Topic: KDF E-7 "Blood Honor" (quv 'lw) class battlecruiser wip...Need your help

[Raven Night]

Before the short background...I started on some of the ships ive completed, and realized that I needed to start with something easier to get back into the texture mode. So I picked up my D-7 Ktinga replacement, the E-7 quv 'lw. I can do the textures on this mesh with much more ease than my other meshes.

Ok...this is the replacement for the aging but reliable D-7 class. The ship is around the same size, about the same menuverability and has a similar  crew compliment. That is where the similarities end. This vessel is faster (though the same speed at impulse, much faster at warp), has more armor, more weaponry and stronger shields than its predecessor. Overall a marked improvement.

This vessel has a single torp launcher aft and fore, 4 medium long range disruptor cannons (ventral wing pods), 4 fore and 2 aft short range light disruptor cannons, and 10 very short range defensive disruptors located in key positions on the hull, mainly used to defend against drones and torpedoes.

The ship has 2 hangars, one aft that contains one small drop ship and 3 fighters, and one just to the rear of the ventral crew module with 4 shuttles. Like the D-7, this ship can carry up to 200 ground troops.

The vessels main strength over its predecessor is the addition of extra armor plating without reducing impulse speed and the 4 long range medium disruptor cannons, making the ship much more effective against capital ships. The cannons have a slow firing rate however, so the ship still has to rely on hit and run tactics to stand up against ships outside of its class. The D-7s weakness on its ventral rear hull has been eliminated.

Ok, this mesh is currently in the texture process. Working on it over at BCC, thought I would get some feedback here as well. I think im going to go with a mix of the original D-7 from the movies, the Q1 and the Vorcha/Neghvar, leaning more toward the old D-7. Since im better at more modern Klingon textures, this might be a tough one.

Sofar im not real happy with the result, but that could be because I dont like the TMP pattern. Or it could be that I stink lol. They look a bit cartoony to me, Let me know what you think sofar. The first pics are of the clean mesh, then the current texture progress.

[Raven Night]

Part two. Updates will follow, would like your input.

[Klingon Fanatic]

Although my preference is TMP Trek, Kudos for cranking out a non-Federation ship! 

It reminds me of the ENT D-4, tension cables and all.

If I had the talent and tools, I might cover the command boom in armor plating and make the command pod less round. IMHO, there are too many flat-head style, soft, curves on it. It should be more like a flying knife IMHO, LOL.

Yet another possible shining example of the TNG Fed-Klingon alliance at work...

Nicely done though! We definitely need MORE Klingon vessels.

Qapla'

KF

[Raven Night]

Your going to like the Hammer of War then hehe.

Ok, more updates...this texture section still needs a few edge tweaks...improper or rough cut-offs exist in certain spots, which I will correct, but this section, save any major complaints is pretty much complete, and sets the theme for the look of the ship overall.

[Raven Night]

Thanks. Do you think it needs more weathering? Im not as good at TMP stylish textures, so this one is new to me. I do TNG/NE better. Any suggestions to make the textures more realistic would be welcome.

[Norsehound]

Most Impressive!

Typically most TMP Klink ships aren't rendered in the same 'enemy green' that most TNG alien ships seem to be colored (roms, Klinks). The BOPs are, but ships like the K'Tinga and D-7 don't seem to be painted green unless they're in a game.

Some links for references;
http://www.startrekkie.com/screenshots/motionpicture/gallery.php?galnum=1  (Klink battle, TMP)

http://members.aol.com/IDICPage/TMPKlingon.html  (Kronos-1 References)

Hope this helps. The ship looks really nice

[Raven Night]

Yea, I used the studio model as a base (hence the TMP style aztech) but you might be right...I might have gone too green. I could try washing it out a bit more to grey, but I would want it to still have at least a slight green hue. Ill try washing it out more (lowering saturation) and post some pics to see what you guys think.

How about realism? Does it need more weathering?

This is the pic I was using for color reference...is the hue incorrect?

[Norsehound]

Klink ships from TMP and before are usually painted grey. I think your source image might be color-distorted slightly because it's a photograph... on-screen the TMP K'tingas look grey to me. Had I the TMP DVD on-hand I'd screencap some shots for you to get pictures. The reference links I posted were the best I could get.

It's only after the TNG BOP issue that the Klingons adopted "enemy green" as their standard hull color, starting with the Vor'Cha.

[Rod ONeal]

Might try WZ's Klingon texturing tut. It's for PSP, but should translate to other apps OK.

http://drs.battleclinic.com/tutorials/tut_klinktextures.htm

[Fedman NCC-3758]

NICE !!   


Must plant thread device here. ---------> 

[Tulwar]

I like!  It looks like a pre-TNG ship, but I agree with the tension cable comment.  That does make it look like an ENT abomination.  Never mind me, though.  Everyone's a critic.  The body definately looks like a modernised D-7.

[Norsehound]

I don't know what you guys are talking about

She looks like a great light cruiser / heavy cruiser one-off to me.

[Raven Night]

Im working on weathering, I appreciate the link. It should help alot.

Here is my latest work on the pattern. Let me know what you think.

I dont know if I mentioned it, but I designed this ship around 2001 or so, so this design existed long before ENT. It is unfortunate that some of their designs are similar to some of mine....believe me, I dislike the series as much as most of you. That goes double for the ship designs.

[Raven Night]

I was thinking of adding some red accents at the end, but I was going to concentrate on putting them on the ventral hull. Can you take the above pic and show me what you mean?

[Raven Night]

Ah. The item at the end of the spar there is actually the impulse engine, or to be more exact the cowl around the impulse engine. I think I could do it in red though...isnt it red on the Vorcha or the Neghvar?

[Raven Night]

...I was actually going to redo the textures on the C9, being as how the current textures, with all the gold accents and the overabundance of red is because it is a "Qonos 1" ship. If you want to tackle that one, Id love to see what you do with it.

One point I would make, or that I wanted to change besides removing the gold accents was changing the red armor plates on the side of the neck to green.

[Norsehound]

Personally I'd keep looking to TMP's K'tinga for inspiration as a 'standard' klingon TMP cruiser for coloration and markings. I always felt Quo'nos-1 was a specially decorated battlecruiser, which fits with SFB/SFC since they have a special "diplomatic cruiser", which Quo'nos-1 appears to be (obviously sans the photon torpedo though).

[Rod ONeal]

Personally I'd keep looking to TMP's K'tinga for inspiration as a 'standard' klingon TMP cruiser for coloration and markings. I always felt Quo'nos-1 was a specially decorated battlecruiser, which fits with SFB/SFC since they have a special "diplomatic cruiser", which Quo'nos-1 appears to be (obviously sans the photon torpedo though).

I like this thinking! I'll now go searching for a nice D7 diplomatic cruiser to add to my game. Thanks!

[Raven Night]

Personally I'd keep looking to TMP's K'tinga for inspiration as a 'standard' klingon TMP cruiser for coloration and markings. I always felt Quo'nos-1 was a specially decorated battlecruiser, which fits with SFB/SFC since they have a special "diplomatic cruiser", which Quo'nos-1 appears to be (obviously sans the photon torpedo though).

No doubt. The C9 I released was actually the "Qonos 1" version, the Heart of Kahless, one of two sep ships on the Qonos 1 super battlecruiser. I had intended on created a plain version but never got around to it.

[Raven Night]

Ok, here is the latest, a pic of the bridge module, as well as the work on the lateral edges of the mesh.

[Fedman NCC-3758]

                         

[FoaS_XC]

You've gotten way better at texturing.
I am curious as to what method you use to ensure uniform thickness between panels. Do you eyeball it?

[Raven Night]

Eyeball and copy cloning. Most of the detail is hand done, though I do use the topography tool to raise panels up when I start in some places.

