Topic: Who will control your electronic devices?

[Nemesis]

Link to full article

The new technology, which has been submitted to the patent office, would connect to all mobiles in a theatre or cinema, for instance, and force them to be quiet or even switch off.

Snap-unhappy

The same document also made reference to technology that could block digital cameras working on the same device, thus preventing copyrighted work, in areas like libraries, being photographed.

Much as I dislike the way such electronics are used without concern for others I also don't like the idea of MY control of MY  property being usurped by others.

[Vipre]

Say goodbye to those "inconvenient" cell phone videos of abuses of power by various law enforcement groups as they'll just roll up, flip the switch on their jammers and proceed to beat the $&@# out of a passing group of nuns. 

[knightstorm]

Last time I went to the movies, they were actually searching peoples bags, and turning away people with camera phones.

[Lieutenant_Q]

Not likely to be done.

Not saying that Microsoft can't do it.  But simply saying that such devices will never be legal to own or operate.  I know it's kind of like Radar Jammers in some states.  Can't legally use them but hows a cop going to know if they are being used?  Similarly how's someone going to know that a phone jammer is being used?  It will be guessing game until someone gets hurt, then I see a big lawsuit against the operator for using it probably involving jail time as well.

[Nemesis]

Lieutenant_Q I think that you are misunderstanding.  As I understand it this is not a jammer.   It acts more like the broadcast flag. 

My understanding is that a command is broadcast that over rides your control of your hardware turning it off or otherwise controlling it. 

[Vipre]

That would appear to contradict this line

The same document also made reference to technology that could block digital cameras working on the same device, thus preventing copyrighted work, in areas like libraries, being photographed.

It sends out a signal/command that renders all digital cameras/video recorders in the area inoperative, sounds like a jamming device to me. It's one thing if it's a one-time signal that shuts the device off but to do the above it'd have to prevent you turning it back on or interfere with the device's operation i.e. jam it.

[Pestalence_XC]

I can see jamming in places where cell phones are requested to be turned off.. like when driving a car.. I have been hit 3 times by people on their cells.

I can also see movie theaters since I am paying $7-$10 a movie, I don't want to see or hear a cell going off or someone texting in front of me. I paid good money to see the movie in a quiet and dark theater.

I can also see jamming in courts, jails, even law offices for security reasons.

I can also see jamming in Libraries.. In the library here, I like to sit back in their Lazy Boy reading a good book and then I get disturbed by someone across the room with Busta Move coming from his phone at a volume that makes most clubs seem quiet in comparrison..

I have broken many a cell phones because of these reasons. I have yet to have Law Enforcement or Courts make me pay for 1. (Easy enough to keep from paying for 1.. most service plans come with free phones.. so the person is out $0. I didn't break their service, just their phone, which they can buy a new one if they like.. but property damage is $0).

There wouldn't be a need for jammers or blockers if people would respect one another and turn their phone off in accordance of the businesses wishes and posted rules..

Here in Texas, it is illegal to drive talking on your cell phone without a hands free device and the phone secured on a proper holder.

I have had 3 new cars already because of the cell phones regardless of me being at fault (1 time.. Trying to avoid being side swiped on my other side by a person on a cell phone) or not.

Jammers should be in every vehicle on the road.. if you want to talk on your phone so badly, pull over and park your car, turn it off and remove the keys for the jammer to shut down. Then you can turn your phone on and talk. Otherwise, wait until you get to where you are going.

[Nemesis]

Or it just sends out a "do not operate" command. 

The actual patent

From the patent:

The present invention includes methods and technologies for defining and administering device manners policy ("DMP"), propagating DMP, reception and recognition of, and compliance with DMP. Such policy may be used to communicate to various mobile and other devices the "manners" with which compliance is expected or required. Similar to some of the social manners honored among people, such as with "no smoking" or "employees only" zones, "no swimming" or "no flash photography" areas, and scenarios for "please wash your hands" or "no talking out loud", devices may recognize and comply with analogous "device manners" policy.

[0003]The present examples provide methods and technologies for defining and administering device manners policy ("DMP"), propagating DMP, reception and recognition of, and compliance with DMP. Such policy may be used to communicate to various mobile and other devices the "manners" with which compliance is expected or required. Similar to some of the social manners honored among people, such as with "no smoking" or "employees only" zones, "no swimming" or "no flash photography" areas, and scenarios for "please wash your hands" or "no talking out loud", devices may recognize and comply with analogous "device manners" policy.

[toasty0]

I find that so far, no matter how hard I try, the Energizer Bunny has the most influence on my electronic devices...

what?

Oh! You meant devices with logic chips.  Never mind.

[Lieutenant_Q]

I can see jamming in places where cell phones are requested to be turned off.. like when driving a car.. I have been hit 3 times by people on their cells.

I can also see movie theaters since I am paying $7-$10 a movie, I don't want to see or hear a cell going off or someone texting in front of me. I paid good money to see the movie in a quiet and dark theater.

