[Pestalence_XC]

By using the Microsoft Application Compatibility Toolkit 5.0 and going into Compatibility Administrator in Admin mode, this shows the compatibility executables that Vista has programmed into it (at least the basics).

Now by the picture at the bottom of this post, you cn see SFCOP.exe being set with compatibility shims in the Vista Environment, however StarfleetOP.exe does not have any such entry, thus Microsoft did not include compatibility shims for StarfleetOP.exe

Now GSA, TCP/IP will not be effected at all with the compatibility shims with the Vista install instructions provided.

It was my hope that Single Player (slight lag when map updates after mission) and Dynaverse would be more coorporative with using Vista's native compatibility by replacing SFCOP.exe with the game's proper executable renamed.

Now this did solve the minor lagging in Single Player, and 2 of 4 tests on the Dynaverse, the game worked like it did under XP.. however the other 2 tests on my end had the same lagging effect as before.

Now Bonk and I are looking at the Executable and what we need to do to fix the errors with the calls the EXE does.. and seeing if applying Mitigations and also seeing if removing OP from Virtualization under Vista will fix some problems.

Anyhow, here is the screen shot for the Native SFCOP.exe shims ... Maybe submitting OP to Microsoft and letting them look at the game with their tools can provide maybe a OP Vista Hotfix in the near future.. I will see if I can get ahold of them tomorrow.

[Bonk]

Bonk.. make sure that you have full access set for the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates Folder in the properties of the folder itslef.

If need be, run the installer in elevated mode (right click and select "Run as Administrator")

I had set the permissions, didn't run it as admin though. I was pooped last night and passed out at 8:30! I'll give it another go tonight.

I need to get with Bonk or Frey so that I can access FTP transfers to D.Net... I lost my old account sign in information.

Frey is in charge of the FTP server, so he'll need to update your account. You can use the community account to send to the various "upload" folders or use the Library Upload front page to upload to a specific folder for now. (note that both the ftp server and the upload page are configured to use the ClamAV virus scanner, so this would be a good opportunity to see if our reports on the Clickteam false positives have been added to the definitions.)

Dumb question.  How do we know that SFCOP.exe is compatible with Vista and StarFleetOP.exe is not?  I haven't had any problems playing OP on GSA and it references starfleetop.exe.  Sounds like placebo effect to me.

You're my favorite Dynaverse critic, we can always count on you to cut to the chase. Yer a good old curmudgeon Lepton.    (That is a sincere compliment.)

I think this avenue is worth further investigation, as the virtualisation is definitely an issue, if you look at the "compatibilty files" for some of the OP folders, I can see that OP is not going to lke that at all. Thanks for testing, and I'm sure we can count on you for other tests. I will have The Forge up again soon and will be taking a much closer look at OP on Vista, and if this approach does not help then we'll try something else until we find something that does work!

[Bonk]

I think you may be going about this the wrong way with the file renaming scheme, and as Lepton suspected I think there was a placebo effect, as the GameUX compatibility fix applies to the Game Explorer gameux.dll which I believe does not apply in this case.

In experimenting with launching OP from the Standard User Analyser I have pretty much established that virtualisation must be disabled for OP and all related installers - as when launching with virtualisation disabled, no WinXP compatibility or elevation, the D2 login works just like it did on WinXP - bang I'm right into the serverlist. But when I try to login to the Hardcore server, it says the scripts are not there, but they are...  or were... I need to establish that in the procecss of a clean install with appropriate compatibility settings for the OP install, patch and mods.

So I think the correct approach is to establish exactly what compatibility mitigations are required and create a custom database for the Compatibility Administrator and distribute it (and update it with each new mod installer.... ugh). I suspect that the OP install location will be an issue though.

The summary of this first experiment is attached. The Standard User Analyser Wizard also suggested another mitigation or two...

I think ditching Vista's virtualisation features is the key here, OP wants access to its own files - the actual files - not some virtualised copies... based on this experience I'm confident we can get it working with tenacious persistence.

What the hell was microsoft thinking? This is not how user space is implemented. Sheesh, you'd think none of them had ever worked on a *nix box. They went way over the top in trying to do it in an original and "compatible" way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think they were just too proud to copy the tried and true methods. Look where it got them.

[KBFLordKrueg]

 ...I will have The Forge up again soon....

ThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyou
 

[Bonk]

Pestalence, are you running that server on Vista or XP? I suspect this will affect your observations. I think we should be testing the client on Vista connected to a server running on XP or Server 2003. Then once we have the client running reliably on Vista, then take a look at the server end on Vista or Server 2008 (with Vista and XP clients).

[Bonk]

Hmmm... I suspect we'll have much better success installing to somewhere like "C:\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates" to avoid the file virtualisation "features" associated with the usage of "C:\Program Files\".  I beleive I will try that now. This should result in a folder created by the installer with the user's permissions not requiring any custom settings or permissions modifications to overcome Vista's "virtualisation".  Then how to simply overcome the registry virtualisation?  I suppose both could be achived with compatibility mitigations but that requires stuff complicated for the average user to implement. Hmmm...

http://blogs.technet.com/richard_macdonald/archive/2007/05/18/990366.aspx

Application Manifest. If the application has an associated manifest file (embedded or external) that contains the new requestedExecutionLevel entry, Windows assumes the application has been written specifically for Windows Vista and thus will deal appropriately with security restrictions.

Oho... NSIS is capable of "the new requestedExecutionLevel entry", I can remake some mods like SFB-OP and the new XC Hardcore installer with the appropriate setting in the script, and use it in all new mod installers. I wonder if Firesoul would be willing to recompile the OP+4 NSIS installer with this setting as well (or provide the original installer script and files)?

From the NSIS docs:

4.8.1.32 RequestExecutionLevel
none|user|highest|admin
Specifies the requested execution level for Windows Vista. The value is embedded in the installer and uninstaller's XML manifest and tells Vista, and probably future versions of Windows, what privileges level the installer requires. user requests the a normal user's level with no administrative privileges. highest will request the highest execution level available for the current user and will cause Windows to prompt the user to verify privilege escalation. The prompt might request for the user's password. admin requests administrator level and will cause Windows to prompt the user as well. Specifying none, which is also the default, will keep the manifest empty and let Windows decide which execution level is required. Windows Vista automatically identifies NSIS installers and decides administrator privileges are required. Because of this, none and admin have virtually the same effect.

It's recommended, at least by Microsoft, that every application will be marked with the required execution level. Unmarked installers are subject to compatibility mode. Workarounds of this mode include automatically moving any shortcuts created in the user's start menu to all users' start menu. Installers that need not install anything into system folders or write to the local machine registry (HKLM) should specify user execution level.

More information about this topic can be found at MSDN. Keywords include "UAC", "requested execution level", "vista manifest" and "vista security".

Oh, wait, I see it says that Vista recognises NSIS installers and elevates them anyway. 

Edit: but I notice it is not elevating NSIS uninstallers, as the shortcuts that were removed on uninstall on XP are remaining in Vista.

[Pestalence_XC]

Pestalence, are you running that server on Vista or XP? I suspect this will affect your observations. I think we should be testing the client on Vista connected to a server running on XP or Server 2003. Then once we have the client running reliably on Vista, then take a look at the server end on Vista or Server 2008 (with Vista and XP clients).

Server kit is not effected by either XP or Vista.. both OS run the server kit perfectly..

I have been running it on Vista.. but I can raboot into XP and run the server from it if need be.

[Bonk]

Server kit is not effected by either XP or Vista.. both OS run the server kit perfectly..

I wouldn't be so sure... part of that report attached above is what made me ask:

******** Registry (2)

[ 1 ]
                   Severity : Error
                      Noise : No
                 Executable : starfleetop.exe.0
              Registry Path : \REGISTRY\MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\WinSock2\Parameters
                        API : RegOpenKeyExA
   Work with Virtualization : No

[ 2 ]
                   Severity : Error
                      Noise : No
                 Executable : starfleetop.exe.0
              Registry Path : HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\WinSock2\Parameters
                        API : RegOpenKeyExA
   Work with Virtualization : No

I expect the serverkit would encounter similar difficulty with registry virtualisation.

[Bonk]

I just uninstalled all my sfc stuff and am going to install it all under C:\SFC\* and resume testing.

[Pestalence_XC]

Well, I ran AOTK 4 on Vista with no issues what so ever from players using XP clients

When I did run it on XP, the only problem was a mistake I made with the DB and it corrupted.

Other than that.. absolutely 0 issues on the server kit..

I even ran the server kit inside and outside the Program Files (x86) folder for virtualization and without.. no effect what so ever.. I just set the Process Sentinel and Server Platform exec files to XPSP 2 compatibility and to run as administrator..

flawless execution.

Also Vista clients have the exact same problem on XP based servers as they experience on Vista based servers.. there is no difference.. I get the same results on The Forge when it was up as I do on Hardcore or Strayy's Tavern (Strayy is running Vista as well for the servers)

the problem I believe is completely client based.. as XP users had 0 issues playing Hardcore on Vista or XP.

[Pestalence_XC]

I just uninstalled all my sfc stuff and am going to install it all under C:\SFC\* and resume testing.

Agreed.. I just did the same thing.. I'm going to see how the game responds when being directly in the C directory.. hopefully the 64 bit OS doesn't mess things up.

[Bonk]

Well, I ran AOTK 4 on Vista with no issues what so ever from players using XP clients

When I did run it on XP, the only problem was a mistake I made with the DB and it corrupted.

Other than that.. absolutely 0 issues on the server kit..

I even ran the server kit inside and outside the Program Files (x86) folder for virtualization and without.. no effect what so ever.. I just set the Process Sentinel and Server Platform exec files to XPSP 2 compatibility and to run as administrator..

flawless execution.

Also Vista clients have the exact same problem on XP based servers as they experience on Vista based servers.. there is no difference.. I get the same results on The Forge when it was up as I do on Hardcore or Strayy's Tavern (Strayy is running Vista as well for the servers)

the problem I believe is completely client based.. as XP users had 0 issues playing Hardcore on Vista or XP.

Thanks for filling me in, I was not around for AOTK 4.

[Lepton]

If you look at the matching files for SFC2 or SFC1, they look complete, whereas those for OP does not include starfleetop.exe but does include a completely random weapongroups file.  I think somebody made a boo-boo.

[Bonk]

If you look at the matching files for SFC2 or SFC1, they look complete, whereas those for OP does not include starfleetop.exe but does include a completely random weapongroups file.  I think somebody made a boo-boo.

I noticed that as well... I think somebody took the virtualised "compatibility files" from their single test and used those, as when under file virtualisation all the weaponsgroup files get written to the virtualised location (any fille that gets written to does, like sfc.ini, scripts.lst, auto1.rec, etc...)



I did my reinstall like so (with the following result):

1) created folder "C:\SFC" with full permissions for all users
2) ran Setup.exe from the CD as admin - installed OP to "C:\SFC\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates"
3) ran SFCOP_Patch_2500-2552.exe as admin
4) ran setup-ezini.exe as admin - installed to "C:\SFC\KhoroMag Gaming Services\EzINI"
5) ran opplus_40_models.exe as admin (verifying OP installation folder)
6) ran OP_DLL_Updater.exe as admin (full install, verifying OP installation folder)
7) ran opplus_40_hc_setup.exe as admin (verifying OP installation folder)
8) ran sfcdirect_setup.exe as admin - installed to "C:\SFC\SFC Direct"
9) ran Hardcore_Installer.exe as admin - installed to "C:\SFC\Hardcore Server"
10) ran 7-zip as admin - extracted HC_Scripts.zip to "C:\SFC\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\Assets\Scripts\"
11) ran EzINI v1.0 from the desktop shortcut (not as admin) and set resolution and preferences
12) ran OP from start menu shortcut, not as admin, entered CD key (it used to remain on XP... registry virtualisation I assume), played a multiplayer TCP/IP game against AI to get windows firewall exeption prompt which I allowed after exiting the game (the directplay helper exception remained as it had not changed)
13) ran OP from start menu shortcut, not as admin, logged into dyna - got slow login - three clicks on back button - login button appeared
14) tried to login to hardcore - got bad shiplist and fighterlist crc....

I will try manually copying the shiplist/fighterlist from the hardcore server folder into the two locations required in OP to see if that does it... then I can get a baseline after logging in on Hardcore for further compatibility testing and possible mitigations.

Oddly, the OP+4 files were there, it seems the Hardcore Server installer did not copy its shiplists in on my system for some reason. After a manual copy I imagine I should be able to login now.

(and I'll take a look at The Forge over the weekend Krueg, but it will probably be flatfile with no oci until we get thor rebuilt.)

[Lepton]

I had to direct the hardcore installer to the OP installation folder to get on the server.

[Bonk]

I had to direct the hardcore installer to the OP installation folder to get on the server.

Oho, I see, that explains this batch file (HC_install.bat):

Attrib -r /s /d
md Assets\scripts\HC\Orig1
Copy Assets\scripts\Met*.* Assets\scripts\HC\Orig1
del Assets\scripts\Met_ED*.*
del Assets\scripts\Met_XC*.*
Copy Assets\scripts\HC\Met*.* Assets\scripts
md Assets\specs\HC\Orig1
Copy Assets\specs\shiplist.txt Assets\specs\HC\Orig1
Copy Assets\specs\ftrlist.txt Assets\specs\HC\Orig1
Del Assets\specs\shiplist.txt
Del Assets\specs\ftrlist.txt
Copy Assets\specs\HC\*.txt Assets\specs
md Assets\Models\HC\Orig1
Copy Assets\Models\model.siz Assets\Models\HC\Orig1
Del Assets\Models\model.siz
Copy Assets\Models\HC\model.siz Assets\Models
md MetaAssets\HC\Orig1
copy MetaAssets\shiplist.txt MetaAssets\HC\Orig1
copy MetaAssets\ftrlist.txt MetaAssets\HC\Orig1
del MetaAssets\shiplist.txt
del MetaAssets\ftrlist.txt
copy MetaAssets\HC\*.txt MetaAssets
exit

It will not work unless it is installed to the OP folder... it probably says so right in the installer and I just missed it. (though I do think the "Attrib -r /s /d" on the whole OP installation is excessive and probably unnecessary, there are parameters on the copy command that can be used to overwrite read only files in a non-interactive batch if I recall correctly.)