Generally, I use pictures of engines, machinery, current ships (studio models), as well as my own concepts, finished models and such to make the texture set.

When I do an area, this is how i begin. I start with a base color, a few points off from an area around the area im doing...panels rarely match in color, and the ever so slight patchwork coloring adds to the realism. I then use the lasso and normal box selection tool to select my desired panels, increase the brightness of the color about 10 points and delete, creating the panel base. I do it again for a third stage panel if I want one.

Next is either adding shadow and highlight myself (15 points lower and higher for the lines, one thick) or the topography tool. Now I use the multi-tool set to lightness down, with different sizes and densities to add shadowing, concentrating on the base area and edges of the panels.

When shadows are applied, I then add lines. I use colors about 10 points lighter or darker than the surrounding panel to create the line details on the panels, having the lines get stronger or weaker in certain areas (due to lightness variations from the lightness tool) which again adds to realism. Finally comes the little light specs on the edges of the panels...not a very good weathering method, but at least its something.

I still have a long way to go though lol.  Here's a pic of how the ship looks at the moment.

[AsYlUm]

That is truely top drawer stuff.. great work. 

[Norsehound]

Looking great Raven.

[Raven Night]

Well, this topic was deleted at BCC, so I guess ill be posting all my updates here.

Here is the latest on progress.

[Tus-XC]

hey, I don't know if its to late, but you think you could pull the naccel struts down a bit so that the naccels are below the bridge bulb?  I think it would help make it look a lil less boxy imho.  Outside of that looks good

[jericho]

Very realistic looking, are you giving specular maps aswell?

[Raven Night]

I could try pulling them down and see how it effects the textures.

Im going to do speculars, im just not so good at them. Right now I have a Diffuse and Glow map in place. Usually I just do a negative image, greyscale, and then increase contrast, but lately that hasnt looked right.

[Tus-XC]

I could try pulling them down and see how it effects the textures.

Im going to do speculars, im just not so good at them. Right now I have a Diffuse and Glow map in place. Usually I just do a negative image, greyscale, and then increase contrast, but lately that hasnt looked right.

lol, ya thats not exactly a spec map (at least not the way i've heard of doing it).  I usually grayscale the image in photoshop, then use equalize, then undo it to use the fade command (i think thats right), which basically lets you control how much you want the last command to appear in the image (ie you can do different blends and stuff, basically it overlays the last effect on top of the current image with opacity options and the like)  From there i play with the brightness/contrast and the levels a bit until i get what i like (and try to remember the numbers so i can repeat it through the project)

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

This is truly a beauty. Good work! I look forward to replacing the stock K-XCA with this E7.

[Raven Night]

Actually, I never thought of equalize...PSP has that option as well. I used it to make a temp map, it is a bit bright, but I ran a render with my latest work so you can see the effect.

Here is my progress. Let me know what you think sofar.

[Rogue NineCH]

This ship is looking incredible, keep up the great work.

[Raven Night]

Thanks...but how do the speculars look? Too strong?

Im working on the neck at the moment, ive been avoiding the aft lateral wing because im not sure what I want to do with it yet.

[Raven Night]

Fallen...is modelsplease still around? Im going to need him to convert this to Mod format. Id also like to talk to him about hardpoints...might be a good idea for me to put them in so converters know where the weapons and systems are.

[Rod ONeal]

Looks great , Raven. I really like the command pod design. I didn't realize that the scale was going to be such a large ship. I'm  judging from the wee size of the windows on the command pod. Personally I'd rather see it smaller. Looks great though.

[Raven Night]

Looks great , Raven. I really like the command pod design. I didn't realize that the scale was going to be such a large ship. I'm  judging from the wee size of the windows on the command pod. Personally I'd rather see it smaller. Looks great though.

Right now the windows are just placecards. Once I finish the textures, im going to size her against an old D-7 (shes going to be slightly larger than a D-7, but around the same class of ship), figure out her exact length, get the deck height from the length ratio, and then do the windows proper. I just put them in as dressing for now.

[Rod ONeal]

Looks great , Raven. I really like the command pod design. I didn't realize that the scale was going to be such a large ship. I'm  judging from the wee size of the windows on the command pod. Personally I'd rather see it smaller. Looks great though.

Right now the windows are just placecards. Once I finish the textures, im going to size her against an old D-7 (shes going to be slightly larger than a D-7, but around the same class of ship), figure out her exact length, get the deck height from the length ratio, and then do the windows proper. I just put them in as dressing for now.

Glad to hear that. I was hoping for something that'd be usefull as a C7 BCH in SFC.

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Given the size of the windows, what would be the overall length of this ship?

The Sovereign is over 700 meters.   This would appear to be around 900.

[Raven Night]

Given the size of the windows, what would be the overall length of this ship?

The Sovereign is over 700 meters.   This would appear to be around 900.

Actually, shes around 230 meters or so. The windows are just placecards. I will resize them to proper size once the textures are completed and I determine the proper scale.

[Norsehound]

The texturing of this monster is phenomenal.

A note though- TMP Klinks do not have glowing buzzards. They're only a TNG thing with the Vor'Cha/Negh'var. It's fine if that's where you're going, but since you asked for TMP coloring earlier..

[Raven Night]

The texturing of this monster is phenomenal.

A note though- TMP Klinks do not have glowing buzzards. They're only a TNG thing with the Vor'Cha/Negh'var. It's fine if that's where you're going, but since you asked for TMP coloring earlier..

No doubt...although Im going for an overall TMP feel to the textures, this is actually a modern replacement for the D-7. So im trying to meld different styles...I would like to avoid the red accents of most modern Klingon ships for the most part (except maybe the dorsal wing surface), but she will have some features that remind of the Vorcha or Neghvar, though mostly she will resemble the Ktinga.

[Rod ONeal]

Raven, you asked about spec maps.

I'd take just the base aztec/hull plate texture. Not with all of the raised panels and gray scale it. Make it pretty light and not a lot of contrast. Over that I'd lay the raised plate textures. The way that I'd prepare them though is with 0% fill opacity and a white/black/white gradient stroke set to "shape burst". That should kill any shininess on the seams and create a slow specular gradient moving out from them.

That's basicaly how I did the spec maps on the GK_Ent and it worked out pretty good. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Tus-XC]

Thanks...but how do the speculars look? Too strong?

Im working on the neck at the moment, ive been avoiding the aft lateral wing because im not sure what I want to do with it yet.

look fine, so a fade equalize worked for ya?  If you don't have that function the simple way is to grab your base texture, duplicate into another layer, use equalize on it and then adjust the opacity.  This helps out a bit as equalize ain't perfect and its a one shot wonder ie you have not control over it.  So doing it this way helps you control how strong you want your whites and how black the blacks.

[Raven Night]

Thanks for the help on the specs, Im going to try both methods to see how they turn out.

I started the ventral crew module, just the fore end, let me know if you like how it is shaping up. Note that for most of the top end im going with a plain panel and some greebles, something similar to the towers on the D-7 crew module. Here you can really see my patchwork panel colors in action...I wanted various shades of green and grey-green to come into play.

[jericho]

THat lucks F*ck*ng nice enough to eat my friend.. awsome job.. specs look spot on...

great sh*t

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Hopefully it will come with a brk mod.   

[Raven Night]

Thanks guys.

Well, as far as the brk mod, I dont know how to make one. The mesh will be a max 5 mesh when I am finished with seperate Diffuse, Glow and Specular maps.

What I would lilke to know is how are hardpoints made? Ive seen them in other models before, they seem to be objects in the mesh with no polys or vertices, with names attached. If that is the case, and they can be moved around, I could always import the mod version of the C-9A and move around the hardpoints on that model to use on this one.

[jericho]

Ok.. so follow the image..

