Topic: Love to the California Supreme Court...  (Read 6183 times)

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Offline TheJudge

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Love to the California Supreme Court...
« on: May 15, 2008, 12:29:34 pm »
Since this isn't hot and spicy, I will limit myself to saying I love the California Supreme Court.  I've only perused their decision on same-sex marriage, but so far it makes for some interesting reading.  Even the majority of the dissenters are pro-gay marriage if not supporting the majority decision.  It's going to make for a VERY interesting November here, in a state where the State Legislature has twice passed a bill to legalize same-sex marriage only to vetoed by the Governor, who based his veto primarily upon Prop 22, which has now been overturned.

If we can defeat the initiative on the ballot for November, well I'll predict the issue permanently settled by the early part of next year.

The biggest question for me is whether I'll be inviting everyone to my wedding on July 2, 2008 or July 2, 2009.  :)


EDIT:  MY MISTAKE.  The Supreme Court did NOT remand the matter to the State Legislature.  They struck the ban on same-sex marriage and stated the rest of Prop 22 applies to same sex as well as opposite sex couples.  The wedding's on for July 2, 2008. 

It's almost tempting to go out and get the marriage license today.
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Offline TheJudge

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008, 01:15:20 pm »
You are invited to the wedding of Robert Jordan & Daniel Kirk

When:  Wednesday July 2nd, 2008 @ 7:00 p.m.

Location:  Sacramento, CA (Exact location to be determined shortly)

We've got some progress.  Our officiator will be either Senator (Ret)  Art Torres, current Chair of the California Democratic Party or Assemblymember John Laird.  Right now we're trying to figure out where in Sacramento we want to hold the ceremony.  Because of Robert's position we may have a few hundred people attending so it has to be somewhere large enough, and it's at 7:00 p.m. so most of our friends and coworkers can attend.  Maybe it will be at the State Capitol. 
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Offline GE-Raven

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2008, 01:29:50 pm »
I wish you the best in your new life together!  I must it admit it must be kinda nice to not have to field the annoying "so when are you two having kids" questions that started immediately after the wedding for Jen and I.  Thanks for the add on PS3 we will have to find a common game for you to kick my ass in (Unless it is Hot Shots Golf:OoB, then I will whoop ya).

If it were anywhere close I might have a shot of making it (as a musician I have made a few marriages or unions of my gay friends).  However Jen and I are going to Germany and Czech Republic in June, and of course July 4th is our little girls 2nd birthday.

God Bless!

GE-Raven

Offline marstone

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2008, 04:46:47 pm »
Well, congrats, and wish you two a long and happy life togeather.
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Offline TheJudge

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2008, 05:43:48 pm »
Raven, I hope your wife and you have a good, fun time in Europe.  :)  Unfortunately the questions are already being asked about when we're going to adopt kids, or if we're going to get a surrogate mother...so not even gay couples can get away from the children question anymore!

It looks like we've found a location.  My fiance's boss (the Executive Director for the CDP) has a VERY nice house here in Phoenix that can handle the size of the crowd we're going to invite, so we'll have an outdoor wedding there, next to her duck pond.  We decided that we'll send out a few hundred invitations to all the electeds just so they don't get miffed they weren't invited, and it sounds like at least one of the Pelosi's will be there (yay!), but we doubt most of the electeds will actually show up.  The problem is more than a few of them said they'd show up when we got married so we're hoping they back down or the catering bill is going to be horrendous. 

We promised not to say they broke promises by not showing up...

Oh, and the media is NOT invited.  One of my man's coworkers wanted to hold a press conference at the party's office announcing our wedding plans - I thought he was joking but he was completely serious in doing it as a human interest story.  Fortunately we both said NO right away, although the guy might be sneaky and give the media our phone numbers *sigh*.  He's been getting calls all day from folks in the media who are asking if he knows of any good personal interest angle stories behind this...

We've already started sending preliminary invitations by e-mail to people (about a hundred and counting so far).  Hopefully no one sends it to the media...we'll see though.  :)
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2008, 06:12:22 pm »
Dan I've been waiting for this invite for so long now, you can bet I'm going to try and make it out there. If nothing else, I should be able to catch a bus there.

Couldn't be happier for ya man, Take care.

Stephen
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2008, 08:22:26 pm »
The biggest question for me is whether I'll be inviting everyone to my wedding on July 2, 2008 or July 2, 2009.  :)

 :thumbsup:
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Offline Centurus

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2008, 09:27:57 pm »
If I had gas, and an available driver's seat in my truck, and a suit to wear, I'd attend your wedding.  That is if the invitation also extends to me.   ;D

But congrats on this event!!! 
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Offline Soreyes

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2008, 02:53:48 am »
Judge I have stated that I don't agree with you about 98% of the time. But on this I have to say Congrats and have a Happy Life together.