I can also see jamming in courts, jails, even law offices for security reasons.

I can also see jamming in Libraries.. In the library here, I like to sit back in their Lazy Boy reading a good book and then I get disturbed by someone across the room with Busta Move coming from his phone at a volume that makes most clubs seem quiet in comparrison..

I have broken many a cell phones because of these reasons. I have yet to have Law Enforcement or Courts make me pay for 1. (Easy enough to keep from paying for 1.. most service plans come with free phones.. so the person is out $0. I didn't break their service, just their phone, which they can buy a new one if they like.. but property damage is $0).

There wouldn't be a need for jammers or blockers if people would respect one another and turn their phone off in accordance of the businesses wishes and posted rules..

Here in Texas, it is illegal to drive talking on your cell phone without a hands free device and the phone secured on a proper holder.

I have had 3 new cars already because of the cell phones regardless of me being at fault (1 time.. Trying to avoid being side swiped on my other side) or not.

Jammers should be in every vehicle on the road.. if you want to talk on your phone so badly, pull over and park your car, turn it off and remove the keys for the jammer to shut down. Then you can turn your phone on and talk. Otherwise, wait until you get to where you are going.

That seems to be something specific to your county.  That's not the case in Harris County.  You can use a phone all you want while driving.  Just don't let it become reckless driving.

Having Jamming devices for Cellular phones opens up too many problems.  If that jamming accidentally blocks a 911 call, and someone dies from it, the person with the jammer should become liable for the death.  Under no circumstances should this kind of technology ever be allowed to be made legal.  If I were writing the laws, anyone operating such a device can and will be charged with Negligent Homicide if their Jammers result in a death.

[Pestalence_XC]

I can see jamming in places where cell phones are requested to be turned off.. like when driving a car.. I have been hit 3 times by people on their cells.

I can also see movie theaters since I am paying $7-$10 a movie, I don't want to see or hear a cell going off or someone texting in front of me. I paid good money to see the movie in a quiet and dark theater.

I can also see jamming in courts, jails, even law offices for security reasons.

I can also see jamming in Libraries.. In the library here, I like to sit back in their Lazy Boy reading a good book and then I get disturbed by someone across the room with Busta Move coming from his phone at a volume that makes most clubs seem quiet in comparrison..

I have broken many a cell phones because of these reasons. I have yet to have Law Enforcement or Courts make me pay for 1. (Easy enough to keep from paying for 1.. most service plans come with free phones.. so the person is out $0. I didn't break their service, just their phone, which they can buy a new one if they like.. but property damage is $0).

There wouldn't be a need for jammers or blockers if people would respect one another and turn their phone off in accordance of the businesses wishes and posted rules..

Here in Texas, it is illegal to drive talking on your cell phone without a hands free device and the phone secured on a proper holder.

I have had 3 new cars already because of the cell phones regardless of me being at fault (1 time.. Trying to avoid being side swiped on my other side) or not.

Jammers should be in every vehicle on the road.. if you want to talk on your phone so badly, pull over and park your car, turn it off and remove the keys for the jammer to shut down. Then you can turn your phone on and talk. Otherwise, wait until you get to where you are going.

That seems to be something specific to your county. That's not the case in Harris County. You can use a phone all you want while driving. Just don't let it become reckless driving.

Having Jamming devices for Cellular phones opens up too many problems. If that jamming accidentally blocks a 911 call, and someone dies from it, the person with the jammer should become liable for the death. Under no circumstances should this kind of technology ever be allowed to be made legal. If I were writing the laws, anyone operating such a device can and will be charged with Negligent Homicide if their Jammers result in a death.

By Texas State law, it is illegal to drive with a cell in your hand.. your county just does not enforce it. If you cause an accident with a cell in your hand and a death occurs, then you can be charged with Negligent Homicide. Anyone seeing a wreck is suppose to stop to render aid by law and remain on the scene to give a statement by law.. as such, the vehicle will be stopped and the cell will work just fine so long as the engine is not running.. takes about 1 second to turn the key, less time than it takes to get your cell to press 911 and send.

Some counties enforce that law, other let it slide.. but by law, you are suppose to have a hands free device for your phone and the phone secured in a holder or on a non slip/slide mat.

What this technology will do is reduce at least 80% of car accidents on the road caused by people talking on their handsets and not paying attention to the road.

Anyone who supports talking on a phone and driving is just as guilty as the one who causes the accident because they could not control their car properly (1 hand on the wheel instead of 2 as stated by the Texas Drivers handbook).. Why would anyone want to support a reckless person behind the wheel of a motor vehicle in the first place. Talking on a phone when driving is reckless to begin with.

More tickets should be given out for Reckless Endangerment when an officer catches someone on their cell phone when driving.. easy way to make the state $500 a pop. You can not properly concentrate on the road, Talk, and handle a car. A person with 2 hands on the wheel and full attention on the road will have an 80% less chance of having an accident than one who is holding a phone, chatting with their friends and paying half arsed attention to the road and only 1 hand on the wheel.