1 - helpers button

2- dummy button

3- click drag to create dummy box

4- name the dummy object correctly

if memory serves my friend 1-11 are primary weapons and 12-25 are heavy weapons

so name the dummy object "hardpoint1"   (without inverted commas lol) and so on.

then place the object on your ship and position correctly.. i.e where you want the bullets to come from 

and then thats it.     again hardpoint1 to hardpoint11 are primary and hardpoint12 to hardpoint25 are heavy

[Raven Night]

Absolutely fantastic! Thank you very much.

Ok, does anyone have information on systems? What is allowed, what number they would be, so on? And are they created the same way?

The best was for me to do the hardpointing is to set where the weapons are (I can do that now thanks to jericho ) and then be able to set the major systems as well (Not sure about the system in SFC, but I know most games need things like engines, shields, power cores, bridge, etc. This way weapons can target those areas directly.

Would be nice since this way I could show where the systems are located.

[jericho]

No problem

the systems are not hardpointed, they are shown in the ui only, by modifing the .gf txt document that is released with every model, the only other dummy objects you would see are the progressive damage "a1,a2,a3" "b1,b2,b3" always in groups of three moving up the alphabet in a clockwise direction around the ship, and also the pivot points for the .brk model "object01pivot" these will be placed on the axis of each segment you want the ship to break off. and that piece will pivot on your pivot point.

I have two things you require.. 1. the taldren modelling manual for sfciii which explains everything.

2. dderidex ui hardpoint layout editor..

in the modelling manual it explains an awkward way of doing the ui..  later on the editor was released abd makes things allot easier.

download an sfciii model and browse the model folder..   cut and paste the .gf file to your model folder that your building, and name it accordingly (i.e the folder name must match the .gf and the .mod must be named the same- explained in the manual)

then after you have created the vl,ti and bs images and have them in the folder, open up the dderidex editor, when in there open up the.gf and it will show you harpoints layout, of systems and weapons.. (they will be positioned off the model you took the .gf so just move and add yours to where you have them. then save.

just ask if u have any more questions or if anything is not clear.

everything you need is still hosted here http://sfc.strategyplanet.gamespy.com/files.shtml

good luck.

[Raven Night]

Hehe, now thats irony...the files I need are on one of our sites.

I really appreciate all of your help guys. This will really make a difference.

Well, I had to modify some of the textures a bit, I didnt like how they turned out....and Im still not sure about this top pattern I put on the top of the general bridge area. It may be that I just ended it too short and should run it all the way back...you tell me.

[jericho]

you forgot damage points but im not sure how those work, only they are just like hardpoints but with a different name

lol... no i never.. 

No problem

the systems are not hardpointed, they are shown in the ui only, by modifing the .gf txt document that is released with every model, the only other dummy objects you would see are the progressive damage "a1,a2,a3" "b1,b2,b3" always in groups of three moving up the alphabet in a clockwise direction around the ship, and also the pivot points for the .brk model "object01pivot" these will be placed on the axis of each segment you want the ship to break off. and that piece will pivot on your pivot point.

I have two things you require.. 1. the taldren modelling manual for sfciii which explains everything.

2. dderidex ui hardpoint layout editor..

in the modelling manual it explains an awkward way of doing the ui.. later on the editor was released abd makes things allot easier.

download an sfciii model and browse the model folder.. cut and paste the .gf file to your model folder that your building, and name it accordingly (i.e the folder name must match the .gf and the .mod must be named the same- explained in the manual)

then after you have created the vl,ti and bs images and have them in the folder, open up the dderidex editor, when in there open up the.gf and it will show you harpoints layout, of systems and weapons.. (they will be positioned off the model you took the .gf so just move and add yours to where you have them. then save.

just ask if u have any more questions or if anything is not clear.

everything you need is still hosted here http://sfc.strategyplanet.gamespy.com/files.shtml

good luck.

glad this helps raven

[Raven Night]

Alright, a few questions.

First, note the grey panel (the one greebled up instead of armored) on the upper side of the crew module. The question is, should it be given a greenish hue so it matches the rest of the textures better, or does it look better as it is?

Next, I resized the windows early, to make them closer to what they will probably be. Let me know how they look now.

Third, note the red light ring around the outside of the torp launcher. Now, I realize this is more of a BOP feature, so my question is in two parts...first, does it work? And two, should it be more like the original (no red ring of lights)?

[Rod ONeal]

I like the gray greebling, personally. The windows should be wider than they are tall. I think that something more subtle than the red glows would look better on the torp launcher. Still looks great though.

[Raven Night]

Ok, I subdued the torp ring, finished the torp textures and changed the windows. They are still tentative...I have to check the size of the ship, then figure the decks to see if they are the right size when I am done.

[Rod ONeal]

What size texture maps do you use and how many different materials? I'm just trying to get an idea of the resolution you are working at.

[Raven Night]

My maps are 2048s. I try to limit myself to three sets of 2 2048s....one set of Diffuse, one set of Specular and one set of Glows. As to the materials, not sure what you mean by that, but if by that you mean different texture effects, its all freehand. I dont usually use materials, I like to draw the textures out...longer to do, but I can get them to look exactly the way I want.

[jericho]

Looks sweet as a nut... prefer it subdued definately 

[atheorhaven]

My maps are 2048s. I try to limit myself to three sets of 2 2048s....one set of Diffuse, one set of Specular and one set of Glows. As to the materials, not sure what you mean by that, but if by that you mean different texture effects, its all freehand. I dont usually use materials, I like to draw the textures out...longer to do, but I can get them to look exactly the way I want.

Hey..

So based off this, in Max, you'd have one material.  Diffuse (main texture), Specular, and Glows (self-illumination).

All those'd be assigned under one material most likely.  Think of materials as being slots for textures, and each slot can hold diffuse, specular, bump, ambient, and self-illumination.  (may have missed one).  IM's Firefly (that I'm currently building illumination maps for and beefing up a bit) has one material (as yours) and that'll have:

firefly.bmp (diffuse=main texture)
fireflyi.bmp (glows)
fireflyD.bmp (damage texture, read in by SFC3 and not assigned to the mesh)
fireflyiD.bmp (glowed damage texture, read in by SFC3 and not assigned to the mesh)
fireflyBS.bmp (beauty shot, read in by SFC3 and not assigned to the mesh)
fireflyTI.bmp (tactical image, read in by SFC3 and not assigned to the mesh)
fireflyVL.bmp (computer library image, read in by SFC3 and not assigned to the mesh)

So that's seven textures for the ship, seven read in by SFC 3 (five not attached to a material on the mesh), two read in by SFC 2, one read in by SFC 1.

Which actually does make making a SFC 2 mesh fairly easy to convert to SFC 3 in that fashion.. you don't have to play with materials in Max or Milkshape. just copy the diffuse and glow textures to *D.bmp and rough them up.  And then create the beauty, tactical, and visual library shots, glow the ship (if desired and warranted) and you're done more or less. 

[Raven Night]

Hits self on head....ah, now I know what he meant lol. Right now Im using one material, chances are I will end with two or three, im running out of room on the first and im not even done with the Dorsal hull yet.

I really appreciate your help guys.

[jericho]

you know the red bits around that awsome looking torp mouth.. could you try and give them a darker red stroke effect so they are outlined?? I know they are outlined already.. but i just want to see them feel meaty but subdued... so not as bright as originally..   the same opacity as now... mabey bevelled in... given depth..

im loving this man, when your done i wanna see these maps.     great insperational work for us all... and its a klink.. nobody does em... top job 

[Raven Night]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I can do that, add some beveling to the red accents around the torp tube. Ill try that.

Here are the completed crew module pics. A few notes...

First, the windows are not right yet...I still have to black out the windows on the diffuse map for the canard to stop the washout. So they look a little bright.

