Topic: What happened to SFC Direct Play??  (Read 3748 times)

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Offline Lepton

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What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« on: June 14, 2008, 05:46:47 pm »
I remember at one time on this site there was the ability to join a chat server and launch a TCP/IP game from the chat area.  What happened to that functionality and if I may ask, how was it done?


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Offline Bonk

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2008, 06:13:41 am »
Here: http://www.dynaverse.net/sfcdirect/

I haven't looked at it for a while but it should still be working as far as I know.

Offline Lepton

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2008, 11:43:37 am »
So would it be impertinent to ask how it works and if something similar might be used to create a web-based online campaign similar to the dynaverse, i.e. could a multiplayer TCP/IP game be initiated with player ships and information drawn from an web-accessible database?


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Offline Bonk

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2008, 09:36:33 pm »
So would it be impertinent to ask how it works and if something similar might be used to create a web-based online campaign similar to the dynaverse, i.e. could a multiplayer TCP/IP game be initiated with player ships and information drawn from an web-accessible database?

It calls SFC exactly like gamespy does. So ship selection is as for normal tcp/ip games (which has its crosschecks). But any battle reporting would be either on an honour system form on the webpage on battle completion, but better would be custom multiplayer scripts that can report to a configured database connection. ... wait I suppose said scripts could also assign ships based on db info on mission startup yes. So a web based dyna is possible. I have often thought about the mechanics of movement on the OCI setup. I don't think it would be too hard.

Thing is I'm not really a mission scripter, but I suppose I could figure it out if I was determined enough, but I know DarkElf could do it, so could Dave or Karnak, but I cant speak for them, or the exact limits of the scripting api.

Offline Magnum357

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 04:20:59 pm »
I always wanted to play in campaign games.  I've asked people if its possible to do this with just Gamespy Arcade Lobby games, I think it could be done but woull probably take a lot of time and work to setup for a Moderator.  But if you had custom designed senarios, it might have more flexibility then the Dynaverses.  On the Web page, each Hex could represent an era of space (say 20 light years across or something like that) and have a total of 6 mini-battles inside the hex.  The mini-battle map would look kinda like this...

1st    2nd   3rd
                Battle
        Battle
Target       Battle
        Battle
                Battle

The target would be the main objective of the Campaign hex (could be a Base, a planet, or something else) and in order to reach the target in the Hex, you have to get past the 2nd and 3rd battle lines in order to advaned to the target.  If you win the target battle, you win the hex.  There might not be much interest in SFC2 or OP with this, but would be useful with SFC1 since there is no Dynaverse to that game.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 04:43:33 pm »
There were many GSA campaigns using web maps and PHP database.. I use to work with one such group.. the problem is that people don't show up on GSA to engage in the fights.. the RM makes the moves, and players have 24 hours to do the battles or forfeit.. may forfeitted by not showing up at all.. the campaigns soon fell apart on GSA.. after 4 attempts by our group, we gave up..

It was a lot more advanced than the Dyna OCI currently, but the OCI can be modified and made to where it can simulate a D2 server and with the Dynaverse TCP/IP interface to enable battles.. it would be a virtual web based D2.

Anyhow. there are things that can be done however ... the player base is what will make or break the campaigns both online through the web or GSA or on the D2.
"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 05:31:27 pm »
It's a pain in the arse!  As pesty said, people just don't show up to do the battles.  I played on one of these back in the day were a pseudo F&E was used for strategic moves and we fought the tactical battles on GSA.   it ended after 1 turn as the KHH played Mirak, the Klingons were played by a fleet that sucked, and the 9th and KHH killed off most of their ships in the first round!
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Panzergranate

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 06:33:07 pm »
Running a team in a campaign isn't that easy, as we have found with our LAN campaigns with SFC 1.

We have a stand alone computer workout where everything is, deciding what has encountered whatelse, the economics, tactical intelligence from scouts and economc, etc.

However, as a team (Klingon Empire), initially we had problems operating as a team outside of actual SFC LAN battles. The main problem was folks issuing conflicting orders to ships on the campaign computer to one group of ships and o being left sat idle (or in dodgy locations) as they'd not received orders.

For instance, player (A) has a troop convoy he wants to escort to an objective and maybe secure a star system prior to an invasion. He arranges that his troop ships will meet the warships he's selected at coordinates X - Y.

Player (B) has had a run in with the enemy and his CVA battlegroup lost a couple of escorts, which he wants to replace quickly to return to the fray. He scans the campaign computer's inventory and finds a group of suitable escort vessels close by to his CVA battlegroup's location, and so orders them to join his battlegroup.

Later on in the camapign, player (A)'s troopships are at the meeting point wondering where the feck the escorts are.

We've had numerous instances of this occuring on both sides.

We instigated a portfolio system under which players have sole responsibility for issuing orders and managing various elements of the team's units.

I manage all frieghters, tugs,  auxilaries, trawlers and light commerce escorts (Q-Ships, corvettes, etc.)

My son Robert manages all naval warships.

Dave manages all fighter squadrons, PFs, patrol craft (skiffs, gunboats, PT boats, etc.), troop movements and troopships, etc. Yes, he does control the antics of any F5G, D5G and D6G that we have.

This is just for issuing orders on the campaign computer. We all still have our "favourite" warships which we fly if they happen to be in a battle, or fly whatever needs to be flown given a combat situation.

The "Portfolio" system has ended the confusion with issuing orders that existed before and has improved our overall tactical ability in the campaign so far.