Anyway, I got on the server and now I see the Vista-ized Dynaverse y'all been talking about. That is frustratingly close to working.

I'll uninstall the Hardcore Server package and reinstall it to my OP folder to make sure all the right files are in place. Then the real diagnostics can begin. I'm very curious to see what the Standard User Analyser has to say about such a Dynaverse session.

[Bonk]

(though I do think the "Attrib -r /s /d" on the whole OP installation is excessive and probably unnecessary, there are parameters on the copy command that can be used to overwrite read only files in a non-interactive batch if I recall correctly.)

Ya, here it is, it is the /Y switch:

C:\Users\user>copy /?
Copies one or more files to another location.

COPY [/D] [/V] [/N] [/Y | /-Y] [/Z] [/L] [/A | /B ] source [/A | /B]
     [+ source [/A | /B] [+ ...]] [destination [/A | /B]]

  source       Specifies the file or files to be copied.
  /A           Indicates an ASCII text file.
  /B           Indicates a binary file.
  /D           Allow the destination file to be created decrypted
  destination  Specifies the directory and/or filename for the new file(s).
  /V           Verifies that new files are written correctly.
  /N           Uses short filename, if available, when copying a file with a
               non-8dot3 name.
  /Y           Suppresses prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
               existing destination file.
  /-Y          Causes prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
               existing destination file.
  /Z           Copies networked files in restartable mode.
  /L           If the source is a symbolic link, copy the link to the target
               instead of the actual file the source link points to.

The switch /Y may be preset in the COPYCMD environment variable.
This may be overridden with /-Y on the command line.  Default is
to prompt on overwrites unless COPY command is being executed from
within a batch script.

To append files, specify a single file for destination, but multiple files
for source (using wildcards or file1+file2+file3 format).

and similarly for the del command it is the /F switch:

C:\Users\user>del /?
Deletes one or more files.

DEL [/P] [/F] [/S] [/Q] [/A[[:]attributes]] names
ERASE [/P] [/F] [/S] [/Q] [/A[[:]attributes]] names

  names         Specifies a list of one or more files or directories.
                Wildcards may be used to delete multiple files. If a
                directory is specified, all files within the directory
                will be deleted.

  /P            Prompts for confirmation before deleting each file.
  /F            Force deleting of read-only files.
  /S            Delete specified files from all subdirectories.
  /Q            Quiet mode, do not ask if ok to delete on global wildcard
  /A            Selects files to delete based on attributes
  attributes    R  Read-only files            S  System files
                H  Hidden files               A  Files ready for archiving
                I  Not content indexed Files  L  Reparse Points
                -  Prefix meaning not

If Command Extensions are enabled DEL and ERASE change as follows:

The display semantics of the /S switch are reversed in that it shows
you only the files that are deleted, not the ones it could not find.

Some of these switches are new to Vista, but I think the COPY /Y and DEL /F go right back to DOS 5.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Well I'm home for the thanksgiving week, and back on my network that wont give me the firewall, so I'll also explore with this on my Vista Ultimate laptop

[Bonk]

I'm running trials with the Compatibility Administrator. A screenshot of my current set of applied fixes is attached (and the database zipped with 7-zip [I added .7z to the allowed attachments as it will save us bandwidth in the long run]), but does not seem to do it. I'm starting to wonder about the QoS Packet Scheduler in Vista and what can be done with it. (I think Pestalence may have tried removing it already, but I'm wondering about using it to set priority on the directplay ports...)

[Bonk]

Dammit, QoS management is achieved with group policy settings in vista, so it appears it is not possible in non-domain versions of Vista, like my copy of Home Premium. Great.

There is WinTC though, I wonder if it runs on Vista?    edit\; nah, using WinTC would not make any sense. I don't think enabling QoS on my linksys would really help either... QoS = red herring. (?)

[Pestalence_XC]

Bonk.. QoS enabled, disabled, removed.. no go.. never tried porting through QoS.

how would I go about doing that?

[Lepton]

Dumb question, how does one apply these fixes that you've enclosed in the sdb file?  I've opened the file in the Compatibility Administrator, but I don't see any option to apply the fixes other than running the starfleetop.exe from the CompatAdmin.

[Bonk]

Bonk.. QoS enabled, disabled, removed.. no go.. never tried porting through QoS.

how would I go about doing that?

Group policy editor... (start...run...gpedit.msc) It's in there somewhere... bear with me....
(if your start menu is not configured to show the run item use  the windowskey+r to get the run dialog. Or the group policy editor can be found through the computer management mmc snap in as well.

I've tried turning off the windows firewall and stopping its service, as well as placing the windows sockets dlls from XP in the OP folder, no go with either...

Found this along the way, looks most interesting and could be part of our problem.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc434701.aspx

other related pages:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/cc512738.aspx
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/network/bb530836.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/WFP.mspx

[Lepton]

I tried to run starfleetop.exe from CompatAdmin with your fixes.  When I clicked Log In after clicking multiplayer, it crashed to desktop.

[Bonk]

Dumb question, how does one apply these fixes that you've enclosed in the sdb file?  I've opened the file in the Compatibility Administrator, but I don't see any option to apply the fixes other than running the starfleetop.exe from the CompatAdmin.

I think that is it, just select the "Starfleet Command Orion Pirates" entry in the Custom database in the Compat admin, the select the StarFleetOP.exe in the pane on the right and press the run button in the toolbar. I have not had a chance to test and see if these compaitibilty shims remain in place when the Compat Admin is not running. (If so there should be a console window that pops up and disappears as you start OP from outside the compat admin  - but you may need to edit the StarFleetOP.exe entry to point to your install location for that to work - pure speculation - also note none of these settings has provided the desired effect, but the NoVirtualisation setting can only help as far as I am concerned)

[Bonk]

I tried to run starfleetop.exe from CompatAdmin with your fixes.  When I clicked multiplayer, it crashed to desktop.

Interesting, it does not crash for me with these settings. Try removing a bunch of the fixes, and just leave the straightforward ones, novirtualisation, nothemes, noanimations, etc... if you don't know what a fix means try removing it. THere may be fixes there that do not apply to your setup (i.e. if you have disabled aero.. etc.)

Part of what we are dealing with here is that Vista is not one operating system, but many, as evidenced by the various states of crippledness (if you will) of each version.

Which version of Vista do you have?

Also bear in mind I have had no success as yet, this is all trial and error.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

humm, well I've only had a little time to work with this, but I'm getting more stable results by starting via the default of SFCOP.exe instead of StarfleetOP.exe o.O
So far though I move slower then usual in movement, but nothing really bad(doesn't lag at all, just takes about an extra second to move from hex to hex then it did on XP).. no lag when coming out of missions either.
so far the only thing Vista really takes its time with is when I move at the same time news generates..
will continue testing

[Bonk]

That sounds promising, but I have had similar experiences, randomly serverlist login works sometimes and not others, sometimes movement and supply is fine and not others...

I'm trying this approach now:

Stopped Services:

Windows Firewall
UPnP Device Host (+ Windows Media Network Sharing Service)
Base Filtering Engine (+ IPSec Policy Agent + IKE and AuthIP IPsec Keying Modules)

A non-crippled version of vista should be able to configure these services with policies instead of just stopping the services.

[Bonk]

I've removed the XP sockets dlls from my OP folder.

Stopping those services is getting me past the firewall check reliably now (was having a heck of a time all night with that).

I'm paring down my compatibilty fixes list. (Lepton, there is a service that chaches them and applies them I believe - so they should still be in effect when riining StarFleetOP.exe from outside the compat admin).

But now the security check won't start and I get the countdoen on server login. I'll try restarting the Base Filtering Engine (+ IPSec Policy Agent + IKE and AuthIP IPsec Keying Modules) services, but leaving the Windows Firewall and UPnP Device host stopped.

[Bonk]

I tried to run starfleetop.exe from CompatAdmin with your fixes.  When I clicked Log In after clicking multiplayer, it crashed to desktop.

Note, I'm running the CompatAdmin as admin.

I'm not having much luck tonight though, I starting to think that running under Wine on Kubuntu is a better bet. There have been a number of new Wine versions since I last tested it.

I'll keep kicking Vista around for a while though. I think I better cleanup, reboot and start fresh in the morning though, as now I cannot even get logged into the server.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Keep trying. It takes me about 2 or 3 "join" attemts before it lets me in.. sometimes it starts to "initilize security" right away, but most of the time I'm finding it take 2 to 3, sometimes up to 5 before it'll do it. Usually initilizes around counter countdown between 1:45-1:27 for me.

[Bonk]

Keep trying. It takes me about 2 or 3 "join" attemts before it lets me in.. sometimes it starts to "initilize security" right away, but most of the time I'm finding it take 2 to 3, sometimes up to 5 before it'll do it. Usually initilizes around counter countdown between 1:45-1:27 for me.

I'm considering that a compatibility failure, similar to the behaviour observed when actually logged in.

But I will definitely give it another round tomorrow. So far, Vista 1, Bonk 0. 

[Bonk]

I'm going to try an be a little more systematic about it today. Here is the list of dependencies of StarFleetOP.exe on Vista (generated by PE Explorer):

// File name: C:\SFC\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\StarFleetOP.exe
// Created  : 22:11:2008 08:23
// Type     : Dependencies


activeds.dll      c:\windows\system32\activeds.dll
adsldpc.dll      c:\windows\system32\adsldpc.dll
advapi32.dll      c:\windows\system32\advapi32.dll
advpack.dll      c:\windows\system32\advpack.dll
apphelp.dll      c:\windows\system32\apphelp.dll
atl.dll         c:\windows\system32\atl.dll
authz.dll      c:\windows\system32\authz.dll
bcrypt.dll      c:\windows\system32\bcrypt.dll
browseui.dll      c:\windows\system32\browseui.dll
cabinet.dll      c:\windows\system32\cabinet.dll
certcli.dll      c:\windows\system32\certcli.dll
cfgmgr32.dll      c:\windows\system32\cfgmgr32.dll
clbcatq.dll      c:\windows\system32\clbcatq.dll
comctl32.dll      c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.6001.18000_none_5cdbaa5a083979cc\comctl32.dll
comdlg32.dll      c:\windows\system32\comdlg32.dll
credui.dll      c:\windows\system32\credui.dll
crypt32.dll      c:\windows\system32\crypt32.dll
cryptui.dll      c:\windows\system32\cryptui.dll
cscapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\cscapi.dll
dbghelp.dll      c:\sfc\taldren software inc\starfleet command orion pirates\dbghelp.dll
dciman32.dll      c:\windows\system32\dciman32.dll
ddraw.dll      c:\windows\system32\ddraw.dll
devmgr.dll      c:\windows\system32\devmgr.dll
dhcpcsvc.dll      c:\windows\system32\dhcpcsvc.dll
dhcpcsvc6.dll      c:\windows\system32\dhcpcsvc6.dll
dinput.dll      c:\windows\system32\dinput.dll
dnsapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\dnsapi.dll
dsound.dll      c:\windows\system32\dsound.dll
duser.dll      c:\windows\system32\duser.dll
dwmapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\dwmapi.dll
efsadu.dll      c:\windows\system32\efsadu.dll
feclient.dll      c:\windows\system32\feclient.dll
fwpuclnt.dll      c:\windows\system32\fwpuclnt.dll
gdi32.dll      c:\windows\system32\gdi32.dll
gdiplus.dll      c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.windows.gdiplus_6595b64144ccf1df_1.0.6001.18065_none_9e7abe2ec9c13222\gdiplus.dll
gpapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\gpapi.dll
gpsvc.dll      c:\windows\system32\gpsvc.dll
iertutil.dll      c:\windows\system32\iertutil.dll
imagehlp.dll      c:\windows\system32\imagehlp.dll
imm32.dll      c:\windows\system32\imm32.dll
iphlpapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\iphlpapi.dll
kernel32.dll      c:\windows\system32\kernel32.dll
ktmw32.dll      c:\windows\system32\ktmw32.dll
linkinfo.dll      c:\windows\system32\linkinfo.dll
mfc42u.dll      c:\windows\system32\mfc42u.dll
mlang.dll      c:\windows\system32\mlang.dll
mmdevapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\mmdevapi.dll
mpr.dll         c:\windows\system32\mpr.dll
mprapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\mprapi.dll
msasn1.dll      c:\windows\system32\msasn1.dll
msctf.dll      c:\windows\system32\msctf.dll
msiltcfg.dll      c:\windows\system32\msiltcfg.dll
msimg32.dll      c:\windows\system32\msimg32.dll
msrating.dll      c:\windows\system32\msrating.dll
mss32.dll      c:\sfc\taldren software inc\starfleet command orion pirates\mss32.dll
mssign32.dll      c:\windows\system32\mssign32.dll
msvcrt.dll      c:\windows\system32\msvcrt.dll
ncrypt.dll      c:\windows\system32\ncrypt.dll
netapi32.dll      c:\windows\system32\netapi32.dll
netplwiz.dll      c:\windows\system32\netplwiz.dll
netrap.dll      c:\windows\system32\netrap.dll
newdev.dll      c:\windows\system32\newdev.dll
nlaapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\nlaapi.dll
normaliz.dll      c:\windows\system32\normaliz.dll
nsi.dll         c:\windows\system32\nsi.dll
ntdll.dll      c:\windows\system32\ntdll.dll
ntdsapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\ntdsapi.dll
ntshrui.dll      c:\windows\system32\ntshrui.dll
odbc32.dll      c:\windows\system32\odbc32.dll
ole32.dll      c:\windows\system32\ole32.dll
oleacc.dll      c:\windows\system32\oleacc.dll
oleaut32.dll      c:\windows\system32\oleaut32.dll
oledlg.dll      c:\windows\system32\oledlg.dll
powrprof.dll      c:\windows\system32\powrprof.dll
printui.dll      c:\windows\system32\printui.dll
propsys.dll      c:\windows\system32\propsys.dll
psapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\psapi.dll
puiapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\puiapi.dll
query.dll      c:\windows\system32\query.dll
rasapi32.dll      c:\windows\system32\rasapi32.dll
rasdlg.dll      c:\windows\system32\rasdlg.dll
rasman.dll      c:\windows\system32\rasman.dll
regapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\regapi.dll
rpchttp.dll      c:\windows\system32\rpchttp.dll
rpcrt4.dll      c:\windows\system32\rpcrt4.dll
rtutils.dll      c:\windows\system32\rtutils.dll
samlib.dll      c:\windows\system32\samlib.dll
scecli.dll      c:\windows\system32\scecli.dll
secur32.dll      c:\windows\system32\secur32.dll
setupapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\setupapi.dll
shdocvw.dll      c:\windows\system32\shdocvw.dll
shell32.dll      c:\windows\system32\shell32.dll
shlwapi.dll      c:\windows\system32\shlwapi.dll
slc.dll         c:\windows\system32\slc.dll
sysntfy.dll      c:\windows\system32\sysntfy.dll
tapi32.dll      c:\windows\system32\tapi32.dll
urlmon.dll      c:\windows\system32\urlmon.dll
user32.dll      c:\windows\system32\user32.dll
userenv.dll      c:\windows\system32\userenv.dll
uxtheme.dll      c:\windows\system32\uxtheme.dll
version.dll      c:\windows\system32\version.dll
w32topl.dll      c:\windows\system32\w32topl.dll
winbrand.dll      c:\windows\system32\winbrand.dll
windowscodecs.dll   c:\windows\system32\windowscodecs.dll
winhttp.dll      c:\windows\system32\winhttp.dll
wininet.dll      c:\windows\system32\wininet.dll
winmm.dll      c:\windows\system32\winmm.dll
winnsi.dll      c:\windows\system32\winnsi.dll
winscard.dll      c:\windows\system32\winscard.dll
winspool.drv      c:\windows\system32\winspool.drv
winsta.dll      c:\windows\system32\winsta.dll
wintrust.dll      c:\windows\system32\wintrust.dll
wldap32.dll      c:\windows\system32\wldap32.dll
ws2_32.dll      c:\windows\system32\ws2_32.dll
wsock32.dll      c:\windows\system32\wsock32.dll
wtsapi32.dll      c:\windows\system32\wtsapi32.dll
xmllite.dll      c:\windows\system32\xmllite.dll

