Topic: Hardcore Server NEW SCRIPTS testing

[Pestalence_XC]

Dave..

I say do it.. If you get 1 AI.. fast drones.. if you get 2 AI then 1 fast and 1 slow on drones if you get 3 AI the 1 fast, 1 slow, and 1 50/50 chance of either.. if you get 4 AI, 2 of each.. and so forth..

this would seem a fair compromise.

[Dizzy]

It can be ship-by-ship, we just need to draft enough AI to make up the slow-drone portion of the fleet. 

(The danger there is that if we get mission drops or screw something up we leave lots of ghost AI behind on the server.)

dave

Explain the 'danger'. You an I both know there will always be plenty of AI from dropped missions. All it takes is a mook with a firewall, or players dropping because of Host Left...

[Pestalence_XC]

1 hex running 4400 economy is working.. however I need to let it run for about a week like this..

the Neutral space needs 1 hex set at 2200 economy, which will double to give Orion NPC 4400 Economy

Empire Economies
================
          Federation:     4400
             Klingon:     4400
             Romulan:     4400
               Lyran:     4400
              Hydran:     4400
                Gorn:     4400
                 ISC:     4400
               Mirak:     4400
             Neutral:     4400
        Orion cartel:     4400
      Korgath cartel:     4400
        Prime cartel:     4400
   TigerHeart cartel:     4400
 BeastRaiders cartel:     4400
    Syndicate cartel:     4400
    Wyldefire cartel:     4400
      Camboro cartel:     4400

Max econ (for rank comparison): 4400
Ave econ (for shipyard costs):  4400

Economic Ranks (0-5)
====================
Federation: 5
Klingon: 5
Romulan: 4
Lyran: 5
Hydran: 5
Gorn: 4
ISC: 4
Mirak: 5
Orion cartel: 4
Korgath cartel: 4
Prime cartel: 4
TigerHeart cartel: 4
BeastRaiders cartel: 4
Syndicate cartel: 4
Wyldefire cartel: 4
Camboro cartel: 4
Neutral: 5


Still balanced properly.

[Dizzy]

If this works, map making just got easy!

[Lear]

Reports from the front.
Fed start ship NCD+ Drew light adversary's(CA's and a frig)  4out of 8 missions changed the Dv of the Hex
Klink start ship mauler cl changed to a droner drew light adversary's 2 out of 5 changed the DV of the Hex
Rom start FLG+ flew the spl+ Hy adversary's DN's + ca's or cl's   0 out of 4 change.
fire wall is off and recient changes had stoped this problem before. so i do not think that it is at my end.

[Pestalence_XC]

Reports from the front.
Fed start ship NCD+ Drew light adversary's(CA's and a frig) 4out of 8 missions changed the Dv of the Hex
Klink start ship mauler cl changed to a droner drew light adversary's 2 out of 5 changed the DV of the Hex
Rom start FLG+ flew the spl+ Hy adversary's DN's + ca's or cl's 0 out of 4 change.
fire wall is off and recient changes had stoped this problem before. so i do not think that it is at my end.

Dave may want to check into this and / or explain if all the script scenarios will change DV.. It is quite possible that things like a derelict ship to have a 0 DV shift.. after all you just found a dead ship in space, not fighting for control of the sector and mission takes less than 5 min to complete. Dave will have to tell us what is going on here.

[Dizzy]

No, dave needs to FIX it. Any mission you spend time on needs to adjust the DV.

Get on TS, pesty. Want to discuss gf settings.

[Dizzy]

Testing concluded. Consensus reached.

2 of 3 enemy ships may have Med spd drones the last with slow or
1 of 3 enemy ships with fast drones the other with slow.

Anything in excess of the above causes a number of problems, among them mission time disparity, racial imbalance and excessive mission times.

[Pestalence_XC]

Running some tests with Dizzy on the drone speeds..

Now High speed drones for all ships = unwinable regardless of the ship you are flying (unless you are flying Mirak)

Now for the XC scripts what we have agreed on is this

If possible (which Dave says is not).. then limit the AI to having Med speed drones but not all ships in mission .. say in a 3 AI enemies vs however many players .. maybe 1 to 2 ships with Med speed drones.. and the other 1 to 2 ships with slow drones...

