Topic: Everyone in the USA Read this your country is at stake

[Kreeargh]

I am a PISSED off American and im sick of the crap! TIME TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK before all the ww2 vets are dead and cant prove this was a good country they fought for.  Yea times have changed but WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPEND TO THE PEOPLE ? OR should i say SHEEPEOPLE.


33 Senators Voted Against English as America 's Official Language on

June 6, 2007.

On Wed. 6 June 2007 23:35:23 - 0500 Colonel Harry Riley , USA , Ret. wrote:

Senators:

Your vote against an amendment to the immigration Bill 1348......to make English America's official language is astounding.

On D-Day, no less, when we honor those that sacrificed in order to secure the bedrock, character and principles of America , I can only surmise your vote reflects a loyalty to illegal aliens.

I don't much care where you come from. What your religion is. Whether you're black, white, or some other color...male or female......Democrat, Republican or Independent....... But I do care when you are a United States Senator representing Citizens of America ....and Vote against English as the official language of the United States .

Your vote reflects Betrayal.

Political Surrender. Violates Your Pledge of Allegiance. Dishonors historical principle. Rejects Patriotism. Borders on traitorous action and, in my opinion, makes you unfit to serve as a United States Senator...impeachment... Recall........Or other appropriate action is warranted or worse.

Four of you voting against English as America 's Official Language are Presidential Candidates: Senator Biden, Senator Clinton, Senator Dodd and Senator Obama.

Four Senators vying to lead America , but won't or
Don't have the courage to cast a vote in favor of "English" as America 's Official Language when 91% of American Citizens want English officially designated as our language.

This is the second time in the last several months this list of Senators have disgraced themselves as "policital Hacks"...... Unworthy as Senators and certainly unqualified to serve as President of the United States .

If America is as angry as I am, you will realize a backlash so stunning it will literally "rock you out of your panties"......... And preferably totally out of the United States Senate.
 
The entire immigration bill is a farce... Your action only confirms this really isn't about America .....it is about self-serving politics......despicable at best. It has been said:

"Never Argue with an Idiot....They'll drag you down to their level!"
 

The following Senators voted against making English the official language Of America :

Akaka (D-HI)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE) (Wants to be President)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Clinton (D-NY) (Wants to be President)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd ( D- MN ) wants to be president
Domenici (R-NM) coward. Protecting his senate           seat
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-win) - not unusual for him
Feinstein (D-ca)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-hi)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy - (D-ma)
Kerry (D-ma) (tried to be president)
Kohl (D-WI))
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (I-CT) Disappointment here.....
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL) (Wants to be President)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV) Senate Majority Leader
As Lazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-M

PRESIDENT ABRAHAM LINCOLN said:
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or Hanged!!!

PLEASE KEEP THIS GOING AROUND THE UNITED STATES TILL THE ELECTION!

Another rant The Democrats!!!!!!!!

Although about 85% of the people are against it, your two runnerups
have also give illegal mexicans all
free medical, schools and meals
free welfare checks and free food
housing and the list goes on.
Senators are voted in to do what the people want done and they have done the oposite!
I wonder what these people voting for them have been reading? or where have they been?

And another
Is Bourbon still made in Kentucky?


Spend wisely...........
 How to use the rebate
 
As you may have heard the Bush Administration said each and every one of
 us would now get a nice rebate.

 If we spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China . If
 we spend it on gasoline it will all go to the Arabs, if we purchase a
 computer it will all go to India , if we purchase fruit and vegetables it
 will all go to Mexico , Honduras , and Guatamala, if we purchase a good
 car it will all go to Japan , if we purchase useless crap it will all go
 to Taiwan and none of it will help the American economy.
 
We need to keep that money here in America , so the only way to keep that
 money here at home is to buy prostitutes, beer and visit Indian casinos, since those are the
 only businesses still in the US .


This teacher had the guts to say what all of us should say!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets take action NOW!!!!!!!!!
This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet

Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

CHEAP TOMATOES?
This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent

From a California school teacher - - -


'As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. ( OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK )

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones.The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything;my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them 'Putas' whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, daycare etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements ?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools,overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc . For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won 't have the guts to enforce it . Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education , that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate , and an American culture that has become so weakand worried about 'politically correctness' that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil , as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase 'cheap labor' is a myth , a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as 'cheap labor.'

 

 

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an ' earned income credit' of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent

He qualifies for food stamps.

 

 

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches
at school.
He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled , they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at(our) taxpayer's expense

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'

THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.

 

I checked on Snopes and this is undetermined.  They didn't have any arguments with the figures so I am assuming it's at least factual.
 

I make 15$ an hr and can hardly keep food on the table and thats good $ in my community.

I can do this all day  WE NEED TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK NOW there are more than 22000 gun laws alone and they keep makeing more laws for crap that make no sence at all other than to take YOUR FREEDOM away.
 
DONT think your vote will fix the problems with this country. ACT now bitch and complain to everyone you know before the 1st admendment is destroyed also .
 
GET off your but and return this country to people.

If WE DONT ACT NOW this country will be a 3rd world country by 2020!
 Do you want to live in the USA with the government of a Nazi style system but call it a democracy?  Filty Ritch owing everything while the sheepoeple do the bidding and dying to keep them wealthy.
REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS are at fault for all of this it all comes down to the $ and how to take it from you!

Bush said our ecomemy is doing great but if you agree with that total bull sh$t than in my opinion you are part of the problem.
How is Over 100$ a month raise in food costs , 4$ a gallon gas good for this country when u cant afford to fill the tank to go to work?  But you will get 300$ back to stimulate the ritch mans pocket.
 60000 possable cases of hiv and tb in lasvegas becaues of GREED and insurance company going to sue the doctor so they dont have to pay out. What good is insurance when they dont pay out when you need it?  JUST wait till we get attacked with a REAL threat. Do you trust your goverment to protect you and will they? NO they wont they will protect the top 10% not you the sheepoeple in their eyes.
The 2 party system is wonderfull isnt it

IF you dont agree post your arguments. Admins if this post causes any problems remove it but think about it first.

[Lepton]

More appropriate to hot and spicy.  Post this there.

[Bonk]

Proabably, but if we keep the discussion academic and not political...

Here in Canada we Have two official languages: English and French.

I always found it strange that the United States does not have two official languages: English and Spanish.

