Topic: How Difficult is it to run a server?

[Tulwar]

I'm thinking about building a new computer to run a server.

I have 6.0 MBS DSL

Is that enough bandwidth, and what are the requirements for the server?

[Bonk]

6.0 Mbps DSL? I assume that is download speed?

What matters most for running a server is upload speed and latency. There is not that much data to send upstream though, latency is the biggest factor for stability of the serverkit.

So you want a very stable connection with low ping times to all the major networks. (256kbit would probably do fine for bandwidth, so long as the connection is stable and fast - fast meaning low latency.)

As far as hardware - the faster the processor the better. Flatfile does not require much memory. If you want to run on MySQL you'll need to ensure there is sufficient memory (which depends on db size and MySQL settings) Starting out though I'd definitely stick with flatfile which does not need much memory at all. I'd avoid running it on Vista. I'd also run it on a 32 bit CPU.

P.S. if you have DSL/Cable ensure you have a real modem, not a USB modem (take those and smash them into tiny pieces and then stomp the pieces into dust). Also ensure there is not a router in your modem that you cannot control.

[marstone]

  Basic server isn't really hard.  I haven't gotten the SQL one runing yet so can't say anything on how hard to run it would be.  But a basic flatfile, there really isn't much to it (although the modifing part can bend a nerve or two).  I am working on putting up my third test server (but working 12 hour days now so not much time after my little bit of sleep).

[Strayy]

Running a flatfile server isnt too hard, just the customizing you do to it can get complicated.... make sure your server is not running behind a router, or youll have all kinds of connection/drafting issues, and make sure the machine your server runs on is stand alone, that way you wont have to worry about a crash taking your server down... ( aside from the goofy thing itself)   and best of all is to read NuclearWessels bible on the subject...  http://www3.telus.net/NuclearWessels/sfc/   

[Pestalence_XC]

I may toss up a Hardcore server...

The last time I did, people complained that the AI was too difficult.. my servers don't mission match or BPV match.. you can go into a hex and face off with a frig. or a BB.. totally random.. on one mission I did on my server, I was in a NAC and the server threw 1 BB and 2 DN's at me.. needless to say I ran..

I may try again, but I will keep the difficulty settings high, but not as high as I did them last time..

I also want to see what this system can do running a server under Vista 64 bit.. I think I have a config for SFC running OK.. but I need to do some more debugging.

[Bonk]

That would be cool! I like a tough server. (Graduate of the School of Herr Burt ) I'd definitely login for some tough hardcore missions.

A hardcore server by Pestalence just sounds like a good idea to me!

Should we consider a 64 bit build of the kit?... would take a bunch of work and time... and I'd need a 64 bit system and OS to do it on. ...hey this discussion sounds familiar! It would probably be overkill but it just makes sense to me to produce a 64 bit build if people are going to run it on 64 bit systems.

Oh but wait... I'm not sure if that hardcore shiplist is Kosher with the serverkit, I've never QA'd it myself. It may be missing required ships, classes, specials... this of course depends on the starting ship settings in all years the server will run (which also applies to all server AI generation, whis it is best not to disable but satisfy in a minimal fashion...) The best way to test this is run your server on its final settings with accelerated time over the entire time period the server will run with debug output to the console or file. (don't accelerate it too fast, i.e. - at least 50% more time per turn than the sum of all the time related AI generation settings...) If you see any errors, then your shiplist and settings are not final! You could of course run the stock hardcore shiplist client side and modify it only serverside as needed if necessary.

[Pestalence_XC]

Good idea Bonk..

and my OS is Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit System Builders OEM version (109.99 at newegg) with Vista Service Pack 1 RTM installed with all latest driver versions for hardware installed.. all 64 bit...

the system runs 32 bit applications no problem.. IE COD 4, SFC OP, SFC, SFC EAW, SFC 3, Battlefield 1942, etc..

the question is can the 32 bit server kit understand instruction sets from a 64 bit OS.. I don't see a problem.. but you never know.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I may toss up a Hardcore server...