Second, my specular is a bit much at this point, so some spots wash out in the light. I will take the advice you guys gave, but I will wait until I am done first.

Third, I kept the contrast to a minimum to make the details wash out at a distance. At a long distance I wanted this ship to appear greyish, with the details only coming out when you got close, as a nod to the original D-7, but still retain a realistic look. This is the theme sofar, but aside from the neck and the boxes on the side of the dorsal sensor pod, most of the other details will mirror the paneling style on the wings. Same pattern and colors.

Here are the pics, let me know if this works.

[jericho]

nice man.. real nice

[Raven Night]

Believe it or not, I actually do 99 percent of them by hand. Sometimes I reuse a certain panel group on another set of vertices, but for the most part about 85 percent of the texturing is unique areas on the map, and it is all hand drawn...hence why textures take me so long.

I do, however, use the topography tool from time to time to raise panels, then add detail. Problem is it doesnt work well with vertical sides, blurring them up. So I have to go in and edit them anyway, and I decided that it might be best most times for me to add the lighting and shadow by hand.

Another thing I do I thought I should mention. My greeble ability comes from either picraping...that is taking pictures of machinery and modifying them to use in the textures, or "rape and paint", in which case I take a pic and use it as a base. I remove all of the bad fuzzed out details and replace them with my own, then use that as a template to create the greebles I want.

As to the overall textures, I usually draw a concept first and go by that. That gives me an idea of what the model wants me to make it look like...I know it sounds wierd, but this ship already knows what it wants its textures to look like, I just need to figure out what it wants.

[jericho]

Well its looking spot on man so keep it coming 

[Raven Night]

Raven don't suppose you have your old texporter images for the textures on the C9-A do you? I'm gonna see about fleshing my ideas out but i need to see how the textures are mapped a bit better

Not sure what you mean...if you mean the old texture maps from the original max mesh, I do still have those. I actually have to fix a few errors on the converted mesh, one of the textures is not mirroring properly, I think I did not apply the texture right.

Plus I have to do a standard version of the ship, minus the wing cannons and without the gold quonos accents.

[Raven Night]

BTW, I have a question to ask you guys. I decided to try another method a friend of mine suggested, namely to display the unwrapped UVs, copy the pic and resize/paste onto my map directly to use a guide when texturing. It is helping, but that is why you see the lines in the following pics...

What I wanted to ask is this: for the sensor pod "box" extensions, should they be redish or green? Let me know which looks better "green is of course closer to the D-7 scheme, where the red is a nod to the Q1 version.

[Grim Reaper]

Red imho

[Raven Night]

Ok, Here is the progress on the pod and surrounding areas sofar. I left the sensor box extensions red, reduced the brown details a bit and added more greebles in the neck connection. Let me know if this looks good at this point.

Still not sure what im going to do with the neck, I want to keep it plain, like the original D-7, I might just add some depth to the existing base texture and maybe some lines and panel extras. Im looking at pics of the original and the qonos 1 right now to decide what I think will work.

[Rogue NineCH]

I think the neck looks great as is, but a couple panel extras and a few lines here and there would look great too.

[Raven Night]

The original textures that show all the mapping itself.

Ah, I think I know what you mean. I didnt actually create a unwrap map. Whenever I use the Unwrap tool, I get a bunch of wierd pieces that get all jumbled...its probably because im not setting the right settings.

So instead I choose the polys I want to texture as I go, and place them on the map manually. I can take a shot of the Unwrap now in Max if you want.

[Raven Night]

Ok, there are a few problems with doing that for you, which I just discovered. But its not the end of the road...I have another idea.

First, the way I made that particular model, before the conversion, makes it almost impossible to do a unwrap picture. The problem is that I didnt join all the pieces together (I had planned a modified plain version for release for the regular fleet)so the map is a jumbled mess when I join all the parts together.

However, there are two points to make. One, I have to redo the model and textures anyway (I need to make some corrections and adjustments, and form it into a single object) and create the standard version with textures, so I can give you the pic you need then.

Or, I can import the Mod, which I also have, and take a shot from that...that might work, but again I have to know how I placed the textures so I know which vertices to highlight. I think I can find that out in the original mesh.

From this point forward the models are set at Dorsal/Ventral maps, so it is much easier to take an unwrap shot.

Ok, I wanted to see if you like the direction the sensor pod is taking sofar. I decided to match the outside assemblies to the general model textures instead of going completely plain, which takes it away a bit from the original D7 (the original had a more plain jane overall theme to the sensor pod). I leave it to you guys to let me know if this works.

[trax]

so much detail. so much work. its fantastic

[Grim Reaper]

Can you remember atolm's take on your BAQ? Perhaps you'd could texture the neck like that one, with those huge armour plates.

[Raven Night]

I made a few small changes to the neck, but I wanted to keep the overall nod to the original D-7, and for the most part the original is very plain. Let me know if you like my compromise.

[AsYlUm]

looking real nice.

[Raven Night]

Thanks...im working on a few texture issues right now, but ill have some progress up shortly.

[Shadowfleet]

EGGSELLENT -- Your Klinks set the standard period!

[Grim Reaper]

I love this puppy. Hurry up and finish the nacelles and windows, so i can fly her!

On a side note:
I know you want to keep her looking like the old D-7 but I'd love to see one with more pronounced armor plating like the BaQ

[Raven Night]

On a side note:
I know you want to keep her looking like the old D-7 but I'd love to see one with more pronounced armor plating like the BaQ

I plan on doing the BaQ very soon. I am probably going to lean on the heavy armor on that one

Ok, here is the completed pod, still iffy in a few places on the textures, but overall I think the theme is right. That almost concludes the Dorsal hull....next comes the Ventral work hehe.

[markyd]

Its looking amazing, infact the only other klink that i think comes close was your vorcha.

[Raven Night]

Thanks...havent done a vorcha though. Do you mean the C-9A?

Here are pics of the aft section, with the top of the hanger deck and the lateral wing edge completed. Let me know what you think.

[Raven Night]

...and I would also like some input on the plasma vents. Should I go with this pattern or a reverse pattern? (darker bars and lighter inserts)

[Raven Night]

I like the patten and placement. But that much red is kinda overkill the D7 used Teal vents...It was a pleasing color that worked with its colour scheme.. Perhaps it might work

I agree...after looking at it for a while, red did not work. So I went with an electric green, how is this....I plan on possibly toning down the glow, but for now I need it bright.

[Starforce2]

more orange, like the bop engines, or the buttons and stuff you see on targeting screens on the bridge.

[Cromwell]

I dunno, I think the green is overkill, how about something more neautral? perhaps a color that's been very greyed out so the tone of the color is a light touch and it's mostly a white glow. just my thoughts, lovely work by the way. Nice peice, the klingons needed an upgrade bad.

[Raven Night]

Ok, how about this...here is a pic with the nacelle in green, teal and orange. I can of course change the hue a bit, but you get the idea. Red is already above. Here are the reasons for each choice.

Red fits the vents fore and aft.
Orange is a bow to the Negvhar.
Green is accurate to the TMP D-7.
Teal is closer to the TNG D-7.

So here are the choices, I would like to hear your preferred color and why. Thanks. I personally am partial to red.

[Rogue NineCH]

Why not just include all three textures and people can pick and choose whatever they want?  However if I had to choose one, I would pick green since TMP is my favorite era. Is it just me or does the Red look more like Orange?  No offense intended, I'm just trying to see if my monitor is acting up.

[marstone]

Why not just include all three textures and people can pick and choose whatever they want?  However if I had to choose one, I would pick green since TMP is my favorite era. Is it just me or does the Red look more like Orange?  No offense intended, I'm just trying to see if my monitor is acting up.

on my screen the red looks more like an orange color with a yellow wash.  So your monitor should be good.

