Topic: Enterprise from the new Star Trek XI movie Picture

[Vipre]

You have to remember, in TOS the engine Nacell pylons are vertical, where TMP Enterprise the Pylons are swept back.. this was part of the refit to relieve stress from the secondary hull.. so yes, the TOS Enterprise, the nacells are closer to the bridge than the TMP Enterprise.. you are comparing TMP to TOS in your above pictures.

I picked that picture only because the angles are about the same and they are closer in design style, however you are not correct. The pylons may have been swept back but the nacelle position remained virtually the same. The connection to the nacelle was moved back and the one to the hull forward so that would be possible. As a result their appearence of size in relation to their bridge structures is almost identical.

I will say that I believe they used a somewhat fisheyed lens in that tmp shot that make the nacelles look smaller than they should be.
The reason the nacelles in the trailer pic look so large is probably an optical illusion similar to the one which makes the tmp nacelles look smaller than they should be. I stand by the post. If it's not an optical illusion then either the nacelles are half as far from the bridge or they're twice as big as the originals.

[Chris Jones]

We take TOS to be the original Star Trek  = and if JJ wants to reboot the franchise, keep old fans and attract new ones, he should damn well at least keep close to the original 60s design, and font. Lepton you present a good argument, and yes I am a TNGer all the way, but this ship, as a Kirk ship set in the TOS era, should look like TOS and not some bastardized version of it. Again - this would keep old Trek fans AND attract new ones. Star Trek: Enhanced is a perfect example of this. My son had not seen any TOS until Enhanced. After seeing this ship, he says he'll wait for the DVD. This is not Trek to him.

 Just make it a blockbuster TNG movie and forget all this anyway.   ***ducks***

[Rod ONeal]

OK, now that everyone's got the new enterprise out of their systems... let's talk about the real travesty in this movie. Winona Ryder as Spock's mother? She's only 36.  

[Pestalence_XC]

You have to remember, the movie is suppose to be set when Kirk and Spock are still in Starfleet Academy... Her age is about appropriate.

[Vipre]

Jane Wyatt will always be Amanda Grayson to me. Just as nobody could ever replace Mark Lenard as Sarek.



She made such an impact and with only one appearance to do it.

[Beeblebrox]

There are some additional shots of the new Enterprise along with a glimpse of the interior.  This site also gives up a link to a nifty feature on the official movie site.

http://trekmovie.com/2008/01/21/star-trek-teaser-trailer-online-now/

[Rod ONeal]

This looks like Gabe's nacelle from the rear to me. If it is, I'm really surprised that they're deviating so far from the original Enterprise.

[Rod ONeal]

You have to remember, the movie is suppose to be set when Kirk and Spock are still in Starfleet Academy... Her age is about appropriate.

I think it would make them more in high school, at the most, rather than SFA.

[TheStressPuppy]

You guys never cease to amaze me. Do you honestly think after 40+ years a movie set in the TOS era would use the Enterprise from the TV show? The reason the original enterprise wasnt used in TMP was because the model was just too old, clumsy, and lacked the detailing needed for a full blown big screen movie. This new ship is still clearly Matt Jefferies design. With some nice subtle alterations. I grew up watching Kirk, and company trundle through the galaxy, hookng up with green, and blue females, dodging gotho's, giant hands, blobs amoebas, Styrofoam boulders, etc. etc. We all loved it despite the cheese factor. You guys knew how much of a nut i was about modeling the TOS big-E. However looking at this "new" TOS big-E i must say.. i LIKE it! I think JJ Abrams has the right idea. Instead of modifying the old 1960's TOS model to bring it up to speed for todays standard, He "downgraded" the TMP enterprise to TOS specs, and retained the best parts of the TMP ship. Including the hull font. This is a nice blend of the old, and the new, It also make the "new" TOS connie consistent tech wise with all the other series. JJ said he would stay true to trek lore. He said absolutely nothing about not changing the appearance of the technology.

Chris you of all people i would have least expected to mock this ship.

I think most of the TOS purist wont be happy no matter what. Damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

To be honest if this Trek is a reboot ala Galactica it may be a good thing. Look at how many old timers protested the new galactica.. Turns out many old school fans. Myself included LIKE the new show. The same could be true with the "new" Trek. We just have to keep an open mind. IDIC.

Now if the Story, Acting, and Plot of the movie sucks. All of this great new artwork will be a waste.

[Beeblebrox]

This looks like Gabe's nacelle from the rear to me. If it is, I'm really surprised that they're deviating so far from the original Enterprise.

See, I would have said that this view was meant to be along the spine of the secondary hull looking out over the fantail.  The "wings" are most likely the hull extensions for taking the nacelle pylons.

[Vipre]

Doubtful. It probably is a view looking forward on the nacelle. I'd rough estimate the distance between the fins at 45-50 feet. If it were the secondary hull I'd expect that to be doubled.