The text report does not show the tree, nor all the function calls, but that info is available through the UI with a PE loaded in the program. (see attached images)

I'm going to dig through all the calls and see what fixes are in the Compatibility Administrator for them.

I'm thinkning about the OLE, RPC and GDI calls as the main suspects right now. GDI might be a really good candidate (as SFHQ indicated in a PM, this could all just be a UI issue) since there have been major changes to GDI in Vista. (also the suspect for Artifex [and virtualisation])

[Bonk]

Not much luck going that route today...

I am now running wireshark to analyse the network traffic, but Hardcore is not in the serverlist at the moment. It will take some time to analyse the captures but it might provide some useful information.

[Pestalence_XC]

Hardcore is back up.. I just took a few moments to update my NVidia 8800GTX vid card.

GeForce Release 180 WHQL
Version: 180.48
Release Date: November 19, 2008
Operating System: Windows Vista 64-bit
Language: U.S. English
File Size: 90.9 MB

Exciting New Features:

•Enables NVIDIA SLI technology on SLI-certified Intel X58-based motherboards with the following GPUs: GeForce GTX 280, GeForce GTX 260, GeForce 9800 GX2, GeForce 9800 GTX+, and GeForce 9800 GTX. Learn more here.
•Enables NVIDIA SLI Multi-monitor support, giving you the ability to use two monitors with your GeForce graphics cards in SLI mode. Now you can easily switch between multi-monitor desktop mode and full screen 3D gaming mode. Learn more here.
•Enables NVIDIA PhysX acceleration on a dedicated GeForce graphics card. Use one card for graphics and dedicate a different card for PhysX processing for game-changing physical effects. Learn more here. (Note: GPU PhysX is supported on all GeForce 8-series, 9-series and 200-series GPUs with a minimum of 256MB dedicated graphics memory. This driver package automatically installs PhysX System Software version 8.10.13).

Blazing Fast Performance:

•Boosts performance in numerous 3D applications. The following are some examples of improvements measured with Release 180 WHQL drivers vs. Release 178 WHQL drivers (results will vary depending on your GPU, system configuration, and game settings):
◦Up to 10% performance increase in 3DMark Vantage (performance preset)
◦Up to 13% performance increase in Assassin's Creed
◦Up to 13% performance increase in BioShock
◦Up to 15% performance increase in Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts
◦Up to 10% performance increase in Crysis Warhead
◦Up to 25% performance increase in Devil May Cry 4
◦Up to 38% performance increase in Far Cry 2
◦Up to 18% performance increase in Race Driver: GRID
◦Up to 80% performance increase in Lost Planet: Colonies
◦Up to 18% performance increase in World of Conflict

And More:

•Supports single GPU and NVIDIA SLI technology on DirectX 9, DirectX 10, and OpenGL, including 3-way and Quad SLI technology.
•Supports CUDA.
•Supports Folding@home distributing computing application. Download the high performance client for NVIDIA GPUs here and join the NVIDIA team: #131015.
•Supports GPU overclocking and temperature monitoring by installing NVIDIA System Tools software.
•Includes numerous 3D application compatibility fixes. Please read the release notes for more information on product support, features, driver fixes and known compatibility issues.



Anyhow.. while I was at it, I updated by system drivers as well.. plus added the new NVidia EAS Performance toolkit (this one gives control of your GPU cooling fan back for 8 and 9 series cards.. a great plus since the driver default is 60% instead of 100%)

This thing has returned to being smoking fast on applications agin.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

I'm not going to have enough time this week to fully explore possible issues with actual UI updating till after about the 16th of December when Ill then have 3 weeks off to work on it some more, but I just really if it is network issues based on the behavior of Vista on OP Dyna and looking at my network activity, and indeed what were seeing is shadowing onto the network side of client code, making it appear to be issues with network communication(will do a bit more exploring after I've had dinner.. for right now though I'm starving! ).

[Bonk]

Looking at the packet trace of a firewall detected login, two things jump out at me:

- I see one of the old Taldren IPs (must still be in one of the directory,firewall,chat server configs): 216.203.248.212 (I think that is what it is?)
- I see SSDP (UPnP related crap) packets right in the middle of a discussion with heimdall...

(I'm running OP with no compatibilty settings at all, just installed to C:\SFC\*)

I will now take another look at the directory servers settings to find any of the old Taldren IPs (I thought I killed them all).
And I will stop the SSDP service on my Vista install.

But first I'm going to get another pack of smokes and some pop and chips, I'll need them.

P.S. I have modified my WONServerSetup.gf like so:

[WONDirectoryServer/Addresses]
0="client.sfc.dynaverse.net:15101"
//1="client.dynaverse.net:15101"
//2="sfc2.directory.stasis.ca:15101"

[Bonk]

Well, I can't find that IP address anywhere in the configs, it must be hard-coded in.

And stopping the SSDP service did not get rid of the SSDP spam packets. Something else in Vista must be responsible for them.

And my ginger-ale tastes more like garlic-ale, I can't drink it!     

I'm thinking I'll install Kubuntu, investigate the current state of OP on Wine and run wireshark on it to compare the results to see if it is really Vista to blame or if it is my router.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

every couple of times I do get
A firewall has been detected
Unable to locate directory services

message. I'm including my wireshark log for that particular message if you wish to compare it to yours(.pcap file)

[Bonk]

Cool, thanks, I'll take a look at that. A capture log from a successful XP login would probably be useful too.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

humm, well I think I still have my XP wireshark here I did a while ago on this same connection(cant get on my XP box right now to do it again) let me look for it...

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Ah! found it! Remembered I uploaded it up to the server a while ago for safe keeping
http://www.xenocorp.net/sfhq/Thedebug2.txt
is the wireshark log I did a while ago after you killed the other firewall entries and on my XP box on this same connection.

[Bonk]

Good work SFHQ!

Interesting, there are a few SSDP packets at the beginning, but none in the middle of the negotiation with the directory server like we see on Vista. (and the 216.203.248.212 IP address is present in both...)

I'm beginning to think that UPnP/SSDP/VistaNetworkDiscovery may be the issue here, still pure speculation at this point though.

A wireshark log of a session on the hardcore server correlating the times of slow movement etc., with the packet capture log time index might be instructive, but tricky to pull off, would need an accurate digital stopwatch and a fast hand.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

hummm, dual screen monitor setup perhaps?

I've never run OP or any other game on dual screen, since I only have 1 desktop screen, but I do have a spare CRT monitor I can hook up to my laptop, and if wireshark and OP will run correctly on dual screens then I might be able to correlate the timestamps better with slow movement... this'll be something for me to try tomorrow I guess(don't really feel like going deep into the closet of the Ancients tonight(yes that is how old and how stuffed the closet is here), that's an epic journey and search for a silly CRT moniter )

[Lepton]

It's been suggested in other contexts that switching off network discovery and IPv6 support can help in gaming applications with Vista.

[Bonk]

Ya, a dual monitor setup would make it easier to observe for sure. (I have run OP on one of two monitors on a Matrox dual display card back in ~'01.)

It's been suggested in other contexts that switching off network discovery and IPv6 support can help in gaming applications with Vista.

Definitely worth a try, but I think Pestalence may have already tried that, not sure if he turned off network discovery though.

***

I have been on one heck of a roller coaster ride since my last post last night. I thought I'd give Kubuntu 8.10 (amd64) a try on my laptop and see how OP would do under the latest Wine, just for a break from messing with Vista, and this is how it went...

1) Use Disk Management to shrink main Vista partition by 20GB to make room for a Kubuntu install. Went fine.
2) Realised I had downloaded the i386 Kubuntu when I have an AMD 64 bit processor, so I download the amd64 Kubuntu (though either would work).
3) Burn the amd64 Kubuntu to disk, leave it in the drive and reboot.
4) GRUB bootloader comes up, cool.. let the default Kubuntu entry boot, but what's this, the laptop's CD/DVD drive has not spun up, how can this be?
5) Realise I'm booting from my old IDE hard disk (in a USB external enclosure - light flashing), thinking oh crap it's got proprietary Nvidia drivers installed, it will never boot to the desktop on this ATI laptop...
6) Panic and shut down the laptop mid boot from the old disk in the USB enclosure...
7) Turn off the USB disk, figuring OK, now I can boot the laptop from the Kubuntu DVD to install...
8 ) Turn on the laptop, it powers up, LEDs light, nothing happens, no BIOS screen - nothing! (drop brick in pants)
9) Think, OK the GRUB bootloader disabled the MBR on the laptop's disk, (assuming laptop has one of those on-disk BIOSs) no problem, I'll just boot to the Kubuntu console from the IDE-USB disk, fix the MBR, shutdown and pick up where I left off, remembering to turn off the IDE-USB disk before booting up again.
10) Try step 9 - blank screen - no bios - nothing... (drop second brick in pants...)
11) Think, OK disconnect the IDE-USB disk and try booting from the Kubuntu 8.10 amd64 disk - nothing - again no BIOS, nothing! (think about crying)
12) Oh wait, I made recovery disks! Put recovery disk one in the laptop and power up, nothing... no bios, no bootloader, nothing!
13) OK, so I bricked it, poop! Get out good book and start reading distractedly and smoking fiercely, then sleep fitfully.
14) Wake up think, OK I was going to buy a cheapy desktop for the SFB-OP server anyway, might as well get it today and an external usb enclosure for the laptop disk so I can fix its MBR and boot from it's (assumed) on-disk bios.
15) Do laundry, make bread, take shower, wait for Future Shop to open, get on bus...
16) Buy Compaq Presario - Intel dual core CPU, 3GB RAM, 320GB HDD - ought to do fine - good buy at $550 (Check in store - has full on-chip Phoenix BIOS). Get USB external enclosure for laptop disk @ $75 - go home happy and determined.
17) Get home, open boxes, plug everything in, new desktop boots past BIOS, says "NO DISK, OR SYSTEM DISK ERROR, INSERT DISK, PRESS ANY KEY" (or however that message goes)
18) Think oh crap - I'm jinxed! Think out scenarios of returning the machine - store closes in two hours, takes me almost 1 hour to get there... maybe return it tomorrow? Shall I get my book and smokes out?
19) Open new desktop case, find HDD power cable not connected, connect it and boot up... marvel at all the crapware installed, thinking it's going to take me ages to clean all that crap off... ah well at least it works, might as well make the recovery disks before I clean it up and use it to fix the mbr on the laptop disk.
20) Start recovery disk creation, while underway remove the battery from the laptop, remove the hard disk and open up the usb enclosure...
21) Find out the usb enclosure is for an OTB drive, not a laptop ATA drive... crap, oh well I can return it and get the right enclosure elsewhere so I can fix the mbr and resume my Vista on OP testing where I left off tomorrow...
22) Put the hard disk back in the laptop, put in the battery... start packing it up.
23) Think what the heck, let's see if it boots with no CD in the drive or USB disk attached...
24) Power up laptop, see BIOS screen - JOY! It boots!
25) Make post on this thread telling whole sad story.
26) Make excuses to Krueg about why The Forge is not up today. (I'm assuming he'll understand - I need a working OP client to test from)
27) Ruminate on what to do next - eat dinner and clean up the crapware on the desktop, scared to try installing Kubuntu on the laptop now, don't want to boot XP or Kubuntu from the IDE-USB disk as I don't want to screw up it's config as I intend to put it back in it's own case once I get it moved down here... think up domain names for my new commercial account...
28) Breath sigh of relief, consider bank balance and evaluate sanity (admit to self - yup, nuts - carry on!).

            

[Pestalence_XC]

Bonk, did you ever even consider my Dual Boot guide?

Do I have to teach you everything?


End of step 2

Now that Kubuntu has installed, remove your Kubuntu disk and put in your Vista disk and restart your system and allow the system to boot from CD. If you do not tell your computer to boot from CD, the computer will lock because it cannot find the boot directory on the Vista drive. You will either need to reset your computer or press ctrl+alt+del for the system to reboot. Make sure that your Bios is set to read Floppy first, CD ROM second and HDD last, this way you get the CD Load request on restart.


