Topic: Video Card Question from One Out of the Market for a While

[E_Look]

I haven't shopped for a vid card in a long time now, and I don't know what's good, bad, ugly, fast, slow, or medium.

To be more precise, my son needs an upgrade from his ATI Radeon 9500 so he can play Call of Duty 4.

I thought about throwing in maybe another 512 stick of RAM in his computer, but he's adamant that the video card is way outdated.  I suspect he may be right.

So, what do any of you gents think is decent recent vid card that'll handle the graphics requirements of that game?  I'm not looking for any ueber card... nor am I looking for one that has one foot in obsolescence, as the card he has now is most likely obsolete.

So, thanks beforehand, folks!

[Dash Jones]

I believe his card IS way outdated.

Try something such as the Nvidia GeForce 8600.  Not really expensive, however, still on the edge of the game arena.  Biggest problem is I don't know if it will actually fit into the motherboard of your son's machine.

[E_Look]

If it's available as an AGP card, why not?

Ah, I see; the 8000 series is not available with the AGP bus.

Well then, what about the nVidia GeForce 7000 series cards?...

... or even the 6000 series?

[Javora]

I agree that the video card is outdated but I'm not sure how much you want to spend on it as you never specified a price.  Since I really don't think that you will be installing MS Vista on the machine I wouldn't suggest a latest greatest video card anyway.  I'm not sure you're going to find a 8600 Nvidia card for the AGP slot, I know there has been talk about it but I haven't seen any yet.  For Nvidia that leaves the mid-range 7600 series cards but remember that those cards will be as outdated as MS XP is now.  For ATI you might have a little better luck if you ever want to load Vista on your system.  I found a couple of cards that might be what you are looking for given the computers age:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130076

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16814102718

Given the features of the cards I would probably go with the ATI card this time around even though the ATI card is a little more expensive.  Hope this helps.

[Don Karnage]

http://www.cipc.com/particulier/produits/6714/

http://www.cipc.com/particulier/produits/7781/

http://www.cipc.com/particulier/produits/7558/

http://www.cipc.com/particulier/produits/Carte+Video/ATI/ATI+Radeon/

that's all i have to link, the price are in Canadian $$

[E_Look]

Hey thanks, guys.

Don, thanks for the range of cards.

Jav, hey, it's been awhile!

And from what little I've seen poking about just now, I'm inclined to agree that the ATI might be more bang for the buck.

But boy, am I out of it!  I was thinking that a midrange card would be BETWEEN $50 and $80 USD.

[Don Karnage]

well at lest you know what are available for agp and the ram for the price.

i can ask the com shop what best card will be for the game tomorrow, i still need to call them for my com and see if i will need to replace what if its not warranty .

[Dracho]

I just bought 2 ATi HD2600XT cards on eBay.  one for $90 one for $150 ( I plan to run them crossfire).  I think there is an AGP version of that card.

[Javora]

I just bought 2 ATi HD2600XT cards on eBay.  one for $90 one for $150 ( I plan to run them crossfire).  I think there is an AGP version of that card.

There is, in fact the second link I posted points to a 2600XT.  The price on Newegg is for $114.99USD

[Javora]

Hey thanks, guys.

Don, thanks for the range of cards.

Jav, hey, it's been awhile!

And from what little I've seen poking about just now, I'm inclined to agree that the ATI might be more bang for the buck.

But boy, am I out of it!  I was thinking that a midrange card would be BETWEEN $50 and $80 USD.

Good seeing you again to Ed.  I was thinking ATI would be your best bet but I don't like to play favorites with video cards and the Nvidia card was a little cheaper.  I wish midrange cards were between $50 and $80 dollars, video card makers aren't that generous...   

[Lloyd007]

It's tough to find anything AGP anymore. The tech is at least one year out of date. As for what cards... the Radeon 9800pro if it's still found anywhere was a seriously good card and would be a step up from the 9500.

Although you might seriously want to consider upgrading the whole system to PCIe rather than spending $50-100 on a system that will be hopeless for current games in the near future.

