Topic: Hardcore Server NEW SCRIPTS testing

[Centurus]

Actualy, I can see both points of view..

Having the AI with proper load outs will make a tough server...

However Dizzy is correct on the drone speeds.. Imagine getting some Mirak ships in late era.. a fleet of them all flying fast drones.. with the number of reloads that they have and the number of WW you have and Mines and different firing times of the ships.. a player doesn't really stand a chance against the massive drone waves .. now add in to that Fighters with drones and Mirv racks.. It is murder..

Now I'm not advocating stripping of the AI back down to current server levels.. however I can see limiting the AI to Med speed drones.. This way you have to keep speed above 24, which will effect weapon charging rates as well as make you use up your Point Defense, Mines, WW etc..

I have flown on Drone servers and I can understand where Dizzy is coming from.. at the same time, I don't like flying against speed 16 missiles all the time..

Also, I would like the AI to have a chance of having Type IV missiles ... Make the crunch stronger, but also limits the number of drones that they carry...

I'm not saying downgrade the missions.. I'm thinking in terms of overall balance... Now, if the scripts can be coded for it.. in a 1 vs 1 against AI, they sure.. give them Fast Drones in late.. in a 3 vs 1, then a max of Med speed drones..

I just don't know if the scripts are capable of that

Personally, I wouldn't mind having one mission in where I have to fly against high speed drones.  Just to see what it's like.  Again, it's called a hardcore server.

But the speed 24 drones is a nice compromise.

*pours Pestalence a drink*

 

[Pestalence_XC]

Cent.. to get a taste of it, load up a skirmish mission.. and take a Battle Cruiser.. load it out fully

Customize it with 3 enemy Mirak Ai ships with max battle cruiser hulls.. late era, and give them Max settings..

This will give you a taste of running every mission in late era against AI in a 3 vs 1 or 3 vs 2 setting.. the drones will kill ya.

Or set up a solo TCP/IP match and give yourself 3 AI enemies (don't fleet them) and load them out manually.. pick late era, and choose Battle Cruiser hulls, or even  an era appropriate DN.. max their load outs.. You will see how the servers of old went against those droners.

Now Med speed drones are manageable.. but High speed drones.. the server will be nigh impossible in late era..

Now, if you run Med speed drones in Mid and Late era.. the challenge is still extreme, but not impossible.

[Centurus]

I've actually taken some battlecruisers and flown them against late era dreads with max loadouts.

However, it was normally one on one.

EDIT:

These were in single player skirmishes and I didn't win. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Not yet- I only started playing D2 after the GW series. 

There is a reason we stopped using these missions.

[FPF-DieHard]

Does it really matter though?  This is Pesty's server, and he's got the right idea to shake things up.

The server isn't called Hardcore for nothing you know.

Pesty can do whatever he wants, it's his server.   We're just looking for concesus so we can get a mission pack that's more universal.

Besides, it can't be that different than having to outrun plasmas that go speed 36.

With the above statement, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

[FPF-DieHard]

I'll drink to that !!

Some things are worse than death, and unfortunately for me JD is one of em.

My god JD is evil (the drink, not the KBF pilot )!  I hadn't touched that sh!t in years until my best friend got married last year and his hot 21-year-old niece tried to drink me under the table.

Jager is worse, nobody above the age of 22 should drink that crap.

[FPF-DieHard]

I hear ya and agree. Glad I'm saving all the HC installers- they started unbelievably hard and are being 'dumbed down' to make them easier. So much for getting any kind of 'experience' fighting lopsided battles, we'll just waste time fighting stupid A.I. in under equipped ships then get are asses handed to us by live players flying cheesecraft (to pad someones ego).

I see what your saying, but you'll never get better fighting AI anyway.  Even at 2/3 to 1 odds the AI is very stupid and falls for the same tricks all the time.

PS right now us "ego-strokers" are getting our rocks off killing people on GSA in even BPV fights.   

[KBF MalaK]

I'll drink to that !!

Some things are worse than death, and unfortunately for me JD is one of em.

My god JD is evil (the drink, not the KBF pilot )!  I hadn't touched that sh!t in years until my best friend got married last year and his hot 21-year-old niece tried to drink me under the table.

Jager is worse, nobody above the age of 22 should drink that crap.