Now for the Big Question. You know your going to go Broke putting on this wedding  ;)   Just the Catering bill is going to make you go NUTS!! ;D


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Offline TheJudge

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2008, 12:44:01 pm »
Thanks, everyone, and yes Centaurus, if you're in the neighborhood you're invited.  :)

As for the catering bill, well we've decided that due to the late hour (7 p.m. wedding, 8 p.m. reception) we'll have hou'r'dourves and finger food type stuff which will help.  Still, did you know that California now has its own economic stimulus plan?  This is why Arnold is telling all the gays to go get married...he wants us to boost the economy in the service sectors!


Edit:  Oh, and Stephen, my friend, if you can make it out here, don't worry about a place to stay.  We have an extra bedroom, although I'm going to warn you the kids' bunkbed is the only bed in there.  :)
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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2008, 12:47:00 pm »
Well it appears the fat lady has sung. ;). And I hope it stops the bickering over this.

 Good luck Judge. :)

Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2008, 02:24:10 pm »
Wow, looks like one of them traditional marriages, except you being gay and all =)

So much politics, it's almost like you're getting married in the south or something.

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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2008, 02:47:14 pm »
Thanks, everyone, and yes Centaurus, if you're in the neighborhood you're invited.  :)

As for the catering bill, well we've decided that due to the late hour (7 p.m. wedding, 8 p.m. reception) we'll have hou'r'dourves and finger food type stuff which will help.  Still, did you know that California now has its own economic stimulus plan?  This is why Arnold is telling all the gays to go get married...he wants us to boost the economy in the service sectors!


Edit:  Oh, and Stephen, my friend, if you can make it out here, don't worry about a place to stay.  We have an extra bedroom, although I'm going to warn you the kids' bunkbed is the only bed in there.  :)

Man that is great. I'll take you up on the offer. Let me see what I can do.

Stephen
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Offline Centurus

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2008, 10:44:09 pm »
Well it appears the fat lady has sung. ;). And I hope it stops the bickering over this.

 Good luck Judge. :)

Hey hey hey, I'm no lady alright.  Although I have been told I could fill out a 40DD bra nicely.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2008, 01:46:48 am »
First I want to say Congrats Judge.. I wish you the best.

I do want to point out that I read the judgment of the Supreme Court of California.

They stated that there was no Constitutional reason that Same-Sex marriage could not take place.. However, at the end on the decree, the Supreme court left it open for Public Voting.

Which means depending on how legislation goes.. You may be in rough waters again..

Here is the last paragraph of the Supreme Courts decision..

Quote
We should allow the significant achievements embodied in the domestic partnership statutes to continue to take root.  If there is to be a new understanding of the meaning of marriage in California, it should develop among the people of our state and find its expression at the ballot box.

                        CORRIGAN, J.


I do wish you the best.. but be prepared for more resistance in the future.. If legislation does put the Definition of Marriage up for public vote.. it could go the way Proposition 22 did, with a 2/3 vote of the state against Same-Sex being a "Married Couple" instead of a legalized "Domestic Partnership".
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Offline TheJudge

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2008, 12:00:37 pm »
Pestalence,

Couple things real quick.  First, regarding legislation, California is way ahead of the supreme court of the state.  Twice now the state legislature has passed a bill granting same-sex marriage as part of the statutes of the state.  Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger vetoed it, both times referencing this court case and the potential resolution by the courts as being 'preferable'.  (On a side note, he's already stated 'it's done', that he will support and enforce the court decision and that he opposes the November ballot issue). 

The biggest danger we face is a November ballot proposition currently being reviewed by the Secretary of State office.  It will define marriage as between one man and one woman in the state constitution (something Proposition 22 didn't do - putting it in the state constitution).  Now, before the supreme court ruling, polling put the proposition behind 42 oppose to 41 support (in California, 90% of the time a proposition begins with more oppose than support, it fails).  Unscientific polling by media outlets since the ruling are coming up with surprisingly consistent numbers.  (given that both sides are freeping these polls).

The most common results are 42-43 % support for gay marriage, 12-17% support for 'civil unions' only, and 41% oppose gay marriage period.  With the ballot initiative coming up in November, it's going to be a fight, but 95% of elected state democratic representatives have voted for gay marriage bills in the last three years.  The Governor has publicly opposed the anti-gay marriage ballot initiative, and the Democratic Party has put support for gay marriage into its party platform for 2008, which means the party itself will be spending a few hundred thousand opposing the ballot intiative.  If we can keep our current margins, and get 60% of those that support civil unions to vote "NO" on the ballot iniative, we will win.