[Don Karnage]

i was looking for info for my monitor and found that

[E_Look]

It's tough to find anything AGP anymore. The tech is at least one year out of date. As for what cards... the Radeon 9800pro if it's still found anywhere was a seriously good card and would be a step up from the 9500.

Although you might seriously want to consider upgrading the whole system to PCIe rather than spending $50-100 on a system that will be hopeless for current games in the near future.

Yipes, Lloyd!  It's a kid's... okay, a teen's... system.  I don't want to replace it with later technology because of this as reason 1.  Reason 2: after I built it for him, I told him that if he ever wanted another or a newer system, he'd have to finance it himself.  And reason 3: if I did, the other one's going to demand, "Hey where's mine?!"

The 9800 pro is still around, but scarcer and scarcer... and still expensive.


Don, yeah, I know that one; it's only marginally better than the one he's got in his system at present.  It might not be worth spending $30-$50 US for it.  Instead, with a bit more, I can get him one that might last just a bit longer, in terms of usability.

[Don Karnage]

for a video card it can last a good 2 years but the problem is if you want a new game, it might be mostly you're cpu is too weak and need more ram, some will required a new video card but is the game worth it?

since i don't really buy new games i never need to change my system, mostly the prices of the games and is the game worth to buy or when you play you find that its not as fun.

if there was a place where you could try the games and see if it was good, but i never heard of a place like that and they should have one.

sure i will upgrade my com just so i can play that game and find out its not as fun or full of bug that you need to get more patch and finally the game can't be play because its not ready or will not work on you're com for some mysterious reason.

if game producer where serious when developing games more peoples would buy them.

[E_Look]

Ah, he's got the Athlon XP Barton chip; it runs at 1.83 GHz.  It should be a sufficient CPU even for new games, as most of the processing takes place in the GPU of the video card, as far as I understand things.

It was such a great chip at the time!

[Don Karnage]

what is the diference betwen the agp and cpi video card?

[E_Look]

You mean pci or pci-express?

They are different bus types; or different connectors to the data routes on the motherboard to the CPU, etc.

[Don Karnage]

i know they don't have the same connector but is one better that the other or its the same?

[E_Look]

Oh, forget about it!  PCI-e is much better than AGP; it has a higher throughput for the signal than AGP (allows it to be faster).

[Don Karnage]

thanks, i will rememeber that when i get a new com, one that it will be build not a use one.

[Dracho]

PCI-Express also allows 16-bit commmunication up-and-down the channel, between 2 locations, which is why 2 cards in Crossfire or SLI mode are able to work.

IMHO PCI-e doesn't really "shine" until you're dealing with multiple graphics cards.

[Don Karnage]

what will you do with 2 graphic card?

[Dracho]

I use 2 HD2600 XT cards in Crossfire mode, which basically lets the 2 cards act as one "supercard".  They split the load between themselves and will run far more detail far faster than a single card alone.


http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_sli2007.html

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=14474

[Don Karnage]

seem good, so you need to identical card for that?

[Dracho]

For crossfire the cards need to be in the same "family".  You can match a 2600 X with a 2600 pro, for instance.

With SLI, cards must be identical, and one card must be an SLI edition.

[Don Karnage]

how doest it work?, how the card work together?

[Dracho]

Well, that depends (of course)..

Some models require an internal cable between cards, some require an external cable, and the X1600 family uses software.

If you click the second link I gave you, that's actually a several page article that goes into some depth about the differences between SLI  (Nvidia) & Crossfire (ATI) and how they work.

[Don Karnage]

so you use that for a game that required a lot of graphic, is it good for sfc?

[E_Look]

Hey, about those ATI Radeon HD 2600XT cards- is there really that much of a performance difference between the 256 MB and the 512 MB versions?

[Javora]

Hey, about those ATI Radeon HD 2600XT cards- is there really that much of a performance difference between the 256 MB and the 512 MB versions?

