Topic: General Observation: The Z-MDC sucks!!

[FPF-DieHard]

What a piece of crap ship, no wonder the Kzinti regulars back in the day either flew the smaller (DF, DWD) or larger (CVS, CVA) ships for PvP.  I hope the Mirak moron who design this thing was served with peanut sauce in Thailand.

[Corbomite]

And this is the guy who keeps telling me ships need glaring, stupid design flaws to keep everything "balanced"?   

[FPF-DieHard]

And this is the guy who keeps telling me ships need glaring, stupid design flaws to keep everything "balanced"?   

Yes, this ship sucking ass makes up for the DWD and DF being the best ships in the D2 for what they do 

I can counter all of your logic with bullsh*t!

All jokes aside, most of the "design flaws" you see make sense when you look at the SSD on paper.   All modified ships have the same number of "Boxes."   I've made plenty of modifications to ships for "balance" purposes anyway.  You have any idea how bad I get flamed from the old school feds for "nerfing" the DNH?  (6 Drone control and removed an AMD12).

Still, some more tweaking of stuff is in order, mostly FYAs.   The F-DNL comes out WAY too early for example.   If I do another OP server I'm moving it's FYA to 2270 and moving the DN+ to when the DNL first comes out.

[Bonk]

Yeah, A-racks suck. The MDC+ is another story however.

[Soreyes]

Yep the MDC+ is a bit better. I just think that the Phasers can be tweaked a little bit.

Tactical: Sir K-D5L on the Starboard side
Soreyes: Fire spread of drones now
Tactical: Sir K-D5L has knocked down 3 drones with ADD, also took out 3 more with phasers and tractored the last one.
Soreyes: Ahh Heck! Turn away and maul it with our 2 phaser 1s   

[FPF-DieHard]

I flew the Z-MCC+ last night for most of the evening and I absolutely love it!  Even with the FA only disrupters (The CORRECT SFB firing arcs . . .) I was fine in the few PvP  scraps I was in and was still running decent mission times.   Plus war cruisers are just plain fun to fly.

War Cruiser Hell Part Deux will be coming soon to a D2 near your . . .

[marstone]

not much to do with the topic here but since it is being read.  What is the conversion of SFB years to SFC is it just add 2100 to the year?  I had something writen down on this before that I referenced but cant find it now.

[FPF-DieHard]

not much to do with the topic here but since it is being read.  What is the conversion of SFB years to SFC is it just add 2100 to the year?  I had something writen down on this before that I referenced but cant find it now.

2263 = Y163 more or less.   The Trek and SFB timelines sort add up, especially since 14 years take place between TMP and WoK.   The best point of reference is Gorn first contact.

[marstone]

not much to do with the topic here but since it is being read.  What is the conversion of SFB years to SFC is it just add 2100 to the year?  I had something writen down on this before that I referenced but cant find it now.

2263 = Y163 more or less.   The Trek and SFB timelines sort add up, especially since 14 years take place between TMP and WoK.   The best point of reference is Gorn first contact.

Okay, add 2100 to the SFB year.  thanks.

[Panzergranate]

Actually, SFC 1 Year 0 = SFB Y148.

Yep, Z-MDC suck so badly that our opponents, in our ongoing LAN camapign, have stopped using them..... well, we haven't messed up any for a long while.

But.... the Z-FF and Z-FH seriously suck big time.

Shame (or thank God) that SFC 2 EW doesn't have the dreaded Z-SSCS..... check out, on the SFB website, for an eyewitness account of what one sole Z-SSCS can do to six opposing large warships in a single turn..... the stuff of Klingon nightmares.

[FPF-DieHard]

Shame (or thank God) that SFC 2 EW doesn't have the dreaded Z-SSCS..... check out, on the SFB website, for an eyewitness account of what one sole Z-SSCS can do to six opposing large warships in a single turn..... the stuff of Klingon nightmares.

link please?

The SSCS and other REAL SCS ships can be soft of done in SFC.  It's simple, put the PFs on the Escorts!

[marstone]

The SSCS and other REAL SCS ships can be soft of done in SFC.  It's simple, put the PFs on the Escorts!

Well, that isn't really doing it, as if you fly alone there is no escorts.  I am hoping that in SFC4 we shall have fighers and PFs handled seperatly and you can make those ships.

[FPF-DieHard]

The SSCS and other REAL SCS ships can be soft of done in SFC.  It's simple, put the PFs on the Escorts!