[Raven Night]

If you mean the colors in the pic, its green, teal, orange, top to bottom. The regular red one is a few pictures up.

[markyd]

the red works best for me.. but id like to see other options.. 

[MajorRacal]

I'm more swayed by the teal, but whichever colour you go for, I'd probably go for a less is more approach and scale it down somewhat.  Of course it might help to see the nacelle glows in context with the overall ship, but right now it looks like too much (at least to me) - particularly if you're aiming for more of TMP inspired Klingon scheme.

[Rod ONeal]

I would lose the red on the end caps as well and go with either all orange or all teal on the nacelles. (How's that for a total non consensus? lol)

[wulf111]

I would lose the red on the end caps as well and go with either all orange or all teal on the nacelles. (How's that for a total non consensus? lol)

i agree with Rod on this one the red ends just dont fit right i would go all teal as well

[Raven Night]

Ok, here is all teal and all red. I prefer the all red, as IMO it really sets it apart from other older klingon ships, and has a much more aggressive look to it. However, teal or green (I would prefer green more) also has some good qualities, and of course is a better nod to the original.

One thing to consider is that both the warp plasma vents and deflectors on my fed ships have had color changes compared to standard Starfleet vessels. Warp plasma vents are a blue-purplish kind of color, and deflectors are all red instead of yellow or blue. So, having red vents on this ship would show the Fed connection.

[Rogue NineCH]

Why not just include all three textures and people can pick and choose whatever they want?  However if I had to choose one, I would pick green since TMP is my favorite era. Is it just me or does the Red look more like Orange?  No offense intended, I'm just trying to see if my monitor is acting up.

on my screen the red looks more like an orange color with a yellow wash.  So your monitor should be good.

Thanks for the help, I just got this monitor in February and I was hoping there wasn't anything wrong with it.

As for the colors, well now that I have seen the red and the green I am torn between the two.  What ever color you choose I think the nacelle looks better when the tips match the vents.  I see what you are saying about the red setting the ship apart from the rest with a more sinister appearance.  I say go with the red and then include the green to give us the best of both worlds. 

[Kreeargh]

Damn thats sweet  It needs a little weathering though in my opinion. Klinks dont go anywhere with out a little battle damage   Any plans for a high poly version for renderings etc? It looks too good for just a game model !

[Raven Night]

Thats pretty high praise, thank you. I think I have a long way to go though before Im satisfied with the textures. Im getting there though.

As to the weathering, I always start with a plain set like this. Then I add shadows, then a darken rgb around the edges, then the weathering (im not very good at it yet, but ill get better). Finally after that comes the panel lines so they blend into the shadows.

So thats why the pics of the panel are plain. I have to decide on the color first. Then I will add the detailing.

[markyd]

red i reckon... 

[Akira_Commander567]

Impressive, very impressive, but I'd had a way to make a way to give clan marks to the ship.It would make it more believeable for many people. I'm also having a problem in the fact that the ship does have no reconizable phaser or disrupter banks on it.

[Raven Night]

Ok, she has a few disruptors placed on the hull here and there, as well as other weapons, as follows....

1) First pic, short range light disruptor, defensive, located on aft dorsal sensor pod. One is also located on the belly, and one on each wings outer edge, port and starboard. I will also be placing one on the ventral face of the crew module (the horizontal cylinder just below the neck, aft of the bridge section.). There are two small hanger decks there for small shuttles.

2) A medium disruptor battery in the nose, 4 cannons.

3) A heavy disruptor pod, long range, two cannons, one pod under each wing.

4) Aft section, one medium battery of two cannons below the main hangar deck and the aft torpedo launcher.

As to the clan marking, great idea, tell me where it should be located and I will cut a poly for that location and create a standard map there so people can just place the clan marking in that area on the texture, and it will appear on the ship.

[Raven Night]

Oh, and one more pic...I cant help myself.

Im going to release a blackfleet version, as a bow to my Newships days and SFC1. Complete with red skull on the nacelle strut hehe.

Here is a pic...

[markyd]

very cool....   great work.

[Akira_Commander567]

While I've got no idea where to find the markings, the marks are often use family symbols and more often than not, they've got the number of kills the ship has made on the side nearst to the bridge. But it depends on the clan as well, some Klingon clan ships are red, deep green, or even a dark orange. But you may have to find out for yourself because the things I listed here are rumors I've heard of on my travels through the Internet.I hope it helps!

[Raven Night]

Ok, here is the nacelle detailing sofar. Im almost done with the mid panel, still have to do the top and bottom edges, and the details aft and fore on the nacelle, but you get the idea.

[Rogue NineCH]

Wow this ship is looking better and better, excellent work!

[Akira_Commander567]

Very impressive. I'm in awe of your model, could you send me a copy?Please.

[markyd]

awsome work on the detail, it looks like its slighltly darker than the rest of the hull though.. or is that just my monitor?

great work

[Akira_Commander567]

Perhaps you should add a missle bay on the ship?

[Raven Night]

Thanks for the comments guys.

No copy till it is released

Its your monitor I think....The hues are the same, could be lighting.

Missile bay?

Oh, and I pulled a dufis...JUST realized that the symbol on the side of the ship was for the house of Gorkon....duh. Ok, so a fix and an option that will be built into this model.

I will include a number of house plates with this set of textures, allowing someone to just swap out the map to change the clan symbol, or just design their own if they wish. The house symbol (or whatever you want to put there) will appear perfectly on the left and right nacelle strut. I will post a few examples....

Note that you will not need to have artistic skills to change the house symbol...you just drop in the new pic into the folder and it will appear.

The question I have for you guys is as follows....will this create a problem with the conversion to mod format, and will it have the same effect?

[Raven Night]

Its actually a seperate map just for those polys. I cut a section of polys out of the strut, and mapped that section to a completely seperate map thats on the small side...examples are shown below.

What I have done is evident. First of all, standard map is clean, no house symbol. I have created 6 house symbols sofar, with one more to make (Mogh), and I will make any others you guys can post. I will offer the flashes as a seperate zipped download so people can choose the house they want to display, or they can just use the one single map and make their own.

Since it is just a colorize of the panel area, no change to the glow or spec maps are needed. If you do your own symbol, I would suggest this method, but I will include instructions on how to do it both ways just in case.

So you will be able to have a ship that displays YOUR house if you want. If this works out, I can do the same thing with Feds.

Now, I know that some of the houses listed would be invalid for one reason or another...I simply include them because they are actually canon. Including the PROPER Duras house symbol, before it was altered by Lursa and B'Etor to include them and Toral in the mix. Apparantly, according to a friend, the symbol on the bottom is the original Duras crest.

At any rate, clean, example and a flag sheet shown.

Please, if you know of any others I can add, let me know.

BTW, I may have to reduce the size of the Gowron and Martok crests, they seem a bit too big.

[Raven Night]

One more update....House of Mogh

[Lepton]

Some really, really amazing detailing in your texturing job.  First rate.

[Akira_Commander567]

Those were some of the clan markings I was talking about. I wasn't sure that they existed though................

[markyd]

nice work with those insignias, you going to cut them up a bit, like they where scorched or summat?

[Raven Night]

Well, I may add some weathering here and there on the panels.

Here is the next set, this will be it I think for now unless someone finds others. Of course, alot of these are invalid because of history, but it just gives you the option to use the house symbol of your choice, or you can just make your own.

[Akira_Commander567]

More impressive than before, I'm glad you took my advice. The clan marks will make the ship very belivable to any Trek fan, even one as picky as me.

[GotAFarmYet?]

More to the point where did you find the list of Klingon houses and their symbols?

[Raven Night]

Well, I did a search on the internet, and looked for those house symbols that were shown at least three times. It also helped if the site was reputable.