The last time I did, people complained that the AI was too difficult.. my servers don't mission match or BPV match.. you can go into a hex and face off with a frig. or a BB.. totally random.. on one mission I did on my server, I was in a NAC and the server threw 1 BB and 2 DN's at me.. needless to say I ran..

I may try again, but I will keep the difficulty settings high, but not as high as I did them last time..

I also want to see what this system can do running a server under Vista 64 bit.. I think I have a config for SFC running OK.. but I need to do some more debugging.

Do not pay attention to the wussies....
A good challenge builds character! 
That would be awesome, sir.

[Bonk]

the question is can the 32 bit server kit understand instruction sets from a 64 bit OS.. I don't see a problem.. but you never know.

WOW should cover it (that's windows on windows, not world of warcraft of course...), but I do think we should look at a 64 bit build eventually. Just need a development system and time.

[Strayy]

Geez, Pesty... dont know how many times I've heard that about the Tavern A.I's....  even dropped their aggressiveness a tad.... shiplist seems to be better balanced now... but, the server still gets in its moods & sends out heavy iron against a rowboat at times, still not sure just why....
You recheck your debugging of *&^*^^%*& vista with their new service pack release??   updated the 1 vista machine, havent noticed any improvements at all....  leavin the server machine alone, havent did any updates yet ... if it works, dont **** with it !! 

[Nemesis]

Do not pay attention to the wussies....
A good challenge builds character! 
That would be awesome, sir.

Seconded

[Pestalence_XC]

I need a list of broken mission scripts.. preferrably scripts in the OP Enhancement Pack v5.1

I am including ED mission, the regular NW missions, Tracey G. missions, and El Karnak missions

Stock missions will not be included.

the kit will be using the updated DLL files

I am also going to run the OP + 4.0 Hardcore shiplist

I would also like to know which races you would like to see allied to each other.. I'm setting it up as a 2 sided war, 4 races per side.

Server will start in early era and will run until late era... server should be set to run each era per week, with late era ending after 2 weeks after it starts (in other words 1 week early, 1 week mid, 2 weeks late)

I would also like to stress the server out and try to keep sides balanced if possible.

Map is going to be Mid to large size with small opening territory for each race.. economy should be about balanced for each race to start.

The side holding the most territory at the end of the server wins..

Fleeting rules apply as per all previous servers.

Flying as a team is highly recommended.. single pilots will find the odds against them.. if you like going alone, then please make sure you know how to handle the ship you are flying.

anyhow.. any suggestions at this point are welcome.
 

P.S. the server will be running under kit 2552 build 36 flat file.

[Bonk]

I would go with traditional alliances, 30 years of playtesting and all.. It seems we always get into trouble with balance issues if we do not.

[marstone]

the question is can the 32 bit server kit understand instruction sets from a 64 bit OS.. I don't see a problem.. but you never know.

WOW should cover it (that's windows on windows, not world of warcraft of course...), but I do think we should look at a 64 bit build eventually. Just need a development system and time.

They should be able to communitcate alright.  Poping the source code over to compile on 64bit shouldn't be that hard, there are instruction changes but not that many.  Most if I recall are taken care of by the compiler, with a few that are needed to be coded in.  I would suggest using conditional coding so that the same source will compile to 32 and 64bit.  Less chance of differences slipping into the builds.

[Corbomite]

I may toss up a Hardcore server...

The last time I did, people complained that the AI was too difficult.. my servers don't mission match or BPV match.. you can go into a hex and face off with a frig. or a BB.. totally random.. on one mission I did on my server, I was in a NAC and the server threw 1 BB and 2 DN's at me.. needless to say I ran..

I may try again, but I will keep the difficulty settings high, but not as high as I did them last time..

I also want to see what this system can do running a server under Vista 64 bit.. I think I have a config for SFC running OK.. but I need to do some more debugging.

