Topic: Query on Server Kit  (Read 3714 times)

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Offline RazalYllib

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Query on Server Kit
« on: April 04, 2008, 06:35:46 pm »
Jumped in NW server doc and it jarred a synapse or three but I still have some questions that I thought I knew the answer to and I have not done any customazation edit in years.

#1
Server Kit 2552 b36 will run on 2003 server?

#2
In metamap.gf

MovementDelayInMilliseconds=15000      // This is how long it take to move 1 space on the map in milliseconds

How does the map (.mvm) impedance value and the hexvalue.gf speed values impact the movement delay?

#3
Above was ref the hexvalue.gf file, is the 9= value the "cap" to that value and when hex loose defense due to action, does the settings in
 
[VictoryPointModifier]
Easy=35 // victory changes hex defense value by 35 in Captain mode
Med=15  // victory changes hex defense value by 15 in Commodore mode
Hard=5  // victory changes hex defense value by 5 in Admiral mode
PureAI=0.2 // change due to pure AI battle is negligible

drop the hex defensive value evenley base on the values above or scales to the parameters in hexvalues .gf?

I know the flippoints are

[Battle]
MinVictoryPointsForPlayerVictory=0.2 // flips at 20% for player wins
MinVictoryPointsForAIVictory=0.1 // flips at 10% for ai wins
We can certainly control the value the hex flips to:
HexHealthResetRatio=0.5

But something in my head reminds be that the the hexvalues.gf have some bearing on how a hex drops in value ... but I may be confused again.

#4
Base Transition...IIRC placeing a base on a max of initial Def Value will not boost it over the value, but I read through the sql stuff and apparently you can mod this cap once the data is init...Does the def values in hexvalues.gf require consideration of all potential hex values...ie the extra boost in placing a Starbase?

that a couple off the top of my head...i am working hard a new map to test concepts (took awhile to shake off the dust but I remember how to use artifex again) and I hope I am seeding the map with the correct values and not have to do over again.
Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2008, 07:21:20 pm »
Quote
#1
Server Kit 2552 b36 will run on 2003 server?

Yes.


Quote
#2
In metamap.gf

MovementDelayInMilliseconds=15000      // This is how long it take to move 1 space on the map in milliseconds

How does the map (.mvm) impedance value and the hexvalue.gf speed values impact the movement delay?

They do not. (That I am aware of) I usually set the movement delay at 3 seconds. (3000ms)


Quote
#3
Above was ref the hexvalue.gf file, is the 9= value the "cap" to that value and when hex loose defense due to action, does the settings in
 
[VictoryPointModifier]
Easy=35 // victory changes hex defense value by 35 in Captain mode
Med=15  // victory changes hex defense value by 15 in Commodore mode
Hard=5  // victory changes hex defense value by 5 in Admiral mode
PureAI=0.2 // change due to pure AI battle is negligible

drop the hex defensive value evenley base on the values above or scales to the parameters in hexvalues .gf?

I know the flippoints are

[Battle]
MinVictoryPointsForPlayerVictory=0.2 // flips at 20% for player wins
MinVictoryPointsForAIVictory=0.1 // flips at 10% for ai wins
We can certainly control the value the hex flips to:
HexHealthResetRatio=0.5

But something in my head reminds be that the the hexvalues.gf have some bearing on how a hex drops in value ... but I may be confused again.

Generally it is advised not to touch the values in hexvalues.gf. They do not seem to affect how hex values change.

For the usual DV shifts of one and to flip at zero I use this in metamap.gf:
[Battle]
MinVictoryPointsForPlayerVictory=0.02
MinVictoryPointsForAIVictory=0.01
HexHealthResetRatio=0.02
FriendlyPassThroughHex=3
AllowAIToTakeHexes=0

[VictoryPointModifier]
Easy=1
Med=1
Hard=1
PureAI=0.2

But note that you must make the corresponding setting in Score.gf
[Hex]
WinThreshold         =0.02


Quote
#4
Base Transition...IIRC placeing a base on a max of initial Def Value will not boost it over the value, but I read through the sql stuff and apparently you can mod this cap once the data is init...Does the def values in hexvalues.gf require consideration of all potential hex values...ie the extra boost in placing a Starbase?