Step 3 - Fix Boot Loader:
When loading from CD, Vista will load the GUI files, and then display the loading splash screen. Click Next to continue for language. Usually this is default based on your bios settings.

Once the "Install Now" menu (do not click Install Now) displays, choose "Repair Your Computer" near the bottom of the window.

You will be prompted to choose the OS to repair. Don't worry if Vista is the only OS that shows up, even after a search. Vista should be the only OS showing up in most cases.

Click "Next" to get to the repair utilities.

Click on Command Prompt. This will load Vista’s dos command line utility.

In the command prompt window, type the following 2 lines (separately). Make sure that your typing is exact or it will not work (capitol letters are not usually needed), Wait for the successful completion message to appear between each command:

Bootrec.exe /fixMBR
Bootrec.exe /fixBoot

-close the command prompt, remove the Vista disk, and restart.
-Your system should now boot to Vista.

Step 4 - Edit boot.ini:
Go into your start menu and look in Programs>Accessories and find your Command Prompt (CMD)
-Right click on CMD and select Run as Administrator. You must run this in Administrator mode otherwise the commands will not take effect.
Be sure to type each line carefully (replace C in the first line with the drive containing your Vista installation):
bcdedit /set {ntldr} device partition=C:
bcdedit /set {ntldr} path \ntldr
bcdedit /displayorder {ntldr} /addlast
bcdedit /set {ntldr} description "Microsoft Windows XP"
*Note the following 2 answers from bcdedit for each item are acceptable:
"The Operation Completed Successfully"
"The Specified Entry Already Exists"


You can substitute Kubuntu in place of "Microsoft Windows XP"

Then you get the selection of the OS upon reboot, and then you can enter Kubuntu and finish getting set up.


Man you like doing things the hard way don't you.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

wow, that is one epic roller coaster indeed!! o.O

bit of new results to display, before I stick in the dual moniter to run the packet analyzer...

I turned off SSDP Discovery Service..
Result: MUCH easier time logging into Dyna, BUT as well MUCH bigger lag then I was getting before.

When I turn on SSDP Discovery Service..
Result: MUCH harder time logging into Dyna, BUT as well MUCH LESS lag moving around and stuff then I was getting with service turned off

[Bonk]

Bonk, did you ever even consider my Dual Boot guide?

Yes. Still mulling it over. But the goal for now is to get the client working on Vista. Probably will install both XP and Kubuntu eventually (for development as well as playing), once I'm sure this laptop actually has a bios chip and not one of those on-disk bioses like some of the old Compaq laptops. I Intend to put XP and Kubuntu alongside Vista on this beast, once I'm sure it has a real bios, can't seem to find it in the specs anywhere (and it does have a bios sized EISA partition at the head of the disk), I might have to take it apart to find out, but laptops are a bitch to disassemble down to the mainboard.

I did have the "bios" set to read the CD before the hard disk, (actually, floppy[not present], flash, CD, HDD, network - that order [ever deal with a bootp server and network boots? - I have...]) but I suspect that the bios is on the hard disk, so if its mbr is gone then there is no bios to boot a CD see? Also, I have no Vista disk, just OEM Restore disks I burned myself. (though you mentioned something about extracting a vista install image from them somewhere - haven't gotten to that yet, and am not sure I will be able to). Have you ever come across an on-disk bios and understand how it works? The mbr is set to boot to its partition, it runs and then boots the appropriate partition as selected or determined by settings priority, so if the mbr on the disk that the bios resides on gets borked, that is it, you have to re-image the drive on another machine.

Do I have to teach you everything?

Yeah, I know the drill, trust me, I've been multi-booting systems for decades. My old pentium 233MHz had Win95b, QNX, FreeBSD, DOS5 and Slackware on one disk. (but it had a real on-chip flashable bios and a floppy drive, I built the system myself - these are the first computers I've owned that I have not built myself.) I haven't been at it for a while and these newer systems throw me a bit.

Man you like doing things the hard way don't you.

Yup!    (thanks for the tips though )

wow, that is one epic roller coaster indeed!! o.O

bit of new results to display, before I stick in the dual moniter to run the packet analyzer...

I turned off SSDP Discovery Service..
Result: MUCH easier time logging into Dyna, BUT as well MUCH bigger lag then I was getting before.

When I turn on SSDP Discovery Service..
Result: MUCH harder time logging into Dyna, BUT as well MUCH LESS lag moving around and stuff then I was getting with service turned off

Interesting observation SFHQ, I wonder if it is repeatable.

I just tried a login with Network Discovery off and the SSDP Discovery and UPnP services off - long login, had to click back button multiple times, then got the image attached (never saw that before - damn thing couldn't make up its mind). After logging in, movement and supply was slow as usual.

But while I was logged in and chatting with Mace, I remembered these settings in the client WONServerSetup.gf:

Code: [Select]

BlockSize = 10000 // How many micro-seconds to spend on server side stuff before doing page flip
DelayMultiple = 1.0 // What multiple of time to wait before going back to server side stuff
PacketQueLimit = 75 // What
Might try playing with those.

It also occurred to me, that Pestalence may have impedance values set on the map and the client actually heeds them on vista where it does not on earlier versions of windows? (I doubt it though, the default impedance is 1). Did you add impedence values to the map Pestalence?

[toasty0]

Hopefully I can join you guys in your efforts in the next couple of days. Been doing a wicked fun install of SQL Server 2008 on a VPC. The SQL server install wasn't so bad, it was the 10^(2*123)^¹⁰ patches and services pack I had to apply to the WinServer03 base that took so freaking long.   

[Bonk]

I noticed your site was borked yesterday, figured it was something like that. Sounds like fun!  Me, I can't wait to get apache/php/MySQL setup on my new desktop. Curious to see how Vista will respond.

[Bonk]

I see it's working now, but man, the sound has got to go, that is a big no-no! 

[toasty0]

Oh that Flash? I'm hacking that for a client.

What can I say. It's what he'll pay for.

[Bonk]

Noscript gave me this when I right clicked the flash object (might want to check that out):

edit: oh wait, it just looks like its related to it's placement - don't you just love css?

[toasty0]

Oh great. Another issue goes into the bug tracker.

[Bonk]

I might be my imagination, but these settings seemed to help login, supply and shipyard (but not movement and map updates):

Code: [Select]

BlockSize = 1000 // How many micro-seconds to spend on server side stuff before doing page flip
DelayMultiple = 1.0 // What multiple of time to wait before going back to server side stuff
PacketQueLimit = 200 // What
But I forgot to run Wireshark tonight, I'll try and duplicate this result tomorrow and capture a packet log of it.

[Pestalence_XC]

Impedence on the server is 1 on all hexes.. haven't played with them.

Now for the WonServerSetup.gf, I haven't tried adjusting those settings, will give them a shot tonight.

[Bonk]

Impedence on the server is 1 on all hexes.. haven't played with them.

Cool, thought I'd ask, it would be neat if it actually worked!

Now for the WonServerSetup.gf, I haven't tried adjusting those settings, will give them a shot tonight.

Client side, of course.

[Pestalence_XC]

OK was playing with the SFC.INI file some

Setup:

Vista 64 Bit (32 bit just as fine.. on x64 OS, the working folder will be in Program Files (x86).. on 32 bit it will be just plain Program Files) however it is all same concept.

Installed game as Administrator (Explore the CD, Right click on Setup.exe and select Run as Administrator)to C:\Program Files (x86)\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates

Used the Enhancement Pack v5.1 to update game completely with all tools and features, Ran in XPSP 2 Compatibility mode and as Administrator.

After the Enhancement Package tossed out the installers and the black Dos Window came up, I went into C:\Program Files (x86)\Taldren Software Inc\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\Installs and eant file by file setting to XPSP 2 compatibility and setting Run as Administrator.. I then backed out to the Program Files (x86) folder and right click on the Taldren Software inc folder, selected Properties, clicked on Security Tab, clicked Edit, and set each user to Full Access. Then I went back to the General Tab and unchecked Read Only.

Went back to the Black dos Window.. and installed the Enhancement Package as normal I installed everything except EZ-INI (I am using the 2.0 and the Enhancement pack has the 1.0) During install process, when Mod Chooser installed, I set Comp[atibility to XPSP 2 and Run as administrator on the program's desktop shortcut and then I continued to install with the Command Prompt box)

After the install was done, I went to each shortcut that the Enhancement Pack created and I set them all to XPSP 2 compatibility and set each file to Run as Administrator. The only exception is Mod Viewer, I set it to Win 2000 compatibility and Run as Administrator. I also checked the Run and Start Up path to make sure they were pointing to the correct Program Files folder (I think XP and 32 bit users may need to adjust these by removing the (x86) along with the preceeding space in both the Run and Start IN boxes if the files are not pointing to Program Fi.les

I then edited my WonServerSetup.gf file

BlockSize = 1000
DelayMultiple = 1.0
PacketQueLimit = 125

[WONDirectoryServer/Addresses]
0=client.sfc.dynaverse.net:15101
//1=client.dynaverse.net:15101
//2=sfc2.directory.stasis.ca:15101

I then ran EZ-INI 2.0, set everything I wanted.

I then opened the SFC.ini file directly to verify changes.

Under Networking I altered

NetLib=0 (was Netlib=1)

Under 3D I altered Wireframe=1 to Wireframe=0, Driver=1 to Driver=0, zbuffer=0 to zbuffer=1

Under UI I altered UITyep=2 to UI=1

I also altered for voices and turning sound down and set max channels to 64.

On my NVidia Card on the graphic settings for 3D, I set it up as the screenshot below.

SSDP is set to manual in Services, but it is started.

Then I copied the StarfleetOP.exe file to a different folder, renamed it to SFCOP.exe, Cut and then pasted to overwrite the game's original file.

I went back to the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates folder and rechecked properties for Read Only, and turned it off again, and I also rechecked Security tab and ensured everyone had full access.

I then went back into the OP game directory and went to every EXE file and set them to XPSP 2 compatibility and Run as Administrator.

I then installed the Hardcore Installer (you don't need the script pack.. the installer contains the current scripts) in XPSP 2 compatibility and as Administrator,, making sure that I directed the Installer to the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates foler.

I launched game from Game Explorer (Windows Vista built in game tracking system.. OP happened to be in there, checked the launch path, which pointed to the SFCOP.exe game file).

I entered CD Key and let the game load.

I then logged in to the Dynaverse and it felt just like being on XP.



Honestly I think what worked was setting UIType to 1 instead of the default 2 and turning Driver=1 into Driver=0 and turning WireFrame=1 to Wireframe=0 and the Netlib=1 to Netlib=0


I need to test it out more and have others test it here.. so far, it is a winner.. I have not had any lagging with this config so far, but I want others to try this setup and see if it works properly for them or not.

[Pestalence_XC]

OK.. I am still getting a little bit of lagging, but no where near what it was.. I'm going to try disabling QoS and Microsoft Sharing Folders (printer etc.)

I'll post back tomorrow with new results.

[Age]

I am not sure if this would help but if you went into your SFCOP desktop Icon in properties and in the start up force it to run in dx9.This happened to me in GuildWars as my graphics were giving me problem so some over at guildwarsincgamers told me to run it in dx8 although I have 90c.It worked out fine so wouldn't changing it from 10 to 9 or 90c in the start up work?

[Bonk]

OK.. I am still getting a little bit of lagging, but no where near what it was.. I'm going to try disabling QoS and Microsoft Sharing Folders (printer etc.)

I'll post back tomorrow with new results.

You forgot the Nvidia settings screenshot in your previous post.

The trick with all of these experiments is to be able to duplicate results, of course.

I also wonder if not installing the dll updates might make a difference, We have not tried that yet(?), XP may have failed gracefully on incompatible calls where vista will not.

[Pestalence_XC]

You forgot the Nvidia settings screenshot in your previous post.

The trick with all of these experiments is to be able to duplicate results, of course.

I also wonder if not installing the dll updates might make a difference, We have not tried that yet(?), XP may have failed gracefully on incompatible calls where vista will not.

OOps, guess I did miss something..

However I had much less lag in the game. I tried with Video turned down and Video maxed out.. the screen shot below are my usual settings, but I cranked the settings even higher than usual testing last night.. Video card settings made no difference in performance.

The only lag I got ws when I returned from a mission.. and it happened only 1 time.. Further testing is needed, but the SFC.ini file definately has some effect on the game.

I guess you can try the default DLLs but the DLLs I use come from SFC III, and SFC III is Vista compliant with little to no compatibility adjustments. I don't see how adjusting the DLL files in the game folder is going to effect the networking negatively, but maybe it will.. who knows.. I guess I'll try that later this evening then.

Anyhow, here are my standard settings in the NVidia Control Panel.

[Bonk]

Just re-read, your post above, I admire your persistence Pestalence. Good work.

I suspect that the NetLIB setting in the ini file may be most related, as well as the block size and packet queue in the gf.

I will try those in combination tonight. It seems to me the there was a logging setting for the netlib in the ini as well? I used to use it on XP and it consistently logged a single directx error if I recall correctly.

The dlls thing is just a hunch, but since OP was compiled against earlier versions of the libraries, it just makes sense to give it a try.

[Pestalence_XC]

OK, I think I got it now.

In the SFC.INI file

Syncwait=60

Changed to Syncwait=10

also since I am launching from Game Explorer with the Modified SFCOP.exe file (the renamed StarfleetOP.exe), I turned off XPSP 2 compatibility mode.. but kept administrator checked.

Just played 3 missions with 0 lag on return.

Had a doozy of a mission .. no delay on repairs, map movement, supply, coming out of battle, going into battle.

Need for someone to verify my configuration on their end..


Welp time for some screen shots from my last battle..

3 Roms in Neb

R-SHR, R-BHR, and R-SKL

Me I'm in a F-CB (not the suped up one.. just a regular one)

Phaser boating in a Neb with 3 plas chucking Roms.. killed all 3 in about 50 Min.

Twas much fun.. I thought NW was going to make the scripts hard .. lol

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

I'll try some of these setting shortly.. just need to finish eating lunch here..

[Pestalence_XC]

See, for months I have been working with OP and vista from the stand point that the problem was in Vista..

