Topic: Hardcore Server NEW SCRIPTS testing (Read 91052 times)

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #100 on:** July 23, 2008, 03:12:28 pm »

Fast AI droners in late would put de-nerfed escorts back into play

FPF-DieHard · « **Reply #101 on:** July 23, 2008, 03:17:37 pm »

Quote from: KBF-Crim on July 23, 2008, 03:12:28 pm

Fast AI droners in late would put de-nerfed escorts back into play

Which is exactly why it's stupid. You're required to fly a ship like that to not get your ass blown up. We saw the same sh1t years ago back in the first AOTK. Missions made so difficult that the only viable ships were droners/escorts/etc . . . gave us a whole "generation" of pilots who never learned how to fly real ships.

(de-nerfed escorts are coming back anyway, including some for the plasma races

)

Pestalence_XC · « **Reply #102 on:** July 23, 2008, 03:33:52 pm »

Looking at the course of this thread.. it would seem that ships having random load outs would be best.. some ships have Med speed small drones.. others have fast heavy drones, others have fast small drones.. others have med heavy, others have slow heavy and still some others have slow light..

and all this in 1 mission.. This I think would be the best solution.. that way you never know what you are going to get.

this would make for a good balance, if the mix is random..

If this is not possible, then the next step is to limit drone speed to Med...

I would prefer that in 1 vs 1 Ai missions, you get era accurate drones.. in a 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1, then med speed drones in mid era and late..

I do need to do some testing with the scripts in single player against Mirak ships to see how bad the enemy is going to be with the current scripts.. If my F-BCF pulls 3 Mirak DN Droners, then I need to see how many drones are in the air at one time and if they can be countered.. the key is speed and distance, but at the same time getting in close enough for the AI to actually fire the drones..

Anyhow, I'll test tonight and see what happens.

FPF-DieHard · « **Reply #103 on:** July 23, 2008, 03:52:26 pm »

Quote from: Cptn_Pestalence_XC on July 23, 2008, 03:33:52 pm

Looking at the course of this thread.. it would seem that ships having random load outs would be best.. some ships have Med speed small drones.. others have fast heavy drones, others have fast small drones.. others have med heavy, others have slow heavy and still some others have slow light..

and all this in 1 mission.. This I think would be the best solution.. that way you never know what you are going to get.

this would make for a good balance, if the mix is random..

If this is not possible, then the next step is to limit drone speed to Med...

I would prefer that in 1 vs 1 Ai missions, you get era accurate drones.. in a 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1, then med speed drones in mid era and late..

I do need to do some testing with the scripts in single player against Mirak ships to see how bad the enemy is going to be with the current scripts.. If my F-BCF pulls 3 Mirak DN Droners, then I need to see how many drones are in the air at one time and if they can be countered.. the key is speed and distance, but at the same time getting in close enough for the AI to actually fire the drones..

Anyhow, I'll test tonight and see what happens.

You can win this in a BCF, try it in a D5L

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #104 on:** July 23, 2008, 04:00:38 pm »

Quote from: Cptn_Pestalence_XC on July 23, 2008, 03:33:52 pm

...

I do need to do some testing with the scripts in single player against Mirak ships to see how bad the enemy is going to be with the current scripts.. If my F-BCF pulls 3 Mirak DN Droners, then I need to see how many drones are in the air at one time and if they can be countered.. the key is speed and distance, but at the same time getting in close enough for the AI to actually fire the drones..

Anyhow, I'll test tonight and see what happens.

Try your testing with these Pesty - they've been reposted with the cut back supply loadouts and some balance tweaking.

ED ones
XC ones

dave

KBF-Crim · « **Reply #105 on:** July 23, 2008, 04:45:06 pm »

Hey now...I was only meaning that they would be a required part of a fleet....giving the newbs a role covering heavy metal....kinda like what they where designed for...(the escorts..not the newbs...)

I'm not advocating people running solo...

Centurus · « **Reply #106 on:** July 23, 2008, 05:58:17 pm »

Quote from: Cptn_Pestalence_XC on July 23, 2008, 03:33:52 pm

Looking at the course of this thread.. it would seem that ships having random load outs would be best.. some ships have Med speed small drones.. others have fast heavy drones, others have fast small drones.. others have med heavy, others have slow heavy and still some others have slow light..

and all this in 1 mission.. This I think would be the best solution.. that way you never know what you are going to get.

this would make for a good balance, if the mix is random..

If this is not possible, then the next step is to limit drone speed to Med...

I would prefer that in 1 vs 1 Ai missions, you get era accurate drones.. in a 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1, then med speed drones in mid era and late..