I always set base placement DV boosts to zero as that is what the players want. There are too many exploits if you leave it set to >0. It can be very frustrating for the players.

Once the db is intialised you can mod max DVs to be larger than initial DVs with sql as well as on the flatfile with Dave's new editor. (though that takes a little planning on the flatfile)

I recommend you have a look at these: ftp://www.dynaverse.net/sfc2_op/server_kits/custom_gfs/The_Forge_gfs.zip
and start from there (just changing the db type, map, missions descriptions etc...)

Be sure to pick DieHard's brain too, as he knows some of this stuff better than I. (S'cippy/HerrBurt, the ol Dyna master too)


Offline RazalYllib

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2008, 09:02:57 pm »

Quote
#2
In metamap.gf

MovementDelayInMilliseconds=15000      // This is how long it take to move 1 space on the map in milliseconds

How does the map (.mvm) impedance value and the hexvalue.gf speed values impact the movement delay?

They do not. (That I am aware of) I usually set the movement delay at 3 seconds. (3000ms)

--->

Ok, I thought the impedance values on the map had to individually correspond to the 0--9 speed values thresholds in hexfiles.gf and that the value set as 1 was scaled from the:

MovementDelayInMilliseconds=15000      // This is how long it take to move 1 space on the map in milliseconds

That way you could set some hexes that are "quicker" to move through in delay, does anyone know otherwise?


Quote
#3
Above was ref the hexvalue.gf file, is the 9= value the "cap" to that value and when hex loose defense due to action, does the settings in
 
[VictoryPointModifier]
Easy=35 // victory changes hex defense value by 35 in Captain mode
Med=15  // victory changes hex defense value by 15 in Commodore mode
Hard=5  // victory changes hex defense value by 5 in Admiral mode
PureAI=0.2 // change due to pure AI battle is negligible

drop the hex defensive value evenley base on the values above or scales to the parameters in hexvalues .gf?

I know the flippoints are

[Battle]
MinVictoryPointsForPlayerVictory=0.2 // flips at 20% for player wins
MinVictoryPointsForAIVictory=0.1 // flips at 10% for ai wins
We can certainly control the value the hex flips to:
HexHealthResetRatio=0.5

But something in my head reminds be that the the hexvalues.gf have some bearing on how a hex drops in value ... but I may be confused again.

Generally it is advised not to touch the values in hexvalues.gf. They do not seem to affect how hex values change.

For the usual DV shifts of one and to flip at zero I use this in metamap.gf:
[Battle]
MinVictoryPointsForPlayerVictory=0.02
MinVictoryPointsForAIVictory=0.01
HexHealthResetRatio=0.02
FriendlyPassThroughHex=3
AllowAIToTakeHexes=0

[VictoryPointModifier]
Easy=1
Med=1
Hard=1
PureAI=0.2

But note that you must make the corresponding setting in Score.gf
[Hex]
WinThreshold         =0.02


Quote
#4
Base Transition...IIRC placeing a base on a max of initial Def Value will not boost it over the value, but I read through the sql stuff and apparently you can mod this cap once the data is init...Does the def values in hexvalues.gf require consideration of all potential hex values...ie the extra boost in placing a Starbase?

I always set base placement DV boosts to zero as that is what the players want. There are too many exploits if you leave it set to >0. It can be very frustrating for the players.

Once the db is intialised you can mod max DVs to be larger than initial DVs with sql as well as on the flatfile with Dave's new editor. (though that takes a little planning on the flatfile)

I recommend you have a look at these: ftp://www.dynaverse.net/sfc2_op/server_kits/custom_gfs/The_Forge_gfs.zip
and start from there (just changing the db type, map, missions descriptions etc...)