It may just be the way the game configures in the SFC.ini and putting the built in compatibility of the SFCOP.exe game file onto the StarfleetOP.exe game file.. by duplicating the StarfleetOP.exe game file and renaming it and replacing the original SFCOP.exe game file.

Game Explorer I think enables those compatibility settings because I get a different result when I try to launch the file directly.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

OK, bit of positive news, is that for the times I didn't lag in movement, I did seem to move a bit faster between hexes, but

still a majority of the time, I still got the usual ammount of lag in moving and out of mission lag

[Bonk]

Did you leave your previous edits to the sfc.ini in place Pestalence? Or reset them and just changed the syncwait? Are the gf edits still in place?

Too many variables changing at once here, it would be nice to pin it down to one or two things that make the difference. Or more accurately put, it would be good to know what settings are making the difference if it is reproducible. (This is scientist Bonk speaking...)

The other thing to be aware of is that the serverkit sees clients on the lan differently, and that the gf blockwait and ini syncwait may work well locally, but not necessarily so over the internet. Also, if these settings make the difference, we'll want to evaluate the effect on the serverkit load.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I just want to be systematic about this and figure out exactly what is going on (if possible), and get the simplest reproducible fix possible.

I will try to duplicate your results after dinner tonight, doing so by adding one or two settings at a time until I see improvement.

This is encouraging, it sounds like we might just nail this down soon.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Just so it is known,

Under 3D I altered Wireframe=1 to Wireframe=0, Driver=1 to Driver=0, zbuffer=0 to zbuffer=1

When I went to my sfc.ini file, mine was already set to
Wireframe = 0
Driver = 0
zbuffer = 1

from the start

[Bonk]

That is the normal, depends on the video drivers present. (as enumerated by directx, 0=first driver, 1=second... etc.)

It would be nice to know exactly what this GameUX compatibility shim does, I cannot seem to find it documented anywhere, and everytime I google it I keep hitting this thread! (that drives me nuts...  )

I'm off to start my trials, will report results soon.

[Bonk]

Pestalence, for reference, what do you have the movement rate set to on Hardcore?

Using these ini setttings:

Code: [Select]

[Network]
NetDebug=1
NetLib=0
SimProtocol=0
MulticasterServer=0
NetDbgFile=1
SynchWait=10

[Meta]
TestPatchUtility=0

... and these gf settings:

Code: [Select]

BlockSize = 1000 // How many micro-seconds to spend on server side stuff before doing page flip
DelayMultiple = 1.0 // What multiple of time to wait before going back to server side stuff
PacketQueLimit = 125 // What

I seem to be getting consistently good serverlist and server login results (for the first time), but still slow movement. I have not applied any other "fixes" aside from installing to C:\SFC\* (no sfcop.exe renames or game explorer launch, nor admin, nor xp compat)
edit: and windows firewall still on and SSDP and UPnP services still running and Network discovery still on...

Enabling the net debug to file gives me this in dpnetdbg.txt:

Windows API Call Failed

A single entry for one Dyna session. I saw the same thing on XP as I recall.

I'm curious about the SimProtocol=0 ini setting, have not played with that, I think I'll set it to one and see what, if anything, happens.

[Bonk]

Setting SimProtocol=1 did not seem to do anything.

Still one entry in dpnetdbg.txt for the session - same as last.

Going to try the sfcop.exe rename thing to see if it seems to have an effect on my install as well.

[Bonk]

It occurs to me perhaps we should try increasing blocksize in the gf, I think I'll try that before the sfcop.exe rename thing.

[Bonk]

OK... setting:

Code: [Select]

BlockSize = 100000(0.1 seconds)

seems to have given me smooth map movement for the first time. Looks like you have movement set to the standard of 3 seconds?

This make sense, spend a little more time on serverside stuff, allow longer packet queue...

Still no other compatibility settings or Vista adjustments....

Going to repeat this trial a few times to see if I get consistent results, if so, then I'll start putting settings back to the defaults (the ancialliary ones) I think the key settings here are:

WONServerSetup.gf:

Code: [Select]

BlockSize = 100000 // How many micro-seconds to spend on server side stuff before doing page flip
PacketQueLimit = 125 // What
sfc.ini:

Code: [Select]

[Network]
NetLib=0
SynchWait=10

[Meta]
TestPatchUtility=0

Though I left SimProtocol=1 on for that last trial, which was the first "normal" Dynaverse session I have experienced on Vista.

[Bonk]

Second trial on these settings:

Got firewall message ... back button .. try again.. got login button... server countdown...  poop.

Going to try setting SimProtocol back to 0 and try again... (all else same).

[Bonk]

Third try, firewall message on three attempts. I'll try the sfcop.exe rename thing and launching through the game explorer now.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Ohhhh, now here is some improvement:

On Dyna login, got the login "gamespy check complete" button at XP speed(almost immediatly)( I do need to try this a couple of more  times, it could have been completly random, but that was the fastest it ever has done for me)
No change on Server Countdown
No lag a couple of time on initial loading of map
Movement speeds greatly increased EXCEPT FOR when you move into a hex you haven't been in before and as such causes the game to lag while it works to display the AI ship markers in the surrounding hexes you now have LOS in, but once that is done, and until the next turn comes along moving the AI markers, greatly increased movement speeds(steady, not quite to XP speed, but much nicer)
Still some lag coming out of mission though

[Bonk]

Tried the SFCOP.exe rename/replace thing - not present in game explorer - launched SFCOP.exe directly - got firewall message - exited - unblocked SFCOP.exe at firewall prompt - game now present in game explorer - launched from there - logged in OK - slow supply and slow movement.

Will now try adding in the XP compat and run as admin on exes...

[Bonk]

Got firewall... will try setting Blocksize to 1000 again.

[Bonk]

Got past firewall on second try, then countdown on sserver login. On more trial for tonight: I'll turn off the windows firewall, stop it's service, stop the SSDP and UPnP services and turn of network discovery. Otherwise all my settings should be as Pestalence outlined on page 3 of this thread.

[Pestalence_XC]

OK.. everything I have done.

I have been doing all of this with Firewall Turned off and Anti-Virus turned off.

SSDP, UPnp, and Firewall services sitll automatic and turned on.. however I have Vista's 3 firewall disabled in the Windows Firewall with Advanced Security snap in.. all firewalls disabled.

Also have UPnP in Router enabled.

Installed the game from exploring the CD (not autorun)... by finding the setup.exe and setting the properties on it to XPSP 2 compatibility and run as administrator.

I said no to DirectX 8.0a and said no to Gamespy Arcade.

I set security permissions on the Taldren Software Inc and the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates folders for Full Access to all users and installers.

I removed Read only from the Taldren Software Inc and Starfleet Command Orion Pirates folders.

I patched using OPE v5.1, but all that basically does is put a bunch of installers into the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\Installs folder so you can install them manually or allow the Batch fule I created install them in correct order.

the install method that OPE does installs the installers to the installs folder in the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates directory, when installer exits, black dos window appears..

I go into the installs directory and set all the EXE fiiles to XPSP 2 compatibility and Run as Administrator (except Model Viewer, I set it to Win 2000 compatibility and Administrator).

I go back to the OPE DOS Window.

the installer then runs Patch 2.5.5.2, the Bonus Scripts from Taldren, the DLL files, the community scripts package, The High Resolution Model Package for Fed, Rom and Klink and then Mod Chooser.. I stop right then and there with the DOS Window (don't exit), I set Mod Chooser shortcut to XPSP 2 compatibility and set Administrator.

I continue the installer which will install OP+ 4.0, OP+ 4.0 HC Edition, and helps you configure Mod Chooser in the process of each shiplist just after each is installed, then Shipedit gets installed (and there is a fix that needs to be done with my package because one of the UI's gets fubarred in the install, but the DAT folder is duplicated so it is just a simple Copy paste fix) Set the Shipedit EAW and Shipedit OP to XPSP 2 compatibility and to run as administrator. I also give full access on the EagleEye folder in the security tab to everything listed and I take off Read Only at the same time.

Back in the DOS Window, Co-Op Ace 4.0, Secor Assault (by Mags and Firesoul), Sector Assault by Alpha Centauri, Fleet Pick by Alpha Centauri.. Etc.. the rest of the package.

Basically all it does is installs the stuff you already use plus a crap load of scripts. and the DLL files.

On the desktop Shortcuts, I make sure that the Run and Start In path points to the correct patch for the game install, I also set XPSP 2 compatibility and Run as Administrator on everything except Model Viewer, it needs to be set for Administrator and Win 2000 compatibility. On the ShipEdit shortcuts, I make sure that they are pointing to the EagleEye Software folder.

I then go back to the Taldren Software folder and the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates folder and I double check Security is full access and Read Only is disabled.

Inside the Starfleet Command folder, I find all the EXE files and set them to XPSP 2 compatibility and set Run as Administrator.

I copy the StarfleetOP.exe game file to a different folder, rename it to SFCOP.exe and move the file back and overwrite the one there.

I open the WonServerSetup.gf file and edit

[Settings]

BlockSize = 1000
DelayMultiple = 1.0
PacketQueLimit = 125

and

[WONDirectoryServer]
ServerPath = "/StarFleetCommand2/Game/Release"
//ServerPath = "/StarFleetCommand2/Game/Release"
//ServerPath = "/StarFleetCommand2/Game/Release_Test"

Save file and exit.

I then launch Ez-INI 2.0 in XPSP 2 compatibility and run as administrator ... set resolution, Z buffer, Hide BPV/Race, enable Engine Doubling, set audio to 64 channels, crew sounds max, add GSA name, my common GSA room name, my D2 log in info, set AI to Admiral, Volley info, quick tips, allow screen shots, the rest should already be enabled.

I then go into the SFC.ini file

[Network]
PlayerName=Pestalence_XC
SessionName=Hardcore
SessionType=Starfleet
NetDebug=0
NetLib=0
SimProtocol=0
MulticasterServer=0
NetDbgFile=0
SynchWait=10
AllowEngineDoubling=1
HideRaceFromOthers=1
HideBPVFromOthers=1

[3D]
wireframe=0
windowed=0
zbuffer=1
lowres=3 //(temp due to current monitor)
driver=0
backdrop=1
shipstacking=1
ambientlighting=0.20
luminancetextures=1
luminancedamagetextures=1
spacedust=0



skip to


[UI]
UIType=1
QuickTip=1
Grid=0
OrderDelay=20

[Sound]
voice=3
GlobalVolume=100
MusicVolume=80
VoiceVolume=100
MaxChannels=64
CollisionAlert=0
HeadingDisplay=0
AutoFilm=0
SkipUpsell=1
ASCIICharacterSet=0

[Bonus]
BonusMissions=1

[Debug]
VollyInfo=1
Fps=0
ScreenShot=1

I then find the SFCOP.exe and I take off compatibility mode but I leave Run as Administrator.

I open Game Explorer from Windows and make sure that Orion Pirates shows up, check the settings to make sure that the shortcut is configured properly to above, close it all out.


On my networking :

Router set to DMZ with Wireless pretty much disabled.

Network Protocals has QOS and Printer/File sharing disabled, the rest are checked.


Services turned off :

Certificate Propogation
Distributed Link Tracking Client
NetLogon
Offline Files
Remote registry
SNMP Trap
Tablet PC Input Service
TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper
Terminal Services UserMode Port Redirector
WebClient
Windows Remote Management (WS-Management)
WinHTTP Web Proxy Auto-Discovery Service
Windows Search
Microsoft iSCSI Initiator Service

TMP base services (set to Manual)



Windows Features removed (unchecked):

Remote Differential Compression
Telnet Client
Telnet Server
Windows DFS Replication Service
Tablet PC Optional Components
SNMP Feature

these should be unchecked



Tweaks to system / Network:

Elevated Command Prompt (Command Prompt running as Administrator):

netsh int tcp set global chimney=enabled
netsh int tcp set global rss=enabled
netsh int tcp set global ecncapability=disabled
netsh int tcp set global congestionprovider=ctcp
netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=normal

Registry Entries :

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters\Interfaces\{...}\
MTU=1500 (DWORD, entry does not exist by default)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters\
Tcp1323Opts=1 (DWORD, entry created automatically by Windows when you run the "netsh int tcp set global autotuninglvl=..." command, set to 0 by default)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters
EnableTCPA=1 (DWORD, 1 to enable, 0 to disable NetDMA. Value not present by default in Vista)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management
SecondLevelDataCache=(ammount of 2nd level cache on your CPU)
DECIMAL---------HEXADECIMAL
256 KB-----------100 (hex)
512 KB-----------200 (hex)
1024 KB (1MB)----400 (hex)
2048 KB (2MB)----800 (hex)
4096 KB (4MB)----1000 (hex)
6144 KB (6MB)----1800 (hex)
8192 KB (8MB)----2000 (hex)
12288 KB (12MB)--3000 (hex)
16384 KB (16MB)--4000 (hex)

and that is about it..

Latest device drivers and every update MS has put out to date, plus Nov 2008 DirectX.

Launching game from Game Explorer using the SFCOP.exe file (renamed StarfleetOP.exe) Only running as Administrator with no compatibility enabled.

Hope that this helps.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Increased the following settings:

Code: [Select]

BlockSize = 200000 // How many micro-seconds to spend on server side stuff before doing page flip
PacketQueLimit = 125 // What
no lag on Gamespy login a second time
no lag on initial map load
no lag on moving(but still slightly slower then XP) when not generating or updating Map/AI markers
no lag on shipyard displaying(need to make a bit more prestige before I can test buying a ship though)
Slight lag on coming out of mission, BUT not nearly as bad
lag on logging into server(must do it multiple times still to initilize security and log in)
lag on moving into new hexes you haven't been in before while it generate the AI markers/updates AI markers
lag on news generation
some lag on starting new missions when you first move into a hex, but only when you take it the second you drop into the hex, if you wait a second, then it starts the mission on XP speeds
no problems while in mission

[Bonk]

OK, got firewall first try, good login second try, fast movement at first then slow... getting closer.

I better call it a night, busy day tomorrow.

Tomorrow night I'll try exactly Pestalence's settings in the post above to see what I get.

