Topic: Klingon Academy and Windows Vista...

[Czar Mohab]

Before anyone asks, yeah, I searched for this. I've muddled through forums and posts and crap and other stuff. I have not found, however, the answer, so it is to you that I turn the question over to. You the experts. You the masters of the bit. You the... well, enough sucking up.

The Question: Why does my version of Vista not like Klingon Academy?

Windows Vista is a huge enigma to me. Its pretty, that is for sure. But that is about it as far as things in the "good" column. But, through experience, I have noted that a lot of "does not work with Vista" programs, games, etc. work perfectly fine, with little or no manipulation of the compatibility settings. This is where some things get confusing for me. I installed Works 98, and, well, it works. No issues (Thankfully so, 'cause there's not much support). Acer installed some "new computer" programs, fresh out of the box, designed for Vista, and... one of them doesn't work. Installed a patch for RT3, big bold type, "Does not work with Vista"... works fine. IE7, on the other hand... don't get me started. You should be beginning to see where I am coming from with this, Vista doesn't seem to play well with itself. Or so I thought.

I'm a huge fan of the older, 1996-2002ish games. The Fallout series, SFC (obviously) SFA, Sim City 2000, C&C Series, Freelancer, etc, etc, etc. Every game that I had on my XP machine I either reinstalled or copied over to this Vista laptop, and with only one huge glaring blemish, all have performed at or better than expected. And even the "blemish" is only a half truth. You see, Klingon Academy, even with every possible compatibility setting Vista offers, and some that Vista doesn't, does not work for me with Vista. The ol' XP box and KA get along wonderfully.

Its not that KA doesn't play at all, in fact, I could start it up right now and get into a simulator game or mission or whatever, and everything is fine until:
1.) Any ship fires a weapon. Certain compatibility modes caused crash. Others, nothing happened out of the ordinary. Sometimes, just crashes randomly when the weapons hit, however, I think this is part of those certain modes.

2.) Player ship moves. Up, down, left, right, forwards, backwards, in system warp, whatever. You move, and you get "space lightning" for lack of a better term. This happens on all comp. modes, and is really and truly what I am trying to solve, since it is the most annoying. Basically, space flickers white to black to white to... it doesn't affect the UI, and going to a station (say, helm) is not affected at all.

What little I have found suggests that it isn't so much Vista as it is the Vid card. ATI Radeon Express 1100 with 256 MB of (unfortunately) shared RAM (Leaving the system with the other 3/4 of 1 GB!). But everything is up to date on this beasty. The XP rig runs an ATI Radeon All in Wonder something or other with 256 MB of vid RAM.

There are other issues it could be, too. I'm by no means rich, so the capital to fund a RAM upgrade is short, at best, so hopefully lack of RAM isn't the biggest issue. Eventually, upgrading to the compy's max RAM capacity of 4GB is planned, and at ~$2 a month, I'll get there.

There's also the processor, AMD Turion 64 Mobile Technology Mk. 38 2.20 GHz. It sounds impressive, from a win 98 366MHz P2 (What i started with, and when KA was first played by me) PoV, but referring back to the XP box, she's running the 2.4 GHz P4 that was taken from my old, smashed, dog urinated on, cat puked on, laptop. That laptop, too, had no issues with KA. It had issues with almost everything else, but that is another story for another day.

Could it be that I'm running a 32 bit OS? Possibly, but I though that KA was designed for a 32 bit OS... Someone, I'm sure, will let me know.

Could it be my "Windows Experience Rating"? A measly 3.1! (up from 3.0 out of the box ) Not likely, as I know full well KA's minimum and recommended requirements are vastly exceeded on this lappy, and the XP box.

I haven't added anything hardware wise to this compy. It is an Acer Aspire 5100-3357 (which conflicts all over the 'net with what I actually have... the compy says I have the mk 38 CPU while Acer says the '3357 has the mk. 36, as one example...) with Vista Home Premium. I said that just so if I missed a system spec that you need/want, you could find it.

~Czar "I hate Vista... I hate Cheapy Vid cards... But I'm a tightwad, so I gets what I pays for." Mohab, who notes Vista was free with the purchase of the lappy. I am that cheap.

[Sirgod]

Muhab 32 bit should be fine, and I have ran it on XP with an ATI Radeon 1600X pro, so the card should not be an issue.

anyway, you can do a dual boot to xp on your laptop?

I have a copy of Vista my son gave me last month, but I have been hesitant to install it.

Stephen

[Czar Mohab]

In theory i could DB with XP, but I don't have any major issues with Vista (other than KA) that would deem it necessary.

From experience, and reading stuff, and listening to people, It seems like Windows Vista is very unique to each user. I might share one problem with 20 people, and another with a different 20, but those 40 won't share both problems.

Czar "Still tinkering" Mohab, who would only recommend Vista when most of the bugs are eliminated. Unless you like windows all pretty, and flowery.

[Sirgod]

Heh, I have XP doing that. Just do a XP to Vista theme search, and you get everything. Gadgets, Aero, etc.

