Topic: Need help cracking a castling Fed

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

In a recent PvP battle, a very good player flew a F-BCF against my K-C7. Pretty early on, the BCF starcastled, and I tried to break through the shield reinforcement with a disruptor and ph-1 alpha strike at R15 (hitting the front shield), then repeated a couple times. It didn't seem to be getting through any of the reinforcement. All the while, he picked at my shields with some proxies and phasers. Out of patience, I overloaded the disruptors and closed in when he was recharging. By the time I got through his front shield, the BCF's photons were charged and I was quickly crippled; the match ended quickly from there.

As a Klingon, what can you do against a Fed opponent who starcastles?

[Centurus]

Get a droner, get behind him, and shoot him in the rear.

But what do I know?  I just go insane and shoot AI up the butt for a living.

[FPF-DieHard]

Get a droner, get behind him, and shoot him in the rear.

This is suicide against a competent pilot and not an option on GSA play with slow drones.

This won't work against a fed who's read this post, but time your disrupter/Ph1 shots to be after he's fired hits Phasers at your incoming drones.   If he doesn't pull down his Phaser Cap his reinforcement will drop to a point where you'll do real shield damage.

Dizzy's maniacal chasedown method works as well, but that needs to be shown.

Actually, the best best with Starcastling opponents is DO NOT CLOSE ON THEM EVER.  They will get bored eventually and come out of the closet.   

[Just plain old Punisher]

Get a KCR? =)

[Centurus]

Get a KCR? =)

Na.  Get one of them C8Ks.  Those suckers scare me.

[marstone]

Get a droner, get behind him, and shoot him in the rear.

This is suicide against a competent pilot and not an option on GSA play with slow drones.

This won't work against a fed who's read this post, but time your disrupter/Ph1 shots to be after he's fired hits Phasers at your incoming drones.   If he doesn't pull down his Phaser Cap his reinforcement will drop to a point where you'll do real shield damage.

Dizzy's maniacal chasedown method works as well, but that needs to be shown.

Actually, the best best with Starcastling opponents is DO NOT CLOSE ON THEM EVER.  They will get bored eventually and come out of the closet.   

Just a question, why is GSA slow drones, can you not upgreade them to faster ones when you play in the later years?

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Get a droner, get behind him, and shoot him in the rear.

This is suicide against a competent pilot and not an option on GSA play with slow drones.

This won't work against a fed who's read this post, but time your disrupter/Ph1 shots to be after he's fired hits Phasers at your incoming drones.   If he doesn't pull down his Phaser Cap his reinforcement will drop to a point where you'll do real shield damage.

Dizzy's maniacal chasedown method works as well, but that needs to be shown.

Actually, the best best with Starcastling opponents is DO NOT CLOSE ON THEM EVER.  They will get bored eventually and come out of the closet.   

Just a question, why is GSA slow drones, can you not upgreade them to faster ones when you play in the later years?

Thanks for the tips all, if I try them out tonight I'll let you know how it goes.

GSA has faster drones with each era just like campaign mode, but the drone costs are extraordinary-- much more than they cost in a regular skirmish. A drone war cruiser variant with four reloads of fast drones in GSA might cost about as much as a BCH.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Just a question, why is GSA slow drones, can you not upgreade them to faster ones when you play in the later years?

Play 185, get a F-CF, then you can load up on fast drones(scatterpacks).. it can be quite a nasty shock on your opponent who expects slow drones.. that is assuming of course the game runs at 185, if you want fast drones though you need to take something smaller then the best ship at the max allowed BPV

[Corbomite]

Just a question, why is GSA slow drones, can you not upgreade them to faster ones when you play in the later years?

Play 185, get a F-CF, then you can load up on fast drones(scatterpacks).. it can be quite a nasty shock on your opponent who expects slow drones.. that is assuming of course the game runs at 185, if you want fast drones though you need to take something smaller then the best ship at the max allowed BPV

Which can mean a rather quick death.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

Just a question, why is GSA slow drones, can you not upgreade them to faster ones when you play in the later years?

Play 185, get a F-CF, then you can load up on fast drones(scatterpacks).. it can be quite a nasty shock on your opponent who expects slow drones.. that is assuming of course the game runs at 185, if you want fast drones though you need to take something smaller then the best ship at the max allowed BPV

Which can mean a rather quick death.

yea, which is why I don't do it that often, but occasionally it works out really well.