You getting consistent results on multiple separate Dynaverse sessions with that setup Pestalence? (and thanks for your patience)

[Pestalence_XC]

So far.. doing test 3 now.

[Bonk]

Cool, 3 is the magic number for me. I'll try that setup (as close as I can get on Vista HP) tomorrow night.

[Bonk]

Interesting note: before my last trial, I: "turn off the windows firewall, stop it's service, stop the SSDP and UPnP services and turn of network discovery."

I just went to turn the firewall back on and restart the services and the window firewall was already enabled, it's service started and the UPnP service started, SSDP remained stopped and network discovery remained off.

Something started the windows firewall and UPnP services without asking me.    (Probably just when that slow movement began)

There's a giant hole in UAC if you ask me... I did not authorise that action. I guess I'll need to disable or set those services to manual.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

bit more to add from my last post:
no lag when turn ends and I recieve the ship
some lag on renaming ship
lots of lag selling ship
no lag on resupplying ship unless new generation or map update happens at the same time

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Pesty and I tried out:

MulticasterServer=1 from MulticasterServer=0
 
and

[AIDebug]
AIDebugLevel=0
DebugError=0

in SFC.ini

Additional improvement in Vista lag
Main Lag now comes from:
Coming out of mission causing the hex to flip neutral, or another race, major lag
news updating from someone else flipping a hex, major lag
news updating from someone finishing a mission, minor lag

no lag selling a ship
no lag buying a ship
no lag resupplying a ship
no lag renaming a ship
movement is fine until news comes out
taking missions is fine
coming out of mission that doesn't flip a hex has a touch of lag

[Bonk]

Good work guys. I need to take the night off from OP vista testing tonight, I had to work late and it's too late to get started now. (and I'm pooped) Hopefully I can catch up to where you guys are tomorrow.

[toasty0]

Hey guys. I've been following the thread and it looks like everything is under control, so to speak. So, unless you need the eyes of a total n00b on this one I'll just hang out here on the sidelines and enjoy following your progress.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Good work guys. I need to take the night off from OP vista testing tonight, I had to work late and it's too late to get started now. (and I'm pooped) Hopefully I can catch up to where you guys are tomorrow.

no worries , I'll take tonight to relax some and play some Bridge Commander, and Command and Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath

[Lepton]

OK.. everything I have done.

I have been doing all of this with Firewall Turned off and Anti-Virus turned off.

SSDP, UPnp, and Firewall services sitll automatic and turned on.. however I have Vista's 3 firewall disabled in the Windows Firewall with Advanced Security snap in.. all firewalls disabled.

Also have UPnP in Router enabled.

Installed the game from exploring the CD (not autorun)... by finding the setup.exe and setting the properties on it to XPSP 2 compatibility and run as administrator.

I said no to DirectX 8.0a and said no to Gamespy Arcade.

I set security permissions on the Taldren Software Inc and the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates folders for Full Access to all users and installers.

I removed Read only from the Taldren Software Inc and Starfleet Command Orion Pirates folders.

I patched using OPE v5.1, but all that basically does is put a bunch of installers into the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\Installs folder so you can install them manually or allow the Batch fule I created install them in correct order.

the install method that OPE does installs the installers to the installs folder in the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates directory, when installer exits, black dos window appears..

I go into the installs directory and set all the EXE fiiles to XPSP 2 compatibility and Run as Administrator (except Model Viewer, I set it to Win 2000 compatibility and Administrator).

I go back to the OPE DOS Window.

the installer then runs Patch 2.5.5.2, the Bonus Scripts from Taldren, the DLL files, the community scripts package, The High Resolution Model Package for Fed, Rom and Klink and then Mod Chooser.. I stop right then and there with the DOS Window (don't exit), I set Mod Chooser shortcut to XPSP 2 compatibility and set Administrator.

I continue the installer which will install OP+ 4.0, OP+ 4.0 HC Edition, and helps you configure Mod Chooser in the process of each shiplist just after each is installed, then Shipedit gets installed (and there is a fix that needs to be done with my package because one of the UI's gets fubarred in the install, but the DAT folder is duplicated so it is just a simple Copy paste fix) Set the Shipedit EAW and Shipedit OP to XPSP 2 compatibility and to run as administrator. I also give full access on the EagleEye folder in the security tab to everything listed and I take off Read Only at the same time.

Back in the DOS Window, Co-Op Ace 4.0, Secor Assault (by Mags and Firesoul), Sector Assault by Alpha Centauri, Fleet Pick by Alpha Centauri.. Etc.. the rest of the package.

Basically all it does is installs the stuff you already use plus a crap load of scripts. and the DLL files.

On the desktop Shortcuts, I make sure that the Run and Start In path points to the correct patch for the game install, I also set XPSP 2 compatibility and Run as Administrator on everything except Model Viewer, it needs to be set for Administrator and Win 2000 compatibility. On the ShipEdit shortcuts, I make sure that they are pointing to the EagleEye Software folder.

I then go back to the Taldren Software folder and the Starfleet Command Orion Pirates folder and I double check Security is full access and Read Only is disabled.

Inside the Starfleet Command folder, I find all the EXE files and set them to XPSP 2 compatibility and set Run as Administrator.

I copy the StarfleetOP.exe game file to a different folder, rename it to SFCOP.exe and move the file back and overwrite the one there.

I open the WonServerSetup.gf file and edit

[Settings]

BlockSize = 1000
DelayMultiple = 1.0
PacketQueLimit = 125

and

[WONDirectoryServer]
ServerPath = "/StarFleetCommand2/Game/Release"
//ServerPath = "/StarFleetCommand2/Game/Release"
//ServerPath = "/StarFleetCommand2/Game/Release_Test"

Save file and exit.

I then launch Ez-INI 2.0 in XPSP 2 compatibility and run as administrator ... set resolution, Z buffer, Hide BPV/Race, enable Engine Doubling, set audio to 64 channels, crew sounds max, add GSA name, my common GSA room name, my D2 log in info, set AI to Admiral, Volley info, quick tips, allow screen shots, the rest should already be enabled.

I then go into the SFC.ini file

[Network]
PlayerName=Pestalence_XC
SessionName=Hardcore
SessionType=Starfleet
NetDebug=0
NetLib=0
SimProtocol=0
MulticasterServer=0
NetDbgFile=0
SynchWait=10
AllowEngineDoubling=1
HideRaceFromOthers=1
HideBPVFromOthers=1

[3D]
wireframe=0
windowed=0
zbuffer=1
lowres=3 //(temp due to current monitor)
driver=0
backdrop=1
shipstacking=1
ambientlighting=0.20
luminancetextures=1
luminancedamagetextures=1
spacedust=0



skip to


[UI]
UIType=1
QuickTip=1
Grid=0
OrderDelay=20

[Sound]
voice=3
GlobalVolume=100
MusicVolume=80
VoiceVolume=100
MaxChannels=64
CollisionAlert=0
HeadingDisplay=0
AutoFilm=0
SkipUpsell=1
ASCIICharacterSet=0

[Bonus]
BonusMissions=1

[Debug]
VollyInfo=1
Fps=0
ScreenShot=1

I then find the SFCOP.exe and I take off compatibility mode but I leave Run as Administrator.

I open Game Explorer from Windows and make sure that Orion Pirates shows up, check the settings to make sure that the shortcut is configured properly to above, close it all out.


On my networking :

Router set to DMZ with Wireless pretty much disabled.

Network Protocals has QOS and Printer/File sharing disabled, the rest are checked.


Services turned off :

Certificate Propogation
Distributed Link Tracking Client
NetLogon
Offline Files
Remote registry
SNMP Trap
Tablet PC Input Service
TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper
Terminal Services UserMode Port Redirector
WebClient
Windows Remote Management (WS-Management)
WinHTTP Web Proxy Auto-Discovery Service
Windows Search
Microsoft iSCSI Initiator Service

TMP base services (set to Manual)



Windows Features removed (unchecked):

Remote Differential Compression
Telnet Client
Telnet Server
Windows DFS Replication Service
Tablet PC Optional Components
SNMP Feature

these should be unchecked



Tweaks to system / Network:

Elevated Command Prompt (Command Prompt running as Administrator):

netsh int tcp set global chimney=enabled
netsh int tcp set global rss=enabled
netsh int tcp set global ecncapability=disabled
netsh int tcp set global congestionprovider=ctcp
netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=normal

Registry Entries :

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters\Interfaces\{...}\
MTU=1500 (DWORD, entry does not exist by default)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters\
Tcp1323Opts=1 (DWORD, entry created automatically by Windows when you run the "netsh int tcp set global autotuninglvl=..." command, set to 0 by default)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters
EnableTCPA=1 (DWORD, 1 to enable, 0 to disable NetDMA. Value not present by default in Vista)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management
SecondLevelDataCache=(ammount of 2nd level cache on your CPU)
DECIMAL---------HEXADECIMAL
256 KB-----------100 (hex)
512 KB-----------200 (hex)
1024 KB (1MB)----400 (hex)
2048 KB (2MB)----800 (hex)
4096 KB (4MB)----1000 (hex)
6144 KB (6MB)----1800 (hex)
8192 KB (8MB)----2000 (hex)
12288 KB (12MB)--3000 (hex)
16384 KB (16MB)--4000 (hex)

and that is about it..

Latest device drivers and every update MS has put out to date, plus Nov 2008 DirectX.

Launching game from Game Explorer using the SFCOP.exe file (renamed StarfleetOP.exe) Only running as Administrator with no compatibility enabled.

Hope that this helps.

While this is a laudable effort and well beyond my understanding of its necessity, if this is what is required to play the dynaverse on a Vista machine, then I have no desire to log onto the dynaverse in the future from a Vista machine.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

a lot of this stuff probably can be automated through batch files and stuff, once we find a working combination of settings. So, once the right combination is found, then most likely a batch file, or another some other type of script can be made that'll automate this for the normal user

[Bonk]

I got to thinking about smartheap...

Came across this:
http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=592480

Now looking for a product that has the latest smartheap dlls in it (HA312W32.dll, SHW32.dll)

Currently we're using the versions from SFC3 (which, it is indicated, has no issues with Vista?)

Nevertheless, I'm curious to see what the latest smartheap would do for OP on Vista.

We're using version 6 - they're up to version 9 now. I suspect the Oracle free versions may have it in them.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

We might also want to experiment with this setting in the WONServerSetup.gf

Code: [Select]

SingleThreaded = 1If you think about it some, it seems that basically OP on Vista does fine when there is a single action going, or single thread, but soon as multiple things kick in, then that is when Vista lags.
During Hex Flipping, your not only changing a hex's race, but its DV, and generating a news. Multiple things are also usually printed out during a news gen, while just 1 is printed when there is a DV shift.
I haven't had much time to experiment with this setting, but I'm not exactly sure what this should be set to either.. does setting it to =0 allow for multi-threaded, or does it need to be set to =2, or even does a MultiThreaded = 1 need to be typed into the gf file?
Any thoughts on this?

Interesting thought with the DLL files, they might also end up producing some good results hopefully

[toasty0]

We might also want to experiment with this setting in the WONServerSetup.gf

Code: [Select]

SingleThreaded = 1If you think about it some, it seems that basically OP on Vista does fine when there is a single action going, or single thread, but soon as multiple things kick in, then that is when Vista lags.
During Hex Flipping, your not only changing a hex's race, but its DV, and generating a news. Multiple things are also usually printed out during a news gen, while just 1 is printed when there is a DV shift.
I haven't had much time to experiment with this setting, but I'm not exactly sure what this should be set to either.. does setting it to =0 allow for multi-threaded, or does it need to be set to =2, or even does a MultiThreaded = 1 need to be typed into the gf file?
Any thoughts on this?

Interesting thought with the DLL files, they might also end up producing some good results hopefully

Sorry to burst in here, but is the hardware you're on duo or single core?

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

dual core
See this thread for my laptop specs: http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163347253.msg1122885921.html#msg1122885921
and the post above that for my desktop

[Bonk]

Already tried that one. No joy.

... and single processor systems are capable of multithreading. (I observed thread and handle usage in diagnostics of the OP serverkit on MySQL on single processor systems for ages... I can still feel the pain...)

What might make more sense is to use the SMP version of smartheap on multiprocessor systems.

However, currently I'm working on restoring the original smartheap libraries that OP was linked against, as I am unable to find any freely available applications that use smartheap 9. It is entirely possible that using the version of smartheap from SFC3 that OP was not linked against is what is causing the issues on OP where they do not occur with SFC3 as it was linked against this version (6.0.0.3). I forget which version OP was linked against, I'm trying to dig up the files from my old HDD now.

[Bonk]

OK, I just extracted the original smartheap dlls from the data1.cab file on the OP CD, using i5comp. They are the same version, just an older time/date stamp. So much for that theory.

[Bonk]

Can't get past the firewall check now.    I'll give it a few more cracks tomorrow before I give up, but I think it is time to start working on my XP and Kubuntu partitions if I'm ever going to get the temporary forge up and running soon.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Bonk...not to change the subject for just a post, but...
Is your Avatar a Pic of the Ringworld?
If it's not, it sure looks like it could be.
What an awesome series that was...

[Bonk]

Bonk...not to change the subject for just a post, but...
Is your Avatar a Pic of the Ringworld?
If it's not, it sure looks like it could be.
What an awesome series that was...

Yes, I finished "Ringworld's Children" and "The Ringworld Throne" a few months ago, I read "The Ringworld Engineers" a few years ago. Larry Niven rocks. Most recently I read "Rainbow Mars" - a wild story.

See this thread for where I'm going eventually... I see a server called "Fringe War" (after about a bazillion other projects ):
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163384129.0.html
and this
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163382900.0.html

[Age]

I admire all the work you guys are doing on this especailly Pestalence, Bonk and SFHQ.I am glad I don't have Vista yet if I do I am getting another HDD with it on my system.

[Bonk]

Come now, SFHQ has been very helpful too don't exclude him. But thank you for recognising our efforts, I don't want to seem ungracious.

And now I feel guilty for giving up on it for now. I had all the settings in and was getting the firewall message every time for the last 20 or so tries. Tonight, I set everything back to normal (including restoring the original dlls), got through the firewall check once, then got a countdown on server login, refreshed the list, logged in, got three normal movements and then the lag resumed.