I don't think there is a difference but others may disagree.  But given the machine you are planning on putting that card in I wouldn't worry about that extra 256 MB of Ram on a video card.

[Dracho]

I think the bigger difference is to get one with DDR3 or DDR4, instead of DDR2.  Where 512 comes in is if you have an explosion with smoke or something, it might be a tad smoother.

I am running a 939 board, so I am going to have a 128 memory bottleneck regardless.   That's part of why I decided not to splurge on a Hd 2900.

[Lloyd007]

Having enormous amounts of memory is useful for the special bells and whistles that require lots of textures and blooms and such at 1600x1200 with full AA, AF and etc. I got the 320mb version of the 8800gts and so far I've yet to meet a game that slows my card down (except Supreme Commander with thousands of units on screen but from what I gather even the best vid card struggles with that game).

[Pestalence_XC]

Why crossfire ATI cards .. you only get the same performance as 1 NVidia 8800 GTX card.. the GTX 8800 I am getting with my taxes is running twin 626 Mhs GPU's at 128 but thru put taking 1 PCIe slot and has 740 MB gDDR3 memory.. then you can connect SLI for 2 cards if you have 2 PCIe slots.. makes Radeon look like kids cards..

Also Radeon is having trouble with the newer systems like Vista systems, where NVidia is built and designed for Intel and Microsoft.. Radeon is designed for AMD and has trouble with support for Vista and some XP system configs.. Case in point.. I have an ATI All In Wonder 2006 x1300 card.. Vista supports the GPU and gDDR2 memory but the TV Tuner does not work on Vista and ATI refuses to support the card and it is not even 14 months old..

However my sister has a NVidia Geforce 7600 PCIe running about the same specs (GPU is a little faster) and it wnet into the vista machine without having to install drivers.. flawless.. the haupauge TV Tuner card worked just fine as well..

ATI has not yet answered my service tickets as to why they won't support the card I paid $215.99 for...

The only thing I have to do to my system with my new card coming up is upgrade the power supply.. and I am getting an Ultimate SLI ready 750w power supply for $79

I don't mind ATI except their history of lack of support and poor drivers... that is something Nvidia hardly ever has...

The customer support I have recieved from ATI has made me vow to never buy their faulty equipment ever again.

the All In Wonder card above was even broke for XP.. they never supported full channel functionality of the card )channels would not tune in) and the card was supposedly XPSP 2 MCE 2005 designed.. but it never worked correctly.. out of the 4000 service tickets ATI recieved on the issue, it was still never fixed after a year and a half...

that is customer service for you..

their latest response to me was to buy another vid card if you can believe that.. so I am.. NVidia !!!
 

[Bonk]

Video cards are like cars. Buying the latest model new is a complete ripoff. Look at 2 year and older technology only. At this point the advances in two years are not significant compared to the overall technology level. Seriously, take that 600 bucks and buy an old beater of a car and total it, you'll have way more fun in an afternoon than GTA-IXIVLLXVII will ever provide.

[Dracho]

I'm on Crossfire because of the technology I have and not wanting to replace the entire inside of my computer.

The next time I upgrade I'll go Intel Quad Core with Nvidia SLI, but it's going to be another 2-3 years, and like Bonk said, I don't need the latest, greatest, most expensive.

[E_Look]

Hmmm...

... great conversation so far.

So, in my kid's rig, with its dated components like the Athlon XP chip, AGP port, and simple DDR RAM, could Call of Duty 4 run properly in it with either the ATI HD 2600 XT or one of the nVidia 7000 series cards?

[Pestalence_XC]

Should work no problem.. so long as the card says AGP slot..

[Dracho]

Yep.. you may have to set some graphic settings below maximum detail, but you should still be able to see plenty of body parts.

I'm playing Brothers in Arms, Earned in Blood again and loving it on max detail.

[E_Look]

Ah, Pestalence, you have to just hope that AMD might improve ATI's handling of drivers and customer service.

