Topic: AOTK4 BB's fielded

[Pestalence_XC]

Coalition requested BB's to take the field.. No specific races requested.. as such all races unlocked.. 40 VC's spent on BB's


Federation Unlocks their BB for the Alliance .. 10 VC's Spent on this BB


Remember 1 BB on the field at any 1 time for either side.. only 1 BB for alliance side and 1 BB for Coalition side can be fielded at any 1 time.

[FPF-DieHard]

Federation Unlocks their BB for the Alliance .. 10 VC's Spent on this BB

Cool, I was thinking I wasn't quite flying enough cheese!!

[Pestalence_XC]

Alliance unlocks ISC BB for 10 PTS..

[KBFLordKrueg]

40 VCs..??!! 

That was not the way it worked on ATOK3...
As a matter of fact, on ATOK3 I posted we were going to spend 40 VCs to unlock all 4 races BBs and was told 10 VCs unlocked all 4 races VCs...

It also does not specify in the rules that it would be completely different from ATOK 3 in that aspect.

Rather than have to go back and re-edit everything, and considering the amount of VCs we have, I'll let this slide without raising too much hell about it, but,
That is NOT how is was on ATOK 3 and I understood this was to funtion exactly like ATOK 3.

In the future I would suggest such things are more clearly outlined in the rules section, rather than assuming we'll know...

[Pestalence_XC]

I went by what DH told me the costs were...

As such.. Chat with him.. tis his ruleset..

I was told that it was 10 VC per race.. that is what I posted.. Alliance spent 20 VC  Coalition spent 40..

If you chat with DH on this, then I'll adjust amounts spent for BB's

I asked him tonight  "how much are BB's?" I was told 10 VC's per race...

Just going by what the rule maker stated..

If you are not happy.. get with the rule maker.. I'm just following what I was told on the costs.

[Lepton]

Who didn't see this coming?  As soon as I saw 40 VC points, I knew there had been a significant miscommunication.  I do think it a bit of a stretch that, since no race was specified in whatever communication that did occur, this meant the Coalition intended to spend 40 VC for 4 BBs.  I am sure the situation is easily remedied though.

[Pestalence_XC]

This is the rule as posted in AOTK4 Rules thread

Battleship activation:  All BBs by default will be restricted.  BBs can be unrestricted at the cost of 10 VC points.  Each side will start with 10 VC points in the bank to they will be able to unlock at least 1 BB or they can choose to not spend the points to add to their score.


I read this as :

Klingons put out 1 BB, 10 VC points..

Fed put out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Roms put out 1 BB, 10 VC points

ISC puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Mirak puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Lyran puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Hydran puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Gorn puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points


Krued stated he wamted Coalition BB's and not stating specific races, I took that as he wanted all the coalition race BB's fielded.. and asking DH as well as reading the rule.. to me it states 10 VC's per BB.. given each race is getting a BB, that is 4 BB's or 40 VC's.

Alliance responded with Fed and ISC BB ships.. or 20 VC's

Am I wrong on the reading of the rule, or DH telling me that each race is charged 10 VC's per BB fielded wrong?

[FPF-DieHard]

This is the rule as posted in AOTK4 Rules thread

Battleship activation:  All BBs by default will be restricted.  BBs can be unrestricted at the cost of 10 VC points.  Each side will start with 10 VC points in the bank to they will be able to unlock at least 1 BB or they can choose to not spend the points to add to their score.


I read this as :

Klingons put out 1 BB, 10 VC points..

Fed put out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Roms put out 1 BB, 10 VC points

ISC puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Mirak puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Lyran puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Hydran puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points

Gorn puts out 1 BB, 10 VC points


Krued stated he wamted Coalition BB's and not stating specific races, I took that as he wanted all the coalition race BB's fielded.. and asking DH as well as reading the rule.. to me it states 10 VC's per BB.. given each race is getting a BB, that is 4 BB's or 40 VC's.

Alliance responded with Fed and ISC BB ships.. or 20 VC's

Am I wrong on the reading of the rule, or DH telling me that each race is charged 10 VC's per BB fielded wrong?

10 VCs per race to unlock a BB.   Don't be cheap, live a little and let's rock!

[KBFLordKrueg]

I went by what DH told me the costs were...

As such.. Chat with him.. tis his ruleset..

I was told that it was 10 VC per race.. that is what I posted.. Alliance spent 20 VC  Coalition spent 40..

If you chat with DH on this, then I'll adjust amounts spent for BB's

I asked him tonight  "how much are BB's?" I was told 10 VC's per race...