I can't handle the smell of JD anymore (Way too much one night years ago), so I went south- Tequila baby !!! My friends say I get 'tequila happy' after 6 shots or so, and any more than that I dance.

[FPF-DieHard]

I'll drink to that !!

Some things are worse than death, and unfortunately for me JD is one of em.

My god JD is evil (the drink, not the KBF pilot )!  I hadn't touched that sh!t in years until my best friend got married last year and his hot 21-year-old niece tried to drink me under the table.

Jager is worse, nobody above the age of 22 should drink that crap.

I can drink bad-Tequila forever.  I don't get it, it's harsher that JD yet easier to drink.

I can't handle the smell of JD anymore (Way too much one night years ago), so I went south- Tequila baby !!! My friends say I get 'tequila happy' after 6 shots or so, and any more than that I dance.

[KBF MalaK]

I hear ya and agree. Glad I'm saving all the HC installers- they started unbelievably hard and are being 'dumbed down' to make them easier. So much for getting any kind of 'experience' fighting lopsided battles, we'll just waste time fighting stupid A.I. in under equipped ships then get are asses handed to us by live players flying cheesecraft (to pad someones ego).

I see what your saying, but you'll never get better fighting AI anyway.  Even at 2/3 to 1 odds the AI is very stupid and falls for the same tricks all the time.

PS right now us "ego-strokers" are getting our rocks off killing people on GSA in even BPV fights.   

heh, I noticed !!!

BTW, poking around in Karnaks mission source I think random A.I. loadouts are possible- but talk to Karnak.

correction- era specific random loadouts for A.I.

[Pestalence_XC]

I agree DH.. the ED scripts should be balanced for standard campaign servers.. With the XC scripts, I want something for a hard server that will be constant, with maybe 1 run as a serious campaign to see how it goes..

I do think Fast drones in late on the AI is bad.. Med speed is just fine.. the question is if the scripts can be coded for that or not. Or even random load outs on enemy ships.. a mix would be good as well.

Currently the Hardcore Server is running the scripts for testing new concepts, finding what works and doesn't work, and to find what the player base likes in the server.. beefing up the difficulty, and changing from battle only scripts to a variety of missions with different requirements in order to get a win.. You may have to defend, scan, repair, recover, attack, etc.. not just go in and blow a ship up..

People are tired of monotony of the servers.. people need a variety to keep them happy with a challenge to keep them interested...

The Hardcore server is for those who like flying against nearly impossible odds..

The ED missions are designed to be a challenge, but set for a more general purpose campaign.

[FPF-DieHard]

I hear ya and agree. Glad I'm saving all the HC installers- they started unbelievably hard and are being 'dumbed down' to make them easier. So much for getting any kind of 'experience' fighting lopsided battles, we'll just waste time fighting stupid A.I. in under equipped ships then get are asses handed to us by live players flying cheesecraft (to pad someones ego).

I see what your saying, but you'll never get better fighting AI anyway.  Even at 2/3 to 1 odds the AI is very stupid and falls for the same tricks all the time.

PS right now us "ego-strokers" are getting our rocks off killing people on GSA in even BPV fights.   

heh, I noticed !!!

BTW, poking around in Karnaks mission source I think random A.I. loadouts are possible- but talk to Karnak.

Karnak' missions generate AI is a different manner but they have their own issues as well.   His missions "Time Warp" and pull ships out of era (which is a shame because they are good missions) which is why we stopped using them.   Too many people had issues with fighting X-ships in the 2260s 

[FPF-DieHard]

The Hardcore server is for those who like flying against nearly impossible odds..

The ED missions are designed to be a challenge, but set for a more general purpose campaign.

For serious campaigns, AI battles should be balanced against the low-tier pilots level of skill.  Yes, that means those of us with experience may find things a little routine but it's for the best.   Your challenge should be in fighting humans, I've been saying this since 2002 when I was a n00b.   

[KBF MalaK]

I hear ya and agree. Glad I'm saving all the HC installers- they started unbelievably hard and are being 'dumbed down' to make them easier. So much for getting any kind of 'experience' fighting lopsided battles, we'll just waste time fighting stupid A.I. in under equipped ships then get are asses handed to us by live players flying cheesecraft (to pad someones ego).