I'm not making any progress here. I'm going to take a break from vista testing. (often if I step back from something for a time a light will come on later with insight not obtainable through the brute force trial and error attempts of the last few days)

I'm going to set up XP and Kubuntu on this laptop (after calling Toshiba to grill them on its BIOS), establish working clients on both so I'll be ready to setup a temporary forge server over the weekend. I also have commitments to work on the gargantuan task of updating this website. Then I have my own server to take care of, the sprites file, the serverkit and EAW source projects, and consultation on another upcoming server or two. I need to move on for now.

Pestalence and SFHQ have been having more success than I, and may just crack this yet.

[Bonk]

Dammit, my XP install disk sees one 130GB partition on the disk, where Vista sees four separate partitions and 35GB unpartitioned space (I allocated 20GB for XP and 15GB for Kubuntu). See attached image. Dammit, Toshiba has done something funky to this disk and OS, well what can you expect for $400, I guess I can't complain too much. I should have built a real computer.

I'm going to take my chances and try a Kubuntu install, GRUB should still be able to see the Vista partition, that is if it can see the same partitions that Vista sees. (in particular the unpartitioned space I want to install to.) I know I can run OP on Wine mostly, and if it comes to running an XP VM on one OS or the other then so be it. But I get the sneaking suspicion that the machine will bork if I do install Kubuntu/GRUB. See that 1.46 MB EISA configuration partition? I suspect that is the on-disk bios. I called Toshiba and grilled them, the poor little girl had no idea when I asked her if there was a proper on-chip bios on the mainboard, it took her five minutes to ask her supervisor, but answered that the BIOS is on the mainboard.

Oh wait, maybe my best bet is to go with WUBI, it would save me the hassle of having to run the restore disks and re-installing all my stuff if a proper Kubuntu install to a ext3 partition borks the system. WUBI's virtual filesystem will slow disk access somewhat, but it still has real hardware access otherwise. I think that is what I will do, I'll extend the Vista partition to it's original size to fill the unallocated space and then Install Kubuntu via WUBI.

[Bonk]

Insyde H₂O Setup Utility ... this is not a traditional BIOS, from what I can gather, to get real access to the hard disk I would have to buy a licence for their framework and obtain a suitable development platform to re-write the Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI, aka "pseudo-BIOS") in order to enable traditional hard disk access that allows mutiple bootable partitions. It is as I thought, and the peons at Toshiba support (and their supervisors) have no clue. 

So Wubi it is! Good thing such a product is available.

Now if only I could get Vista to stop insisting on displaying every folder as a pictures folder... I don't want a damn rating column I want file type,date,size,owner,attributes etc. in details view for all folders all the time, when I set it in Explorer...Tools...Options...View...ApplyToAllFolders, Vista simply ignores my request and happily displays tiles of text files, archives, whatever (even the administrative tools section of the control panel) - as pictures with date taken and ratings columns... Sheesh, what a mess. 

[toasty0]

Maybe this might help: http://www.winvistaclub.com/Ultimate_Windows_Tweaker.html

[Bonk]

Maybe this might help: http://www.winvistaclub.com/Ultimate_Windows_Tweaker.html

Thanks toasty0, I had a look at that when you posted it in engineering, I concluded that I had already found all of the settings it tweaks in Vista's own interfaces.

I'm on to QEMU / QEMU manager now (will check/update free software thread).

Edit: already have it in there: http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163350078.msg1122852161.html#msg1122852161

I'm going to set up an XP VM in Vista with QEMU Manager.

[Bonk]

Poop, QEMU does not work on Vista. VMWare Server it is then.

[Pestalence_XC]

Bonk.. XP will be severely limited in VM Server.. Video capped to 8 MB, Networking a nightmare to configure out of VM Server.

Add this to Vista and it's controls.. I couldn't get it configured to get a server kit online or even to play TCP/IP for OP, much less turning Models on in the SFC.ini, the game wouldn't load.. not enough vid memory..

maybe I was doing something wrong, or maybe the VM I was using (I was using the latest from MS).


What model Toshiba are you using?

I have 3 laptops here from the Satellite series.. 2 were built for XP and 1 for Vista.. they have chipped Bios on the main board.. but then again these are $1800 to $2500 laptops, designed to be a portable desktop.

Of all the Toshiba lines, I would take yours back and get a Satellite series.

[Bonk]

My laptop: Satellite L300D - 01Q (PSLC0C-01Q08C)

I'll play with VMware Server for a bit to see what I get, if no joy then I'll look at other virtualisation solutions like Sun's VirtualBox, but it is x86 host only I think and this Satellite is an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor TK-57 @ 1.9 GHz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_virtual_machines

If I can find nothing that works I can eventually retrieve my old PIII XP system from my father's shed.

[Pestalence_XC]

OK Bonk.. good news and bad.

Good News.. the system does have a Bios Chip.

Bad news, it is a Toshiba memory stamped Award / Phoenix Bios or AMD Bios.. meaning only Toshiba can make a Bios update for it and Toshiba has no bios update.

Different ways to enter the Bios on Toshiba (By model)

Toshiba® 335 CDS         ESC 

Toshiba Protege        ESC 

Toshiba Satellite 205 CDS      F1

Toshiba Tecra        ESC then F1 or F2

Toshiba Notebook [Newer models] (possibly yours)

 1. Turn on computer by Holding down power button while pressing the ESC key.
The machine will beep, then display:
Check System, then press [F1] key.
2. Release ESC key
3. Press F1 key
 

Different ways to enter the Bios (by chip vendor)

ALR Advanced Logic Research, Inc. ® PC / PCI                 F2 

ALR PC non / PCI                              CTRL+ALT+ESC 

AMD® (Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.) BIOS               F1 

AMI (American Megatrends, Inc.) BIOS                     DEL

Award™ BIOS                                      CTRL+ALT+ESC 

Award BIOS                                                  DEL 

DTK® (Datatech Enterprises Co.) BIOS                      ESC

Phoenix™ BIOS                                         CTRL+ALT+ESC

Phoenix BIOS                                            CTRL+ALT+S   (This is pretty common on Toshiba as well)

Phoenix BIOS                                          CTRL+ALT+INS 

[Bonk]

Yeah, I have full access to the EFI "pseudo-BIOS" (as I call it) - F2 at startup, but the problem is that it is not a real bios, boot from a bootable CD, and it will not see the same partitions that Vista sees - this is a "Windows BIOS" (see the Insyde H₂O propaganda).

But wait, I had ReactOS working a while ago on this Vista install, bundled with QEMU. So I should be able to get QEMU working with a little more fiddling (I was using 0.9.1 for my test XP vm, perhaps that ReactOS dist uses 0.9.0).

I do not like this new VMware Server at all - Apache Tomcat application server! WTF? No wonder performance is an issue, a java application server is a retarded way to implement hardware virtualisation, totally retarded. I'm setting up XP with it now, but might just stop short of completion and go back to QEMU, a real VM solution.

Ya, that's it VMware server goes directly to the incinerator of all poorly designed applications. I feel violated. Ugh.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Well pretty much my week I had is now up, I'll be able to continue with Vista OP experiments when I'm back for several weeks on a proper connection in about 15 to 17 days from now(and I'll have several weeks as well, not just 1)

Out of curiosity Bonk, I noticed that indeed your getting the firewall message more often then I or Pesty, do you think it might be due to the differences in networking of Vista Home Premium and Vista Ultimate? I know Home Premium doesn't come with the Business networking, which seems to be more stable overall then the "home" networking builds of Home Basic and Home Premium.

[Bonk]

I don't doubt that networking may have been crippled in Vista Home Premium, it is entirely possible. Though it could be my new router (my old reliable one is in dad's shed as well), the new Linksys firmwares are just a little too fancy for my liking. I have just adjusted the MTU from Auto to Manual (1500) on it, that may make a difference. I'm not done with this yet, but I'm going to give QEMU another go before going back to Vista testing.

[Bonk]

Aha, QEMU 0.9.0 Does work on Vista, it seems something was added in 0.9.1 that breaks it. I'm installing XP in a QEMU 0.9.0 virtual machine I set up with QEMU Manager 5.0 now.

[Bonk]

QEMU is surprisingly fast running XP Pro is places, painfully slow in others. Installing XP SP2 now... It is nice in that as I set up the VM as a single processor 32 bit machine -  it only occupies one core on the host, so I am free to do stuff on the host OS while the guest is running.

The networking setup is completely transparent, and works very fast.

There are a few quirks; it does not seem to want to accept a double click, choppy sound, only takes the physical CD at boot and no easy facility to transfer files between the host and guest. I ended up installing TightVNC on the guest XP installation and using its file transfer utility to copy over the XP SP2 installer.

Once I have SP2 installed and a little windows configuration done I will try installing OP. I'll keep you posted.

This VM might outperform my old PIII system.

[Bonk]

Well, OP will not run in my QEMU XP VM (no 3D). But Artifex will. So at least I can edit maps. I intend to create an OpenOffice spreadsheet to edit text maps and then use Artifex to convert them to binary to load on the server. So that is some progress at least.

By setting my laptop to the DMZ and manually setting the MTU I seem to be able to get past the firewall check now. Still get the slow movement and whatnot though. I'm digging around for a newer copy of smartheap but can't seem to find one anywhere. I suppose I could write to them and beg for a copy to test with. Perhaps a newer quicksilver game might include it, I'll look into that.

If there is a will there is a way.

[Bonk]

I did find a newer version of smartheap (shw32.dll) on my old hard disk - v 6.0.2.58 - instead of the version 6.0.0.3 that ships with OP and SFC3 - but it made no significant difference. It would be nice to find a version 7,8 or 9 of smartheap to try though.

I just had the idea of using a directplay "proxy" app like dxport, or perhaps writing one of our own. I'm going to give dxport a whirl and see what I get.

[Bonk]

Well DXport seems to work as advertised (even on Vista!), but it does not resolve our OP Dynaverse lag issues. Good to know DXport works on Vista though.

[toasty0]

I don't mean to sounds like sour grapes here, but I don't remember the lag issue being so hot under XP either.

[Bonk]

Just to clarify, this is not in-mission lag we're talking about. It is on the map, in supply, the shipyard and at login. e.g. with movement set to 3 seconds on the server a movement on the map running the OP client on Vista can take up to 2 minutes. Or in supply the client never updates after pressing the "done" button. Or taking multiple attempts to get past the firewall check, and very slow login and map load... etc.

On the Dynaverse, the mechanics of the in mission game are exactly the same as regular tcp/ip (lan,gamespy,SFC Direct) games, the only difference being that the host's (drafter) mission script reports results to the Dynaverse server.

Apologies in advance if I have stated the obvious.

Have you observed the kind of lag we're talking about in the OP client in XP? (I have not.) If so, the information could be helpful in identifying the root cause of the Dynaverse interface lag on Vista.

[toasty0]

 

Ok. I thought you guys were tesing via the use/client and not the server. No wonder some of this made no sense to me.

Now I'm on the same page. It's all making sense. The doc says I'm much better now...

[Bonk]

Last night I decided I will be replacing Vista with XP Pro SP3 on both of my new machines come hell or high water. Not being able to run OP is part of it, but the major reason is observations I've made about the bundled Vista install on the Compaq desktop. Being that it hits the hard disk (a nice WD too) every second constantly - never stopping, and no it is not the usual suspects, I made many trials stopping every stoppable service and killing every killable task. Yet it continued hitting the disk once a second. (even in safe mode) Have you had a look at the new task scheduler in Vista? The myriad of scheduled tasks to make up for the inadequacies of the OS is incredible, not only that, the Task Scheduler service cannot be stopped.

Vista is about on par with Fedora (3). It is an unstable testing branch. I dumped Fedora for the very same reason: unjustified and unidentifiable disk activity. I sure hope windows 7 is an improvement or it will surely be the end of windows. (Go Wine go!)

[Lepton]

Uh oh!!! Prepare for the Microsoft fanboys backlash in 5..4..3..2..1.

[Bonk]

 

Well to be fair, I did crap on Fedora too.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I can't kick in much here, but...
Having played SFC on 98, ME, XP and now on XP64, other than getting past firewall issues, never any lag issues that could be attributed to just XP.
No experiance with Vista.
*deposits 2 lousy cents*

[Bonk]

I think I figured out my problem trying to install XP on my laptop in the process of installing it on my new desktop (replacing vista). My XP install disk dates back to 2001 and it appears it cannot recognise disks/partitions greater than 130GB. So using the Gparted Live CD to wipe the existing partitions on my desktop, I then used it to create a single 100GB NTFS partition, then booted from my XP install disk, which saw the 100GB partition and 30GB unpartitioned space (blind to the remaining 170GB) and installed it, updated to SP2, then SP3 and used the XP SP3 disk manager to add a 200GB NTFS data partition.

So, my strategy now for a multiple boot setup on my laptop is to wipe the restore partition and shrink the vista partition to about 70GB, then install XP on ~30GB of the ~60GB of unpartitioned space I expect it to see, patch it up, and then Install Kubuntu on the remaining unpartitioned space allowing the GRUB boot manager to take control of the MBR which should see all three OS's and provide boot menu entries for each. 

First, I'm wrapping up finding and installing all the XP drivers for the new desktop that Compaq/HP says don't exist.    Then I'll tackle the laptop multiboot setup and I'll be all geared up to test the client from three OSs on the laptop and run my own servers on the desktop! (must nag my ISP about the domain hosting deal they promised)

Once I have this done, the interim Forge will be going up at Xenocorp. "Soon".

And wow, is XP ever fast on a dual core pentium @ 2.2 GHz with 3GB of RAM - smokin fast! It is going to be a lean clean (el cheapo) server machine!

edit: and I'm going to keep it lean and mean by using ClamWin and A-squared free instead of my old combination of AVG free and Windows defender.

[[KBF]MuadDib]

please let me know when you're up, running and got some time Bonk. 

[Bonk]

please let me know when you're up, running and got some time Bonk. 