I do need to do some testing with the scripts in single player against Mirak ships to see how bad the enemy is going to be with the current scripts.. If my F-BCF pulls 3 Mirak DN Droners, then I need to see how many drones are in the air at one time and if they can be countered.. the key is speed and distance, but at the same time getting in close enough for the AI to actually fire the drones..

Anyhow, I'll test tonight and see what happens.

And this is why I know your hardcore server has great potential. If I may, remember, this is your mod, your baby. Don't let anyone, whether it be me, DH, Dizzy, anyone say what is best for the server, cause it's your server.

You got something great here. It goes against everything that's common and convemient, and adds spice.

KBF MalaK · « **Reply #107 on:** July 23, 2008, 10:31:46 pm »

Quote from: F9thCenturus on July 23, 2008, 05:58:17 pm

Quote from: Cptn_Pestalence_XC on July 23, 2008, 03:33:52 pm
Looking at the course of this thread.. it would seem that ships having random load outs would be best.. some ships have Med speed small drones.. others have fast heavy drones, others have fast small drones.. others have med heavy, others have slow heavy and still some others have slow light..

and all this in 1 mission.. This I think would be the best solution.. that way you never know what you are going to get.

this would make for a good balance, if the mix is random..

If this is not possible, then the next step is to limit drone speed to Med...

I would prefer that in 1 vs 1 Ai missions, you get era accurate drones.. in a 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1, then med speed drones in mid era and late..

I do need to do some testing with the scripts in single player against Mirak ships to see how bad the enemy is going to be with the current scripts.. If my F-BCF pulls 3 Mirak DN Droners, then I need to see how many drones are in the air at one time and if they can be countered.. the key is speed and distance, but at the same time getting in close enough for the AI to actually fire the drones..

Anyhow, I'll test tonight and see what happens.

And this is why I know your hardcore server has great potential. If I may, remember, this is your mod, your baby. Don't let anyone, whether it be me, DH, Dizzy, anyone say what is best for the server, cause it's your server.

You got something great here. It goes against everything that's common and convemient, and adds spice.

I'm still inclined to go with my initial thoughts about fast drones, but after a bit more thought and testing fast (and medium) speed drones would be impractical on a D2 campaign server. Tho missions would be a bit more 'interesting' but harder, the time it takes to win a mission would be many times more than the time another team would take running missions under you. If it was kept to a permanent hardcore type server it would be cool, but since the server is a test server for future D2 campaigns it's a waste of time tweeking a fast drone mission that won't be used on a campaign server.

Pestalence_XC · « **Reply #108 on:** July 24, 2008, 12:08:59 am »

As I stated.. a random load out would be best.. while I do believe in Era accurate drones, Some races like Mirak will wipe the board using fleets of DN Drone boats.. this isn't even counting Mirv racks... and this is just on the AI side alone.

the best that would be hoped for would be either random load outs for each individual ship .. or limiting to Med speed drones..

now 1 vs 1.. I do agree that the ships should come with Era appropriate drones.. but 2vs1 and above with the enemy having the advantage, then the AI needs to either be randomized or limited to Med speed.. in a 2 vs 2, your wing is as good as dead in 1 to 2 volleys once the initial WW is spent.. and that leaves you facing the Mirak with all those fast drones and very few items for PD left aboard..

I want the Hardcore server to me extremely hard to play, but not impossible to beat the AI.. I do want a slim chance of winning on the server.. with Random load outs or limitation of Med speed drones.. you have a chance to win.. a small chance, but a chance none the less.

I will update the new scripts tomorrow however they are limited on the number of drones the Ai can carry.. I don't think that is the solution, since the AI deserve to have full load outs, but I guess it will have to do until Dave figures out how to code in Random load outs or Med Speed.

Pestalence_XC · « **Reply #109 on:** July 24, 2008, 03:21:45 am »

Now that we have updated scripts, again.. the installer is updated..

To uninstall the old installer.. go into your OP directory and find the HC_Uninstall.exe and run it.. and then you can DL and run the new installer..

http://warpcore.110mb.com/Downloads/Hardcore_Installer.zip

Alternatively, you can just install the new scripts over the top of the old ones..

http://warpcore.110mb.com/Downloads/HC_Scripts.zip

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #110 on:** July 24, 2008, 06:25:32 pm »

OK, well after a truly disturbing amount of head-scratching, I finally tracked down what was making the new beasties behave so differently than past scripts.

A minority of AI enemies should now have high-end drones for their era, the rest should have stock slow drones.
Just testing now to make sure I haven't broken anything else, then I'll post the revised beasts

dave

Centurus · « **Reply #111 on:** July 24, 2008, 07:11:44 pm »

Quote from: NuclearWessels on July 24, 2008, 06:25:32 pm

OK, well after a truly disturbing amount of head-scratching, I finally tracked down what was making the new beasties behave so differently than past scripts.