[Pestalence_XC]

Best way to crack the Castling F-BCF.. R plasma.. plain and simple.. one you get past the WWs, the R plasma will knock down the front shield rather quick.. then he will chase.. so ship selection with R plasma needs to be pretty good with the power curve.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Best way to crack the Castling F-BCF.. R plasma.. plain and simple.. one you get past the WWs, the R plasma will knock down the front shield rather quick.. then he will chase.. so ship selection with R plasma needs to be pretty good with the power curve.

So maybe a Gorn CS or a Romulan Regal or Royalhawk?

What we need is a Klingon with side mounted plasmas.

[Centurus]

Best way to crack the Castling F-BCF.. R plasma.. plain and simple.. one you get past the WWs, the R plasma will knock down the front shield rather quick.. then he will chase.. so ship selection with R plasma needs to be pretty good with the power curve.

So maybe a Gorn CS or a Romulan Regal or Royalhawk?

What we need is a Klingon with side mounted plasmas.

That's just evil.  I kinda like it.   

[Tus-XC]

Best way to crack the Castling F-BCF.. R plasma.. plain and simple.. one you get past the WWs, the R plasma will knock down the front shield rather quick.. then he will chase.. so ship selection with R plasma needs to be pretty good with the power curve.

So maybe a Gorn CS or a Romulan Regal or Royalhawk?

What we need is a Klingon with side mounted plasmas.

KE works fine for that, or a KVL .... whats more annoying than a castleing fed?  a Castling rom

Of course if you take either of those two ships the fed won't be castling, he probably already knows that in a castle fight against a Rom he is going to lose.

Your best bet w/ a klinker is to draw out his photons and plaz if possible (photons at a the min), and overrun him w/ OL dizzies while he is charging.  The way I would do it would probably consit of a HET so that i would be able to pound his rear shields which shouldn't be reinforced.  I would then pull off and drop a SP outside of his amd range to keep him from busy while you lick your wounds a bit.  You will most likely take damage, but sometimes you need to be aggresive.  you know the old sayin "Fortune favors the bold" .  Of course you did this so my advice ain't going to help ya none

[FPF-DieHard]

Best way to crack the Castling F-BCF.. R plasma.. plain and simple.. one you get past the WWs, the R plasma will knock down the front shield rather quick.. then he will chase.. so ship selection with R plasma needs to be pretty good with the power curve.

Will you people PLEASE ACTULLY ANSWER THIS GUY'S QUESTION?

He's talking about a C7 versus BCF, he can't pull and R torp out of his rectum and use is.   He's also not talking about pilots stupid enough to castle against R-torps.

[Pestalence_XC]

Sorry DH, was responding to comments in general, not to the first post.

Personally, I would wait keep ECM low until the proxies were fired from the F-BCF, so I know he doesn't have OL's.. and then Overrun the Fed 1 time only to try to break the front shield with everything I had Cranking ECM up as I moved in.. and just eat the F torps.. making sure I had 100% phasers, OL'd dizzys, Attack Probe, and a Suicide shuttle.. anything to take the front shield out.. after that, they will stop castling since their front shield is gone.. and now that they are moving.. saber dance them to death on the rear shield.. and Front Shield whenever possible.

[marstone]

Sorry DH, was responding to comments in general, not to the first post.

Personally, I would wait keep ECM low until the proxies were fired from the F-BCF, so I know he doesn't have OL's.. and then Overrun the Fed 1 time only to try to break the front shield with everything I had Cranking ECM up as I moved in.. and just eat the F torps.. making sure I had 100% phasers, OL'd dizzys, Attack Probe, and a Suicide shuttle.. anything to take the front shield out.. after that, they will stop castling since their front shield is gone.. and now that they are moving.. saber dance them to death on the rear shield.. and Front Shield whenever possible.

also, if you have a chance when you get close, transport a few T-bombs near him so he can't fire a drone, or launch a defensive shuttle (ww,suicide) without setting it off.

[Age]

I am glad DieHard isn't giving away any Federation tactical secrets like you Pestalence as for the castling you never now what may come up get very close and he/she may unleash everything.BCFs do have F Plames don't forget you on;y need to turn your photons off and use those.Keep Dancing Mace.