I think the proportion of Spanish speakers in the US is similar the the proportion of French speakers in Canada?

Generally it is a good thing to have two official languages for all federal services. It makes work and creates employment opportunities, and serves the public far more efficiently.

I've tried to help Spanish people on the phone, it would be much easier if I spoke Spanish.  Same goes for French (though I understand way more French). Think of the increase in efficiency, I understand that over 33% of the United States speaks Spanish as their first language. Imagine how much faster federal public services could run if the employees could effectively communicate with their clients (citizens).

So am I to understand that currently the United States does not have an official language at all? I suppose you could leave it that way and leave the options for languages in federal public services open. Though it would probably serve the US as well as it has Canada to support two official languages.

The English won in both North and South America, defeating the French in the North and Spanish in the south (or just making better colonisation choices). It's a compromise. A conquered people will suffer their fate much more pleasantly if their culture is recognised and supported.

Seems like a lot of fuss over a pretty simple issue from a Canadian perspective. Bilingualism is part of Canadian cultural identity, I don't see why it cannot be part of the American Cultural identity (well it already is, there is just this little issue of denial here...).

I have been to the United states twice, once to Boston which is very much like home in Eastern Canada, and I have also been to San Francisco, which struck me as a very different culture, the place names alone indicated the difference, much as in Quebec here in Canada.

I think the comparison of the two countries in this respect boils down to the difference in the philosophies of "Multiculturalism" versus "The Melting Pot". Both have their advantages but I think time has proven multiculturalism to be less idealistic, more practical and thus more successful.

Here's a hokey hockey analogy: "We're on the same team, just different strings". 

EDIT: LOL! We're getting Canadian Immigration Google ads on this thread now... Cool!    C'mon up! We don't speak Spanish but we do have two official langages!

[marstone]

The problem I see with making multi languages the official language of a country comes down to where to draw the line.  Right now in the US, sure English and Spanish would seem to be a good choice.  But if the reason for the second language is based on number of speakers.  What is the correct thing to do if that number changes.  Say do to immigration we end up with a larger population that speaks Farsie, or Slavic.  Should we then add another official language or remove Spanish since it's numbers are lower?

 It can become a slippery slope of appeasement.  One problem without an official language I have had, went into a local store (None English speaking population is probably about 2%) and have found product that didn't have any English on it at all (not in the Ethnic food area, I would understand items being here that are shipped in from foreign contries).

  USA does need an official language, a dual could work, but have to watch out for future problems with our changing ethnic balances of the country.

 

[CaptStumpy]

Quite a rant. This thread belongs on Hot n' Spicy.

[Dash Jones]

Ironic comic...

You learn the language of the land unless you come as conquerors and destroy and then enslave, enchain, and finally channel onto a reservation the native populace.

So are you inferring that the Mexicans are also doing that to you...by reference of the comic...of all interesting things?

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Care to share that with us in Gaelic?

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

Quite a rant. This thread belongs on Hot n' Spicy.

Whoever drew that comic wasnt Cherokee because they mispelled Osiyo (hello) and "thank you" is spelled "wado".

Tsi goli Tsalagi, igvnisisgi tsi Tsalagi.

[KOTH-KieranXC, Ret.]

Yes, because every white American can spell every word in the English language correctly.

[Centurus]

Ummm....question.  Just re-read the article.  Well, skimmed through it that is, and I don't think it lists how many senators actually voted, total, on the bill.  

If it were only 60 senators, out of the 100 the Senate has, then I would say it's a pretty huge deal, cause then this bill is effectively dead.

However, if all 100 senators voted then either for or against, then that means 67 senators voted for the bill.  If memory serves, such a bill would require a 2/3 majority vote to get past the Senate floor.

Which means, that is proceeding from the assumption that the senators could only vote for or against the bill and that all 100 senators actually voted, the bill passed and now it's up to the House.

I'm all for a standard language.  Hell, I'm half Mexican, and when someone comes up to me asking me something in Spanish, it irritates me, cause they assume I either can speak Spanish cause of my ethnicity, or in some cases, they assume all I can speak is Spanish.  That last scenario, and it has happened, seriously pisses me off to no end.  Speak to me in English.  That's what I spoke in school, that's what I speak now.

But, getting back to the bill.  With all the current cr*p going on in government, i.e.: sex scandals, embezzlement, taking bribes, poor oversight, illegal wiretaps, unreasonable termination from a job, etc..., there's more to worry about than who voted against this bill, especially if it passed anyway.  That's my personal view on it anyway.  

I don't think this would have been made public much had it been a non election year.  Gotta love the press.  Elections come around, and they're hungry for dirt.  They're the only group of humans that actually love dirt, and need it to live.

Anyway, I agree with Stump and others that have made the same comment.  This is something that should be moved to H&S.

[Centurus]

Yes, because every white American can spell every word in the English language correctly.

Yep.  And it took us a while too.  Damn Brits and their misspellings.

Just kidding.

[Bonk]

Yes, because every white American can spell every word in the English language correctly.

Yep.  And it took us a while too.  Damn Brits and their misspellings.

Just kidding.

Good one! Dang that drives me nuts... I love the spellchecker in the newer versions of Firefox, but it keeps correcting me to American spellings. (They taught British spelling up here in my day, might still...)

It's "...ise" NOT "...ize"... and its "...our" not "..or"!!! The last letter of the alphabet is ZED dammit ZED! not ZEE? ZEE? what the heck is a ZEE?

On the subject of native population though, funny you should post that comic right after my comment. I was listening to the CBC yesterday and there was this funny program on where they were doing a spoof daytime TV gameshow from Quebec. Just a little dig at the Quebecios to remind them their culture is not really so much more sophisticated than ours (as they'd have you believe) richer maybe... (It was on CBC Go - they called it "Montez Moi Quebec!")  As they do get a little snotty about culture from time to time..

In any case, one question mentioned the meanings of the native  word Quebec. There are a number of theories on what it means. One is "Village". Another is "where the river narrows". Another is "Get out!".    Somehow that one rings true...

Within Quebec, the "language police" (seriously) seem rather odd and protectionist, and perhaps overkill, but who's to say it is, perhaps it is not, it is difficult for a culture not to be swallowed up by a lager one that surrounds it.

Anytime the issue of seperatation comes up Quebec is always reminded of the size, strength and rights of its native population.