I could try it out maybe on the sis in laws machine. I know she has Vista on it.

Stephen

[Pestalence_XC]

The problem is your system memory AND your video card.

Vista needs 1 Gb to operate correctly and will leave you about 300 Mb memory for running programs.. now take your Vid card.. it will take about half of that 300 MB to utilize for games, plus the Graphic Processor is going to steal CPU clock cycles to render the game.

You need to get a Vid Card, preferably NVidia (Radeons have trouble with Vista with drivers and games / software) ATI/AMD (same company) does not support older hardware and their drivers are quite buggy (Trust me.. My current system is running a Radeon X1300 All-In-Wonder 2006 with 512 MB memory.. Vista only recognizes 256 Vid memory because of AMD's Drivers, and the TV Tuner is not supported by AMD on a Vista system, and the card is barely over a year old.. that is AMD support for you) I have to find work arounds just to get the crappy and fuzzy TV Tuner in this card to work.. that only took about 3 weeks. All my games have to run on Med low settings or just plain Low settings.. Radeon sucks for Vista.. at least the product I have does.. No AMD support except faulty drivers (as usual AMD), half Vid memory recognized, and TV Tuner not supported at all by AMD and AMD's refusal to support the card, at least on Vista systems.. and the card is only 1 year and 3 months old.. Bought Dec 2006..

My new system is going to be 100% Vista compliant.. see my thread on Finalizing my System Build..

GeForce 8800 GTX OC2 756Mb gDDR3 memory.. the best card on the market, next to the water cooled Ultra (only 6% difference in performance on 2 tests.. all other tests the OC2 I have is faster)

I will have no Vid memory problems.. No GPU problems, and unlike AMD/ATI Radeon, the GeForce has built in Physics engine and real support.. even the older cards are supported if installed on Vista.. all the way back to the 6600 series, only the 8600 and newer cards are DirectX 10 compliant)..

in the affordable range, an NVidia GeForce 8800 GTS with 512 MB memory would do wonders.. it too has built in Physics engine

As for system memory, I have 4 GB on Vista Home Premium 32 bit.. It is not recommended to game with Vista if your system memory is less than 2 GB.. that is about 700 MB for system to operate (loads 700 MB, utilizes 300 MB) and 1.3Gb to operate programs.. Also using the Vista Ready Boost for your Virtual Drive (at least a 2 Gb USB Memory Stick ..$14.99 for Sandisk at Wal-Mart .. in the Photo Clearance section) will improve your stability and memory usage with your low ram ammount for the time being, but it will not help your games, but it will lower your hard disk access quite a bit (read /write virtual memory).

Honestly, and my AMD rant asside, You should have at least 2 Gb system memory when running Vista, and put in a real vid card that does not use shared memory.. and with todays games.. the vid card should have a minimum of 512 Mb on board.

[Pestalence_XC]

Heh, I have XP doing that. Just do a XP to Vista theme search, and you get everything. Gadgets, Aero, etc.

I could try it out maybe on the sis in laws machine. I know she has Vista on it.

Stephen

But you will never get to experience gaming on DirectX 10.. even the port over to XP of DirectX 10 does not work correctly.. anyhow.. We Vista users are brave enough to venture forth and figure out how to get older software working.. sort of like being a starship captain.. to boldly go where no one  (or software) has gone before.

[Sirgod]

Heh, I have XP doing that. Just do a XP to Vista theme search, and you get everything. Gadgets, Aero, etc.

I could try it out maybe on the sis in laws machine. I know she has Vista on it.

Stephen

But you will never get to experience gaming on DirectX 10.. even the port over to XP of DirectX 10 does not work correctly.. anyhow.. We Vista users are brave enough to venture forth and figure out how to get older software working.. sort of like being a starship captain.. to boldly go where no one  (or software) has gone before.

True, but what games are there, ShadowRun and uhm... I know theres others that are DX10 only.

Besides most of them are FPS, I still have some old FPS games that work just fine for me. Eventually, I'll cross over, when I am absolutly forced too.  Untill then, I'll consider a dual boot, but that's about it.

Stephen

[Pestalence_XC]

What games?

Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures

Alan Wake

Assassin's Creed (PC)

BioShock

Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway

Call of Juarez

Chrome 2

Company of Heroes with 1.7 patch

Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts

Crysis

Dragon Age

EVE Online with patch Q2 2008

Far Cry 2

Fallout 3

Flight Simulator X: Acceleration

Flight Simulator X: Adrenaline

FPS Creator X10

Half-Life 2: Episode Two

Half-Life 2: Episode Three

Gears of War - No actual DX10 features, only difference is Anti-Aliasing is enabled.

Guild Wars 2

Hellgate: London

Lord Of The Rings Online: Shadows Of Angmar 

Lost Planet: Extreme Condition

Portal

PT Boats: Knights of the sea

Splinter Cell: Conviction

Starcraft II

Stargate Worlds

Team Fortress 2

THEY

Universe at War: Earth Assault

Unreal Tournament 3

Warhound

World in Conflict


I know you have Hellgate, so do I.. I've played it in DX9 and in DX 10.. DX 9 is no comparrison... DX 9 is functional.. and that's about it.