Then I took some liberty from there, assuming that the symbol painted on the side of the ship was a symbol representation of the house symbol, if Gorkon's symbol is an example. I decided that they use a very plain graphic in red and yellow, and fashioned each one to be similar to the established house crest.

[Akira_Commander567]

I'm very impressed by your effort. You could also try to make some mercenary marks, for Klingon mercenaries. You could also try making them in Fedration markings for a captured or purchased ship.

[Raven Night]

I had to make some changes to the windows...what I discovered was, if I went with the size of the windows, the ship would be far too small. I want it to be a bit bigger than the original D-7.

And in keeping with the original's style, it had two rows of windows anyway, so here are the changes I made, as well as some small nose texture tweaks around the torp launcher.

Another few notes...though this pic doesnt show it, I really hated the mirrored windows and decided to fix it. Now the port side has a different map for the windows, so the lit pattern is different, which makes the ship look much better.

Also, in case I didnt indicate it before the ship sits at about 5000 polys, using 2048 textures....two sets of three (diffuse, glow, specular) and one small map for the nacelle strut. So a total of 9 maps overall.

My current ceiling for polys is about 7500. I have also changed the base color of the polys textured by map set 1 as green, map set 2 as blue and map set 3 as red. That way it will be easy to see which set covers which polys, if someone wants to know. Each diffuse map will have a color block on it matched to the base color of the polys so it is easy to match them up.

My question to you guys is....does base color of the polys really matter? I expect it wouldnt, but I just wanted to be sure.

[markyd]

Its a great looking ship raven

[Raven Night]

Thanks, here is a pic of the nacelle progress inboard. There is a small part I havent finished yet, but you get the idea.

[Ravok]

 Beautifull !!!! Drool... Drool...

 Q ` apLaH !!!

[markyd]

Its not normally summat i would comment on, but being as your so fussy with your detail, i reckon i can get away with saying id like to see the buzzard looking chunkyer, bulk her up with more panels, texture wise.. but it looks sweet as a nut raven. 

[Shadowfleet]

If drool mixed with sand makes concrete - I could be stuck right where I am for a long time... EGGSELLENT work Raven. I can't wait to add her to my Klink fleet.

[Raven Night]

Its not normally summat i would comment on, but being as your so fussy with your detail, i reckon i can get away with saying id like to see the buzzard looking chunkyer, bulk her up with more panels, texture wise.. but it looks sweet as a nut raven. 

No, I appreciate the comments and suggestions....she has to be as perfect as I can get her for my skill level. That means I need criticism.

That said, the inboard panel is smoother than the rest of ship mainly because the studio model showed this panel to be almost devoid of detail, save the actual vents themselves. Well, I wasnt having a plain panel, so I added some detail.

[Starforce2]

the nacelles inboard grille should be a more orangish color like the kilongon sensor grid control pannels (IIRC, the one chang used to target the excelcior in undiscovered countryw as orange and triangular, but that's the hue I'm refering too)

[Akira_Commander567]

Looking great, make the base the standard dark green of the Klingon Navy,also try to get those unfinished details done double-time.

[Akira_Commander567]

Looking great, make the base the standard dark green of the Klingon Navy,also try to get those unfinished details done double-time.

[Raven Night]

So nice he had to say it twice hehe.

I could do the same thing with the panels....do a few different colors, and allow the user to choose which color they want to display on the nacelles....would you guys like that?

[Grim Reaper]

you still need to ask? With this bunch?

Hell yeah we'd love that!

[markyd]

Its not normally summat i would comment on, but being as your so fussy with your detail, i reckon i can get away with saying id like to see the buzzard looking chunkyer, bulk her up with more panels, texture wise.. but it looks sweet as a nut raven.

No, I appreciate the comments and suggestions....she has to be as perfect as I can get her for my skill level. That means I need criticism.

That said, the inboard panel is smoother than the rest of ship mainly because the studio model showed this panel to be almost devoid of detail, save the actual vents themselves. Well, I wasnt having a plain panel, so I added some detail.

OK thats a very appropriate explanation, plus take +KUDOS for recieving crit as so many guys take it offensively nowadays, great stuff man.

[Akira_Commander567]

It could also be a little cool for you to make an assimalated version of it, you know, for the Borg

[Akira_Commander567]

Ok, I can wait for an assimalated version, but it would look very cool if we got it right.

[Raven Night]

Thanks guys.

Ok, status of the work...I have the entire bottom of the model almost completed map wise....so once I have the little bits and boodles all in their proper place, I can start on the texture map.

I did have to make one change...I made the crew module (globe on the front of the ship) larger...I realized it was still too small. The problem was that I had the polys all cut to pieces while I was doing the textures, and I didnt want to mix vertices that used different maps, so I had a problem....

But I figured out a solution. Found out that you can group chunks of vertices together, then choose mesh select, and then choose polys in the selection menu, and voila.....the ability to manipulate the polys in a group without putting the parts together first. This saved me alot of time, and the model looks much more balanced now. The crew module is larger, neck is longer, warp engines were swung down a bit so they were not so flat an angle, and I didnt have to change the textures because the resize didnt effect them much.

Just a quick pic to show the better ratio now....

[Akira_Commander567]

The top one looks the best, but you're it's creator, you're in charge of that ship's creation. Try to make it look as good as you can.

[GotAFarmYet?]

As always the choice is yours but if you ask for opinions you usually get things you don't wnat to do

I would add a deeper bend at the engine mounting point and then further bend the engines in some more a bit more towards a D7, to make it fit more in between a D7 and a vorcha.

I would also consider a more D7 looking deflector on the top area of the secondary hull.

It also appears the colours in the textures are shifting some, could be from the render software. The panels on the engines have a more gray look to them then the hull. It causes the details to show on the engines nicily but tends to blur out on the hull. I think it makes the hull look more flat then you were intending considering the detail you put in there. You might want to darking the low areas a bit more and move the highest areas alittle to the red side of the colouring spectra.

[Raven Night]

Well, I prefer the bend for the nacelles as they are, for the following reasons....

The current bend looks more modern, and although I had to reduce the flatness of it I wanted it to resemble the same angle of vorcha nacelles and struts.

I have decided to go with the second version, save alot of complaints against it. I can go back to the original if I need to in the future.

[Akira_Commander567]

I'm afraid I'm of no futher use to you on this ship. Hope it all goes well.

[Shadowfleet]

Raven - I like them both --  a lot -- why not release an E-7S (short neck) scaled slightly smaller for use as a scout and an E-7L scaled larger as a full up war ship? I also like the idea of releasing her with the different nacelle textures so folks can customize it. WZ does a lot of his releases with alternate textures and I've always thought that it is a nice touch.

Even if you release just one, it'll be an awesome gift to the community! WELL DONE and thanks for sharing!

[Akira_Commander567]

Yes, I'd love to seee this ship in a mod for SFC 4.

[Raven Night]

Thanks for the comments.

Here is what I am planning (something like it) for the E-5. I am going to use the current mesh, but remove the "booms" on the side of the neck, give it a round flare on the side of the crew module (instead of the delta shape there now), remove the impulse engine booms in the rear, and reshape the sensor pods and the wings slightly.

Here is the current pattern for the ventral wing, let me know if you like the pattern sofar.......note that no weathering or detailing has been added, im looking for feedback on the overall pattern.

[Starforce2]

where are those orange warp manifolds I keep suggesting?

So no multiple booms? Never been fond of them anyways.

[Raven Night]

They will be included as an alternate texture...Im going to do the same thing I did with the panel, allowing people to just drop in the color they want.

Ill be offering two seperate sets, one for the front vent and details, the other for the grill inside. Ill offer orange, red (standard), green and a dark purple to use with the Darkfleet textures, or just by itself if you want.