I just love the Innu, look at their law. No one can own land in Nunavut, it belongs to the Innu (the people). That is beautiful man, just effing beautiful. Now we have imposed mineral rights on them on anything below 6 feet and it kind of spoils the concept, but I'd say if mining operations can restore the tundra to its natural condition after mining then it might be ok... (how likely is that?)

Good god I sound like a Canadian nationalistic motivational NFB film!

"Là ousqu'y sont, tous les raftsmen?"

Oh, my God, that song really is in an NFB film: http://www.nfb.ca/collection/films/fiche/?id=4725&v=h&lg=fr&exp=braftsmen (note the bilingual url... Here's the english version: http://www.nfb.ca/collection/films/fiche/?id=16490 - still with french in the url... must be a Francophone webmaster... also note the French version of the site: http://www.onf.ca/splash/splash.php -overkill perhaps, but see what I mean about job creation?) Anyway, that song just popped into my head. Good God, my educators indoctrination was pretty complete! I remember it because my elementary school choir won the regional Kiwanis music festival singing this song (in French - as students from an English school - though we were taught french as well of course...)

P.S. Oh and this "out and about" thing that Americans claim Canadians say funny... well, we're not buying it, we say it exactly the same as you do, the joke is over. Never could figure out why, or who though it was funny.

P.P.S. The Official Language of Dynaverse.net is English! You'll notice we support French, German and Finnish as well, but one significant language is conspicuously absent... (I know exactly why - I'm just stirring the pot there... )

[Nemesis]

The U.S. has done well for more than 200 years without an official language, why the sudden burning need for one now?

[Bonk]

The U.S. has done well for more than 200 years without an official language, why the sudden burning need for one now?

Good question. The lack of an official language is consistent with the "Melting Pot" philosophy. If it isn't broken don't fix it, right?

[jualdeaux]

Yes, because every white American can spell every word in the English language correctly.

Yep.  And it took us a while too.  Damn Brits and their misspellings.

Just kidding.

Good one! Dang that drives me nuts... I love the spellchecker in the newer versions of Firefox, but it keeps correcting me to American spellings. (They taught British spelling up here in my day, might still...)

It's "...ise" NOT "...ize"... and its "...our" not "..or"!!! The last letter of the alphabet is ZED dammit ZED! not ZEE? ZEE? what the heck is a ZEE?

On the subject of native population though, funny you should post that comic right after my comment. I was listening to the CBC yesterday and there was this funny program on where they were doing a spoof daytime TV gameshow from Quebec. Just a little dig at the Quebecios to remind them their culture is not really so much more sophisticated than ours (as they'd have you believe) richer maybe... (It was on CBC Go - they called it "Montez Moi Quebec!")  As they do get a little snotty about culture from time to time..

In any case, one question mentioned the meanings of the native  word Quebec. There are a number of theories on what it means. One is "Village". Another is "where the river narrows". Another is "Get out!".    Somehow that one rings true...

Within Quebec, the "language police" (seriously) seem rather odd and protectionist, and perhaps overkill, but who's to say it is, perhaps it is not, it is difficult for a culture not to be swallowed up by a lager one that surrounds it.

Anytime the issue of seperatation comes up Quebec is always reminded of the size, strength and rights of its native population.

I just love the Innu, look at their law. No one can own land in Nunavut, it belongs to the Innu (the people). That is beautiful man, just effing beautiful. Now we have imposed mineral rights on them on anything below 6 feet and it kind of spoils the concept, but I'd say if mining operations can restore the tundra to its natural condition after mining then it might be ok... (how likely is that?)

Good god I sound like a Canadian nationalistic motivational NFB film!

"Là ousqu'y sont, tous les raftsmen?"

Oh, my God, that song really is in an NFB film: http://www.nfb.ca/collection/films/fiche/?id=4725&v=h&lg=fr&exp=braftsmen (note the bilingual url... Here's the english version: http://www.nfb.ca/collection/films/fiche/?id=16490 - still with french in the url... must be a Francophone webmaster... also note the French version of the site: http://www.onf.ca/splash/splash.php -overkill perhaps, but see what I mean about job creation?) Anyway, that song just popped into my head. Good God, my educators indoctrination was pretty complete! I remember it because my elementary school choir won the regional Kiwanis music festival singing this song (in French - as students from an English school - though we were taught french as well of course...)

P.S. Oh and this "out and about" thing that Americans claim Canadians say funny... well, we're not buying it, we say it exactly the same as you do, the joke is over. Never could figure out why, or who though it was funny.

P.P.S. The Official Language of Dynaverse.net is English! You'll notice we support French, German and Finnish as well, but one significant language is conspicuously absent... (I know exactly why - I'm just stirring the pot there... )

Bonk, have you downloaded the British English dictionary for your Firefox? Then it will correct you properly. it is the one I use.

[CaptStumpy]

The U.S. has done well for more than 200 years without an official language, why the sudden burning need for one now?

Excellent question. As Cent aptly pointed out, we've got more than a few pressing problems at the moment.

ZOMG! If we don't pass a law making English the national language America is doomed!

Heck, I know red blooded 'mericans that have problems speaking English.

[Bonk]

Bonk, have you downloaded the British English dictionary for your Firefox? Then it will correct you properly. it is the one I use.

Nope, it never occured to me. Thanks for the suggestion! I went here:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:3
and downloaded and installed the Canadian English dictionary...

let's test it out... hmmm... lets see , I need to right click in the field and select the Canadian dictionary... ok, now...

Honour  (check!)
Colour (check!)
Pluralise (nope - not in the dictionary - get suggestions of Pluralist and Pluralism)
Sanitise (not in dictionary - the US one suggests Sanitize, and the Canadian one suggests Sanities)
Hmmm... maybe it's my spelling!
Lets' try another ise/ize word...
Ostracise (not in dictionary - again, US dictionary suggests Ostracize and the Canadian dictionary suggests Ostracism)

Well, I'll try the British dictionary then. (gotta restart to install it...brb)

EDIT: I changed to the UK English dictionary and all is well! Hooray! It highlights "Ostracize" now and suggests "Ostracise"!  Thanks jualdeaux, I don't know why I never thought of that... 

[Centurus]

The U.S. has done well for more than 200 years without an official language, why the sudden burning need for one now?

Good question. The lack of an official language is consistent with the "Melting Pot" philosophy. If it isn't broken don't fix it, right?

