Topic: Pseudo turn-based ISC conquest campaign?

[FPF-DieHard]

i only see one problem. if it's based on a few hours per day, that's great for people in that timezone. there are people worldwide that play.

how about 2 shifts to alleviate the other side.

Completely up to negotiations between the ISC Supreme Commander (ISC, who' of thunk it) and the Galactic Overload-Dictator(GOD, best I could think of off the cuff).

The entire point of this experiment is to NOT attack when your opponent isn't there, it's why I mused about the non-24/7 nature of the server.  Seriously, what's a GW race member supposed to do when no ISC show up?

[FPF-DieHard]

Fishing eh ?

Back in the day when I had time to play SFB I spent most of my time practicing convoy raids/convoy defense and battling monsters in vanilla Fed cl/ca's until I moved on to pirate ships. Since there's no 'real' pirate ships in OP (as well as no Tholians) I'm back to thinking about convoys-

If you're ISC hexes can't be flipped back to another race, where's the battles going to be ? The front.

I'm not thrilled with that situation as the frontline ships need supplies and repair and thats where I'd prefer to hit them. One may not always KNOW there are ships on the front but surely there's ships in the shipping lanes between the held planets, bases, distribution depot's, etc. I have yet to see a convoy escort mission in a D2 campaign and I think it has lots of possibilities for PVP action. What if you could starve a base hex or planet for a few weeks (in SFC:OP time), would the hex be abandoned by the ISC and revert back to neutral ?? Maybe capture a few cargo ships with supplies the non ISC races could use ?? maybe a diplomat or 2 ?? Capturing a few gucci weapons would be nice but as pirate ship option mounts aren't implimented in OP they'd be useless- unless you could sell them on the black market for PP points. These cargo ships are going to REQUIRE escorts manned by live players, and live players are going to raid these convoys as well as fight the heavies at the front lines. That should be enough to maintain a good balance of heavies and 'wolf pack' raiders.

Some editing will need to be maintained on the map to define the shipping lanes between captured facilities as well as some custom mission creation (I hope to be able to help with that) but I don't think much new content will need to be created (c'ept maybe a random cargo manifest for the convoys).

Just an idea.

Everything you presented above is good and hopefully we'll be able to see all of this implemented in SFC4.  I would love to see a Dyna where stuff like that has a reall affect on the game.   Could you imagine if a base had a stockpile of parts/drones/etc . ..  and if you cut off the convoy's the players couldn't supply?  That would be awesome and I'd love to see stuff like that implemented.

Raiding convoys and other behind the scenes mayhem works in the sense of a grand war but it's kinda out of scope for this idea.   In this idea, the GW powers win simply by STOPPING the ISC.  it's a simple slugfest.

[Corbomite]

My one stipulation would be that DH and Corbo cannot be stacked up on the ISC side as this whole thing will be no contest.

Yeah DH and I ruled so much together that our side lost 

Now your going to start telling people what they can fly and who they can fly with? We're to be punished for being too good? Why not just have DH and me as the entire ISC force?

[FPF-DieHard]

My one stipulation would be that DH and Corbo cannot be stacked up on the ISC side as this whole thing will be no contest.

Yeah DH and I ruled so much together that our side lost 

Now your going to start telling people what they can fly and who they can fly with? We're to be punished for being too good? Why not just have DH and me as the entire ISC force?

We'd need a 3rd . . . 

[KBFLordKrueg]

*deposits 2 cents*

One problem I see already with having the server up only for a few hours at a time is it restrict our player base even more...
I know DH is on Eastern time, but many are not. I know we have a significant number of west coasters who don't even get on line until the wee hours for the eastern coast.
Not to mention several players from the UK and Europe. It is still a global game, not just a local deal. 

RE: The comment "we're so good our side lost"...
Your side massacred us in PvP (well, a good portion of that was the disputed Run-off thing) but your side, specifically DH gained the most points in PvP.
Your side lost due to the complete lack of map points in round 2, period.
Had you had even 3 planets, it would have been a different ball game, you would have won easily.
Obviously, "hex flipping" is a part of any campaign if there are any points to be gained by territory possesion.
That takes time, again, having limited server time is going to be problematic for these objectives.

Guys, face it, this is not the player base of old, when you kept refreshing to look for an open spot on a server and 80% of players lived for PvP.
If that was the case today, we'd have a helluva lot more players on campaign servers looking to fight and server admins wouldn't feel the need to make rules about giving points for mere disengagement.  *jab, jab* 
IMOHPO, I believe any server revolving around scoring based solely on PvP will have an ultra-low population.

The question is, do you want to make a server appealing to a very small group, or do you want to make a server for the entire community to try and keep interest in this game alive...?