With what Dave has posted is capable, having in a 3 AI Enemies vs however many players.. 1 ship era specific drones, the rest of the ships Slow speed...

Bases should be limited to slow speed maybe Med speed (which will reuire you moving in a bit until drones are depleted), but not High speed.. the Def platforms should have med speed, but not fast.. if not possible then slow drones as well..

Now with the Base Assault missions, I have asked Dave to add something to counter the sit and kill of the bases and planets.. enemy ships coming in to help defend.. so you will have to watch your supplies... Now these base assault missions and planet assault missions are not done yet and Dave is working on them.. however they should make a nice addition...

Now for the AI, if the player is flying a Droner for fast AI missions.. the Enemy AI should generate with a lvl 2 or lvl 3 repulsor tractor to help prevent the 2 player drone wave over run...

As for planets.. I am considering adding in the Model that allows planets to fire from the equator, not the poles, which will increase damage of the planetary weapons at different ranges.. plus give defenses around the planet ..

I'm also looking to beef planets up more than that.. but time will tell how that is going to work .. This is designed to keep races like the Mirak from running the map with waves of fast drones.. with a target rich environment, the players will have to watch the amount of expendables that they have in order to accomplish the missions

Don't worry, Hardcore will still be Hardcore.. It just has to have a fair base in order to work from..

And remember.. standard campaign servers will not be as cruel as the Hardcore server will be.. remember, I am running AI at low settings currently.. not beefed up the way I like it.


ED scripts should probably keep slow speed drones on all ships, but incorporate the Repulsor tractor on the AI...

DV shifting should be fixed in the scripts as well .. Hopefully Dave can fix this and the drones soon.

[Corbomite]

Now for the XC scripts what we have agreed on is this

With what Dave has posted is capable, having in a 3 AI Enemies vs however many players.. 1 ship era specific drones, the rest of the ships Slow speed...

I hope you mean by this that for every three AI ships with Drones you face in a mission there will be one with era specific Drones, so if you encounter 6 ships (including freighters) there will be two ships with upgraded Drones and so on. You also have to decide what kind of upgrades friendly AI will get, if any. Dave has stated that these upgrades can be done on a ship by ship basis. Perhaps different setups can be done for different mission conditions as they are created by the scripts to prevent over repetition of loadouts which will return us to the "oh this mission again, do this to win" scenario we have now.

Bases should be limited to slow speed maybe Med speed (which will reuire you moving in a bit until drones are depleted), but not High speed.. the Def platforms should have med speed, but not fast.. if not possible then slow drones as well..

I don't agree. Bases are important outposts for supply and presence in a sector and would have access to the best supplies. Small frontier Bases/Colonies might be under supplied, but anything Core World/Sector or larger would be considered important by an Empire.

Now with the Base Assault missions, I have asked Dave to add something to counter the sit and kill of the bases and planets.. enemy ships coming in to help defend.. so you will have to watch your supplies... Now these base assault missions and planet assault missions are not done yet and Dave is working on them.. however they should make a nice addition...

Good. The harder, the better.

Now for the AI, if the player is flying a Droner for fast AI missions.. the Enemy AI should generate with a lvl 2 or lvl 3 repulsor tractor to help prevent the 2 player drone wave over run...

This sounds good on paper, but some ships don't have the power for this. You are just crippling them in a different way. Besides, if the script can make decisions on what AI to give me based on what I am flying why not just make more Escorts show up when flying a Droner or Carrier?

As for planets.. I am considering adding in the Model that allows planets to fire from the equator, not the poles, which will increase damage of the planetary weapons at different ranges.. plus give defenses around the planet ..

Yes.

ED scripts should probably keep slow speed drones on all ships, but incorporate the Repulsor tractor on the AI...

No, but the build up could be slower, say one ship out of every four gets upgrades and more of a chance your AI allies get upgrades.



Pesty please don't forget about Carrier upgrades as well. I want to worry when I see an AI Carrier because I won't know what it has until it launches.