Real good question there guys.  I guess what the big wigs in D.C. want to do is make sure everyone can speak English, not make sure that English is the only language that anyone is allowed to speak.  I don't think the bill would make it illegal for people to speak another language at home or at social gatherings, or even in a business setting when speaking to someone else who also knows the language.

Oh and Bonk, if ya need help undoing the programming they did to you, just let me know, and I'll help ya out.  To be perfectly honest, and this is because I like ya cause I think you're a cool guy, you may not survive the process for very long, but you will be deprogrammed.  And if you survive, there is a high chance that your mind may never be the same again.

[Bonk]

Oh and Bonk, if ya need help undoing the programming they did to you, just let me know, and I'll help ya out.  To be perfectly honest, and this is because I like ya cause I think you're a cool guy, you may not survive the process for very long, but you will be deprogrammed.  And if you survive, there is a high chance that your mind may never be the same again.

Sounds like some of the wilder nights in my teenage years! (After which my mind was never the same...)

Nah, I like my sense of Canadian identity, and I do exaggerate slightly, but it is interesting to reflect on the significance and effects of childhood education later in life.

I love the NFB and similar institutions that define Canadian culture, most of it is pretty "hokey" but it's ours.

EDIT: the Google ads we're getting on this thread are too funny, check this one out:

Canadamigos Network
Friendhsip and Travel A new trilingual social network.

Canadamigos!  (note the misspelling of Friendship)

[Centurus]

Oh and Bonk, if ya need help undoing the programming they did to you, just let me know, and I'll help ya out.  To be perfectly honest, and this is because I like ya cause I think you're a cool guy, you may not survive the process for very long, but you will be deprogrammed.  And if you survive, there is a high chance that your mind may never be the same again.

Sounds like some of the wilder nights in my teenage years! (After which my mind was never the same...)

Nah, I like my sense of Canadian identity, and I do exaggerate slightly, but it is interesting to reflect on the significance and effects of childhood education later in life.

I love the NFB and similar institutions that define Canadian culture, most of it is pretty "hokey" but it's ours.

EDIT: the Google ads we're getting on this thread are too funny, check this one out:

Canadamigos Network
Friendhsip and Travel A new trilingual social network.

Canadamigos!  (note the misspelling of Friendship)

Ahhh, all cool then.  But if ever you wanna just break the psychological bonds of indoctrination, let me know.  :-D  I've been trying to perfect the process on myself for 7 years.  I've had some successes, but not many.

Although, to be perfectly honest, the closest I ever got to a full blown breakthrough was when I was part of the Federation's R&D team that was developing the Tribble Torpedo, and I thought that tribbles might help provide a key to my private work.  But then the R&D team accidentally created the character of Undercover Brother, and further research was abandoned. 

Personally, I was laughing too hard to continue working on the project afterwards.

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

Yes, because every white American can spell every word in the English language correctly.

There are more than three times the number of characters in the Cherokee syllabary than in the English alphabet. Also, Cherokee doesnt even use the sounds of several English consonants, so there are no corresponding letters. That means that spelling it correctly in "English" becomes more important. Correctly pronouncing, or spelling, certain words can mean the difference between getting a laugh or getting your teeth knocked out.

[Lepton]

Proabably, but if we keep the discussion academic and not political...

Here in Canada we Have two official languages: English and French.

I always found it strange that the United States does not have two official languages: English and Spanish.

I think the proportion of Spanish speakers in the US is similar the the proportion of French speakers in Canada?

Generally it is a good thing to have two official languages for all federal services. It makes work and creates employment opportunities, and serves the public far more efficiently.

I've tried to help Spanish people on the phone, it would be much easier if I spoke Spanish.  Same goes for French (though I understand way more French). Think of the increase in efficiency, I understand that over 33% of the United States speaks Spanish as their first language. Imagine how much faster federal public services could run if the employees could effectively communicate with their clients (citizens).

So am I to understand that currently the United States does not have an official language at all? I suppose you could leave it that way and leave the options for languages in federal public services open. Though it would probably serve the US as well as it has Canada to support two official languages.

The English won in both North and South America, defeating the French in the North and Spanish in the south (or just making better colonisation choices). It's a compromise. A conquered people will suffer their fate much more pleasantly if their culture is recognised and supported.

Seems like a lot of fuss over a pretty simple issue from a Canadian perspective. Bilingualism is part of Canadian cultural identity, I don't see why it cannot be part of the American Cultural identity (well it already is, there is just this little issue of denial here...).

I have been to the United states twice, once to Boston which is very much like home in Eastern Canada, and I have also been to San Francisco, which struck me as a very different culture, the place names alone indicated the difference, much as in Quebec here in Canada.

I think the comparison of the two countries in this respect boils down to the difference in the philosophies of "Multiculturalism" versus "The Melting Pot". Both have their advantages but I think time has proven multiculturalism to be less idealistic, more practical and thus more successful.

Here's a hokey hockey analogy: "We're on the same team, just different strings". 

EDIT: LOL! We're getting Canadian Immigration Google ads on this thread now... Cool!    C'mon up! We don't speak Spanish but we do have two official langages!

The original poster did not offer it is an academic discussion.  It's jingoist, inflammatory rhetoric.  Put this dung in H&S.

[Bonk]

The original poster did not offer it is an academic discussion.  It's jingoist, inflammatory rhetoric.  Put this dung in H&S.

I realise that, however the original post is the only such post in the thread. I cannot move threads.

I thought I'd take the opportunity to present my view on the lack of recognition of the large proportion of the United States that speaks Spanish as their first language.

I think our discussion since has been quite civilised and academic. Such discussions do not belong in H&S (nor do I want my posts there if the thread is moved).

I recommend that the original post be truncated to before the rant begins, just cut it off after the presentation of the vote on the issue. To be honest, that is where I stopped reading and started posting. I still have not read past the first two paragraphs of the original post, and I do not plan to!   

[Centurus]

Yes, because every white American can spell every word in the English language correctly.

There are more than three times the number of characters in the Cherokee syllabary than in the English alphabet. Also, Cherokee doesnt even use the sounds of several English consonants, so there are no corresponding letters. That means that spelling it correctly in "English" becomes more important. Correctly pronouncing, or spelling, certain words can mean the difference between getting a laugh or getting your teeth knocked out.

Ahhh, but you forgot something there GMoS.  It can also help prevent you getting a laugh WHILE getting your teeth knocked out.   