Well, that isn't really doing it, as if you fly alone there is no escorts.  I am hoping that in SFC4 we shall have fighers and PFs handled seperatly and you can make those ships.

Yes, and it would be nice if fighter AI wasn't retarded either.   Though I think I FINALLY after 5 years figured out how to get drone fighters to work right since the last patch.

For my SCS/SSCS example would be for LAN/IP play possibly in a campaign setting.   About a 12-18 months ago Hexx and I were talking about possibly doing a server with full SFB compliment of fighters, one of the conditions of this is the carrier when fleeting would be forced to have at least one escort of the same race as well as enforcing some un-enforced fighter CnC (no more All-hellebore squads for the Hydrans, A10s only on the F-CVA, 50% Plasma F, etc . . .).   It never materialized other that some fun and very-cheesy BETA testing but it could work for that type of campaign.  Maybe a Fun server called "Carriers at War" could work.

I may do this as I came up with a whacky idea for giving the Plasma escorts some teeth do to the lack of offensive Plasma D . . . 
(This also means un-nerfing the G-Rack escort)

[marstone]

The SSCS and other REAL SCS ships can be soft of done in SFC.  It's simple, put the PFs on the Escorts!

Well, that isn't really doing it, as if you fly alone there is no escorts.  I am hoping that in SFC4 we shall have fighers and PFs handled seperatly and you can make those ships.

Yes, and it would be nice if fighter AI wasn't retarded either.   Though I think I FINALLY after 5 years figured out how to get drone fighters to work right since the last patch.

For my SCS/SSCS example would be for LAN/IP play possibly in a campaign setting.   About a 12-18 months ago Hexx and I were talking about possibly doing a server with full SFB compliment of fighters, one of the conditions of this is the carrier when fleeting would be forced to have at least one escort of the same race as well as enforcing some un-enforced fighter CnC (no more All-hellebore squads for the Hydrans, A10s only on the F-CVA, 50% Plasma F, etc . . .).   It never materialized other that some fun and very-cheesy BETA testing but it could work for that type of campaign.  Maybe a Fun server called "Carriers at War" could work.

I may do this as I came up with a whacky idea for giving the Plasma escorts some teeth do to the lack of offensive Plasma D . . . 
(This also means un-nerfing the G-Rack escort)

YOu know it is sad I keep thinking on the same lines as you. (something is wrong with that).  Was looking at doing a shiplist with assigned fighters based on year and ship (same as the charts in SFB), fly the fighters your ship carries and just replace as needed (could buy the newer versions when they come out tho).

[el-Karnak]

Do you think Mog's M-BCH is any good? 

I kind of liked it, but then I kept flying it like a Klingon which was not very helpful to me in-game. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Do you think Mog's M-BCH is any good? 

I kind of liked it, but then I kept flying it like a Klingon which was not very helpful to me in-game. 

It was too good.   Seriously, it was EASY to make C7's look stupid in that ship on GW1.  I left it in GW3 on the condition that it couldn't be upgraded to a BCV.

The Kzin BCH in SFB is a conversion for the CV hull, not a new design.  In a campaign game with real OOB this actually gives them an advantage as ALL THEIR CVSs CAN BE CONVERTED TO BCVs!  No other race can do this.  IMHO it's a little under-powered, maybe give it a 1-2 point bump to play nice with it's racial advisories.

Some races BCH's are dogs (Kzinti and Gorn), some races never actually built a BCH (Romulan, the KCR is a conjectural conversion of a C7).  In SFB they didn't need them.  Why?  X-ships.  Not the Taldren garbage, the X1 ships from SFB which are converted as close as possible in the SGO mod.  You don't need a KCR when you have an FHX, same goes for the Mirak CCX more than making up for their BCH being a slow ship.  You could only build one BCH hull a year, after 2280 so it made sense to build them as carriers/BCSs.  They were replacing the CVAs and the CX ships were replacing the DNs as the Empires were getting close to bankruptcy towards the end of the war. 

[Age]

I don't know but for a mid era ship with medium drones being 7 Type A Drone Racks isn't that it could hold it own vs a K-D6D and some Lyran CAs.There are better ships than it but it depends on what you are willing to pay or what is assigned to you.It could be that saome are just bad at Flying it.

I don't know whay most like Flying the big Boats.