*                                              *                                               *

Well, I'm in no real hurry to upgrade his video card.  I'll sit on this to see how prices move over the next little while.  In the meantime, maybe I'll dig that 512 MB stick of RAM out of the basement and pop it in for a total of 1.5 GB and see if it might do as short term quick fix.

[Don Karnage]

this should be good for you   http://www.nvidia.com/object/graphics_cards_buy_now.html

[Don Karnage]

also i was reading some info on my video card and I'm not sure how much ram it suppose to have, i might change it for a 256 meg, so maybe that card can be good for you're kid computer since its a agp card, but not sure if its good for the game he play.


http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce6_techspecs.html

[E_Look]

I think Javora mentioned that depending on the specific computer system, a bit difference in RAM on the video card may not change things a whole lot.

[E_Look]

Hey Matt, guess what- I finally got the Sapphire Radeon HD 2600 XT.

But it wasn't for my son... it was for me!  I didn't want him frittering his time away on Call of Duty 4 anyway.

And my video card, the one I still currently have in my computer which has just started a few days ago giving me the bad display with random splotches blinking everywhere on the screen, has to be replaced... pronto!

So I figure, I'll  get it!  Anyhow, I really love this ATI Radeon 9700 128 MB, but I think it's just about kaput.  I initially thought it could have been driver conflicts with some Windows update, so I updated the drivers for this 9700.  No change.  I've never seen any kind of monitor do this, but since the randomly blinking splotches are block-like in shape, and composed of little vertical lines, it looks very much like a video card on its last legs.

What is surprising is that the card is going bad.  Usually, I've heard, they just go obsolete and one throws it away fully functional.

I hope, anyway, it's a simple case of graphics hardware dying, and not something else... like my still sorta new monitor!  Besides, I can hear the hard drive going whenever these splotches appear, so I suspect it isn't the monitor.

I agree that the video card is outdated but I'm not sure how much you want to spend on it as you never specified a price.  Since I really don't think that you will be installing MS Vista on the machine I wouldn't suggest a latest greatest video card anyway.  I'm not sure you're going to find a 8600 Nvidia card for the AGP slot, I know there has been talk about it but I haven't seen any yet.  For Nvidia that leaves the mid-range 7600 series cards but remember that those cards will be as outdated as MS XP is now.  For ATI you might have a little better luck if you ever want to load Vista on your system.  I found a couple of cards that might be what you are looking for given the computers age:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130076

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16814102718

Given the features of the cards I would probably go with the ATI card this time around even though the ATI card is a little more expensive.  Hope this helps.

[Javora]

Glad it worked out for you Ed.  The 2600 looks like a good choice for your system, it should work for the rest of that systems usable life span.  It certainly sounds like your old card was dying a horrible death, but heck a ATI 9700 is what five years old?  I think you got your money's worth out of that old card.

[E_Look]

Actually, the system it's for has got an Athlon 64, not XP on a then-pretty-cool MSI motherboard.  When I got the 9700, the 9800 was either just released or just previewed or something like that, and I got it for the "low" price of $170 before tax.

Now that you mention it, five years is a good run, but still, I've heard of video cards becoming obsolete much, much, much more than going bad.  But, what can I say... the replacement is, I guess, a superior technology, and about half the price. 

[E_Look]

Hey folks, I want share a warning.

As the title says, I haven't been in the market for these things for a while, and so lost track of small technology changes, like connectors and power requirements.  My old video card, the Radeon 9700 Pro, had a smaller four-pin male power connector, for which the power supply had ONE DEDICATED female connector.

The replacement, the new(er) Radeon 2600XT, has different, larger connector, for which I had to use the supplied conversion adaptor cable so that I can use the PSU connectors.

The problem is, that now there are TWO connectors from the PSU that look somewhat similar and both fit.  Well, I chose the wrong one first and when I tried to boot the system, it came on, but the monitor had no picture and I smelled smoke (or was it capacitor oil??!).  After being shocked (emotionally, not electrically) and dumbfounded for a couple of seconds, I shut the computer down and looked at it again.