I would say that I prefer line cruisers over bchs especially for you veterans out there this is one thing I respect about Mog he always flew a CL.I would personally fly a K-7L or K over a K-C7 anyday.

[Pestalence_XC]

I'm not giving up Fed secrets.. the tactic will be extremely risky to the C7.. You forget about drones, Phasers, Targeting the shuttle, keeping torps in reserve, Psuedo torps, HET, ECCM, Tractors, etc... there is no 1 way to beat the F-BCF casteling without plasma and the manuever is extremely risky..

on AOTK4, my F-CB killed a C7 variant by catching it in a level 3 tractor and hammering the snot out of it with OL's and Phasers.. reserving the SP's and drones until the AMD was knocked off line..

and this was traveling at speed 21

Never under estimate the power of a Fed ship.. there are just too many tactics that can be used..

The other tactic is doing a close fly by to get on the back side of the F-BCF.. however you would only be able to do that once and would only last as long as it takes for the F-BCF to HET...

so Age, I'm not giving anything away.. I'm giving options and what I think the Fed Player would not expect.. the game is about tactics as well as the unpredictable nature of each individual pilot.

[FPF-DieHard]

on AOTK4, my F-CB killed a C7 variant by catching it in a level 3 tractor and hammering the snot out of it with OL's and Phasers.. reserving the SP's and drones until the AMD was knocked off line..

that was an F-CB with a Legendary crew!!   That the same as a BCH

[Pestalence_XC]

Shhhhh.. that is suppose to be our secrete.. I was trying to give hope to other players out there.. attempt the unlikely..

[marstone]

The other tactic is doing a close fly by to get on the back side of the F-BCF.. however you would only be able to do that once and would only last as long as it takes for the F-BCF to HET...

Now this might work by doing a higher speed to try and stay in the back arcs. The BCF can HET, but he can't do it many times.  But getting close to this ship can really hurt.

[Age]

The other tactic is doing a close fly by to get on the back side of the F-BCF.. however you would only be able to do that once and would only last as long as it takes for the F-BCF to HET...

Now this might work by doing a higher speed to try and stay in the back arcs. The BCF can HET, but he can't do it many times. But getting close to this ship can really hurt.

You mean getting close to a K-C7 I wouldn't think so as F-BCF as plasma don't forget.

[marstone]

The other tactic is doing a close fly by to get on the back side of the F-BCF.. however you would only be able to do that once and would only last as long as it takes for the F-BCF to HET...

Now this might work by doing a higher speed to try and stay in the back arcs. The BCF can HET, but he can't do it many times. But getting close to this ship can really hurt.

You mean getting close to a K-C7 I wouldn't think so as F-BCF as plasma don't forget.

I mean getting close to the F-BCF can really hurt.  The K-C7 would have to watch it.

[Pestalence_XC]

You have to time it.. Plasma takes 3 turns to recharge.. and 1 plas F will only scorch a shield.. what you have to watch for is OL'd torpedos and fully loaded phaser capacitor and possible SP.. if you can get the F-BCF to waste its firepower and you are willing to attempt to direct damage to one of your shields, then it is quite possible.. but it is all in timing the recharge rates of your opponents weapons.

[FPF-DieHard]

I just showed him how to do it.   It's hard to explain, just needs to be done.   I'll email anyone the film if they want.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Hard being on the other side of it... GG DH

[Age]

The only worse thing is a starcastling Hydran with overloaded hellbores and fighters in the bay.

[Beeblebrox]

Your best bet is to keep your speed high and stay out of close range.  Keep yourself around range 15--25 and stay on the other ship's rear.  Make raking attacks with disruptors only on the back three shields.  It'll take some time but you will eventually break through the back three.  Once that happens keep making high speed passes with disruptors and every once in a while switch off the disruptors.  Execute a maximum speed phaser-only strike on open or weakened shields from range 10 or so once out of every 3 attack runs. 

Above all, stay out of the enemy ship's photon torpedo firing arcs.  If he somehow manages to get on your tail use scatterpacks in combination with mines.  Drop the scatterpack, wait roughly 3 seconds and drop a mine.  If he drops a shield to t-bomb the scatterpack he still has to contend with an oncoming active mine.  If you're lucky the mine might even strike the open shield.