Be sure to pick DieHard's brain too, as he knows some of this stuff better than I. (S'cippy/HerrBurt, the ol Dyna master too)


Quote

Ill gander at the forge stuff installing 2003 on the other box now ... had to scrub the abomination that is windows ME off the drive (scavanged from a buddy) .

Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
Says "don't you see?"
Gotta make it somehow
On the dreams you still believe
Don't give it up
You got an empty cup
Only love can fill
Only love can fill

Offline Bonk

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2008, 06:38:38 am »
Quote
Ok, I thought the impedance values on the map had to individually correspond to the 0--9 speed values thresholds in hexfiles.gf and that the value set as 1 was scaled from the:

MovementDelayInMilliseconds=15000      // This is how long it take to move 1 space on the map in milliseconds

That way you could set some hexes that are "quicker" to move through in delay, does anyone know otherwise?

That has never been done/achieved as far as I know. You would be the first. I imagine it would take some trial and error to find out if it works, and then extensive testing to determine its effect on stability if it does.

I can search through the kit source to find out for you. I'm working from Linux today, I'll check it out next time I have windows up.

Offline RazalYllib

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2008, 02:07:31 pm »
hexvalue.gf and the map impedance does have a impact on movement speed...tried it out and definatly there is a relationship between speed of turn in milliseconds...hexvalue.gf speed entrys and map impedance settings...gonna test some more...but this is deja vu cause I think i did this experiment way back when...ya know, before the discovery of fire long time ago's....
Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
Says "don't you see?"
Gotta make it somehow
On the dreams you still believe
Don't give it up
You got an empty cup
Only love can fill
Only love can fill

Offline Bonk

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2008, 02:41:09 pm »
hexvalue.gf and the map impedance does have a impact on movement speed...tried it out and definatly there is a relationship between speed of turn in milliseconds...hexvalue.gf speed entrys and map impedance settings...gonna test some more...but this is deja vu cause I think i did this experiment way back when...ya know, before the discovery of fire long time ago's....

Far out and wild man! You gotta do a server now!  ;D

You could do some neat stuff with that.

Offline RazalYllib

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2008, 08:15:19 pm »
Im gonna call it a measure of sucess (nowhere close to the ongoing sports event of the decade ie sprites.q3)
sorta kinda figured out how to "throttle" player movement speed with some testing on single player...ymmv natch...
but i am now sure i stumbled on the mechanic before when if first messed with the .gfs before cause all of this is strangley familiar.

any how...

this is my synopsis:

in metamap.gf entry - MovementDelayInMilliseconds=

the value defined above is equal to the scale in hexvalues.gf
specifically the entry X=1.0 in the speed section

Modification of the hexvalue.gf allows the ability scale the the speed players move on the DV through modification of the speed (0= through 9=), with values between 0.1 and 2.0 in each of the 10 slots.

You must ensure the impedance values in map itself correspond to one of the defined breakpoints for you to get exact timings you are seeking. If you use a high values you can get more dramatic effect ... i used 6k millisec for testing and your standard moves are coded on map impedance as 0.5 it is a 3 sec move for the player but put a couple 0.1 in a row and its a less than sec--ie racetrack, a 2 values slows it very noticeably to a crawl and it also impacts the shade of the on map icon if you have em all in a line you can see the shading from high to low.

IIRC that is what all the hexvalues.gf do is a delta-like impact and controls their brightness on map...but everyone generally leaves em nice and pretty straight and no funky curve. I belive there are min/max values to each of these settings...speed did not work right consistantly at value greater than 2.0 so it may be a hard cap in play.


Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
Says "don't you see?"
Gotta make it somehow
On the dreams you still believe
Don't give it up
You got an empty cup
Only love can fill
Only love can fill

Offline Bonk

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2008, 06:44:56 pm »
sorta kinda figured out how to "throttle" player movement speed with some testing on single player...