Will do. I haven't forgotten.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

but the major reason is observations I've made about the bundled Vista install on the Compaq desktop. Being that it hits the hard disk (a nice WD too) every second constantly - never stopping, and no it is not the usual suspects, I made many trials stopping every stoppable service and killing every killable task. Yet it continued hitting the disk once a second. (even in safe mode)

Hey Bonk, just so you know, I know a few people who have to suffer through Vista Home Premium as well, and indeed their HDDs are lighting up every second, but Vista Ultimate doesn't hit the drive every second. At times it does, but just sitting on the desktop or something idle, Ultimate doesn't seem to hit the drive constantly. Still more then XP would, but less then HomePremium of every 1 second.

[Pestalence_XC]

On my system, Vista hits my HDD on start up for about 3 to 4 min.. after that, it hardly accesses my HDD unless I am running the TV Tuner (MCE works as TIVO so records current episode you are watching, then deletes it when tuner is turned off), playing games such as Crysis, Fallout 3, Hellgate London....

Other than that, I experience less HDD access than XP does..

However speed between Vista and XP.. I have to give them the same rating

Visual between Vista and XP.. if you want true HD and effects from movies, games, etc.. Vista hands down.

Compatibility.. this I have to give to XP.. however I have only 10 titles that will not work on Vista out of 165 games and 86 other software programs.

Not Vista Compatible : SFC II titles Dynaverse, Dominion Wars, Star Trek : Hidden Evil, MS Visual C++ 6.0 (You can install it and program in it, but programs do not compile correctly), MS VB 6, 3D Studio Max 3 and 4 and 5, Artifex (SFC map editor), Diskeeper (older than 2008 version).

Some programs need some tweaking in Vista in order to get full functionality.

Vista resources.. with all graphics enabled, AERO, enhancements, animated background (Vista DreamScene) .. memory being used.. 1.48 GB at 3% processor usage (Intel Core 2 2.66 Ghz w/ 1333 Mhz FSB OC'd to 3.86 Ghz w/ 1975Mhz FSB)

a few more resources than XP requires, however the trade off is a big jump in graphics (not just eye candy of the OS, but DirectX 10 shader effects in games as well as true HD playback from TV Tuners [if tuner is HD compliant]).

I wouldn't recommend Vista for anyone running less than 2 GB on their main board.. or if you want fast usability, 4 GB system memory and 4 GB USB memory stick set to READY BOOST.

Also many people turn off SuperFetch.. I have mine enabled, which is why I hav somewhat prolonged start up reads, but once the system caches to the Ready Boost.. nice and fast. and physical memory is then reduced to 1.03 GB in use.

I can get that down to about 800 MB by disabeling AERO and most of the shadow effects (reducing the system down to XP levels) ..

Vista Ultimate is the only version of Vista to have if you plan on running Vista.. I have had less compatibility issues with programs under Vista Ultimate than I did under Vista Home Premium. I didn't have all that many problems under Home Premium.. but I have found Ultimate to be more user friendly.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Vista Ultimate is the only version of Vista to have if you plan on running Vista

I've come to say to anyone that asks me,
if you must get Vista, then get Vista Ultimate(64-bit at best, but 32-bit will be fine). The other versions really are just stripped down into shells not worth anything in any way shape or form(unfortunatly). Anything else, well you have something labled as Windows Vista, but it is no more than a ugly rock titled Vista.

[Age]

Originally Posted by Bonk

Once I have this done, the interim Forge will be going up at Xenocorp. "Soon".

And wow, is XP ever fast on a dual core pentium @ 2.2 GHz with 3GB of RAM - smokin fast! It is going to be a lean clean (el cheapo) server machine!

edit: and I'm going to keep it lean and mean by using ClamWin and A-squared free instead of my old combination of AVG free and Windows defender.

That will make Crim and yeah dual core duels are  really nice and what is ClamWin?

I think I figured out my problem trying to install XP on my laptop in the process of installing it on my new desktop (replacing vista). My XP install disk dates back to 2001 and it appears it cannot recognise disks/partitions greater than 130GB. So using the Gparted Live CD to wipe the existing partitions on my desktop, I then used it to create a single 100GB NTFS partition, then booted from my XP install disk, which saw the 100GB partition and 30GB unpartitioned space (blind to the remaining 170GB) and installed it, updated to SP2, then SP3 and used the XP SP3 disk manager to add a 200GB NTFS data partition.

So, my strategy now for a multiple boot setup on my laptop is to wipe the restore partition and shrink the vista partition to about 70GB, then install XP on ~30GB of the ~60GB of unpartitioned space I expect it to see, patch it up, and then Install Kubuntu on the remaining unpartitioned space allowing the GRUB boot manager to take control of the MBR which should see all three OS's and provide boot menu entries for each. 

First, I'm wrapping up finding and installing all the XP drivers for the new desktop that Compaq/HP says don't exist.    Then I'll tackle the laptop multiboot setup and I'll be all geared up to test the client from three OSs on the laptop and run my own servers on the desktop! (must nag my ISP about the domain hosting deal they promised)

Once I have this done, the interim Forge will be going up at Xenocorp. "Soon".

And wow, is XP ever fast on a dual core pentium @ 2.2 GHz with 3GB of RAM - smokin fast! It is going to be a lean clean (el cheapo) server machine!

edit: and I'm going to keep it lean and mean by using ClamWin and A-squared free instead of my old combination of AVG free and Windows defender.

[Bonk]

ClamWin is the most convenient of the windows ports of ClamAV, suitable for desktop systems. It is an on-demand (not on-access) virus scanner, thus much easier on system resources. Though ClamWin lacks a daemon that keeps the definitions in RAM, so it has a little overhead each time it is called on to scan. For more intensive server applications another port that includes the daemon is more appropriate: ClamAV Antivirus Native Win32 Port, though it is not for the conf file challenged as it requires considerable manual configuration and scripting to handle its myriad of command line parameters. It is rumoured that ClamWin will include the daemon in its distribution at some future date though.

P.S. I do not recommend installing ClamWin's Outlook addin, it is a beast. (which requires the custom install option to opt out of it) A better solution is to schedule a daily scan of your mail store folder and set clamwin to treat files as mailboxes. Better yet, use Thunderbird to connect to Gmail by IMAP, and let Google take care of all that for you, as I do. (being aware of the privacy issues of course)

[Pestalence_XC]

Bonk, you may want to trade in the Dual Core Pentium since it is considered a dinosaur by todays standards.. Intel doesn't even make them any more.. they haven't for about 2 years now..

Core is the replacement for Dual Core Pentiums.

Flavors for Core series
Core i7
Core i7 Extreme
Core i7-965 Extreme
Core 2 Duo
Core 2 Quad
Core 2 Duo Extereme
Core 2 Quad Extreme

pretty much in that order.. the Core 2 Quad Extreme is equivalent to running a quad core Xenon chip.

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/core2xe/specifications.htm

Now for my rig, the best I can get on here is a Core 2 Quad Extreme with a 1333 Ghz FSB Stock..

I would like to build with a newer Core 2 quad Extreme at the 1600 Mhz FSB, but that requires a new main board.. I may not have enough with taxes this year.

The best I can probably hope for is a QX9650 this year.. maybe a QX9770, but I have to check to see if it supports running at 1333 Mhz FSB (main board default)

EDIT : I will have to go with the QX9650.. the QX9770 only supports 1600 Mhz FSB ..

They have 2 QX9650 processors.. a 95W and a 130W.. the difference is max temp rating.. if I decide to OC the heck out of it, then I will probably go with the 130W chip.. not bad for $999

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115034

I can get it from Ebay new for $499.00 + 20 shipping (buy now option) and this is the 130W Architecture.

[KBF-Crim]

That will make Crim and yeah

You bet that will make me and yeah

But yeah...that will make me yeah....YEA even...

(I have webots that seek my name and bring me intel  )

[Age]

I meant happy Crim.

I use core 2 duo not not dual.

I use Outlook for my e-mail not TBird or Outlook Express Avg scans Outlook.

Might want to check out newegg.ca for $CDN prices.

http://www.newegg.ca/Store/Category.aspx?Category=34&name=CPUs-Processors

[Bonk]

Soon Crim and Age will be happy! 

Thanks for the update on current processor tech Pestalence, you're a valuable resource around here!

The thing is the cheapy dual core E2200 3GB RAM system I got on sale will do just fine for a low traffic webserver and running sfb-op on MySQL, it should be more than enough. You have to remember I'm used to running on my old PIII 1000MHz with 640MB RAM system. Just about anything you can buy today will blow that out of the water. I have XP and all the required drivers installed nicely on the Presario (E2200) desktop system now. Just waiting for my domain name to come in to start setting up servers.

And dig this... a big 

I now have a Vista, XP and Kubuntu multiboot setup working perfectly on my laptop! Using Vista's boot manager no less! I guess my bitching about the EFI/"pseudoBIOS" was not justified, though the Toshiba system partion on the disk did complicate the partition setup somewhat by occupying one of four primary partition slots. My partition setup is attached (as seen by Gparted - the Vista disk management does not see the linux partitions as in the extended partiion, which they are, but rather sees them as primary... )

All I had to do to get there was repeat many arcane incantations and sacrifice several small furry animals, et voila! 

Nah, what really got me there was the doc you posted for Vista-XP dual boot setup (which I did first - with some modifications):
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=163380252.0;id=15372

the Gparted live CD:
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php

the Windows Recovery Environment (WinPE dist from neosmart):
http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/

and a combination of the instructions here (under Classical Final Solution):
http://www.supergrubdisk.org/wiki/Howto_Boot_Grub_from_windows#Classical_solution
and here:
http://port25.technet.com/archive/2006/10/13/Using-Vista_2700_s-Boot-Manager-to-Boot-Linux-and-Dual-Booting-with-BitLocker-Protection-with-TPM-Support.aspx

Basically, I used Gparted to shrink my Vista partition, then create an XP partition, installed and patched XP, restored the Vista boot manager, added XP to it, used Gparted to create an extended partition and a data partition to share among the OSs, then installed Kubuntu in largest free space guided mode, with the advanced option to install GRUB to the linux partition outside the MBR (/dev/sda6 in my case), then used the console on the Gparted Livecd to grab the Linux bootsector to a thumbdrive (and a screenshot of the actual partitions for this post), then configured the Vista bootloader via bcdedit as outlined in the last link above (with some minor modifications - I called it Kubuntu instead of GRUB - so GRUB on /dev/sda6 shows as "Kubuntu" in the Vista bootloader.

Phew... now I can really get down to work! Yay!  Starting with collecting up all the chipset divers for XP for this laptop. 

[Pestalence_XC]

The i7's CPU's are the newest, but performance wise, the Core 2 will outperform them, especially during overclocking. the i7 Motherboards have the main board CPU clock as an external hardware component to prevent OC, which IMHO is a major limitation.. given that they are a faster processor stock, a QX9770 3.0 Ghz running at 1600 Mhz FSB can easily overclock to 4.45 Ghz at 2600 Mhx FSB under stock cooling.. however if you go water cooling, you can actuall crank out 5.5 Ghz @ 2800 Mhz on the 130 W core.. and with 12 Mb 2nd level cache, completely blows the i7 chip out of the water.

Same goes for the one I want to get.. the QX9650 .. it is a 3.0 Ghz @1333 Mhz FSB but can overclock to 4.2 Ghz @ 2050 Mhz FSB under stock cooling.. and still has the 12 Mb 2nd level cache.. which still blows the i7 out of the water.. and the QX chips support DDR2 and DDR3 both where the i7 only supports DDR3...

as such the QX is much more versatile and I can blow the socks off an i7 chip with a small overclock.. I can really make the machine ROXXORS with cryo cool or water cool and almost tripple the CPU speed on the 130 watt die ... nothing in the i7 catagory can touch that.. not even their extreme chip.

now the i7 has a couple of innovative architecture designs which makes it scream to begin with but the QX series of Core 2 under overclock vastly outperforms the i7 which can not be overclocked.

add that to a couple of 15,000 RPM Sata in Raid 0 or Raid 1 configs... the system would have a Vista base score with a good graphics card (Geforce 8800 GTX 768 MB gDDR3 or higher [9800 series])and RAM of 5.9 (which is Vista's max) but actual score would be closer to 6.5.

I'm just planning on upping my CPU for now.. thinking on getting the QX9770 and getting a new main board .. upgrade memory to DDR3 later on...

but that depends on taxes.. if taxes are lower than expected, then the QX9650 will have to do for the next couple of years and I just build a new complete system in 2011 when Windows 7 comes out (new machine for a new OS)

[Bonk]

Looky what I found in my dpnetdbg.txt in my OP install on Vista:

"FailedconnectionDescription->mIsValid()"

Usually all it ever says is "Windows API Call Failed" (even on XP).

Not sure if it's significant, just thought I'd note it here for the record.

[Bonk]

I just tried The Forge from my Vista install. Similar results.

I then tried again after placing these dlls in my Vista OP installation folder: http://www.thehandofagony.com/alex/dll/dplaydlls-win98se.tar.bz2

Similar result again. Worth a try I guess.

[Age]

I was  wondering if Vistas Firewall could be blocking  MS Direct play as I  was  asked this  while logging off  the Dyna.

[CaptJosh]

Have you tried it with the firewall shut down? With specific exceptions in the firewall for the necessary ports?

[Bonk]

Check earlier in this thread, we tried running with the Vista firewall completely disabled (as well as stopping its service and all associated services).

I'm not even convinced this is a directplay7 emulation issue. I suspect it goes deeper to the actual windows sockets implementation in Vista. (wsock32.dll - a primary dependency of StarFleetOP.exe which in turn depends on ws2_32.dll [windows sockets 2])

Interestingly, I cannot find any of the directplay dlls in the dependency list for StarFleetOP.exe at all. (as generated by HeavenTools' PE Explorer)

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

OK, Im back home, withboth my desktop and laptop on a OP worthy connection. I should be able to run more extensive tests now

[FPF-DieHard]

Has anyone tested with with Windows 7 Beta? 

[Pestalence_XC]

Installing Windows 7 Beta now and getting all my software put on it.. will let you know once I get configured if D2 will work correctly..


Word of warning.. I ran into many program problems doing an upgrade from Vista to Windows 7.. I recommend if you intend to run Windows 7, do it from a clean install.. Install time with my rig was 40 min.