[FPF-DieHard]

*deposits 2 cents*

One problem I see already with having the server up only for a few hours at a time is it restrict out player base even more...
I know DH is on Eastern time, but many are not. I know we have a significant number of west coasters who don't even get on line until the wee hours for the eastern coast.
Not to mention several players from the UK and Europe. It is still a global game, not just a local deal. 

This would be a turn-based game PvP game that happened to take place on a Dyna.  NOT a hex-flipping contest.  There would be ZERO point in flying when your enemy isn't there, leaving the game up 24/7 would make no sense.  Yeah, not everyone would be able to make it but so what?  If you want to fight AI play single-player.

The "open" window would be I'm thinking 6 PM eastern to 2 AM.  Again this can be negotiated between whoever is running the sides but I seriously see no point in leaving a server up 24/7 when there is no point in one side attacking the AI.

It gives us a chance in to have PvP in a strategic context.  GSA is dead and with OP was stupid anyway with all the 450 ADV m00ks.  A true-turn based campaign won't fly either as it is too much work to coordinate.   This would be easier, you set production, assign ships using the OCI (or a spreadsheet and the Honor System if Flatfile), meet on the dyna for X-amount of hours to fight out the round.  Rinse, repeat.

The question is, do you want to make a server appealing to a very small group, or do you want to make a server for the entire community to try and keep interest in this game alive...?

If the majority of the the community wants to flip hexes, I honestly don't care anymore.   If I can get 3 players on each side for this, it's a go.

I'd rather poke my eye out with a rusty screw-driver than run/play on another hex-flipping server.  Having to fly 8-14 hours a day flipping hexes so my side doesn't get wiped off the map is a collasal waist of time and I will never do it again. 

[Corbomite]

RE: The comment "we're so good our side lost"...
Your side massacred us in PvP (well, a good portion of that was the disputed Run-off thing) but your side, specifically DH gained the most points in PvP.

Poor rules design and poor judgement by your pilots (i.e. failure to see the writing on the wall and disengage) does not make DH a one man VC machine. They seemed to have enough sense to disengage most times when I met them.

Your side lost due to the complete lack of map points in round 2, period.
Had you had even even 3 planets, it would have been a different ball game, you would have won easily.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The point is we didn't and we lost. That just proves my point that two good pilots don't make a whole lot of difference either way.

[FPF-DieHard]

Please keep AOTK4 out of this, that's the past.

What I'm looking to do is a turn-based Strategic game where the turns are played out on the D2.  It's NOT a D2 server.   That's how you have to look at it.

[Lepton]

My one stipulation would be that DH and Corbo cannot be stacked up on the ISC side as this whole thing will be no contest.

Yeah DH and I ruled so much together that our side lost 

Now your going to start telling people what they can fly and who they can fly with? We're to be punished for being too good? Why not just have DH and me as the entire ISC force?

I'm sorry if I don't want to participate in any ego-stroking event for the dynamic duo.  If you think that people will not show up when their side starts losing a hex-munching server, just wait til you two "gentlemen" start pwning everyone in your cheezy ISC BS.  I certainly won't be showing up for that crap.

[FPF-DieHard]

My one stipulation would be that DH and Corbo cannot be stacked up on the ISC side as this whole thing will be no contest.

Yeah DH and I ruled so much together that our side lost 

Now your going to start telling people what they can fly and who they can fly with? We're to be punished for being too good? Why not just have DH and me as the entire ISC force?

I'm sorry if I don't want to participate in any ego-stroking event for the dynamic duo.  If you think that people will not show up when their side starts losing a hex-munching server, just wait til you two "gentlemen" start pwning everyone in your cheezy ISC BS.  I certainly won't be showing up for that crap.

That won't happen either, if it starts being that lop-sided I'll suspend the campaign. 

The fleeting rules will be setup so the ISC's "pwnage" will be even. 

[Corbomite]

My one stipulation would be that DH and Corbo cannot be stacked up on the ISC side as this whole thing will be no contest.

Yeah DH and I ruled so much together that our side lost 

Now your going to start telling people what they can fly and who they can fly with? We're to be punished for being too good? Why not just have DH and me as the entire ISC force?

I'm sorry if I don't want to participate in any ego-stroking event for the dynamic duo.  If you think that people will not show up when their side starts losing a hex-munching server, just wait til you two "gentlemen" start pwning everyone in your cheezy ISC BS.  I certainly won't be showing up for that crap.

I didn't design the server, the rules or the ships. In fact I said the kitties had a long range fire advantage before it even started. I flew more Fed than I did ISC this server in a CAD+ most of the time and got drafted exactly once in it. Bad luck for you. Go whine in your beer somewhere else.

[Lepton]

Not talking about ATOK 4, bud.  I'm addressing what some could see as a rather transparent set-up for an all PvP server that would likely stack the deck for one side, the ISC, particularly if certain player combinations are permitted.  If DH and company are merely looking to humiliate more KBF fellows, I am not interested.  If we talking about setting up some interesting scenarios and playing them out while keeping some eye on balance and fun, then I am all for this particular campaign.