I would love that. I've always wanted totally random meetings. I don't know why people think they should always have an easy time of it or even a chance sometimes. Sometimes you should meet a frigate and be done in two minutes and others you should find yourself faced with a six ship combat group. I set up my single player to be that way with a mixture of all the missions ever put out by anyone and file settings. I never get bored fighting AI like I do on a live server, waiting for a good PvP match. It would also give the AI a chance to defend your hexes when there is nobody of your race on line. Some really bad draws in a row could discourage would be attackers, especially if the DV keeps going up instead of down.

The problem with modded shiplists is they usually sacrifice Tactical Intelligence for "shiny new things" that, at least for me, don't add very much to gameplay in the long run. Many ships are specialized and show up in inappropriate places, too much or not at all. Many times you don't know what you are fighting until you get close or waste a probe because the ship class, UI and model are all showing you different things. On Strayy's server this could be deadly! I have nothing against mods, but in a shiplist where nothing seems as it appears and a simple looking frigate that you may ignore in favor of a nasty looking dred (because there is no time or power to probe both and you have to get the mission done lickety-split because of the enemy dogpile in the same hex) comes over and wrecks you in one shot, it tends to ruin the strategic aspect of the game somewhat.

[Pestalence_XC]

Corb, since you been debugging the scripts.. can you give me a list of broken ones for removal please?

[Corbomite]

Corb, since you been debugging the scripts.. can you give me a list of broken ones for removal please?

That really depends on what you consider "broken". Many work just the way they were intended, but people didn't like them for some reason or other and they were removed from Dyna play. I haven't yet started a formal list and some only rear their ugly warts in MP so I'd need some help for a full survey.

[FPF-Paladin]

Do not pay attention to the wussies....
A good challenge builds character! 
That would be awesome, sir.

Seconded

Thirded.  And I love the idea of not knowing what kind of battle I'm going to encounter, it would really liven up AI battles I think.

Not everyone is as hardcore as I am though, but I'm seeing some other responses that say I'm not completely alone

[marstone]

Do not pay attention to the wussies....
A good challenge builds character! 
That would be awesome, sir.

Seconded

Thirded.  And I love the idea of not knowing what kind of battle I'm going to encounter, it would really liven up AI battles I think.

Not everyone is as hardcore as I am though, but I'm seeing some other responses that say I'm not completely alone

I will agree with the rest with come caveats.  In a simple game server, one just for fun, balance is nice to have.  In a objective oriented server (i.e. ISC Pascification Server) you should have more variables to deal with, better simulation of true warfare.  So in the second kind of server it would be nice to have some really off-balance games once in awhile.  It would give players a reason to enter missions as a group, instead of just lining up to flip a hex.

One thing I am going to look into is just what can be modified in SQL while a game is running.  It might be interesting to have some SQL editing to control the game more for a campaign.  One bit being more control over the ships being offered to the players, maybe giving the race or side leaders some control over what ships are built and who can get them.

[Corbomite]

Corb, since you been debugging the scripts.. can you give me a list of broken ones for removal please?

The debugging I was looking into only involved the original Taldren scripts as I have no access to private scripter sources in most cases.

I can tell you that you can include Patrol #'s 6, 10 and 17 as well as the Starbase Construction Mission from the Taldren scripts with no issues. I do believe NW's Starbase Construction mission doesn't work right and should not be used. There are other Taldren originals that work well, but were dropped for various reasons.

From memory, I believe that the EEK missions work just fine, but have a tendency to take over selection and you hardly ever see anyone else's missions show up, so they were dropped from Dyna play.

I can't seem to find Tracey's missions and I know I DL them at some point. I might have to get your EP and extract them again.

Dave has at least two different sets of missions he produced way back when; one with a config file (my favorites) an one without. Many of the missions are the same or similar in style and the only real difference one might see is superior drone loadouts at certain times or higher odds if the file is set to a difficult setting. They both work pretty well with the double shot bug the only major isssue I remember and even that was squashed for the most part IIRC.