A minority of AI enemies should now have high-end drones for their era, the rest should have stock slow drones.
Just testing now to make sure I haven't broken anything else, then I'll post the revised beasts

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #112 on:** July 24, 2008, 07:36:32 pm »

I think Malak and I and even Pesty, not sure about DH, but if more than one enemy AI has fast drones, the missions is unuseable... If you are going to mix your missions with variable loadouts with three enemy ships, I'd prefer to see the following:

Mid era:
2 ships med drones 1 with slow.

Late: 3 ships with Med drones. Or, 1 ship with fast 2 with slow or best, a variation between these 2.

Centurus · « **Reply #113 on:** July 24, 2008, 07:48:18 pm »

Centurus · « **Reply #114 on:** July 24, 2008, 07:57:59 pm »

*farts*

Walleye · « **Reply #115 on:** July 24, 2008, 11:19:30 pm »

New missions are really cool.

Way to go NW!! I don't know what we would do without you. You are Dynaverse Dude of the Year!!

The AI drones are actually a factor now. Before they were completely irrelevant. I would like to see fast drones on AI in late era to make it even more challenging. It would also do more to prepare mission runners for PvP.

The AI is bigger thus harder but doable. With a wing missions would be easy.

marstone · « **Reply #116 on:** July 25, 2008, 01:09:12 am »

Quote from: Walleye on July 24, 2008, 11:19:30 pm

New missions are really cool.

Way to go NW!! I don't know what we would do without you. You are Dynaverse Dude of the Year!!

The AI drones are actually a factor now. Before they were completely irrelevant. I would like to see fast drones on AI in late era to make it even more challenging. It would also do more to prepare mission runners for PvP.

The AI is bigger thus harder but doable. With a wing missions would be easy.

Is there anyway to assign the AI wingmen to defend the player ship. That way they quit flying off to fight the largest enemy ship and get blown up as quickly. I have always hated the AI wingmen in a starbase assault mission. They fly right up against the SB and get popped, leaving you to fight the three ships and the base yourself. At least if they stuck with you the defending ships would be no problem, AI is still stupid against SB's so they die there but draw fire from you.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #117 on:** July 25, 2008, 08:33:25 am »

Quote from: FCM-Corbomite-XC on July 23, 2008, 12:35:21 am

Dave is there any way to make the Drone and fighter loadouts random (limited by year of course)? I know Firesoul was able to do this in the Coop Ace script.

Fighter loadouts yes, drone loadouts not really. The drone randomization in coop ace actually comes from the game engine, not the script. To quote directly from his coop-ace code ...

Code: [Select]

			fprintf(fp, "SETTING THE DRONE LOADOUT DOES NOT WORK.\n");
			fprintf(fp, "I'm going to leave this in because I put so much work into it.\n");
			fflush(fp);

			ship->mRemoveItemFromStores( item,  value); // DOES NOT WORK
			ship->mSetItemInStores( item, Drone_Speed, value); // DOES NOT WORK.
			ship->mAddItemToStores( item, Drone_Speed, value); // DOES NOT WORK

The way it's working in the dyna is that drafted ships (where we link the in-mission ship to the server ship using the ship's dynaverse id) get the loadout determined by the server -- always slow drones for server AI with the current server kit. Ships generated independently are automatically given the best drones for their era (done by the game engine).

So in late era we can more-or-less fudge it to determine if a ship will have fast drones or slow drones (med sped is not an option), while in mid-era we can fudge it for slow or med speed.

The three routines you see above (RemoveItem, SetItem, and AddItem) were meant to give the scripter control over the loadouts, but were broken in OP (Taldren changed some internal constants when moving from EAW to OP and never got around to updating them in the OP scripting API -- since we don't have the OP code we don't know what they altered/what they altered it to, so we can't work around it).

The routines to change fighter loadouts work, as do the routines to change parts/marines/shuttles, but not the drones.

I'll keep hacking at it for awhile, but for late era it really looks like the choice is fast drones or slow drones.

dave

Corbomite · « **Reply #118 on:** July 25, 2008, 08:50:18 am »

Ahhh, so that's how neutral Pirates get better Drones while the Empire races don't. Can this forced Drone speed thing be implemented on a ship by ship basis or does it go by team?

I know I definitely want random Fighter loadouts on a ship by ship basis and if you can get random terrain working too (based on elements in the hex) you are going to see some seriously happy players!

Thanks for the work Dave!

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #119 on:** July 25, 2008, 09:01:09 am »

It can be ship-by-ship, we just need to draft enough AI to make up the slow-drone portion of the fleet.

(The danger there is that if we get mission drops or screw something up we leave lots of ghost AI behind on the server.)

dave

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