[Beeblebrox]

Taking another look at the last picture and the first one in the thread I'm forced to say you may be right.  Maybe those fins are the pre-TOS version of the warp nacelle intercoolers. 

I was wondering if the guys making this movie will equip the Enterprise with lasers like it had in The Cage.  Of course given the giant dump that seems to have been taken on Star Trek continuity these days they probably won't.   

[atheorhaven]

You guys never cease to amaze me. Do you honestly think after 40+ years a movie set in the TOS era would use the Enterprise from the TV show? The reason the original enterprise wasnt used in TMP was because the model was just too old, clumsy, and lacked the detailing needed for a full blown big screen movie. This new ship is still clearly Matt Jefferies design. With some nice subtle alterations. I grew up watching Kirk, and company trundle through the galaxy, hookng up with green, and blue females, dodging gotho's, giant hands, blobs amoebas, Styrofoam boulders, etc. etc. We all loved it despite the cheese factor. You guys knew how much of a nut i was about modeling the TOS big-E. However looking at this "new" TOS big-E i must say.. i LIKE it! I think JJ Abrams has the right idea. Instead of modifying the old 1960's TOS model to bring it up to speed for todays standard, He "downgraded" the TMP enterprise to TOS specs, and retained the best parts of the TMP ship. Including the hull font. This is a nice blend of the old, and the new, It also make the "new" TOS connie consistent tech wise with all the other series. JJ said he would stay true to trek lore. He said absolutely nothing about not changing the appearance of the technology.
Chris you of all people i would have least expected to mock this ship.
I think most of the TOS purist wont be happy no matter what. Damned if you do, and damned if you dont.
To be honest if this Trek is a reboot ala Galactica it may be a good thing. Look at how many old timers protested the new galactica.. Turns out many old school fans. Myself included LIKE the new show. The same could be true with the "new" Trek. We just have to keep an open mind. IDIC.
Now if the Story, Acting, and Plot of the movie sucks. All of this great new artwork will be a waste.

With respect StressPuppy, to each their own..

I think it'd be a lot more of a challenge for them to go with the original ship in the movie.  Then you approach it with the attitude, "How do we make this fresh and exciting?"  "How do we do things with this classic ship that have never been seen before?"

Even looking at the demos over at Chris' site for Nexus Trek and the Legacy mods, plus ST: New Voyages gives the answer.. the original Trek kept everything 2D because of budget problems.  They don't have that problem with this movie.  You can do things with scale and angles that could never been done before, and go for shots that have never been seen.

We have scenes at a planet?  Fantastic.. how many times have we ever seen the TOS Big E drop out of warp and into orbit?  How many times have we seen it go to warp?  Maybe the reason why we never see the Big E fire rear phasers or a rear torpedo tube may be because of problems experienced during this movie.. a rear torpedo misfire taking out part of the superstructure or a phaser coupling overheating and exploding could require a rethink of that part of the design and shutting down and removing those systems in time for TOS for instance..

This is what I'd go for..

And as a sidenote:  the new BSG may be popular with some, but I literally can't watch it.  The "shakycam" thing makes me physically sick to my stomach to watch it.  So the only way I've been even able to think of how to view it would be to run the show through a program like VirtualDub and then run a stability filter on it focused on the ship/ships that are the center of action, cropping out the rest.  Then maybe I can watch it.  If the new movie does the same, I'll have to walk out of it for the same reason.  And not *everything* has to be sex and violence... I see the direction that BSG went to be the same road that Babylon 5: Crusade was asked to walk down, and JMS shut the show down rather than go there.  I *like* not having all that drek in a story.. it means that they have to actually write something, not script:

[i]13:45 [scene]: Dark hallway with female Cylon and human male.  Camera pans, no one is around.  Female Cylon pushes human male against hallway wall and they start to undress.

14:35 [ad lib talking and kissing]

14:55 - 16:59 [scene pushes R rating]

17:00 fade to commercial.[/i]

Now what is actually accomplished in this sort of scene?  You kill three minutes and fifteen seconds of the fourty two or so minutes to tell your story, and you never get that back.  To be honest, if I wanted to see that sort of story, there's adult entertainment shops where I can rent that, and they don't ever have to pretend to be set in space.

I watch science fiction because I want to see a science fiction story, and that means that there has to be a story to watch.  Guess that puts me into the camp that prefers TOS styling, good story telling, and has at least a nodding respect for its fans... as opposed to the beheading and execution of a good story and show in order to make time in the show for soft porn.  And I *hope* that they don't walk down this road..