So all told, this ship will have a seperate texture pack with dark textures, the extra house panels and the different vent colors.

[Raven Night]

thats alot of red paneling on the underside of the wings... a small suggestion dont just use the red. Have some rak green or even some very obvious gray panel, will give a nice bit of variation and will show off your textures

Its a good point...if I want to make it look similar to the original D-7, Ill have to add in a dabble of dark green and grey here and there. Ill add more detail, I wanted to get the base texture pattern down, and see if it worked for you guys.

But dude, i am seriously loving thiese textures. very cool. How far do you think you are from release as i think i can handle most of the porting for you and i knows a few people who can make you an impressive brk model to go along side it.

Thank you. Well, Im looking at about a month right now...Im doing some private work on a demo for another company, as well as taking modeling lessons from my staff to prepare me for retirement at the end of the year. So Im working on it bit by bit, but I will continue on the model to its completion.

What are your plans for damage textures. I know BC uses its own damage and applies it, but you know as well as i do that SFC doesn't like that idea and require the damage mapps with the model... If your not doing them, mind if do them?. Ive got some very cool damage templates that im dying to try out.

Im all for you doing damage textures for it, and as always I appreciate your help and the help of outlance.

[markyd]

So I like the shorter neck with the new wing adjustments.   Good job so far on the underside 

[Raven Night]

Thanks. I think they grew on me too.

Here is what I am proposing for the klingon symbol on the ventral hull. Now, a few things I would like to note...

First, no weathering or heavy detailing has been applied. This is just a pattern example, for your guys perusal and consideration. I can make changes as needed before finalizing.

Second, I change the logo a bit. Since the ship is more of a "speeder" so to speak, sleek and lean but still very predatory, I stretched the actual logo a bit to give it a similar sleek appearance.

Third, I have learned in my lessons how to use the cutout and drop shadow tools in PSP...giving me the ability to add some raised detail to areas of the maps, adding to the realism. In this case, I looked at the D-7 from ST:TMP on the ventral hull and tried to create a design similar to the original, including a similar bulge and some of the raised areas.

Let me know what you think.

[Raven Night]

Now that I look at it, Im getting rid of the greebles I put in to the left and right of the insignia. They just detract from the overall look.

[Kreeargh]

Now that I look at it, Im getting rid of the greebles I put in to the left and right of the insignia. They just detract from the overall look.

I kinda like it no offence it adds some more detail to the hull other than pannels and such. It give it a more mechanical feel to it. Damn good job by the way 

[Raven Night]

Thank you, no offense taken, I did remove the greebles, but I can add them back in if you guys think I should. Ill post a pic of the progress shortly.

[Spartan-039]

I like it. How many weapon systems are on this ship?

[Starforce2]

if the C9A was any indication.....enough

[Raven Night]

This vessel has a single torp launcher aft and fore, 4 medium long range disruptor cannons (ventral wing pods), 4 fore and 2 aft short range light disruptor cannons, and 10 very short range defensive disruptors located in key positions on the hull, mainly used to defend against drones and torpedoes.

[Spartan-039]

Nice, I'd hate to be on the business end of those weapons, it kinda makes me think of a AC-130 Spectre gunship.

[Raven Night]

Though I wanted it more powerful than the current D-7...and we could discuss both canon and in-game weaponry to determine proper strength, I just determined what would be a good weapon level for this ship as the current battlecruiser.

If this ship was to be common, it would have to have heavy enough firepower to stand against a capital ship if in a group of three...I call it the "threes level".

Most ship battle groups seem to be limited in numbers, unless it is a large invasion fleet. When we have seen groups of ships travelling together, they would tend to be three...not sure if this was intended, so I assumed it was common.

Using that principle, this ship would have to have three vessels to stand against a Galaxy class, lets say. Now, it would be very strong at close range, but at that range a Galaxy would be even more dangerous.

So I imagined a scenario where three ships would fight straight on, with no cloak. Then based the weapons on that.

[Raven Night]

Ok, I have a few things to discuss.

First, I considered doing a bridge module similar to the original D-7 for a while, I even built one...but decided in the end to leave it off. Perhaps I will use it when I make the E-5. Instead I added a small slit on the forward dorsal hull to hold a few micro windows...I wanted to ask you guys if 1/4 windows are ok, or do I need to increase them to the size of the other windows.

Now, the windows on this ship are bigger than the originals on the D-7 (full size, almost ceiling to floor), creating some problems with scaling, but I think I have decided to make this ship about the size of the C-9a, or basically a ship between the D-7 and the Vorcha. I will work out the exact size later, but suffice to say it is bigger than originally conceived.

Therefore I had to make a few more changes...I modified the torp launchers fore and aft to fit a larger ship, and also modified the maps a bit to dress them up. I also put them farther back in the hull, closer to the original.

So, let me know what you think of the bridge window bar and the new design for the torp launchers. I am about 50 percent finished with the initial textures on the ventral hull.

[**M23**]

I think it looks great... additions are cool 

[Raven Night]

Thank you...looking for some more feedback, working on the bottom textures now as I wait for more opinions. I especially need feedback on the following...

SIZE OF THE SHIP

I am proposing this ship will be about 1.5x the size of the original D-7, with the E-5 closer to the size of the original battlecruiser.

TORP LAUNCHERS

Torp launchers are deeper and the graphics have been redesigned to match the movie and game models better (the shine). Let me know if you like it better this way.

BRIDGE WINDOW BAR

Does the bar work as the proposed bridge area (a buried bridge, compared to the original bulge on the D-7), and is the half-size windows an issue?

[I, Mudd.]

Actually, I like the Torpedo Launcher best of all ...

... change nothing, as it 'goes forth and rocks'.

JM.

[Raven Night]

Thanks for your input.

Anyone else? As long as it is ok with everyone, im going to move on to finishing up the ventral textures.

[Starforce2]

yes..or we'll still be discussing this next year...

[Raven Night]

Ok, Im almost finished with the ventral hull. There are still some parts that are untextured, and of course I need to add the detailing and weathering to the base textures, but you get the idea. Note that I did in fact decide to change the plasma vent to green...first, to closer resemble the original D-7, and second because the red washed out the ventral hull too much...basically too much red with the panels.

Here are the current pics.

[GotAFarmYet?]

The outline is a bit too green

They should be a glow effect on the actual hull for that area, so the engine grills should glow more than the outlined area.

I also agree with Mudd the trop launcher is pure beauty at its best

[Shadowfleet]

Holy crap! She'll be an instant classic! Nice work RN.

[Raven Night]

Ok, I made a few adjustments to the nacelle vent glows..

First, I removed the outer bright line, and adjusted the overall glow a bit to look like it is inside the nacelle. Then I changed the hue and brightness to better match what was seen on screen. This was the result..I can tweak it further if needed.

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Looking awesome .....     


Now taking bets.  Odds: two to one.

Which happens first: The models release or the thread reaches twenty pages.


               

[Raven Night]

Hehe. Sorry guys. It takes me a while. Once I retire ill have much more time on my hands, so I should be able to knock them out quicker.

[marstone]

Hehe. Sorry guys. It takes me a while. Once I retire ill have much more time on my hands, so I should be able to knock them out quicker.

Its not you it is how almost all of them are released (or to put it, are not released, alot are teased and then shealved it seems).  But there is always a healthy debate on each of them.

Now as for the ship, 'tis not my tastes so it doesn't appeal to me, but it is a darn good ship, will make a great addition to the fleets.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Ok, I made a few adjustments to the nacelle vent glows..

First, I removed the outer bright line, and adjusted the overall glow a bit to look like it is inside the nacelle. Then I changed the hue and brightness to better match what was seen on screen. This was the result..I can tweak it further if needed.