[Dizzy]

Pesty please don't forget about Carrier upgrades as well. I want to worry when I see an AI Carrier because I won't know what it has until it launches.

This depends entirely on if ED can regulate the type of ships that appear... Some missions we see nothing but 3 carrrier eney AI. Thats BS...  So we will see how carriers can be regulated.

[Corbomite]

Pesty please don't forget about Carrier upgrades as well. I want to worry when I see an AI Carrier because I won't know what it has until it launches.

This depends entirely on if ED can regulate the type of ships that appear... Some missions we see nothing but 3 carrrier eney AI. Thats BS...  So we will see how carriers can be regulated.

There should be unwinable missions occasionally.

[Pestalence_XC]

I could go with the Star Bases having era accurate drones.. .. Battle Stations having a 50/50 chance of having era accurate drones... and base stations having slow drones as well as asteroid bases.

as for the 1 in 3 ships having era accurate drones.. I agree with that...

For the ED scripts.. those are the communities puppies.. the HC scripts are for a custom Campaign that I am going to host 1 time only and then after that, the HC server will be running for fun between major campaigns..

Currently I am trying to get scripts, test ideas, test scripts, test server settings, test map settings, etc.. I am trying to push the server kit in a way it hasn't been pushed before... At the same time, I want people to fear the AI and have a chance of losing to the AI, unlike the current scripts we use on the servers today..

As for the repulsor.. You do have a point.. However what Dizzy and I were discussing if a player taking a Mirak ship.. Z-DE.. loads up an SP and a lvl 1 tractor.. zipps in and grabs a ship.. he can nail it with 12 drones in 55 seconds and the AI can't do anything about it.. WW won't launch and PD can't compensate for it.. Having the AI set with a lvl 2 repulsor, or even having the script enable a lvl 2 repulsor after the phaser capacitor charges would change how mission are run to some extent... plus it would give the AI a chance to fight back.

Now if Dave can get the scripts to recognize when a player is taking a ship with a drone control of >6, and generate escorts for the enemy, then I would rather go that way as you suggest.. but if that isn't possible, then some alternative needs to be done.

If Dave can randomize fighter load outs, then that would be fantastic for the HC scripts.. for the general D2 ED scripts.. the community can debate over that..

If Dave can't randomize the fighters, then I would suggest for the HC server to go with the best of the middle class of fighters available.

I would prefer the loadout be randomized on the AI, this way, you may get 3 carriers, and you will have a chance of having early era fighters, mid era fighters and late era fighters.. and no telling what the AI has until they are launched.. then you will have to change yo fight to killing fighters first and then dealing with the carriers...

but again, as dizzy stated, it depends on what Dave can and can't do in the scripts.

[marstone]

Wish you luck Pesy, but after being told that most of us don't know anough to have a valid opinion on this, I guess we should sit back and see how it goes.

That being said, I still have my wingman turning against me after he is dead.  (not sure if that was worked on yet, or not, but it just happened a minute ago).

[Pestalence_XC]

I have never stated anything like that about anyone here..

What I am doing is taking suggestions from the community, testing them out. and seeing what will and will not work, and then consider how those changes will effect a server where the AI will be gunning for you in 2x the hull you have...

Now I have done some testing with Dizzy.. and fast drones are a problem..

I want the AI to smack people around, I want people to run from them, however I also want the missions at least somewhat winable if you use strategy and tactics as well as maybe even getting a wing to help ya out..

I don't want a situation of going against an unbeatable AI.. that ruins the balance..

I also don't want people running 5 min missions.. I am aiming for missions running 15 to 30 min average.. sometimes longer depending on the odds..

I want planet and assaults to seem like breaking into Fort Knox with a pellet gun and you have to use your wits and skills to beat the scenario.

I want the missions to drive people to go for PVP...

Currently the AI is a milk run.. OK some one just moved into the hex above me.. I don't want PVP, I want to take this hex on the map.. I can do that in 30 min with my 1:20 mission times...

OOPS now the AI are monsters.. and killing the Ai may take anywhere from 10 min to 2 hours.. so now I want the PVP to get a break from the AI..