I see what your saying, but you'll never get better fighting AI anyway.  Even at 2/3 to 1 odds the AI is very stupid and falls for the same tricks all the time.

PS right now us "ego-strokers" are getting our rocks off killing people on GSA in even BPV fights.   

heh, I noticed !!!

BTW, poking around in Karnaks mission source I think random A.I. loadouts are possible- but talk to Karnak.

Karnak' missions generate AI is a different manner but they have their own issues as well.   His missions "Time Warp" and pull ships out of era (which is a shame because they are good missions) which is why we stopped using them.   Too many people had issues with fighting X-ships in the 2260s 

I'm working with his convoy escort script and I didn't like the randomness of qships, so I uncommented most of his q ship stuff and and removed the randomness of them. He wants me to add a couple things (as a learning experience) and send it back to him. I can hardly wait to see what he thinks of my 'additions', but in some of his other scripts I see there is a random era specific A.I. loadout routine thats NOT commented out. They're a few years old so I'm sure he knows how to fix them. I won't be writing my own for quite a while yet as I'm a better 'hack' than a writer.

I also don't agree that simple A.I. will push peeps to PVP, I think the opposite- impossible A.I. will push peeps to seek PVP, but you (DH and Diz) you've seen me fly PVP, and I stink- this is BECAUSE I learned bad habits flying against easy (stupid) A.I.

[marstone]

If it is the right drone the for era, they should have them.  But they shouldn't have drones that are from an era you are not in yet.  It's a hardcore server, plan on taking a longer fight so they run out of drones then close in.  I think people have been spoiiled by having speed 16 AI drones for too long.

Ur nuts. Look, it's not debatable. Missions that use late era drones on AI ships are getting pulled. Period. Either that or we wont have a dyna in the late era with drone races.

  not debating, just an opinion, you guys are the bosses, do what you think is right.

[marstone]

I'll drink to that !!

Some things are worse than death, and unfortunately for me JD is one of em.

[marstone]

I'm not saying downgrade the missions.. I'm thinking in terms of overall balance...

I thought the purpose of the HC server is to throw balance out the window (which is why it doesn't care about the BPV value of what you fight, it might be a freighter, or a few dreads.

Me flying my usual destroyer, is just as dead against a few Miraks with fast drones as against a few dreads.

But as stated, not a democracy, so this is just an opinion that is just air.  Although I think Pesty should have last say what goes on in his server.  That is what is suppose to make different servers good, each person running them has a choice of what is put in it.  If people hate it, they will not fly it.  Hopefully we will have a few good servers to choose from.  I put the one I was working on on hold as DH is following a very similar course.

[Corbomite]

Does it really matter though?  This is Pesty's server, and he's got the right idea to shake things up.

The server isn't called Hardcore for nothing you know.

Besides, it can't be that different than having to outrun plasmas that go speed 36.

Plasmas don't last 3 turns.

[NuclearWessels]

Partial workaround while I continue the hacking on speed limitations - reduced drone supplies on AI with fast drones. 

Currently I'm setting it to 50% of norm if they have medium speed drones, and 25% of norm if they have fast drones. That's totally arbitrary of course, and folks are free to recommend other settings.  Meanwhile the quest to limit the AI to med-speed drones continues.

dave

[Panzergranate]

You never see balance in real warfare or in table top wargames.... as anyone either involved in or who has played a "battle of the Bulge" wargame.

Complaining to an umpire that the poxy 75mm. on an M4 isn't enough to do more than annoy a Tiger.II. will always fall on deaf ears.

Its up to player skill to deal with superiour enemy equipment.

Balanced games stifle tactical cerativity and ingenuity.

If one can knock a few chunks out of a DN with a DD and make a good escape, then some tacical gain has been made.... the DN player will have to make repairs at a cost.

In old SFB campaigns, imposing damage on enemy ships was worth while as it inconvenienced the enemy.

I managed to put a Fed CA out of a campaign for two subsequent campaign battle after managing to take out 90% of the Warp boxes with.... an F5 of all things. I was just so lucky with the dice just as the other guy was unlucky (and tactically inept) with the dice. Unfortunately, his friends came to his rescue and I had to PLF off of the map. I received no internal hits though the shields did take a hammering.