I would say prefect on it now!
Think you hit it right on this version of the warp areas

[GotAFarmYet?]

Hehe. Sorry guys. It takes me a while. Once I retire ill have much more time on my hands, so I should be able to knock them out quicker.

Its not you it is how almost all of them are released (or to put it, are not released, alot are teased and then shealved it seems).  But there is always a healthy debate on each of them.

Now as for the ship, 'tis not my tastes so it doesn't appeal to me, but it is a darn good ship, will make a great addition to the fleets.

Well I do have to agree some projects get shelved or lost, PC dies or gets replaced. I would also say that  most ppl who do not do this or tried it, do not realize how much time and effort go into it. Making the Model, unwraping it (this is harder to do than anything else) and finally making textures for it, the more detailed the longer it takes, all take a toll. Ask Cent when motivated and working on it diligently it can take 3 to 6 months just to get the textures right for the ship. Now add HPs and DPs Damage textures Spec maps, bump maps and other files for multi game releases and each ship takes a year or more to actually do to complete a project. If you treated it as a full time job 8-10 hours a day you could probably do it in 3-6 months but most of us can not devote that much time to it.

It takes as much time as it takes!

oh yeah and thanks for the updates Raven, and for allowing our opinions onto your ship. I know it is not always easy to keep up with a forum and the work you are doing.

[marstone]

Well I do have to agree some projects get shelved or lost, PC dies or gets replaced. I would also say that  most ppl who do not do this or tried it, do not realize how much time and effort go into it. Making the Model, unwraping it (this is harder to do than anything else) and finally making textures for it, the more detailed the longer it takes, all take a toll. Ask Cent when motivated and working on it diligently it can take 3 to 6 months just to get the textures right for the ship. Now add HPs and DPs Damage textures Spec maps, bump maps and other files for multi game releases and each ship takes a year or more to actually do to complete a project. If you treated it as a full time job 8-10 hours a day you could probably do it in 3-6 months but most of us can not devote that much time to it.

It takes as much time as it takes!

oh yeah and thanks for the updates Raven, and for allowing our opinions onto your ship. I know it is not always easy to keep up with a forum and the work you are doing.

I know, it takes a darn long time.  I have started to diddle on making a ship myself.  I have no time and it is frustrating when you can't work on your projects.  As these are done as a hobby and not for pay, they take way longer then most of us would figure (but when looking into the details some put on there ships I wonder how you could get them done as fast as they do).

a point I missed on it was these posts can grow way faster then a project can get done, 'specially if the project is tre' cool looking.

[SYLAR]

I was about to say those engine grills should be modelled in. but the latter wip proved me completely wrong. i think you nailed it with that effort and this looks fantastic.

[Raven Night]

Thanks, I appreciate the comments and opinions. Keep em coming.

Im working on the pods under the wing, the only things left to texture. Then ill add the detailing/weathering, try my hand at making some hardpoints and then release her.

BTW, here is a shot of the E-7 with the old D-7 for scale, so you get the idea of what size I am shooting for.

[Raven Night]

Ok, I have the textures pretty much completed, need to do a few tweaks here and there, I started to add the weathering and detail. Should have her done in a few days. Then I will put the model together, seal her up and send her out for conversion.

Here is the finished ventral pattern. I made a few changes...added a ventral cargo door on the neck, and changed a few of the windows (bridge) and added the glowing deflector on the sensor pod as a nod to the original D-7 from the first Star Trek movie.

Let me know how you think it is shaping up.

Oh, and a side note....the larger pods I have changed into "shieldbusters", ala Neghvar. They will be short range high power disruptors with very long recharge times, say maybe 5 to 10 minutes. I based them on the shots seen coming from the Neghvar pods that disabled DS-9s shields. If you know of some contradictory information, please let me know. Note that these weapons would only be useful at almost point blank range, but would be able to collapse a shield pretty much in a single shot.

[Raven Night]

Bump for final feedback before I zip this one up.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Nope,
I think you have this one pretty much covered for details on the modle and textures, Storys and ifo on the shows is more of MPs domain

[Shadowfleet]

I can't wait for the release. You've done a great job on this one Raven. You've always been a master at Klingon design. Although, your Fed WIPs over the past year or so look just as if not more promising.

I wish I had a 10th of your talent. THANKS for sharing!

[Raven Night]

I can't wait for the release. You done a great job on this one Raven. You've always been a master at Klingon design. Although, your Fed WIPs over the past year or so look just as if not more promising.

I wish I had a 10th of your talent. THANKS for sharing!

Wow, you really need to see the crap I used to make just two years ago. You do have the talent I have, trust me. All it really takes is this....

Build crap. Then keep building more crap, experimenting, looking at other models, read tutorials and take in that knowledge, and develop your own style. Myself, BBarr and Moonraker got started by messing around with a hex editor with the Starfleet Command 1 models (anyone remember the FNCA?). That was 8 years ago.

If you ask me, it took me too long. I for one am looking forward to retirement so I can become just another modeler.

[Bernard Guignard]

I remember the FNCA I thought it was a nice TMP variant design that I could see evolving Great work on that one 

[Raven Night]

Ok, almost finished, but im having a problem. Maybe someone here can help. Im using Max 5.5 right now, and my tutor is Awol.

Here is the problem...I have 4 sets of 3 maps each, diff, spec and glow. They have a base color assigned to the polys, so you can shut off the map and see which poly group applies to that particular diff map (useful for those that wish to see how each map is assigned). I also have MatIDs assigned (4 groups) in poly selection, so the major poly groups that each specific map is assigned to can be removed.

So 4 map sets, 4 MatID groups they are each assigned to. I want it to stay that way.

The problem I am having is that when I attach all 4 objects into one seamless mesh, then do a Unwrap UV all of the maps on all of the groups show up. Let me explain a bit further.

I have Map 1 assigned to poly group 1. It has a purple color. After attaching the group to the other groups, if I select the group by matID and do another unwrap, all the maps from all groups on the mesh show up. Even if I detach the group again it still shows all the maps.

What I want is the ability to assign a poly group to a map, and have only that map set (diffuse, glow, specular) show up when the poly group is selected in the combined mesh. At the very least I want to be able to remove the polys in the group and have only the maps assigned to it show up. I dont need the maps from the other groups clogging up the Unwrap UV dialog window.

Does anyone know how this can be done?

[FoaS_XC]

If I'm following you, correctly...
There should be a drop down thing at the bottom of the Edit UVW map dialog that allows you to display only that material. Do NOT use CTRL+A to select everything, because it will select even the hidden UV data.

[Raven Night]

I may not be explaining it right...I thihk I know what you mean, though.

Your talking about the drop down material ID box at the bottom? If you are, that displays the mapping for that particular group....when I first open it up, its a gaggle of poly lines of course, but when I use the drop down to choose, say one for instance, the polys that I assigned to MatID group 1 stay and the others hide.

What I am actually talking about is the drop-down texture display box at the top left, next to the "show map" and "UV" buttons. When I open that drop down box, all the textures for every single MatID group in the model are shown, instead of only the ones that belong to the MatID I selected using poly select. I wanted to find a way to display in that box only the maps assigned to that MatID poly group, if possible.

[Raven Night]

Ok, as it turns out there is no way to prevent Max from combining all the skins into the mesh, available for all MatIDs. Bummer. I wrote a paper to include with the model, that, among other things, establishes which skins go with which MatID group.

Now, I have a few more questions. I want to set a size standard. Im having some trouble with it, so im looking for your help.

I have a model of a D-7, Moons Dark D-7 actually, generally the size standard that I use for all my models. I know how big a D-7 is supposed to be, but I dont know how to set the scale in the viewer windows (and the grid) in max to match up with the model, so I can just use the grid to set the right size for each model.

Does anyone know how to do that?