Also in our favor is that voting "YES" on the iniative will take something away from people that they have already, and makes our argument stronger to oppose the initiative.
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Offline Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2008, 12:01:34 pm »
Well, as you know I dont agree with "gay" marriage, but Im big enough person to be able to sincerely wish you good luck. So. Good luck, Judge.




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Offline TheJudge

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2008, 10:49:39 am »
Shadows,

I thank you for your wishes of good luck.  Your message is one of the reasons why I have been a part of this community for all these years.  Most of the time, we here see past our differences and truly wish each other the best.  We can ask for nothing better.  Thank you.

Now for the better news...in a way.  There is no way in hell we're going to be able to pull this wedding off in the next six weeks.  You may have noticed it is an election year and both of us are so darn busy we haven't been able to spend more than ten minutes doing planning since last week.  We need to be further along, and we're not going to be with the upcoming schedule over the next few months.  We have an election on June 3rd and my clients are getting frantic.  The week after that we have a meeting to attend in Dallas, Texas.  After that he has to go to Denver for a pre-convention review of the hotel the California Delegation will be staying at in August.  In the end, we've decided to postpone this for a bit. 

We really like the July 2nd date.  It is the date that we've used as our anniversary because it is the date we 'moved in' together.  We want to keep it, so we've postponed the wedding until July 2nd, 2009.  Yes, I know there is a ballot measure on the November ballot that could take this away from us, but I have faith in the people of California (and I've gotten to see some early poll numbers that are VERY much in our favor). 

Thanks everyone!
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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2008, 06:02:21 pm »
Well, as you know I dont agree with "gay" marriage, but Im big enough person to be able to sincerely wish you good luck. So. Good luck, Judge.

 You are a fine Southern Man of integrity Will. :) Judge is right, its times like this that make me proud to be a member here.

Offline AcePylut

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2008, 11:34:57 pm »
TJ, I hope you know that marriage is just really an excuse to go on a honeymoon  :)


Kidding aside... good luck with your marriage, I wish you well!
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Offline Centurus

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2008, 06:49:00 am »
I shall impart some wisdom bestowed upon me by my Political Science professor.

First, he loves to tell the following joke:

"One day there's this man that goes to this witch doctor and begs him for help.  He tells the witch doctor that he's had this curse on him that's been slowly killing him for 15 years.  The witch doctor says that he might be able to help him, but he needs to know the exact words of the curse when it was originally cast.  The man tells the witch doctor that the original words to the curse were: Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife?"

But, my professor loves to remind me of the following:  Marriage is grand, divorce is a hundred grand.

However, as I pointed out to him, there is a reason why divorce is so expensive.  Because it's worth it.
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Offline Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2008, 12:04:59 pm »
Shadows,

I thank you for your wishes of good luck.  Your message is one of the reasons why I have been a part of this community for all these years.  Most of the time, we here see past our differences and truly wish each other the best.  We can ask for nothing better.  Thank you.


You are a fine Southern Man of integrity Will. :) Judge is right, its times like this that make me proud to be a member here.

Judge, you and I may not see eye to eye on alot of things, but we have known each other for a long time. Its always good to see both sides of any issue, even if you dont agree. Youre right, we can ask for nothing better. Youre very welcome.

I think the same about you, Mike. I can respect most people's positions on here because they come from an honest belief. You may not agree with their positions, but you have to respect them.




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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2008, 01:27:56 pm »
Shadows,

I thank you for your wishes of good luck.  Your message is one of the reasons why I have been a part of this community for all these years.  Most of the time, we here see past our differences and truly wish each other the best.  We can ask for nothing better.  Thank you.


You are a fine Southern Man of integrity Will. :) Judge is right, its times like this that make me proud to be a member here.

Judge, you and I may not see eye to eye on alot of things, but we have known each other for a long time. Its always good to see both sides of any issue, even if you dont agree. Youre right, we can ask for nothing better. Youre very welcome.

I think the same about you, Mike. I can respect most people's positions on here because they come from an honest belief. You may not agree with their positions, but you have to respect them.


 I'm not trying to wave a flag here. But thats what makes this Country Great. And some thing other Country's will never achieve.
 The civility, to accept other peoples beliefs. Religious or other wise.

Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2008, 09:01:02 pm »
Shadows,

I thank you for your wishes of good luck.  Your message is one of the reasons why I have been a part of this community for all these years.  Most of the time, we here see past our differences and truly wish each other the best.  We can ask for nothing better.  Thank you.


You are a fine Southern Man of integrity Will. :) Judge is right, its times like this that make me proud to be a member here.

Judge, you and I may not see eye to eye on alot of things, but we have known each other for a long time. Its always good to see both sides of any issue, even if you dont agree. Youre right, we can ask for nothing better. Youre very welcome.

I think the same about you, Mike. I can respect most people's positions on here because they come from an honest belief. You may not agree with their positions, but you have to respect them.


That is classy no matter how you look at it.

I tip my hat to you sir.

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Offline TheJudge

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2008, 01:15:17 am »
Okay, deep breath now that the June 2008 primary election is out of the way. It's time to look forward to the November 2008 election. With the California Supreme Court decision in place and getting ready to go in effect within two weeks, a ballot initiative has qualified to change the California Constitution in order to expressly limit marriage to being 'between one man and one woman'. The Field Poll organization finished a poll shortly after the Supreme Court decision, and the results surprised even me. 

http://www.field.com/fieldpollonline/subscribers/Rls2268.pdf  - This is a link directly to the field poll results.  It makes for some fascinating reading.  Bottom line(s) indicate that the ballot initiative against gay marriage has some serious problems.  In California, the general rule is that if an intiative has less support than opposition at the beginning they have a tough battle to win approval.  Where a ballot initiative has greater than 50% opposition, the chances of it passing are slightly more than a snowball's chance of surviving entry into hell.

(Field Poll is one of the most reliable polls in California politics)

Their question was:

Quote
“Do you favor or oppose changing the California State Constitution to define marriage as
between a man and a woman, thus barring marriage between gay and lesbian couples?”
(among California registered voters)


Results:


Favor  40%  Oppose  54%  No Opinion:  6%

Those are some pretty solid numbers.  (They also show 51% of registered voters favoring marriage laws applying equally to same-sex couples).  As you might expect, firm opposition comes from Republican and self-identified Christian voters.  What I didn't expect was that Non-Partisan voters support the Supreme Court Decision by 4 points more than Democratic voters.  More figures show that Gay Marriage enjoys more than 50% support among people ages 18-49.  Not until ages 50-64 does it drop below 50%, and then only to 47%.  The largest opposition group comes from those 65 or older, who are the most consistent voters.

That right there would normally give me some considerable cause for concern in an election cycle, if not for one thing:  Barack Obama is going to be the Democratic Nominee for President.  Senator Obama consistently turns out voters in the 18-49 age group in record high numbers.  Those voters turned out in February for him, and in California can be expected to turn out in huge numbers for the General Election.  They are also largely opposed to the anti-gay marriage ballot initiative and can be reasonably expected to vote no when they get turned out by the Obama campaign and the California Democratic Party (incidently, the CDP has already endorsed gay marriage in their Platform for 2008  - which yours truly helped write and will be taking a position on the ballot initiative at their June E-board meeting in San Francisco). 

At the same time, John McCain's support in California is anemic at best.  With an enganged Democratic turnout and a disengaged Republican turnout, this ballot intitiative could very well go down in flames.  I'm optimistic we can end up with a spread like:  Yes:  44%  No: 56%

I've not always been the biggest fan of gay marriage, and I've not been a fan of winning gay marriage through the court systems, but the Perfect Storm brewing here in California is more than enough to satisfy me.  As is too often the case, the first battles have to be won in the court system, but I believe in order to achieve true victory, the war must be won at the ballot box.

In 5 months, when the People speak, the war here in California might well and truly be won . 
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2008, 02:13:12 pm »
WOW...you're getting married...in less then a month.  Haven't you learned anything about the horrors of marriage?  It's all fun and games until the wedding day...

Of course this comes from a single guy.

In reality, good luck, and if you really want to get married I suppose it's better to get married sooner, than take chances on what will happen later.
Pestalence,

Couple things real quick. First, regarding legislation, California is way ahead of the supreme court of the state. Twice now the state legislature has passed a bill granting same-sex marriage as part of the statutes of the state. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger vetoed it, both times referencing this court case and the potential resolution by the courts as being 'preferable'. (On a side note, he's already stated 'it's done', that he will support and enforce the court decision and that he opposes the November ballot issue).