Just going by what the rule maker stated..

If you are not happy.. get with the rule maker.. I'm just following what I was told on the costs.

lol..it's not that I'm unhappy or anything, don't everyone jump on the bandwagon here, gents.
I'm OK with it...I was just pointing out that wasn't the way it worked on ATOK 3 and it was my understanding the was the same here.
It's really not a big deal, so everybody calm back down about it, OK?
jeeze...

[FPF-DieHard]

i'm calm, just mildly  intoxicated

[KBF MalaK]

I went by what DH told me the costs were...

As such.. Chat with him.. tis his ruleset..

I was told that it was 10 VC per race.. that is what I posted.. Alliance spent 20 VC  Coalition spent 40..

If you chat with DH on this, then I'll adjust amounts spent for BB's

I asked him tonight  "how much are BB's?" I was told 10 VC's per race...

Just going by what the rule maker stated..

If you are not happy.. get with the rule maker.. I'm just following what I was told on the costs.

If I'm not mistaken DH surrendered any authority he HAD on this server when he abandoned the project to you. He's nothing more than a player now and YOU make the rules now- it's YOUR server.

[Pestalence_XC]

In that case, I think 10 VC's per BB per race is fair.. It hasn't hurt the Coalition any in the point standings

Alliance is at 235 points.. total for 3 weeks

Coalition is at 313 points.. total for 3 weeks

Coalition has a 78 point lead and this is the last week of the server

So I think that the 10 Pts for each race to unlock a BB is fair... Plus if a BB gets killed, that means that race has to spend 10 more VC to put another one out if they want to.. however I don't see any race losing a BB at the cost of 20 VC for the loss and 10 VC to build another one..

[KBF MalaK]

Sure 10 is fair, but whats the point of activating 4 BB's if you can only field 1 at a time ?? If I read the rules correctly the 10 pts. is an activation cost, so if an activated racees BB is lost and another of the same race builds a BB it costs NOTHING, right ?

[KBFLordKrueg]

In that case, I think 10 VC's per BB per race is fair.. It hasn't hurt the Coalition any in the point standings

Alliance is at 235 points.. total for 3 weeks

Coalition is at 313 points.. total for 3 weeks

Coalition has a 78 point lead and this is the last week of the server

So I think that the 10 Pts for each race to unlock a BB is fair... Plus if a BB gets killed, that means that race has to spend 10 more VC to put another one out if they want to.. however I don't see any race losing a BB at the cost of 20 VC for the loss and 10 VC to build another one..

Like I said before...
In the future, these things need to be made more clear in the rules.
Being told "it's just like the last one, same rules, same sides" meant just that to me. and none of that is how it worked on ATOK 3.
Then again, we've never had a server where a rule was made targeting a single player, to satisfy a single players, so who knows what changes will be made next...
I just no longer care...

[FPF-DieHard]

If you are going by AOTK3 as the president, Krueg is mistaken.  it was 10 Points per race for unlocking BBs.  I specifically remember the coalition unlocking the Kilingon BB first and then unlocking the rest at the end for the fun of it because the score was already determined.

That said, the wording of the rule could have been a little clearer. 

The ironic part about this is we had no intention of unlocking our BBs at all until the Coalition unlocked theirs . . .

[FPF-DieHard]

I went by what DH told me the costs were...

As such.. Chat with him.. tis his ruleset..

I was told that it was 10 VC per race.. that is what I posted.. Alliance spent 20 VC  Coalition spent 40..

If you chat with DH on this, then I'll adjust amounts spent for BB's

I asked him tonight  "how much are BB's?" I was told 10 VC's per race...

Just going by what the rule maker stated..

If you are not happy.. get with the rule maker.. I'm just following what I was told on the costs.

If I'm not mistaken DH surrendered any authority he HAD on this server when he abandoned the project to you. He's nothing more than a player now and YOU make the rules now- it's YOUR server.

Pesty is absolutely in charge, it's his server at this point.   However, I wrote the rules so when asking for a clarification as to what something is INTENDED to mean I'm the person to ask.  Pesty still has the final call.

On AOTK3 this was debated and by the time the server started people understood what eveything meant.  That server was over a year ago so I understand people not remembering. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Then again, we've never had a server where a rule was made targeting a single player, to satisfy a single players, so who knows what changes will be made next...

Nonsense.   Rotting Fur, Deep striking bases and then running away and not staying when drafted, are 2 examples of rules that cam about because of specific pilots.   i'm sure there are more.