Everyone has to put forward their case for the spending of hard earned revenue points on the units they believe that they believe they need. It goes to a vote and a lot of bargaining, concessions, etc. goes on.

Meanwhile, our Kzinti oponents, judging by the arguements, are sticking to the traditional Kzinti methods of squaballing amongst themselves and we sometimes wonder if yet another civil war is about to break out.

Campaigns can be fun and are best fought on LAN in small teams.

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline Lepton

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 07:12:51 pm »
I think the key to a PvP campaign is not to have anything scheduled just as the D2 is not scheduled.  People who are online and want to play pick sides and play matches with a set of available ships and mission types.  A web-based interface could merely streamline such an endeavor.  This is not a ladder league.  It's like a pick-up game but with consequences for a larger strategic context.


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Offline Bonk

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 08:48:36 pm »
I think the key to a PvP campaign is not to have anything scheduled just as the D2 is not scheduled.  People who are online and want to play pick sides and play matches with a set of available ships and mission types.  A web-based interface could merely streamline such an endeavor.  This is not a ladder league.  It's like a pick-up game but with consequences for a larger strategic context.

Exactly, just like the Dynaverse, boost some DVs or flip some hexes if no one is on, and if other people are on, hunt 'em down and kill em!  :2gun:

Bear in mind such missions need not only affect hex DV but could affect economy or even particular shipyards, changing the OoB...  etc. :flame:

Offline Lepton

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 09:22:23 pm »
No AI.  AI is evil.  We need an alternative to the dyna.  Some people who love the game really don't like aspects of the dynaverse.


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Offline Magnum357

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2008, 01:00:19 am »
I think the key to a PvP campaign is not to have anything scheduled just as the D2 is not scheduled.  People who are online and want to play pick sides and play matches with a set of available ships and mission types.  A web-based interface could merely streamline such an endeavor.  This is not a ladder league.  It's like a pick-up game but with consequences for a larger strategic context.

Yes, I agree with Lepton on this.  I think part of the problem why this concept hasn't worked in the past (and this includes many war games in general) is that the Moderators make it too complex and too much like SFB/F&E.  You could have Auxilaries and other secondary units in the campaign, but they could be more of a general algirithum (to simplify things) then an actual unit you should control every campaign turn.  I have this book by ADB (they of course made SFB/F&E) that is called "SFB Campaign Designer's Handbook" which is suppose to give SFB fans a tool to make campaign games as simple or as complex as you want them.  Its a very good read and Lepton's idea here would work well with the handbook.

And I think I agree with Leptons idea of set schedules.  Instead of having certain people that MUST play the games out on GSA (or TCP/IP), "token" the games out to anyone that might want to help out and is available.  Granted, this might drag the campaign out considerably long, but whoever the people are that run the campaign can go to GSA and ask people in the lobby "hey guys, we got a Strategic Battle Going on with the Klingons and Mirak, anyone interested can join our lobby Room to help out the results").  I'm in the GSA lobby a lot, and I'm sure some people could help out with a campaign game or two if the moderators needed players.  They still have Tournament games played with the GSA Lobbies from time to time.

It wouldn't be a perfect system (unbalanced forces for example) but those could be a challenge to some of the better players in the GSA lobby or could be concluded just on the website itself
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Offline FA Frey XC

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2008, 02:28:46 am »
No AI.  AI is evil.  We need an alternative to the dyna.  Some people who love the game really don't like aspects of the dynaverse.

There's a couple options:

1.) Organize a tournament. 100% live players.

2.) Run a campaign with small maps. The current campaigns have been running these humungous maps.

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Offline Bonk

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2008, 06:48:41 am »
No AI.  AI is evil.  We need an alternative to the dyna.  Some people who love the game really don't like aspects of the dynaverse.


I ran an OP Dynaverse server a few years back that would only give missions if there was another human in the draft radius. (small map) It did not work. Well, I mean it worked as intended, but nobody was interested in playing it. Without solo battles how do you build PP to buy ships should you lose one in battle with a human? (I think I gave a large initial PP to account for this).

Of course I did not disable the server AI (stability). I just set it so that it only gave missions when other players were nearby:

Code: [Select]
[ScreenForMatch]
BonusForNearbyForeignCharacters =900
EnemyHexBonus =0 // bonus for a mission in enemy territory
NeutralHexBonus =0 // bonus chance in neutral hexes for a mission
ChanceMove =0 // (30) base chance for a mission on move (increase for more missions in home territory)
ChanceLogon =0
ChanceTurnBreak =0
ChanceMissionComplete =0
ChanceMissionForfeit =0
ChanceGoalExpired =0
ChanceGoalInvalid =0
ChanceGoalComplete =0

It worked quite well, but would occasionally give missions near bases (base AI) or if you encountered a rare server AI.

Let me see if I can dig up the thread for it. Perhaps it was just bad timing?

I think I called it "The Ring"? (as in - get in the ring...)

EDIT: Ah yes, here we go:
Get in "The Ring"?

EDIT2: there were some good suggestions in that thread though.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 06:59:28 am by Bonk »

Offline Lepton

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Re: What happened to SFC Direct Play??
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2008, 07:40:55 pm »
No PP is required if one is not using a dynaverse server.  There are merely a set of ships that one can utilize in the battles, perhaps based on a set of mission types or Strategic leader organized fleets.  I can understand people not using a PvP only dynaverse server, if there is nothing to do there, but if people go to a place expecting PvP, I think they will be willing to participate in a campaign if it's easy to do.


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