However I don't want the AI so powerful that you can not win...

Marstone.. keep posting suggestions.. I am attempting to go through them all ... Right now I am testing some scripts on the Hardcore server.. If you have been on there, you will notice that the ED scripts are much easier than the HC scripts.. just wait until I turn the AI back up.. the ED scripts will be almost as hard as the XC scripts..

Wait until you get the Base Assault XC scripts, or the ship yard script or the Planet Assault script, or the new planet model by I, Mudd, or the Home World Assault scripts.. plus other idea scenario scripts that I have plans for..

Hardcore is going to be Hardcore..

the ED scripts will be for standard servers.. the XC scripts are being made for a custom campaign but will be a permanent part of the hardcore Fun Server.. Other servers may take advantage of some of the scripts as well in the future..

It all depends on what we are doing now.. we are actually working to improve the Dynaverse.. much like DIP was suppose to do.. we are actually doing it here and now.

Keep up the ideas.. and if possible run some tests on your own in Single Player or GSA to see if your ideas will work or not..

and keep up the testing on the scripts.. I am sure Dave is loving the feedback that everyone is giving him.

[marstone]

I have never stated anything like that about anyone here..

No YOU haven't, you have always seem very open to alternative views of people.

Thus is why I still diddle on your server and shall send in bugs if I see them.

Looking forward to the new planet scripts.  I don't recall seeing the names on the scripts to tell the differnce from the HC and ED scripts but will look alittle harder. 

Shall diddle when I can, still working on the Q3 graphic stuff and pulling out my hair (I not a graphics guy). So the server is a nice diversion from it.

[Pestalence_XC]

At the end of the mission in the debriefing screen, you will see the name of the mission.. like Met_XCPlayerPatrol or Met_EDEnemyCombat

Since it is in the Debriefing screen, that should give you all the time you need to write the name of the mission and notes on the bugs.
 

[marstone]

At the end of the mission in the debriefing screen, you will see the name of the mission.. like Met_XCPlayerPatrol or Met_EDEnemyCombat

Since it is in the Debriefing screen, that should give you all the time you need to write the name of the mission and notes on the bugs.
 

that was where I was going to check, I do just a brief look right now, so next mission I was going to check it out.  Thanks.

[marstone]

just for the chuckles I dug up the line that bothered me.

 "I don;t doubt they are willing to waste their time either with little informed inexperienced player ideas..."

part of the debate on drones and such (debate, yeah lol).

Thus even tho I have been playing SFB solid for about 15 years (been out for many years now), and was heavy in SFC until SFCIII came out, I still fall under the inexperienced player area since I have only just gotten back into it in the past year or so.  I agree with the person this was aimed at, thus many of us are lumped under this statement.

Don't get me wrong, I am not upset or holding a grudge or such.  But some of the higharchy of the D2 really don't want debate, they want people to agree with them (or so it seems).  I will say, I am getting alittle tired of seeing posts telling people who are just trying to put out a point of view that they just don't know anough about it. (many have been at me, and at others I think seem to have a good grasp of the game). 

So looking forward to having 10 years of straight SFC gaming under my belt and have server experience back to the stone age (well, as far back as I can go now that I am starting so late).

Ahh, there that is out now.  So I will probably still throw in my two cents.  I will pick out the stuff more important to me to do it on.  Keep up the good work, looking forward to more HC server time.

 

[[KBF]MuadDib]

As for the repulsor.. You do have a point.. However what Dizzy and I were discussing if a player taking a Mirak ship.. Z-DE.. loads up an SP and a lvl 1 tractor.. zipps in and grabs a ship.. he can nail it with 12 drones in 55 seconds and the AI can't do anything about it.. WW won't launch and PD can't compensate for it.. Having the AI set with a lvl 2 repulsor, or even having the script enable a lvl 2 repulsor after the phaser capacitor charges would change how mission are run to some extent... plus it would give the AI a chance to fight back.

can you stop the ai from firing at range 30, as they do without fail, loading up a repulsor may have power drawbacks for the ai...