Poll

What do you think of the "Discussion2" system at Slashdot?

Love it!
1 (14.3%)
Hate it!
2 (28.6%)
I have no idea what you are talking about!
4 (57.1%)

Total Members Voted: 7

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Topic: Slashdot Discussion2  (Read 2134 times)

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Offline Bonk

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Slashdot Discussion2
« on: March 17, 2008, 10:59:05 am »
What do you think?

Myself, I can no longer read Slashdot because of it. I visited there today for the first time in two months and it is still unreadable.

How do they think that javascript that requires up to 100 page loads to get a full thread displayed is saving them server resources? Sucked right in by the AJAX evangelists they were. What's next? Posting in XML format for ease of use? (intense sarcasm)

It's bad enough on high speed, but it's totally unusable now on dialup.

Ah well, I suppose Slashdot has had its day. Digg just does not do it for me...

Hmmm... perhaps it's time for a new Slashdot, one that is readable end efficient. What would one call it? Textdot?

Oh here's an idea... one could set up a server and a set of scripts to "click" thousands of times like a monkey over at Slashdot to get the text of a thread, then parse it, strip all the junk and present it in a nice readable plain text format. That would be cool.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Slashdot Discussion2
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2008, 12:02:03 am »
Post a URL ..

I went to Slashdot.org and IE 7 and IE 8 read it just fine.

went into several topics and read all the posts just fine..

could you point to a URL that you are having problems with.. I want to see if IE 7 and IE 8 can rad it.
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Slashdot Discussion2
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2008, 03:25:14 pm »
Oh, pick any thread.. better one with lots of comments, say...:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/03/18/1633229.shtml

How many clicks does it take you to display all 329 posts? (329 @ 5:19PM ADT) At 30 posts per click thats 1+10 clicks to get the whole page, on dialup with each click taking 30 seconds that's a full 5.5 minutes just to get a page of TEXT!

Way more than I'm willing to click or wait. It would be one thing if it was automated somehow, but you need to click every 30 seconds in order to get that whole thread downloaded in under 10 minutes. The censored posts are always the best ones too. I do not want to read what someone else decides I should read.

It used to be that you could display threshold -1 nested in like two clicks (even though the pagination was broken, still is - related to the spill parameter)

I think you can get the old form by disabling javascript, but I just can't be bothered anymore, they've made it too hard to read. Perhaps on purpose in an effort to reduce their server loads by reducing the number of readers? (Perl is a beast no matter how you cut it).
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Slashdot Discussion2
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2008, 04:40:40 pm »
All I did was change the page parameters to Nested and it displays all the comments just fine ... the parameter settings are just above the first post.. Just use the 2nd dropdown menu and set to nested then click change.. 2 clicks...

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?no_d2=1&threshold=1&mode=nested&commentsort=0&op=Change&sid=491582

Check the link out

works in IE 7 and IE 8 just fine..
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Slashdot Discussion2
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 06:52:26 pm »
Are you logged in? Try viewing Slashdot as a guest.

Yes, I can get the old form to come up by disabling javascript (at the top of the thread where's its always been) and it works fine in Firefox or IE, (well as well as it it ever has, broken pagination and all the warts...).

However, leave javascript on as a guest and all you get is the new form that will only give you 30 posts at a time.

Here I'll get a screenshot of the two to help explain...:

Turn javascript off and you get the old form (attached as oldform.png) Leave it on and you get the new form (newform.png). The new form is the default and the only way I know of the get the old HTML form to come up is by disabling javascript. (short of registering and being subject to censorship).

Note also the white on grey fine print link that tells you where to find the old discussion system since you have javascript disabled. (nojswarn.png) It took me ages to find that, actually I had to be told it was there, I am not a 17 year old Japanese diamond grader... I'm sorry but my vision is just not that acute, never was.

OK so here's the attachements to illustrate it. I'm pretty sure I'll get exactly the same thing in IE7. I'll give it a try as well just out of curiousity, I would be shocked to find slashot developing for IE explicitly.
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Slashdot Discussion2
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2008, 07:04:25 pm »
Well I'll be dipped.  http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/03/18/1633229.shtml redirects to http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=08/03/18/1633229 when loaded in IE. So they are defaulting to the old discussion system in IE.

Well, there we go. Thanks Pestalence, I would never have imagined that Slashdot is not developing for IE as well.