Oh... that is no guarantee it will work with the serverkit. A quick test on the flatfile should not be hard though.

Also, use caution with very short movement times on the serverkit, the mission matching at the completion of each movement is the single biggest load on the serverkit. Put a whole bunch of movements too close together in time and bad things happen. (watch the cpu use on the server during movements and you'll see what I mean).

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 10:07:30 pm »
hexvalue.gf and the map impedance does have a impact on movement speed...tried it out and definatly there is a relationship between speed of turn in milliseconds...

Say what???!!!!  Oh, you gotta be kidding me!

I always thought those numbers were just unimplemented tools that never got finished.

There are definitely some possibilities here.  Good work alerting us to this!

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

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Offline NuclearWessels

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 11:44:05 pm »
hexvalue.gf and the map impedance does have a impact on movement speed...tried it out and definatly there is a relationship between speed of turn in milliseconds...

Say what???!!!!  Oh, you gotta be kidding me!

I always thought those numbers were just unimplemented tools that never got finished.

There are definitely some possibilities here.  Good work alerting us to this!

-S'Cipio

Gassssssp!  Lizzzzzard Alert! Lizzzzzzard Alert!

Hey Pops - how's life with the little one (sorry Raz, not to hijack an interesting thread!)

dave


Offline RazalYllib

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 11:53:26 pm »
Didnt do much network fiddling this pm...had company.

Im on 4 or 5  iteration of a 40 x 20 map, trying to get a custom FnE style layout and not happy with the end product.
Any tips on map size and the server kit...how big is TOO big? Trying to start w/ a neutral zone of 3 hex and that may be part of the problem.

Im gonna take Bonks advice and the fast lane will prob be the 3 second standard....but there are 9 other speed settings to mess around with so there will be "friction" in movement, particular around terrain.

I gandered again at the politcal tensions and never liked the default setups for the cartels and will prob muck around w/ the others (before putting em back to default) before calling that part done.

Another daunting task I do not relish is trim of the shiplist...thats gonna be a pain as well but I think a minimalistic OOB might be at least somewhat interesting .

Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
Says "don't you see?"
Gotta make it somehow
On the dreams you still believe
Don't give it up
You got an empty cup
Only love can fill
Only love can fill

Offline RazalYllib

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2008, 12:01:43 am »
S'Cipio

I think the hexvalues.gf do have a measure functionality, its just undocument feature time.

IIRC...back before fire was harnessed...ya know...EAW DV launched...I experiented w/ em and got odd things with non standard values...I suspect that the 10 values are basically a curve for the min/max values (corresponding to values on the map) and Shifts are based on the the X= value if listed non-linearly. That was many years ago and much of what I stumbled on quickly forgotton, tho I thought I posted some on taldren boards.
Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
Says "don't you see?"
Gotta make it somehow
On the dreams you still believe
Don't give it up
You got an empty cup
Only love can fill
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Offline RazalYllib

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2008, 08:26:37 pm »
Update-

Got the server box and the router to play nice static IP assigned etc; Need to look up ports and stuff after the mega dload of the service pack. Tested out the remote control feature...works just fine.

I plan to run the op server on it, specs = 2ghz P4...current 256 ram and rising (buddy has some to donate) What is the best answer to the question "How much RAM?" other than as much as you can cram into it stock and perfectly viable answer to above question.

My buddy and I gonna frankenserver a webserver box next or and/or find more ram for my ageing yet functionally perky Athlon XP1700+ which is what I was gonna use and then one of the other boxes he has (another Athlon) will basically house the DB on msql / dns alternate and maybe boinc. Ill still have an 1.7 celeron box that might be a file host but Ill need a switch for that, and I am trying to be frugal...Ive already endured enough ECB over this issue and trying to avoid loosing more boxes on my already damaged #3 and #5 shields.