It was then I realized there was another connector and when I finally used this one... despite having smelled an odor associated with fried electronics lingering from the first try... it worked and the monitor display was beautiful again, no splotches, no weird blocks, no bad anything.

I really wish the documentation supplied by Sapphire (the manufacturer) would have been a tad bit more detailed and explicit.

*          *          *

It's quiet!

The 9700 Pro apparently was noisier; I used to believe that the sound from my computer was essentially due to my case fans.  But it now seems that it was the video card fan!  It didn't really bother me, but hey, I like this quieter computer now.

[Nemesis]

You may have blown a capacitor in the power supply that fed the wrong plug that you used and if so that plug will never work again.

I had a similar incident (minus the burning smell) with setting up a system with a Core2Duo chip.  The motherboards main power is two connectors, one of which is the standard ATX power connector and the other a 4 pin one that goes in easily and obviously but 180 degrees from its proper orientation and the motherboard power LED lights up but it will not boot.  When I finally forced it in the other way it booted and runs properly (currently doing an extended burn in on SETI).  It will eventually replace my aging dual CPU machine as my primary desktop.

[E_Look]

Thanks for the info, Nem.

I'm relieved it's not anything so smoky smelling on the video card because that plug was essentially unused and there is at least another like it.  So, if it's just one blown cap in the PSU, my system will survive it.  Anyway, I don't have another usable video card in the basement, but I do have another usable PSU with enough power output in the basement.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

I think the bigger difference is to get one with DDR3 or DDR4, instead of DDR2.  Where 512 comes in is if you have an explosion with smoke or something, it might be a tad smoother.

I am running a 939 board, so I am going to have a 128 memory bottleneck regardless.   That's part of why I decided not to splurge on a Hd 2900.

Jusy curious whats your power supply?  I'm getting ready to chuck my Nvidia 7600 GT.  Piece of junk.

[Nemesis]

Thanks for the info, Nem.

It is just an educated guess, I could be wrong.  My being wrong has been known to happen on occasion.

[Dracho]

I think the bigger difference is to get one with DDR3 or DDR4, instead of DDR2.  Where 512 comes in is if you have an explosion with smoke or something, it might be a tad smoother.

I am running a 939 board, so I am going to have a 128 memory bottleneck regardless.   That's part of why I decided not to splurge on a Hd 2900.

Jusy curious whats your power supply?  I'm getting ready to chuck my Nvidia 7600 GT.  Piece of junk.

My PS is an 800w I bought at CompUSA

[E_Look]

800 W!!

Man, I turn out even the fluorescent bulbs when not in use.  I'd be loath to even boot up if my computer consumed, say, on the average too much over 100-150W( ; I understand that the PSU rating is peak).

[Pestalence_XC]

Most PC's run at about 250 watts when browsing the web.. (going by P IV and higher CPU's and 533 MHz FSB memory at about 1 gb)

with an older vid card (0 to 1 connections from the PSU) the system will usually draw about 300 to 350 watts when gaming. (max settings)

With my 8800 GTX and my system specs, the PSU draws 475 to 525 watts when gaming.. (all settings maxed and Overclocked)

My PSU is rated 1000 Watts, but I don't use anywhere near that amount.. I got a 1000 watt PSU because of degradation..

If your PSU is running peak or near peak, then the life of the PSU will degrade extremely fast and could go out after 3 to 4 years..

However I am running mine about 50% of its duty cycle when gaming and about 35% of its duty cycle browsing the web and what not.. as such, I shouldn't have to replace this PSU for about 7 to 8 years, or even longer.. on my older boxes, I would always run a PSU rated at least 150 watts higher than my actual power draw.. and I have yet to have one go out on me..

Mine is the Ultra X-3 Modular (which means the cables come off the actual PSU and you only use the cables you need, no clutter and it comes with 32 cables for all types of rigs) 1000 Watt PSU with a lifetime warranty. At the time I bought a X-2 750 Watt Modular PSU for $79.99, but it was DOA, Ultra upgraded me for free to a $300 X-3 1000 watt modular PSU. I wanted the Blue LED in the X-2 series, The X-3 does not have LED.. but the 1000 watts make up for that.