[KOTH-KieranXC, Ret.]

Yes, because every white American can spell every word in the English language correctly.

There are more than three times the number of characters in the Cherokee syllabary than in the English alphabet. Also, Cherokee doesnt even use the sounds of several English consonants, so there are no corresponding letters. That means that spelling it correctly in "English" becomes more important. Correctly pronouncing, or spelling, certain words can mean the difference between getting a laugh or getting your teeth knocked out.

Ah. Well, that I can understand. I studied Russian for a couple of years, and it's the same way. There's letters in Russian that have no equivalent (and a couple that also make no sound, just govern pronunciation of the prior letter). There's also some instances where you move an accent mark around and you have a completely different word. Which also can mean the difference between a laugh and a missing tooth.

[KOTH-KieranXC, Ret.]

Also, in response to the OP... While I personally don't like the spread of Spanish and the reason it's become more prevalent(illegal immigrants that don't learn English) I agree with those that said we've been fine up to this point without an official language. Hell, there was a motion in the early 20th century to make German the official language, because there were so many German speakers in the country, but that also fell through.

[Just plain old Punisher]

What's the point? It's not like passing this law would suddenly force everyone to speak english anymore than saying the pledge of alliegance would instill patriotism in our children.

This sort of thing is the standard knee-jerk fear response against immigration.

This is America, people can speak whatever language they want.

[marstone]

What's the point? It's not like passing this law would suddenly force everyone to speak English anymore than saying the pledge of allegiance would instill patriotism in our children.

This sort of thing is the standard knee-jerk fear response against immigration.

This is America, people can speak whatever language they want.

The major point of it would be, how many different languages would government forms have to be printed in.  If we have an official language (and part of the test to become a citizen is to speak English), then all forms from the government would be printed in that language.  (If I moved to my wifes country of  Mexico and demanded government forms in English so I can read them, they would laugh at me).  It comes down to how many times does the same piece of paper have to be printed in how many languages (it adds up to a lot of expense).  With an official language of the country, you print in that language only.

IF you run the idea that you are in America and you can speak any language you want, how would a city like New York run with so many different ethnic groups.  Imagine the Job requirements to be a police officer in New York under that way of thinking.

"Wanted Peace Officer that speaks 30 languages fluently, to include, Mandarin, Mexican (I don't have the curlie cue to type Espaniol), Spanish, Gaelic, German, Slavic, Russian,Farsie, to name a few).  One of the first things needed to get along is the ability to communicate, if everyone did there own thing, it falls apart.

Oh, just a pointer on the immigration thing.  My wife is first Generation, I am only third.  And Happy St. Patties day all.

[Centurus]

What's the point? It's not like passing this law would suddenly force everyone to speak English anymore than saying the pledge of allegiance would instill patriotism in our children.

This sort of thing is the standard knee-jerk fear response against immigration.

This is America, people can speak whatever language they want.

The major point of it would be, how many different languages would government forms have to be printed in.  If we have an official language (and part of the test to become a citizen is to speak English), then all forms from the government would be printed in that language.  (If I moved to my wifes country of  Mexico and demanded government forms in English so I can read them, they would laugh at me).  It comes down to how many times does the same piece of paper have to be printed in how many languages (it adds up to a lot of expense).  With an official language of the country, you print in that language only.

IF you run the idea that you are in America and you can speak any language you want, how would a city like New York run with so many different ethnic groups.  Imagine the Job requirements to be a police officer in New York under that way of thinking.

"Wanted Peace Officer that speaks 30 languages fluently, to include, Mandarin, Mexican (I don't have the curlie cue to type Espaniol), Spanish, Gaelic, German, Slavic, Russian,Farsie, to name a few).  One of the first things needed to get along is the ability to communicate, if everyone did there own thing, it falls apart.

Oh, just a pointer on the immigration thing.  My wife is first Generation, I am only third.  And Happy St. Patties day all.

Mexican is an ethnic group.  Spanish is the language Mexican's speak.  Other than that, you got some great points.

[marstone]

Mexican is an ethnic group.  Spanish is the language Mexican's speak.  Other than that, you got some great points.

True, as I tried to spell it, Mexican Spanish is Espanol (been way to long since I have seen it).  The reason I put it that way is because, Spain Spanish and Mexican Spanish are two different languages.  If you speak one you can understand the other (with some oddities to it).  I have studies a little Spain Spanish (I can't even get close to spelling what it is called, I can say it but can't spell it.  It is like Castelyano, named after an area of Spain).  The Hispanic people of this area (way up north, North Dakota actually) refer to there language as Mexican so i do also.  So does my wife, ref my last post (first generation).

But I shan't ague this point beyond here.  I think to many people get caught up in the little parts, to truly talk over the larger issue. 

I just like to say, we can't separate our country down ethnic lines (we have way to many).  Part of being the melting pot of the world is to blend together to make a stronger whole.  IF you want to make steel reinforced concrete you don't keep the parts separate as they are weaker that way, they are used togeather to make a stronger whole.

Oh, last point on language, imagine how much fun it would be on Dynaverse if everyone used a different language to post.  You would end up with each message only being looked at and commented on by a smaller part of the whole.  Not effective to a discussion.  Common language, ideas can flow.

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

I think that there should be only one language used for govt documents. If immigrants, legal or otherwise, learned English, it would make their integration into America smoother. It would be easier for a small group of people to learn English than for Americans to have to learn the top five immigrant languages. Think of all the civil servants who would have to learn multiple languages. Police officers, firemen, EMTs, judges, etc, etc. Would you have to pick juries who could speak the language of the defendants?

If you want to keep America divided then lets have several languages. Americans can then refer to immigrants as "those people" the way whites used to refer to Natives, Japanese, the Irish, etc. THe best way to foster hate is to keep people seperated.

[Just plain old Punisher]

The major point of it would be, how many different languages would government forms have to be printed in.  If we have an official language (and part of the test to become a citizen is to speak English), then all forms from the government would be printed in that language.  (If I moved to my wifes country of  Mexico and demanded government forms in English so I can read them, they would laugh at me).  It comes down to how many times does the same piece of paper have to be printed in how many languages (it adds up to a lot of expense).  With an official language of the country, you print in that language only.

In general, when there are over a certain number of people who speak a given language as their primary language living in an area, government forms/applications/ballots are made available in that language. This is not about people refusing to learn english -- even if they've been studing english for years they will always think/speak best in their native tongue. When we're talking about important documents like ballots or tax forms, for the purposes of comprehension it often makes sense to print them in multiple languages.