This should technology should be standard equipment in cars world wide.. imagine all the lives it could save. Imagine how many less accidents there will be.

[marstone]

how many people do you see that always keep two hands on the wheel?  How about hands-free conversations (wouldn't be any worse then talking to someone in your own car, heck might be safer as you don't turn your head to look when not talking to someone in your car).

  Seems like more examples of trying to micro manage where governments don't belong.

Now I do like the possibility of private locations choosing if they will block cell activity.  Private choice, put up a sign telling the public they will not get reception and they can choose if they want to enter.

[knightstorm]

how many people do you see that always keep two hands on the wheel?  How about hands-free conversations (wouldn't be any worse then talking to someone in your own car, heck might be safer as you don't turn your head to look when not talking to someone in your car).

  Seems like more examples of trying to micro manage where governments don't belong.

Now I do like the possibility of private locations choosing if they will block cell activity.  Private choice, put up a sign telling the public they will not get reception and they can choose if they want to enter.

Traffic safety is an area where the government doesn't belong?  The problem with cell phones is that people don't look straight ahead when they're talking on them. That's why they end up colliding with Pestelance. 

[Bonk]

  Seems like more examples of trying to micro manage where governments don't belong.

Try these on for size:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/19/spanking-bill.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/19/father-court.html

Can you believe it? 

I have discovered freedom in a Spartan, Plebeian and nomadic lifestyle.

No car? No cops.
No kids? No cops.
No phone? No cops.
No address? No cops.
No woman, no cry. (Thanks Bob)  ... and no lawsuits, cops or violence...

etc...

Cue Firefly themesong. 


(all that said, cellphones are bad for driving and are illegal in this province while at the wheel.)

[Nemesis]

Try these on for size:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/19/spanking-bill.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/19/father-court.html

Can you believe it? 

We are getting away from the topic here. 

The spanking one is unacceptable to me.  Going too far with physical discipline is already covered under child abuse laws.  My experience is that some people require physical punishment, nothing else works on them. 
 
The father - court one had to do with the father trying to enforce his punishment after the child had gone to live with her mother.  The mothers house the mothers rules I would say.  The father offically had custody but did not apparently do anything to return the child to his home and therefore in my opinion forfeited his right to punish her.

[Lieutenant_Q]

One hand on the wheel doesn't constitute careless driving, automatic transmission are not universal, nor will they be.

Whether you have a jammer tied to your ignition switch is pointless, how many people actually turn their car off while idling?  Especially in Texas.  How will the jammer differentiate between a person in the driver seat and the passenger seat?  How will the Jammer NOT jam some person on the sidewalk that you just drove by?

I'm sorry that you feel this way Pesty, but your bad luck behind the wheel shouldn't be the basis for laws restricting anyone's freedom.  These Jammers are dangerous in of themselves, I would say more dangerous than what they are trying to stop.

In regards to Harris county not enforcing the law, they're too busy making sure that you're not harassing illegals to enforce that one.  Just like the one where they are supposed to be deporting them.  Too busy blocking the flow of traffic on major arteries for a small church.  I wonder if they block the road for the Mosque up the street.  I may have to look at that one day...

[Just plain old Punisher]

The instant someone tries to call 911 and is foiled by a jammer is the instant said user of jammer gets slapped with a wrongfull death lawsuit.

If you DO want a cheap cell phone jamming device, head on over here: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4355

Short range but for 40 bucks it can't be beat.

[Centurus]

In a movie theater, it's probably a good idea.  I know I could have used such a jammer when I was house manager at my college's theater all those times, and one of my friends in the cast was an epileptic, and could have a seizure from the cameras that people use even after I tell them not to use them.

Personally, however, I wouldn't want one in cars.  I've been rear ended by a guy driving on his cell phone myself, and I personally don't like the idea of having a jammer in a car.

Personally, I'd much rather have stronger penalties for people who talk on their cell phones while driving, unless it's an emergency.

Instead of having fines of only a couple hundred, make it a thousand, or a couple thousand.  Have it go against your license like unpaid tickets and car accidents.  Enough times, your license is suspended, and who knows, you're prevented from having a cell phone for a couple years.

But if I'm riding shotgun or in the backseat, I'd like to know I can use my cellphone if I need to or want to.  And for me, I only use my cell when I need to.  That's why I have Virgin Mobile.  It's prepaid.

[marstone]

  Well, as a side note of a jammer in my car, if it ever does come to pass.  That will be one fuse pulled/wire cut etc in my car.  Sort of like the Air bag I have to disable as my wife is only 4'10" and there isn't even a hands width between the steering wheel and her (got to love manditory explosives in a car)

[Nemesis]

Personally, I'd much rather have stronger penalties for people who talk on their cell phones while driving, unless it's an emergency.

I agree.  Escalate penalties for endangering other people.  Just as has been happening to those who drink and drive.