It should not be that long now (in the vicinity of SOON (tm) naturally)...though I do want a custom map job to mess around with the impedance / speed settings.
Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
Says "don't you see?"
Gotta make it somehow
On the dreams you still believe
Don't give it up
You got an empty cup
Only love can fill
Only love can fill

Offline Bonk

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2008, 09:32:55 pm »
Memory requirements are minimal if not using SQL.

If you are using SQL then memory requirements are all in how you configure it. Disable InnoDB (select custom setup and no-transactional datbase only) which will reduce MySQL's memory requirements considerably. If the Game server and MySQL are going to be on the same box, then you can disable tcp/ip in MySQL as well, saving additional overhead. To connect by named pipe on windows from any client on the same box just set the server hostname to "." (e.g. in the ODBC connector driver).

Then MySQL's memory usage will depend mainly on the other settings you make in my.ini. I have written up general guidelines elsewhere here before. (I'll see if I can dig up an example)  The my.ini for this webserver is attached, bear in mind that is for four cores with 1GB ram.

Cache settings are the main factor in MySQL's remaining memory use. You want to use MySQLs cache and disable caching at the ODBC connector driver.

There are guidelines for the mysql ini settings in the manual but spread over a number of locations... (looking for the link to the bulk of them now) ah here it is:
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/mysqld-option-tables.html
it outlines what options are avaoilable in the oprion file(my.ini) but note the syuntaxx does not always match what is indicated. It takes a fair bit of trial and error to dtermine what works on what platform. The two I mentioned for windows should be eneterd in the my.ini like:
skip-networking
enable-named-pipe = 1

The manual tends to give the options in the linux command line format, as I mentioned it can take some trial and error to get the syntax right for any particular option in the windows mysql option file.


I used to run the serverkit on MySQL on a 256MB Althlon system, but was hosting the DB on a seperate 512MB Athlon running QNX.

I tend to overestimate the memory required and MySQL is just fine with reserving itself a huge chunk of the page file, just keeping what it needs in ram (InnoDB excepted of course - just disable it, you won't need it).
« Last Edit: April 09, 2008, 09:49:30 pm by Bonk »

Offline RazalYllib

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2008, 10:26:46 pm »
Initial testbed will be with flatfile, just to make sure things are at least functional.

It is a goal to have the sql DB on a separate box and generally as much ram as I can cram into especially if I go a larger map if memory serves.

Sql is of tertiary importance in the master plan.

Though I have been wondering if I could direct connect the integrated firewire on the opserver box to the db box...via a firewire card that could be purchased and installed on it-Is this a viable option?

I dont know if the celeron would be viable as the DB host in the choices that I have access too for frankenserver fabrication, I may have a donation of another p4 to the cause-certaintly not the K6 spare machine that was given to me that may find use crunching boinc and or primitive file server/alt dns.
Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
Says "don't you see?"
Gotta make it somehow
On the dreams you still believe
Don't give it up
You got an empty cup
Only love can fill
Only love can fill

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2008, 11:58:55 pm »
hexvalue.gf and the map impedance does have a impact on movement speed...tried it out and definatly there is a relationship between speed of turn in milliseconds...

Say what???!!!!  Oh, you gotta be kidding me!

I always thought those numbers were just unimplemented tools that never got finished.

There are definitely some possibilities here.  Good work alerting us to this!

-S'Cipio

Gassssssp!  Lizzzzzard Alert! Lizzzzzzard Alert!

Hey Pops - how's life with the little one (sorry Raz, not to hijack an interesting thread!)

dave



Hiya, Dave!

Things are going great with the little one.  She learned to walk, so that brought trouble.  But then she learned to smile big and shout, "Daddy!"

So now she owns me.

I'm still waiting for her to hit that age where I get to sleep again.   ;D

Cute though, huh?

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

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Offline Dfly

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2008, 08:40:40 pm »
LMAO, looks just like DAD

Offline NuclearWessels

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Re: Query on Server Kit
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2008, 10:21:49 pm »
LMAO, looks just like DAD

Gimme a break, Dad never looked that good  ;D