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Topic: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)  (Read 301466 times)

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Offline Norsehound

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1600 on: June 14, 2011, 10:42:44 am »
My reasoning for all this was the Romulans stole the propulsion mechanism, not the power source. So while they were running on Pure Impulse power (ie fusion reactors, or whatever makes impulse drives go) they had the warp nacelles to push them at warp speeds.

But having only impulse power explains why they were so concerned with fuel and energy. Were the BoP M/AM driven, they could probably do so much more than they were limited to during that engagement.
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1601 on: June 14, 2011, 02:46:29 pm »
Non mater/antimatter warp drives have been cannon since ST First Contact as their was no way the Phenix could have had one because their was no way to make antimater on earth after the 3rd world war. Phenix had at least a fusion powered warp drive if not a fission pwered one useing the missile warhead as the power source. Also don't forget the StarFleet Museum.

http://www.starfleet-museum.org/index.htm

That is a great place to learn about this particular topic ;D
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1602 on: June 14, 2011, 03:03:45 pm »
I take some of the Starfleet Museum mythos into FoaS-Trek but not all of it, but I like the Phoenix is a good example of a canon-based precedent for a non-m/am reactor feeding a warp drive.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1603 on: June 14, 2011, 03:06:07 pm »
Quote from: Norsehound on June 14, 2011, 10:42:44 am
My reasoning for all this was the Romulans stole the propulsion mechanism, not the power source. So while they were running on Pure Impulse power (ie fusion reactors, or whatever makes impulse drives go) they had the warp nacelles to push them at warp speeds.

But having only impulse power explains why they were so concerned with fuel and energy. Were the BoP M/AM driven, they could probably do so much more than they were limited to during that engagement.

I find this confusing. They stole the propulsion mechanism - implying they didn't have it before, or they just had a crappier version and stole the fed's warp drive for improvement.

Can we, for the rest of this thread, refer to Impulse and Warp as propulsion and Fusion and Matter/Antimatter as power sources? very confusing to use things interchangeably.
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1604 on: June 14, 2011, 04:15:08 pm »
I think that in this example "stole the propulsion mechanism" is not event close to right. The Romulans don't use M/A reactors to power there warp drives so stealing that tech is of little use to them. What they would be interested in is materials tech to make stronger lighter huls, more efficent warp coils for their Necelles. Warp field dynamincs calculations to help produce more warp efficent hulls sensors and computers for better safety at higher speeds. Many factors can effect exterior design and is by no means a true indicator of whats actually inside the hull.
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Offline Norsehound

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1605 on: June 14, 2011, 11:50:10 pm »
Nothing is known of the exodus fleet that left Vulcan and departed for Romulus. It could be that they utilized a form of FTL drive more inefficient or different from warp drive. The T'Plana-hath (from First Contact) after all has no discernible warp nacelles as we know it. It could be that it (like the Romulan exodus fleet) did not have warp drive. So, if Warp drives were more effective, they just stole the drive mechanisms and tried to replicate them as best as they could with their technology.

All there is to generate this particular line of thinking is a dropped line from Balance of Terror about sabotage and espionage, and the visual connection of two long nacelles, capped by glowing tips, held away from the primary hull by pylons.

Since the SFC1 manual talks about Romulans being little more than a galactic nuisance until they got warp drive (A/AM reactors, specifically), I thought it was rather supportive that the Romulans would be actively trying to steal stuff to make their vessels more powerful. Warp drive was better than the atomic-powered craft of yesteryear (discounting Enterprise's accounts, of course), so they stole it.

One thought is that they tried to use it as a primary drive mechanism (eschewing impulse engines entirely), but Scotty presumed they were using impulse reactors since the power output of the craft was nowhere near the levels of A/AM. Could be that the reason the Federation took so much interest in the Cloaking Device by the Enterprise Incident is because the cloak could cover A/AM powered vessels completely.
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1606 on: June 15, 2011, 02:12:48 am »
The SFC 1 manual barrowed that info straight from SFB which assumed they had no FTL of anykind till they got it from the Klingons. Besides there is no praxtical way they could have fought the Earth-Romulan without it. Also the treaty that ended the war was negotiated by Subspace radio which is FTL so if the Romulans had that tech it folows the had drives too.