IF you run the idea that you are in America and you can speak any language you want, how would a city like New York run with so many different ethnic groups.  Imagine the Job requirements to be a police officer in New York under that way of thinking.

"Wanted Peace Officer that speaks 30 languages fluently, to include, Mandarin, Mexican (I don't have the curlie cue to type Espaniol), Spanish, Gaelic, German, Slavic, Russian,Farsie, to name a few).  One of the first things needed to get along is the ability to communicate, if everyone did there own thing, it falls apart.

That isn't a reasonable expectation, but you must admit, if you're working in a city like new york, and you speak more than one language -- that's going to make your job a whole lot easier. Police officers deal with the public, and if a signifigant percentage of that public speaks a language other than english, I think its a good idea for those officers to at least have a basic grasp of it. It's already a requirment in high school for graduation that you take at least 2 years of a foriegn language. In fact, it's common in many places around the world for the average citizen to speak multiple languages.

[Bonk]

I think that there should be only one language used for govt documents. If immigrants, legal or otherwise, learned English, it would make their integration into America smoother. It would be easier for a small group of people to learn English than for Americans to have to learn the top five immigrant languages.

This I can agree with, as it makes sense whether the decision is for a single official language or several.

Think of all the civil servants who would have to learn multiple languages. Police officers, firemen, EMTs, judges, etc, etc. Would you have to pick juries who could speak the language of the defendants?

Oh wait, I see, you're thinking differently. Such services are not federal in Canada are not not guaranteed to be bilingual. (With the RCMP as the exception as a national police force - local municipal police are not necessarily bilingual - similarly, only federal courts are assured bilingual - I'm sure provincial courts and municipal courts regularly enlist the services of translators) I'm talking about federal offices where you line up for service. It can only speed things up to have federal offices handle English and Spanish. Additionally it is pretty easy to hire a few Spanish speakers to work behind those federal desks, no need to send existing employees to be taught Spanish, just get a portion of Bilingual federal employees at the normal staff turnover rate. Simple.

If you want to keep America divided then lets have several languages. Americans can then refer to immigrants as "those people" the way whites used to refer to Natives, Japanese, the Irish, etc. THe best way to foster hate is to keep people seperated.

That however, I would consider an exaggeration or at the very least inflammatory. Why do I think so? Two official languages in Canada does not foster hate at all. In general it is a source of pride for most Canadians. Yes, there is some occasional abrasion, but we always work it out civilly. We have two Official Languages in Canada but keep no one separated based on language. (pot smokers are, but that is a somewhat different issue)

I don't think anyone is suggesting multiple official languages, just English and Spanish, which acknowledges the reality of the demands on your federal public services.

It was funny, last night on Family Guy this was exactly the issue. (well Mexican Immigration was) Anyway, I laughed my ass off as Peter made a great motivational speech that realistically assessed the value of immigration in America, the funny part was this little Latin voice pipes up at the end of the speech and says: "Great speech, but could you repeat the whole thing in Spanish please?". I got a good laugh out of that as it so accurately sums it up.

It just seems odd to me that this is such a big isue for Americans. Again, from a Canadian perspective it is a very simple matter. I think perhaps the difference is that French represents no direct threat to Canada as it is unlikely that our resources would be threatened by France expanding into our territory. Where Spanish does represent a threat to Americans as there is real competition for resources with Mexico? (that's kind of a wild guess)

I suggest exactly the opposite, that by recognising the reality of the situation that two official languages of English and Spanish would serve the public most effectively and efficiently then I think that Spanish speaking Americans would feel very welcome and part of an America they can be proud of.

Again, I must emphasise that is just my view of it as a Canadian. Perhaps there are other issues in the US that make it different from Canada when it comes to efficiency and effectiveness of federal public services.

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

I know that around here, in North Carolina, they are having real difficulty finding translators for our courts. Large groups of Spanish speaking people moving into this area has only happened in the last few years. People have spoken French in Canada for centuries.

Large areas in the US are segregated by language. When you arent exposed to a people on a regular basis, it breeds suspicion. People tend to stay in areas where they are comfortable. When new immigrants move here they tend to stay in areas where their native language is spoken. Once they learn the dominant language, they move out of those areas and become integrated.

[Bonk]

Large groups of Spanish speaking people moving into this area has only happened in the last few years. People have spoken French in Canada for centuries.

Very good point. I think that is the main difference between the US and Canada on this issue that I failed to recognise.

However, I do believe that in the entire US that the proportion of people with Spanish as a first language has been well over 30% for at least a few decades. (I have no source on that but could dig up an actual statistic if needed)

It is interesting how the colonisation decisions of France, Britain and Spain have played out here in North America. If you guys had duked it out with the Spanish like we did with the French here, then our perspectives on this issue would probably much closer. (Wait, it seems to me there was, however there was no single decisive battle that resulted in Mexico coming under British colonial rule, like what happened here at the Plains of Abraham.)

Heh,heh... if GeneralWolfe (AKA DonDawson) was lurking in this thread I bet his knickers would be in a real knot! 

Large areas in the US are segregated by language. When you arent exposed to a people on a regular basis, it breeds suspicion. People tend to stay in areas where they are comfortable. When new immigrants move here they tend to stay in areas where their native language is spoken. Once they learn the dominant language, they move out of those areas and become integrated.

That's no good. Sounds like the "Melting Pot" has failed there. Perhaps Canadian style "multiculturalism" would be more successful at including and integrating the richness of other cultures to strengthen and diversify American culture?

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

Large groups of Spanish speaking people moving into this area has only happened in the last few years. People have spoken French in Canada for centuries.

Very good point. I think that is the main difference between the US and Canada on this issue that I failed to recognise.

However, I do believe that in the entire US that the proportion of people with Spanish as a first language has been well over 30% for at least a few decades. (I have no source on that but could dig up an actual statistic if needed)

It is interesting how the colonisation decisions of France, Britain and Spain have played out here in North America. If you guys had duked it out with the Spanish like we did with the French here, then our perspectives on this issue would probably much closer. (Wait, it seems to me there was, however there was no single decisive battle that resulted in Mexico coming under British colonial rule, like what happened here at the Plains of Abraham.)