The biggest danger we face is a November ballot proposition currently being reviewed by the Secretary of State office. It will define marriage as between one man and one woman in the state constitution (something Proposition 22 didn't do - putting it in the state constitution). Now, before the supreme court ruling, polling put the proposition behind 42 oppose to 41 support (in California, 90% of the time a proposition begins with more oppose than support, it fails). Unscientific polling by media outlets since the ruling are coming up with surprisingly consistent numbers. (given that both sides are freeping these polls).

The most common results are 42-43 % support for gay marriage, 12-17% support for 'civil unions' only, and 41% oppose gay marriage period. With the ballot initiative coming up in November, it's going to be a fight, but 95% of elected state democratic representatives have voted for gay marriage bills in the last three years. The Governor has publicly opposed the anti-gay marriage ballot initiative, and the Democratic Party has put support for gay marriage into its party platform for 2008, which means the party itself will be spending a few hundred thousand opposing the ballot intiative. If we can keep our current margins, and get 60% of those that support civil unions to vote "NO" on the ballot iniative, we will win.

Also in our favor is that voting "YES" on the iniative will take something away from people that they have already, and makes our argument stronger to oppose the initiative.

Since we are now discussing some Politics in this thing anyways...I know this isn't Hot and Spicy, but I see laws phrased that way not just targeted at Gays, but also others beyond those who have Homosexual preferences, such as those at that Locale in Texas.  In a way it's phrased NOT only to target those who have different sexual preferences, but also those who have different marriage preferences due to religion (hence treading that line of freedom of Religion)., inclusive of those FLDS, as well as certain Hindu sects(who I believe typically follow US law anyways, but what about the guy that immigrates from India and already has more than one wife), and some Arab Muslims (not necessarily Muslims, because I see the polygamy in Islam as more of something allowed, but normally pursued by Arab and North African Descent).


I won't pursue much more discussion on it since this is Ten Forward, and everything is much more relaxed in discussions here, but it is interesting with the implications and effects it will have with that specific wording (ONE man and ONE woman) regardless of one's opinion of Gay Marriage, and into the religious realm.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2008, 02:36:16 pm »
Good luck, Judge.  I wish you as much happiness as can be had.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
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Offline TheJudge

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2008, 03:16:37 pm »
Actually, the wedding date is being moved to July 2nd, 2009.  We just don't have the time due to DNC Convention in August and special projects coming up between now and then. 
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Offline marstone

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2008, 12:09:02 am »
Actually, the wedding date is being moved to July 2nd, 2009.  We just don't have the time due to DNC Convention in August and special projects coming up between now and then. 

Well, just put it in the schedule of the convention.  If nothing else, the food would already probably be catered in so would cut the costs.
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Offline Centurus

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2008, 02:45:55 am »
He's got a point there Judge.  Saving money is always good.
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Offline TheJudge

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2008, 02:50:25 am »
Yeah, well July 2nd is our date so we're sticking with it.  Just spent the weekend in Dallas with a bunch from the Gay Author's website.  Had a lot of fun, especially at the Alamo ticket counter where the word 'husband' was used when Alamo wanted to charge us an extra $10 per day for the addition 'unrelated' driver.  When the phone call was being placed to Alamo Headquarters (CDP/DNC contract with them), the charge disappeared all of a sudden.

:)

Then there was the kiss in the middle of the Six Flags over Texas theme park.  Was quite unplanned really. He was going back to the hotel room, leaving me with all the 18-21 year old boys in our group and wanted to remind them that I was taken.  Totally forgot we weren't in California where people barely blinik an eye at two guys kissing...

It was a fun weekend, overall.  We've even got pictures if I can find that site again.   :laugh:


http://unyhosting.com/dallas2008/dallas2008.html  (Just a reminder...my first name is Dan).  The restaurant was Trail Dust in Arlington, just a short drive away from Six Flags.


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Offline marstone

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2008, 05:17:24 am »
Then there was the kiss in the middle of the Six Flags over Texas theme park.  Was quite unplanned really. He was going back to the hotel room, leaving me with all the 18-21 year old boys in our group and wanted to remind them that I was taken.  Totally forgot we weren't in California where people barely blinik an eye at two guys kissing...

 :laugh:  yeah, you would get some interesting stares in my neck of the woods also. :o
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Offline Centurus

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Re: Love to the California Supreme Court...
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2008, 06:09:17 am »
Over in my neck of the woods, which is south of you Judge (in the same state), depending on what parts of the woods, you'd either get my family being shocked and a whole bunch of other stuff, or you'd be hearing whistles and cat calls and suggestions of getting a room from some of my buddies from my theater days.

Either way, as long as ya keep it PG-13, it's all good.
The pen is truly mightier than the sword.  And considerably easier to write with.