Now that I know this I find it very strange. Considering that the slashdot crowd is so anti-ms in general, why would they cripple their site in Firefox but not in IE? Unless they really think what they are developing for Firefox is better? Perhaps there has been big changes in the OSTG that we haven't heard about yet? 

I wonder what they've done for Opera? Another UI again? It might be even more readable.

This is a paradigm shift in website design, and open-source politics! I just can't wrap my head around it.

Well regardless, you've solved the problem for me. I'll just use IE to read slashdot!  ;D

(Can you spoof the user-agent in IE7 or 8? It would be intersting to see how borked they've got their new site in IE.)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 07:15:06 pm by Bonk »
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Slashdot Discussion2
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 08:10:29 pm »
In IE 7 everything works just fine.. including making posts..

in IE 8.. there are problems with text boxes and lagging from what you type to what is displayed on the screen.. also another problem in IE 8 is that it will not display some menu properties correctly..

for sites that have PNG and massive CSS going on.. I view in IE 8.. if I am on a forum or search engine, I use IE7.. IE 8 has a button at the top to Emulate IE 7 (basically a non compliance mode) (IE 8 is a compliance mode but if a site is set to detect IE and labels version, then IE 8 won't read it correctly.. seeing as how most sites are developed for IE 6 or IE 7, it will take a while for sites to update to ACID 2 standards compliance.. which means everyone needs to upgrade to XP systems AND be running IE 8 to see sites correctly.. so until sites start coding in Compliance.. IE 7 is the best way to go). D.net is coded non compliance so that IE 6 and IE 7 can show the site correctly.. IE 8 will display the site correctly, however the Posting and text boxes are not coded in compliance with Acid 2 and causes IE 8 to lag when making a post.

I hope I am making sense.

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"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Slashdot Discussion2
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 08:29:13 pm »
Oh.. BTW Bonk.. I won't tell anyone that you finally admitted that IE is better than Firefox at something..

IE 8 is totally standards compliant.. the problem people will have with IE is that sites will take forever to upgrade to standards because thousands of people will keep using IE 6 and IE 7.. however IE 8 does render Acid 2 correctly.. Firefox is trying to get Acid 2 Standards compliant.

Acid 3 on the other hand.. Firefox does beat IE 8 on that. though neither browser gets anywhere near 100%.. IE 8 on my system scored 24 out of 100.. Firefox scored 54 out of 100.. and Opera scored 63 out of 100..

however IE 8 and Opera are the only 2 browsers to pass the Acid 2 test currently.

I'm enjoying the browser.. however I'm not liking to have to keep it is IE 7 mode for forums.. but I like the layout of it and functionality.. plus you can add in IE 7 Pro plugin.. makes a world of difference on what IE can do.. works in both IE 7 and IE 8 modes.

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"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Slashdot Discussion2
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 08:35:04 pm »
Slashdot in IE 8 is broken.. the site is not Standards compliant..

the discussions automatically come up as Nested.. but the page spacing is incorrect and there is no control for switching to threaded...

Side menus render correctly.. but the Javascripting in the main page is broke.. it is not Acid 2 or W3C compliant in their code..

IE 7 mode works perfectly which is non compliance mode.
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"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

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Offline Bonk

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Re: Slashdot Discussion2
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 09:50:32 am »
Quote from: Pestalence_XC on March 18, 2008, 08:29:13 pm
Oh.. BTW Bonk.. I won't tell anyone that you finally admitted that IE is better than Firefox at something..

 :laugh: No, no, no it's not like that at all. Each have their strengths, Firefox is just a better solution for my browsing style - especially on dialup.  (and um the download link on the front page scores us $1 with each install, - But we're not allowed to outwardly solicit downloads here - so I did not say that! ...  IE does not really offer any such programs that I am aware of)

What gets me about Firefox is the integration of javascript into the XUL framework of the application. Large portions of Firefox are written in Javascript (the horror!) and that will ultimately be its downfall unless they make changes soon.

IE in general is much more efficient code-wise, but I find it does not render a page until the whole page is downloaded. (Perhaps there is a setting for that somewhere?) Whereas Firefox renders text for me as it is received, so I can then stop the page when I have what I want. I can't seem to do this with IE.

I guess I'm just getting frustrated with all the bells and whistles of new websites and browsers. I like the old fashioned style. I just want a nice page of interesting readable text that downloads nice and snappy like.

Thanks for all the extra info though. Good to know about the IE8 issue. We are aware that the age of Dynaverse.net is starting to show and this needs to be addressed. But our forums db has such a history it is not a simple thing of course.

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