Heh,heh... if GeneralWolfe (AKA DonDawson) was lurking in this thread I bet his knickers would be in a real knot! 

Most of those areas were in the Southwest. Only recently have Spanish speaking people been "spreading out" and that with the influx of illegals comming from Mexico, Central and South America. I know that I heard Vietnamese here long before I heard Spanish.

Large areas in the US are segregated by language. When you arent exposed to a people on a regular basis, it breeds suspicion. People tend to stay in areas where they are comfortable. When new immigrants move here they tend to stay in areas where their native language is spoken. Once they learn the dominant language, they move out of those areas and become integrated.

That's no good. Sounds like the "Melting Pot" has failed there. Perhaps Canadian style "multiculturalism" would be more successful at including and integrating the richness of other cultures to strengthen and diversify American culture?

The melting pot works as long as both sides want the integration. Unfortunately, it seems to me, and to alot of Americans actually, that the illegals dont want to integrate. They seem to want to make alot of money, as compared to wages in their native countries, and return home or at least to send the money "home". One of the largest sources of capital comming into Mexico isnt through trade, its through money being sent back. A very large portion of the Mexican economy is based upon money flowing from the US to Mexico.

I dont think we should accomodate people who dont want to become Americans.

[marstone]

The melting pot works as long as both sides want the integration. Unfortunately, it seems to me, and to alot of Americans actually, that the illegals dont want to integrate. They seem to want to make alot of money, as compared to wages in their native countries, and return home or at least to send the money "home". One of the largest sources of capital comming into Mexico isnt through trade, its through money being sent back. A very large portion of the Mexican economy is based upon money flowing from the US to Mexico.

I dont think we should accomodate people who dont want to become Americans.

I will agree with not accomodating the people who don't want to become an American Citizen.  The problem with the politican side of this is that those of us who speak out against illigall imigration have the blanket thrown over us labeling us as anti-imigration.  Immigration has been the life blood of the US in building up a good good diversity of people.  But there are rules to follow.  No other country just lets anyone in at anytime, you apply, stand in line, follow the rules.  Just wish people would quit lumping these two different sides togeather.

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

The melting pot works as long as both sides want the integration. Unfortunately, it seems to me, and to alot of Americans actually, that the illegals dont want to integrate. They seem to want to make alot of money, as compared to wages in their native countries, and return home or at least to send the money "home". One of the largest sources of capital comming into Mexico isnt through trade, its through money being sent back. A very large portion of the Mexican economy is based upon money flowing from the US to Mexico.

I dont think we should accomodate people who dont want to become Americans.

I will agree with not accomodating the people who don't want to become an American Citizen.  The problem with the politican side of this is that those of us who speak out against illigall imigration have the blanket thrown over us labeling us as anti-imigration.  Immigration has been the life blood of the US in building up a good good diversity of people.  But there are rules to follow.  No other country just lets anyone in at anytime, you apply, stand in line, follow the rules.  Just wish people would quit lumping these two different sides togeather.

I agree. Im very much against illegal immigration, whether from Mexico, Canada, or any other country.

[Pestalence_XC]

My wife is Bilingual.. I speak english only.. My wife is Mexican Decent.. I am Italian Decent (Sicilian actually).. and I can't speak a word of Italian. and I'm 2nd generation.

My Father-N-Law was born in Monterey, Mexico.. came to the US illegally 2 times, deported 2 times, then went through proper channels and got residency.. He then worked on learning English to get his citizenship.. He has been a US Citizen for 7 years now...

My wife, as a child, grew up in a home that spoke nothing but Spanish.. she learned a few words from her mother for English when she was about 4 or 5 years old.. just enough to understand school..

Her mother grew up in Houston and Seguin, TX as a 1st Generation descendant for Illegal Migrant workers.. My Mother-N-Law was born in Seguin and was as such, a US Citizen.. and her first language was Spanish.. but in her home as my wife grew up.. Spanish became less and less and English took over, especially when my wife had 2 younger sisters going to school also.. her dad felt alienated.. but also realized that in order to conduct business, even in a Mexican populated town like Seguin, where 84% of the population is Hispanic, you have to speak and read and write English to get by.. sure most restaurants are Mexican and you hear Spanish everywhere.. but when you go to Wal-Mart.. very few employees speak Spanish... just like the Auto-Parts stores.. maybe 1 in 7 employees can speak Spanish fluently enough to help Spanish Speaking Only customers.. Most of which have either Residency cards or no ID at all.. Almost every Hispanic person living here that has a valid Texas Drivers License speaks English well enough to conduct business or give directions.. not all but most...

Needless to say, by Wife's first language was Spanish for almost 7 years of her life.. however she thinks in English.. and she can speak Spanish very well.. however I wouldn't say Fluent ... Most Hispanic people here, unless they are just arriving or are 1st to 2nd generation (and most times not even that far), thinks in English.. This is from personal experience...

I have been in many circumstances where I was working construction and the people I hire were Mexican or Hispanic and they acted like they barely knew English... but when it came to the first pay day and I purposely misprinted their checks for improper amounts.. Just to test a theory... 99% of my Hispanic employees all of a sudden knew how to speak English perfectly... or at least well enough to let me know I miscalculated their checks.. the one's who couldn't speak English or understand English.. I corrected their checks later that afternoon...

but the point is that in order to conduct business you need to understand English, Write English and Read English, even in this Hispanic town or else you won't make it financially.. At least that it is down here in Texas in the area where I live...

Should the US have a National Language.. You bet... there are small towns in California and Texas, New Mexico, Florida (Cuban.. namely downtown Miami) where English is the 2nd language.. however, the rest of the country, English is the primary language.. If it is standardized by law across the board.. not only would Spanish speaking people have to learn English.. but all immigrants coming into the US legally... it would increase the chances of getting a job and so forth.. People would be able to read Street and Warning signs, read a road map, etc.. without getting confused, or worse, causing an accident.. there would be no barriers in conducting business, reading legal forms, etc.. no need for translators except for those who are just learning English... Plus it would make it much harder for Illegal Immigrants to get things done in the US... hopefully making them pursue becoming legal residents that are taxed like the rest of us.. contribute back into the economy they are leaching off of... See if they go to Food Stamps, Housing Authority, Medicad, Wellfare, WIC, etc and can't speak or read English, if there are not any translators, no documents in Spanish or any other language, forcing a language barrier on to stuff like Western Union Money Grams, Drivers License, Court, Hospitals, Etc... then it would be much easier to eliminate illegal aliens in this country and maybe our economy can improve some... making things less hospitable for illegals to where they don't want to come to our country illegally.. this goes for all nationalities.. I'm just using Hispanic as a popular reference.. but the point is clear... It isn't hard to become a US Citizen.. but it does take an effort to show that you want to be a US Citizen and as such becoming an American... Illegals don't want to become Americans.. they just want to send money to their families in their native country and leach our resources and get reduced cost or free services that the rest of us, the Tax Payers, have to dish out money for... and I for one have a hard enough time supporting my family, I don't need to support people who don't want to become a productive American Citizen with my hard earned money.