Basically, if it is going to degenerate into more back-biting, pissing matches, and dick measuring bull crap, count me out.

[Corbomite]

I have nothing to do with this campaign either. For the record I think its a horrible idea and had no real intention of playing on it. It sounds boring as hell. DH took an off handed comment I made and thought up this thing all by himself. I told him I didn't think anyone one would play, but that doesn't mean I can't come up with constructive ideas to make it work for those who might. The only reason I know more than anyone else is DH wouldn't shut up about it for, like, hours!

[FPF-DieHard]

Not talking about ATOK 4, bud.  I'm addressing what some could see as a rather transparent set-up for an all PvP server that would likely stack the deck for one side, the ISC, particularly if certain player combinations are permitted.  If DH and company are merely looking to humiliate more KBF fellows, I am not interested.  If we talking about setting up some interesting scenarios and playing them out while keeping some eye on balance and fun, then I am all for this particular campaign.

Basically, if it is going to degenerate into more back-biting, pissing matches, and dick measuring bull crap, count me out.

I have no need to measure my dick, bite anyone's back, or humiliate anyone (except Hexx who hasn't been around for months).  I'm simply tired of mindlessly flipping hexes.

I'll tell you what Lepton, I'll fully include you on the discussions regarding the fleeting rules when myself and the RM's negotiate this.  Please don't be so negative about this, this is what you've been looking for for years.

[FPF-DieHard]

I have nothing to do with this campaign either. For the record I think its a horrible idea and had no real intention of playing on it. It sounds boring as hell. DH took an off handed comment I made and thought up this thing all by himself. I told him I didn't think anyone one would play, but that doesn't mean I can't come up with constructive ideas to make it work for those who might. The only reason I know more than anyone else is DH wouldn't shut up about it for, like, hours!

Hey, if nobody wants to play that's fine.  It won't get off the ground.  A day or two of postings is all the time waisted on it. 

[Lepton]

Not talking about ATOK 4, bud.  I'm addressing what some could see as a rather transparent set-up for an all PvP server that would likely stack the deck for one side, the ISC, particularly if certain player combinations are permitted.  If DH and company are merely looking to humiliate more KBF fellows, I am not interested.  If we talking about setting up some interesting scenarios and playing them out while keeping some eye on balance and fun, then I am all for this particular campaign.

Basically, if it is going to degenerate into more back-biting, pissing matches, and dick measuring bull crap, count me out.

I have no need to measure my dick, bite anyone's back, or humiliate anyone (except Hexx who hasn't been around for months).  I'm simply tired of mindlessly flipping hexes.

I'll tell you what Lepton, I'll fully include you on the discussions regarding the fleeting rules when myself and the RM's negotiate this.  Please don't be so negative about this, this is what you've been looking for for years.

Whatever anyone decides is fine with me regarding fleeting rules.  I wouldn't have the first clue as to what to suggest on those issues.  If you can get people behind the idea, I will be there.  At this point, I don't know if that is a help or hindrance to the cause.  It seemed to me that you were pretty happy with the PBR rules to some degree.  You might just start with that to get things off the ground and actually see if people will show up to such an event rather than making extensive and complicated plans and finding no one comes to the party.  To my mind, the simpler the rules the better.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Seems to me this is great for PvP training.  Since I haven't had much of anything, if I have the time, I'll fly in it.

Personally I think this is something that would work well, as long as its balanced.  Obtaining, then maintaining the balance is going to be the tricky part.

I've got a big move coming up here, starting thursday, my internet wont even be back up until next week friday.  Possibly I'll be able to do some work on my Fed-Klink border  server idea during that time if I get the move down quickly.

[marstone]

Oh, and maybe no X-Ships for the ISC.

I was thinking the only X-ships could be the F-CX and K-DX like they had in the original SFB.  Neither of those ships are OTT and interestingly enough cost 12 EP to building in F&E.  The same as an I-CCZ . . .

Rules for partial X-refits in SFB just came out, I need to order that book . . ., some of that might make sense here. 

New SFB stuff, woo hoo, I thought they had switched over mainly to the new game.  Off to the starfleetbattles sight I go.

[Wraith 413]

 I'm interested in this concept, DH. 
 Maybe using Jakle's Fleeting rules would be helpful. Especially the 3-PPD limit for an ICS Fleet/Echelon.  How about "bonus points" for PvP matches in CL or smaller class ships?

[FPF-DieHard]

I'm interested in this concept, DH. 
 Maybe using Jakle's Fleeting rules would be helpful. Especially the 3-PPD limit for an ICS Fleet/Echelon.  How about "bonus points" for PvP matches in CL or smaller class ships?

Slider and I will be on TS tonight blowing things up and I'm sure we can BS about this to see if it's feasible.  Considering the reactions of half the "community" I don't think it will be.