[Sirgod]

That might be, But I was refering to DX10 games only, at least that's what I meant.

Besides, I'd have to spend way too much money just getting my system up to really take advantage of Vista.

AMD 3200
MSI K8 NEO MB (IIRC)
ATI Radeon 1600 Pro (still AGP)
1.5gig ram,
two 160 gig HDs,
Using on board sound, as my Creative card died on me.

Heck IT would be a year before I could even think of putting something together anyway. And that's putting about 50 back each month.

Stephen

[Czar Mohab]

Sadly, Vid card is "integral"; however, I can tweak the Vid RAM through BIOS... weird thing is that finding this neat trick also let me find that the Vid card has its own memory... unless Vi$ta's lying to me...

My only hope is for the $100 or so 4GB RAM upgrade, with a tweakage towards max vid card shared RAM... IIRC ~1GB (total)... That should show 'em

Then again, optimism towards all things electronic has brought me many a let down in the past.

I'll have to look into that jump drive thing. Too bad it doesn't seem like it would work with something bigger, like the external HDD I've got laying around...

Czar "Thanks so far," Mohab

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Maybe you've already seen the forums at the main KA site, but if you haven't: http://klingonacademy.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/

It's still got a pretty good number of players who are still working on Klingon Academy. Unfortunately, the forums aren't very busy, and last time I tried joining, a moderator never got around to giving me the right to post. Hopefully, there is already a Vista help thread there, and it will help you out.

[Pestalence_XC]

Sadly, Vid card is "integral"; however, I can tweak the Vid RAM through BIOS... weird thing is that finding this neat trick also let me find that the Vid card has its own memory... unless Vi$ta's lying to me...

My only hope is for the $100 or so 4GB RAM upgrade, with a tweakage towards max vid card shared RAM... IIRC ~1GB (total)... That should show 'em

Then again, optimism towards all things electronic has brought me many a let down in the past.

I'll have to look into that jump drive thing. Too bad it doesn't seem like it would work with something bigger, like the external HDD I've got laying around...

Czar "Thanks so far," Mohab

Most laptops have Modular Mobile graphic cards.. you can order them from Newegg.com... You just need to go to your laptop's web site and find the newest version of the laptop you have, then go into Modifying it like you are buying it.. you will see selections for Video Graphic Cards.. find the best one they offer and look it up at Newegg..

You should be able to pull a panel off the bottom corner of your laptop and be able to replace the GPU..

as for system memory, most laptops can only handle 2 Gb system memory.. yours will probably take 200 pin DDR2 at 667 Mhz .. that should cost about $35 at Newegg for Crucial memory with Lifetime warranty.

that should get your system up to specification to run what ever game you want except the latest greatest titles..

If you can get your system up to a 4.0, then most games on low settings will play just fine.. if you can get a 5.0, then you can handle any newer game and older games on Normal settings..

if you have a system with a 5.5 rating, you can handle almost any game on Max settings..

and if you have a 5.9 (highest) you can actually run Microsoft Flight Simulator in DirectX 10 will full graphic settings on max.. but that game has to have either a crossfire rig or an sli rig to do that... However turning AA down to 8x you can run the rest of the settings at maximum without a problem on 5.5 or better systems..

a 3.1 rating is what is required for a bare bones Vista to run or bare bones XP.. I would look into at least the RAM.. that will help you 100% right there.

[Czar Mohab]

Maybe you've already seen the forums at the main KA site, but if you haven't: http://klingonacademy.3dactionplanet.gamespy.com/

It's still got a pretty good number of players who are still working on Klingon Academy. Unfortunately, the forums aren't very busy, and last time I tried joining, a moderator never got around to giving me the right to post. Hopefully, there is already a Vista help thread there, and it will help you out.

Used to be THE source for KA mods. They didn't take to my fan fic there, but the stories are still posted (hehe from like, 2000!)

Took your advice on the jump drive, Pest. Then SP1 came out. Between the two, there's a huge improvement in overall speed and capability.

Everything I've read on this compy says 4GB ram is doable. Just that because it is 32 bit Vista, it will only see about 3GB. Doesn't mean that I can't "share" the other GB with the vid card, though.

Can't seem to find the vid card "upgrade"... from what I have seen, this particular series rolled out with one of 3 equally crappy ATI cards. Never had so much trouble with an ATI card before... except when my cat broke one.

On a positive note, Homeworld 2 not only installed but played (much better than the more powerful XP rig, too)... but after some long searches for the stupid catalyst driver that was "right" for my system... Still didn't fix KA, but the flashing is less.

Czar "Guess I'll have to wait and see," Mohab, who adds that 4GB of the appropriate RAM could easily go for $5-$6 on eBay if everyone wouldn't be so bloody greedy and think that they needed it so bad... jerks.