[marstone]

I follow that Pesty, my wife spoke spanish only until she was 9, now she speaks almost no spanish, speak English so fluent that if you talked to her on the phone you wouldn't think she had any Mexican in her.  I myself am barely Unilingual. My son now speaks English, French, and a spatering of Spanish.  It is a good thing overall.

[Age]

I know that around here, in North Carolina, they are having real difficulty finding translators for our courts. Large groups of Spanish speaking people moving into this area has only happened in the last few years. People have spoken French in Canada for centuries.

Large areas in the US are segregated by language. When you arent exposed to a people on a regular basis, it breeds suspicion. People tend to stay in areas where they are comfortable. When new immigrants move here they tend to stay in areas where their native language is spoken. Once they learn the dominant language, they move out of those areas and become integrated.

People have spoken French in Canada for centuries.

This is true but after a few years not many of us do  and I only know about 5 to 6 % of it.Where I live on the west coast the second language is Chinese next to Indian and now Islamic or Iranian.

I agree. Im very much against illegal immigration, whether from Mexico, Canada, or any other country.

I doubt you would see any Canadians cross into the US illegally and why would they.

Originally Posted by Kapitän Kieran

Yes, because every white American can spell every word in the English language correctly.

No you don't as you spell it honor as it is honour or color as it is colour as in Oxford dictionary not Websters.I am part English after all.

[Bonk]

I know that around here, in North Carolina, they are having real difficulty finding translators for our courts. Large groups of Spanish speaking people moving into this area has only happened in the last few years. People have spoken French in Canada for centuries.

On further rumination of this point... come to think of it the French were here in Canada before the British (Port Royal). And before them the Norse, and before them the Mi'kmaq, Beotuk, Inuit...  BUT there simply are not enough Norwegian or Native language speakers here in Canada to merit inclusion as an official language. (With Nunavut as a special case) So really, it is not a question of the length of time here, but the proportion of the population that makes including a second (or third) official language worthwhile for efficiency and cultural health.

My wife is Bilingual.. I speak english only..

Thanks for sharing that Pestalence, an illuminating story, it sounds like you're a lucky guy!    (Bilingual wife...)

I agree. Im very much against illegal immigration, whether from Mexico, Canada, or any other country.

I doubt you would see any Canadians cross into the US illegally and why would they.

Right you are Age... in fact the opposite is more likely in my view. But that is neither here nor there...

So, I take it the main objection/issue with Spanish as an official second language in the US is that it is tightly tied to illegal immigration in people's minds so much so that the issue cannot be separated?

Just for the sake of argument, lets pretend that all Mexican immigrants are completely legit, they can all speak enough English to get by, yet all still have Spanish as a first language. Would the majority of Americans still object to including Spanish in the official Languages of the United states? (In such a scenario it would still increase efficiency and probably save money in the long run and enrich the American culture)

Of all the biblical myths, the story of the Tower of Babel always rang true to me. the others being the "pain of childbirth" and being "made in his image", unified in language and free of borders, no doubt we would rival the power of our creator.

Lol, here's a good idea, deport illegal Mexican immigrants to Canada! We'll take them! Somehow I think that might not be what they had in mind but I bet most would be happy here once they got used to the winter. Birth rates are an issue in Canada, we must maintain immigration rates to survive.

Actually check this out:

In Canada, official languages is a matter of service to the public and employees within institutions subject to the Official Languages Act;it's also a matter of language of work.

The Official Languages Branch is responsible for overseeing that federal institutions serve Canadians in the official language of their choice, create and maintain a work environment conducive to the effective use of both official languages, and provide equal employment and advancement opportunities to English-speaking and French-speaking Canadians within the Public Service.

The Official Languages Branch also supports the work of Canadian Heritage to enhance the vitality of the official language minority communities and supporting and assisting their development; and fostering the full recognition and use of English and French in Canadian society.

http://www.psagency-agencefp.gc.ca/ollo/index-sm_e.asp

So the official line matches my interpretation. I just read that now after posting my views above, reinforcing the logic. I think a key point to note is the obligation of a nation to protect the culture of its minorities ultimately to the benefit to the nation as a whole. I just have a really hard time to see it any other way.

Just found this link...:
http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/lo-ol/biling/hist_e.cfm

1969 - New Brunswick enacts its first Official Languages Act , making it Canada 's first, and only, officially bilingual province.

Not Quebec, most interesting...

And the current provincial act:
http://www.gnb.ca/acts/acts/o-00-5.htm

So that's how it plays out in detail for those interested. Not so bad at all.

You know what's funny? As a kid I learned a lot of French from bilingual packaging of products, I always read both sides of the cereal box...  (and the ingredients in both languages too being good little geek...)

[KOTH-KieranXC, Ret.]

Originally Posted by Kapitän Kieran

Yes, because every white American can spell every word in the English language correctly.

No you don't as you spell it honor as it is honour or color as it is colour as in Oxford dictionary not Websters.I am part English after all.

Um, well, in America that is the correct spelling. American English is different from British English, and just because we spell a few words differently doesn't make it wrong. I don't tell you you spell honor and color incorrectly, so spare me.

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

I doubt you would see any Canadians cross into the US illegally and why would they.

This is a few years old and from a Canadian source.

In addition to Mexico, six countries had more than 100,000 unauthorized
residents in the United States in January 2000 --El Salvador, Guatemala, Colombia, Honduras,
China, and Ecuador. In its 1996 estimates of illegal immigrants, Canadians ranked 4th with an
estimated figure of 120,000 persons behind Mexico, El Salvador and Guatemala but ahead of
ahead of Haiti, Philippines and Honduras.

http://www.acs-aec.ca/oldsite/Polls/Poll29.pdf