[E_Look]

My information may be dated, but I did recall, with the aid of a webpage somewhere some time ago that gave estimates of the power consumption of various parts, adding up the usage of all the parts of an average PC and really, it did not come out to anywhere near 250 W.

If anyone knows, what are the consumption figures or estimates for the various components of an "average" PC nowadays?

To break it down:
CPU
mobo chipset
HD
DVD/CD ROM drive
floppy, if any
Zip/Jaz/Rev/etc. if any
vid card
sound card
monitor (any kind)
speakers (any kind)
wireless peripherals (you know, keyboard and mouse)
USB hubs
card readers

and if anyone can think of anything else...

[Pestalence_XC]

Really old CPU - 40w (Intel Pentium III)
Older CPUs [AMD Athlon, Intel P IV] - 85-125 watts
Newer CPUs (Intel Pentium Dual Core, Intel Core 2 Duo, AMD Dual COre) - 55w-95w (Quad cores go up to 125 watts)

Motherboard (w/o CPU or RAM) 50W - 100W (Non Corssfire or SLI)
Motherboard (w/o CPU or RAM) 65 - 120w (Crossfire or SLI)


RAM 15W per 1GB (This is old DDR memory - not DDR2)
RAM 18w - 25w per 1GB (This is DDR2 memory and speed dependant, 533Mhz, 667Mhz, 800Mhz on the fsb)


Hard Drive - 15W - 30W (this is EIDE @ 5400 RPM)
Hard Drive - 25w - 50w (This is SATA Drive @ 5400 RPM)
Hard Drive - 30w - 60w (this is Sata Drive @ 7200 RPM)


Case/CPU Fans 3W (ea.)

AGP Video Card 30W - 50W
Older PCI Express Video 100W - 225W (This is like the ATI Radeon x1300, x1500, NVidia 6800, 7600)
Newer PCI Express Video 175W - 370W (This is newer GPU's like the NVidia 8600, and 8800 series (NON SLI) (Double power consumption for SLI / Crossfire))

DVD/CD 20W - 30W (not counting Lightscribe, DL burner, or Blue-Ray burners)

Average PCI Card 5W - 25W (sound cards, TV Tuners, expansion USB, etc.)

Average 5.1 Surround Speakers - 70w continous peak, 75w max peak

USB hubs considered part of mother board power draw.

My monitor pulls about 100w at 1440x900 at 75hz.. it is energy star LCD Flatscreen

Zip drives usually pull the same as a standard DVD player

Floppy only pulls 10w at the most.

[E_Look]

Hmmm... I'll have to reevaluate my computer usage.

Thanks, Pesty.

[E_Look]

I was given an old nVidia GeForce 5200 FX card today by a friend who will no longer use it.

Does anyone know if this card will run Call of Duty 4?

[Pestalence_XC]

Call of Duty 4 Specifications

Minimum PC System Specifications :

PC Processor Type IntelŪ PentiumŪ 4 processor or equivalent PC Processor Speed 2.4GHz
PC Operating System Windows XP, Windows Vista
PC System Memory 512MB RAM
PC Hard Drive Space 8GB
PC Video ATI RADEON 9800 PRO or NVIDIA GeForce 6600 video card
PC Sound Card DirectX 9.0c-compatible sound card
PC Drive Type and Speed DVD-ROM 6x
PC Additional Requirements Internet service required to access online features

Recommended system specifications :

CPU: 2.4 GHz dual core or better is recommended
RAM: 1GB for XP; 2GB for Vista is recommended
Harddrive: 8GB of free hard drive space
Video card: 3.0 Shader Support recommended. Nvidia Geforce 7800 or better or ATI Radeon X1800 or better

the 5200 may play the game, but it will be very choppy and skipping frames, and possibly missing textures

[E_Look]

Actually, the game may not even load, as in the case with the Radeon 9500.

Ah well.  One day, I'll have to spring for an updated card for him.