[toasty0]

In a recent PvP battle, a very good player flew a F-BCF against my K-C7. Pretty early on, the BCF starcastled, and I tried to break through the shield reinforcement with a disruptor and ph-1 alpha strike at R15 (hitting the front shield), then repeated a couple times. It didn't seem to be getting through any of the reinforcement. All the while, he picked at my shields with some proxies and phasers. Out of patience, I overloaded the disruptors and closed in when he was recharging. By the time I got through his front shield, the BCF's photons were charged and I was quickly crippled; the match ended quickly from there.

As a Klingon, what can you do against a Fed opponent who starcastles?

Sabre Dance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HocHammond told you so...


Go out to about range 21 and start dropping them drones and sabre your way in...you'll crack him like the nut he is.

[FPF-DieHard]

Were you having this issue in OP, or FC?

http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1199&sid=7e9b510f18adc9172ae5518be17d75e4

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Darnit, you found out!

I asked there before to see what some other strategies would be. Ideally, something that would work in FC and SFB should work in SFC, but that is never the case. The advice there seemed to be the same idea as here, though, which is encouraging.

[toasty0]

A really good Kilingon pilot could end a castling fed's career in less than 91 seconds. My best was 85 seconds, my worste time, well, it lagged into hours, but I still killed the milk drinking, latex wearing fool.

[Age]

That is 91 sec. a Fed could end castling Klingon in 9 sec..

[toasty0]

That is 91 sec. a Fed could end castling Klingon in 9 sec..

Of course she could, but a Klingon, a real Klingon, would never be so unwise as to castle.

[FPF-DieHard]

Darnit, you found out!

I asked there before to see what some other strategies would be. Ideally, something that would work in FC and SFB should work in SFC, but that is never the case. The advice there seemed to be the same idea as here, though, which is encouraging.

The strategies are close, but not a 100% translation.   Many SFB tactics require manipulating the turn-break and stuff like that which you just can't do in SFC as there is no turn break. 

Do you play FC?  The Board Game has way more players than we do,  pneumonic81 is all over those forums and he models Trek Starships for a living! 

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Darnit, you found out!

I asked there before to see what some other strategies would be. Ideally, something that would work in FC and SFB should work in SFC, but that is never the case. The advice there seemed to be the same idea as here, though, which is encouraging.

The strategies are close, but not a 100% translation.   Many SFB tactics require manipulating the turn-break and stuff like that which you just can't do in SFC as there is no turn break. 

Do you play FC?  The Board Game has way more players than we do,  pneumonic81 is all over those forums and he models Trek Starships for a living! 

Yes, I saw some things requiring turn breaks that were odd, like choosing to fire plasmas at either the beginning or end of turns, to get them to charge faster.

Have you ever played? I haven't played FC or SFB but there's always some interesting stuff to read in the FC/SFB forums.

[FPF-DieHard]

Darnit, you found out!

I asked there before to see what some other strategies would be. Ideally, something that would work in FC and SFB should work in SFC, but that is never the case. The advice there seemed to be the same idea as here, though, which is encouraging.

The strategies are close, but not a 100% translation.   Many SFB tactics require manipulating the turn-break and stuff like that which you just can't do in SFC as there is no turn break. 

Do you play FC?  The Board Game has way more players than we do,  pneumonic81 is all over those forums and he models Trek Starships for a living! 

Yes, I saw some things requiring turn breaks that were odd, like choosing to fire plasmas at either the beginning or end of turns, to get them to charge faster.

Have you ever played? I haven't played FC or SFB but there's always some interesting stuff to read in the FC/SFB forums.

SFB but not FC.   FC is basically an quick and easy SFB but what's the point when OP is quicker and easier?   Even if I had a gaming group I'd rather do this on a LAN game as it just makes more sense.  The only stuff you can do in SFB that you can't do in SFC is crap that I'd never want to attempt in SFB anyway (real fleet battles with 10+ ships on a side with tons of attrition units).  i still but tons of SFB

What's funny is you'd never see a solo C7 versus a solo BCF in SFB anyway.   The BCH were built to be leading fleets into battle and though 4 dizrupters can't cut thru shield reinforcement at range 15, 40 disrupter would rip s ship to shreds at range 22.  I just don't think Star castling will be valid with 10 ships per side on the boards.