Quote
All there is to generate this particular line of thinking is a dropped line from Balance of Terror about sabotage and espionage, and the visual connection of two long nacelles, capped by glowing tips, held away from the primary hull by pylons.


That is not entierly true. Until the Balance of Terror The Federation had no idea what a Romulan looked like. For that reason Styles noted there might be Romulan Agents aboard and Sulu recomended they put the ship on security alert which Kirk did.  This also invites the thought process of stolen indormation.

Logic dictates that the simplest answer is probably the correct one. The simplest answer is that for reasons unknown the Romulans where unable to or unwilling to use M/A reactors untill the mid 2260 by which time they had enough experiance with fighting the Klingons and Gorn to know that without them they where donefor and would get conquered by either the Klingons or the Gorn.
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Offline Terradyhne

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1607 on: June 15, 2011, 04:33:32 am »
the SFB thinking of the Romulans without warp ist just stupid.
if the romulans where infact vulcans, that have left vulcan without a ftl-drive, they wouldn't even have reached romulus and remus in the TOS era and build a empire that could stand up against the gorn or the klingons.

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1608 on: June 15, 2011, 05:27:36 am »
Could it be that the crafty Romulan commander in Balance of Terror was not using warp capability to hide the fact that the Romulans had that technology from the Federation, or was able to mask it in some way?

Keep in mind also, that in TNG, Romulan ships get their power from quantum singularity, not M/AM reaction like their Federation counterparts.
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Offline Norsehound

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1609 on: June 15, 2011, 05:27:22 pm »
In any case it was just a whim of a kitbash design based on a thought.

Honestly I'd be more interested in those kelvin kitbashes from the pre-TOS era. But the Kzinti and Klinks need finishing before then, right FoAS?
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1610 on: June 15, 2011, 05:38:09 pm »
That it does.
Don't get me wrong though - the TOS BoP has always felt a tad TOS-Fed-like to me. I think WZ's ships also capture that same essence without it being too similar.
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Robinomicon
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Offline Norsehound

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1611 on: June 15, 2011, 05:42:18 pm »
One could almost say the Bird of Prey design from TOS is a mockery of Federation vessels, no? Has a (warped) primary hull with (knockoff) nacelles. Then again, the idea inspires thoughts of a Romulan-Federation alliance I've seen in some circles of fandom.
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1612 on: June 15, 2011, 05:52:57 pm »
From a Meta-universe perspective, the mockery absolutely works for me. In universe? I put it down as coincidence, myself.
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Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1613 on: June 15, 2011, 06:09:21 pm »
btw: Small graphical update to Robinomicon - I found out that CSS3 has drop shadows for box elements :)
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Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1614 on: June 15, 2011, 06:53:59 pm »
Quote from: FoaS_XC on June 15, 2011, 05:52:57 pm
From a Meta-universe perspective, the mockery absolutely works for me. In universe? I put it down as coincidence, myself.

Not coincidence; paraelle evolution. Simaler to why fish that act alike look alike. Loke shapes to promote like profomance.
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Offline marstone

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1615 on: June 15, 2011, 08:24:03 pm »
I'd say, small design team for show.  Long on ships to design, and short on inspiration.  Probably put the engines out because they wanted to show the fear of radiation that was known back in the '60's.  You have to build to an audience and what they would understand.
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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1616 on: June 16, 2011, 04:47:12 am »
Quote from: Starfox1701 on June 15, 2011, 06:53:59 pm
Not coincidence; paraelle evolution. Simaler to why fish that act alike look alike. Loke shapes to promote like profomance.


It reminds me of the phenomenon of multiple discoveries ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries ).
The nacelles don't have to be for warp. Think about all the shuttles with nacelles that are not warp capable. Bussards can serve a purpose independent of warp.
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Offline Norsehound

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1617 on: June 16, 2011, 11:25:37 am »
Hey FoAS, here's a challenge for you... go get the Doomsday machine stock model and see what you can do with it.

There shouldn't be much to it, just textures and one light source to be baking with. Am curious to see what you could come up with.
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Offline Klingon Fanatic

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1618 on: June 16, 2011, 11:53:12 am »
FoaS, look at the Doomsday Machine Atheorhaven tinkered with rather than the stock model.

Please release something soon.

Best wishes,
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Offline atheorhaven

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Re: Busy Busy FoaS (A few TOS ships here and there)
« Reply #1619 on: June 16, 2011, 01:01:31 pm »
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