[Pestalence_XC]

Sure 10 is fair, but whats the point of activating 4 BB's if you can only field 1 at a time ?? If I read the rules correctly the 10 pts. is an activation cost, so if an activated racees BB is lost and another of the same race builds a BB it costs NOTHING, right ?

This is the rule as posted in AOTK4 Rules thread

Battleship activation:  All BBs by default will be restricted.  BBs can be unrestricted at the cost of 10 VC points.  Each side will start with 10 VC points in the bank to they will be able to unlock at least 1 BB or they can choose to not spend the points to add to their score.


Again referring to the rule

1 BB costs 10 VC .. Klingon BB is far different from a Rom BB .. as such a Klink BB is 10 VC and a Rom BB is 10 VC.

If Klingon BB gets killed, the other side gets 20 VC for the kill, the Klingons would have to spend another 10 VC to field another BB

Same goes for Fed.. if the Fed BB gets killed, Coalition get 20 VC for the kill and the Feds have to spend 10 more VC to field another one.. it states 10 VC per BB ..

the rules do not state 10 VC per side ... the rules state that each side starts with 10 VC to field a BB but each BB is 10 VC to field..

That means if Coalition wants to field 4 BB's, 1 for each race, that is 40 VC same goes for the Alliance.. if the Alliance wants to field 4 BB's it is 40 VC..

The alternative was to not field any BB's and keep the VC's for the final score

Now only 1 BB can be on the field at one time due to the fleeting rules .. however if Krueg wants to fly a BB as kling.. then he can do so.. say he is done with the BB and wants to park it and Dib wants to take out the Gorn BB.. it is a different BB.. Fleeting rules still apply ...

This is how the Alliance is doing it.. Corb flies the ISC BB for a while.. if he wants something more maneuverable then he sells it off or switches accounts and Sulu can jump into his Fed BB .. they are vastly different ships...

We opted not to currently unlock the Lyran or Mirak BB ships due to not many on our side are familiar with the BB's for those races. Most of the alliance are familiar with ISC and Fed, so it was prudent to unlock only those 2 races.. However if our Lyran Pilot requests the Lry BB, I will take the 10 VC's from our score and let him fly the Lyr BB.. however I have not gotten a Lyr or Mirak request for BB as of yet..



I do agree that the rule was not spelled out as it should have been.. I did not fly on AOTK3 nor was I familiar with how the AOTK 3 rulset worked.. I went over the AOTK 4 ruleset and this is how it read to me.. I went to the maker of the AOTK 4 ruleset and asked what the intent was before I unlocked any BB's and my interpretation was confirmed...

I do apologize that there was a misunderstanding.. Remember, I took over the server after the 3rd day.. I attempted to rebuild the database after a catastrophic corruption and tried to be as fair as possible on assigning PP back to the players.

I have tried to be impartial to everyone on the rules and I was interpreting them to the best of my knowledge.

I made a mistake of not following up with Krueg on the rules about BB's and seeing if there were specific races to unlock..

IIRC, the only BB the Coalition has not put into play as of yet is the Hydran BB and if Krueg likes, I can relock it and the coalition can regain the 10 VC for the Hydran BB.

It is the most fair thing I can think of under the circumstances.

[FPF-DieHard]

1 BB costs 10 VC .. Klingon BB is far different from a Rom BB .. as such a Klink BB is 10 VC and a Rom BB is 10 VC.

If Klingon BB gets killed, the other side gets 20 VC for the kill, the Klingons would have to spend another 10 VC to field another BB

Whooaaaa, that's not the intent of the written rule (again, this is your call 100%).   The 10 points per race spent is just for unlocking it's usage.  The intent of the rule was 10 points to unlock and you can build/loose as many as you want.

[Pestalence_XC]

1 BB costs 10 VC .. Klingon BB is far different from a Rom BB .. as such a Klink BB is 10 VC and a Rom BB is 10 VC.

If Klingon BB gets killed, the other side gets 20 VC for the kill, the Klingons would have to spend another 10 VC to field another BB

Whooaaaa, that's not the intent of the written rule (again, this is your call 100%). The 10 points per race spent is just for unlocking it's usage. The intent of the rule was 10 points to unlock and you can build/loose as many as you want.

Fair enough ... Then unlocking cost was 10 VC, not building them..

as such 10 VC's to unlock per race.. death is 20, run off is 10 and rebuilding a BB is free (or at least the cost of the player PP to buy one).

I stand corrected.. I want to go by the intent of the rule.