[Panzergranate]

If a Z-SSCS launches all its PF and fighters, and then has them fire their Drones at the same time as the Z-SSCS, more than 50 Drones can be launched at some poor bastard enemy.... which apparently happened in a convention game, acording to the SFB website. The game lasteted one turn.

We do have the Z-SSCS in our SFC 1 LAN campaigns, though the game battles always have to start with the fighters and PFs already deployed, which was / is common in SFB games to save time.

It's kind of convenient that SFC 1 allows and recognises the Mirak (Kzinti) as an "offical" player race when tacked into the SFBSPC13.TXT Shiplist file. Alas they're only recognised in FMSE as legitimate player sides.

[FPF-DieHard]

If a Z-SSCS launches all its PF and fighters, and then has them fire their Drones at the same time as the Z-SSCS, more than 50 Drones can be launched at some poor bastard enemy.... which apparently happened in a convention game, acording to the SFB website. The game lasteted one turn.

We do have the Z-SSCS in our SFC 1 LAN campaigns, though the game battles always have to start with the fighters and PFs already deployed, which was / is common in SFB games to save time.

It's kind of convenient that SFC 1 allows and recognises the Mirak (Kzinti) as an "offical" player race when tacked into the SFBSPC13.TXT Shiplist file. Alas they're only recognised in FMSE as legitimate player sides.

If he flew right into 50 drones then he's a moron, natural selection at its finest.

In SFC, fighters and PFs are so stupid that even the meanest ones are easy to kill.   A few days ago I chased off a D6U in a Z-MCC+, it wasn't even difficult.  This would have been IMPOSSIBLE in SFB.  Just giving them Chaff would greatly increase their combat effectiveness so a carrier may actually be worth it's EP value in a strategic game. 

Imagine 8 Stinger 2m fighters flying at you at speed 29 running ERATIC MANEUVERS to avoid your AMD, dropping Chaff whenever you fired drones at them, and HETing away to avoid in-coming seeking weapons.  scary stuff, but such a potential for more fun developing tactics and counter tactics.

The Heavy DNs in SFC are better than the CVAs (most races, PvP . . .) whereas in F&E CVAs cost way more to build.  By comparision and F-DNH costs 18 EP to build, and F-BCV costs 28 (12 for the ship, 16 for the F14s)!  Which one would you rather have?  Then again the fighters were much more effective in SFB, plus replacement fighters were free.

[Panzergranate]

Apparently there were 6 opposing players all cnfident that they could take out a single, lone, Kzinti warship pretty easily....

Nah.... a moron launches fighters whilst in (A) a star's radiation zone, (B) in a dust cloud or (C) just before a gravity wave is about to hit....

[FPF-DieHard]

Apparently there were 6 opposing players all cnfident that they could take out a single, lone, Kzinti warship pretty easily....

Nah.... a moron launches fighters whilst in (A) a star's radiation zone, (B) in a dust cloud or (C) just before a gravity wave is about to hit....

Play Kzinti on the ISC invasion game I'm proposing.   It might be possible to do a Z-SSCS with the right fleeting rules.  Pretty much, Z-SSCS will have the fighters, two MACs will escort it with a PF squad each.   Yeah, you couldn't do inter-racial co-op but it might be fun just to see what happens when that many drones fire at once in this game 

[Panzergranate]

The game will slow up with all those Drones up....

The Z-MDC do have one or two uses.... like mullahing freighters, bases, ground defences, etc. or any other role where dumping on an easy target is required.

I added in some of the newer Kzinti ships into SFC 1 here, mainly the "Austerity" units, such as the light frigate Z-LFF, which is a shortened hull Z-FF with Needle PF engines built at the closing stages of the General War. Has a better turning mode than a Z-FF.

Also the light destroyer Z-LDD which is an austerity warship built in the Z-FF hull and used to make up numbers towards the end of the General War. It has a better turning mode than the Z-DD.

In a campaign they make for cheaper units and have their uses patroling rear and fringe areas or making up numbers when budgets are tight.

3 x Z-LFF = 2 x Z-FF and 3 x Z-LDD = 2 x Z-DD....

There is also a Z-SCA slow crusier, which is another Kzinti austerity built warship. It is basically a Z-CA powered by Z-DD engines with a few internal rearranging and weapons upgrades to compensate for the lack of speed, which is speed 22.

They seem to work out OK in our LAN campaign, however they are austerity warships meant as a sustitute for normal warships.