[Chris Jones]

Yes I do expect JJ Bonehead to pay some attention to how the ship should look - this is TOS - not some (repeating) bastardized (/end repeat) twisted version of it. TMP was moving forward. This is a 're-boot'. How about giving JJ the Boot. The only way I will take this movie seriously is if the ship itself looks, at the very least, like Star Trek Enhanced. Not this freaking absurd abomination with Jet Engines for Warp Nacelles. I am about change, but leave TOS alone, in Star Trek: Enhanced. Gotta Disagree with you Stress, although I love your work.

I don't think I've ever gone off on anything Trek related in all my years of Modding until this crap.

TNG 20.

You guys never cease to amaze me. Do you honestly think after 40+ years a movie set in the TOS era would use the Enterprise from the TV show? The reason the original enterprise wasnt used in TMP was because the model was just too old, clumsy, and lacked the detailing needed for a full blown big screen movie. This new ship is still clearly Matt Jefferies design. With some nice subtle alterations. I grew up watching Kirk, and company trundle through the galaxy, hookng up with green, and blue females, dodging gotho's, giant hands, blobs amoebas, Styrofoam boulders, etc. etc. We all loved it despite the cheese factor. You guys knew how much of a nut i was about modeling the TOS big-E. However looking at this "new" TOS big-E i must say.. i LIKE it! I think JJ Abrams has the right idea. Instead of modifying the old 1960's TOS model to bring it up to speed for todays standard, He "downgraded" the TMP enterprise to TOS specs, and retained the best parts of the TMP ship. Including the hull font. This is a nice blend of the old, and the new, It also make the "new" TOS connie consistent tech wise with all the other series. JJ said he would stay true to trek lore. He said absolutely nothing about not changing the appearance of the technology.

Chris you of all people i would have least expected to mock this ship.

I think most of the TOS purist wont be happy no matter what. Damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

To be honest if this Trek is a reboot ala Galactica it may be a good thing. Look at how many old timers protested the new galactica.. Turns out many old school fans. Myself included LIKE the new show. The same could be true with the "new" Trek. We just have to keep an open mind. IDIC.

Now if the Story, Acting, and Plot of the movie sucks. All of this great new artwork will be a waste.

[Age]

You guys never cease to amaze me. Do you honestly think after 40+ years a movie set in the TOS era would use the Enterprise from the TV show? The reason the original enterprise wasnt used in TMP was because the model was just too old, clumsy, and lacked the detailing needed for a full blown big screen movie. This new ship is still clearly Matt Jefferies design. With some nice subtle alterations. I grew up watching Kirk, and company trundle through the galaxy, hookng up with green, and blue females, dodging gotho's, giant hands, blobs amoebas, Styrofoam boulders, etc. etc. We all loved it despite the cheese factor. You guys knew how much of a nut i was about modeling the TOS big-E. However looking at this "new" TOS big-E i must say.. i LIKE it! I think JJ Abrams has the right idea. Instead of modifying the old 1960's TOS model to bring it up to speed for todays standard, He "downgraded" the TMP enterprise to TOS specs, and retained the best parts of the TMP ship. Including the hull font. This is a nice blend of the old, and the new, It also make the "new" TOS connie consistent tech wise with all the other series. JJ said he would stay true to trek lore. He said absolutely nothing about not changing the appearance of the technology.
Chris you of all people i would have least expected to mock this ship.
I think most of the TOS purist wont be happy no matter what. Damned if you do, and damned if you dont.
To be honest if this Trek is a reboot ala Galactica it may be a good thing. Look at how many old timers protested the new galactica.. Turns out many old school fans. Myself included LIKE the new show. The same could be true with the "new" Trek. We just have to keep an open mind. IDIC.
Now if the Story, Acting, and Plot of the movie sucks. All of this great new artwork will be a waste.

With respect StressPuppy, to each their own..

I think it'd be a lot more of a challenge for them to go with the original ship in the movie.  Then you approach it with the attitude, "How do we make this fresh and exciting?"  "How do we do things with this classic ship that have never been seen before?"

Even looking at the demos over at Chris' site for Nexus Trek and the Legacy mods, plus ST: New Voyages gives the answer.. the original Trek kept everything 2D because of budget problems.  They don't have that problem with this movie.  You can do things with scale and angles that could never been done before, and go for shots that have never been seen.

We have scenes at a planet?  Fantastic.. how many times have we ever seen the TOS Big E drop out of warp and into orbit?  How many times have we seen it go to warp?  Maybe the reason why we never see the Big E fire rear phasers or a rear torpedo tube may be because of problems experienced during this movie.. a rear torpedo misfire taking out part of the superstructure or a phaser coupling overheating and exploding could require a rethink of that part of the design and shutting down and removing those systems in time for TOS for instance..

This is what I'd go for..

And as a sidenote:  the new BSG may be popular with some, but I literally can't watch it.  The "shakycam" thing makes me physically sick to my stomach to watch it.  So the only way I've been even able to think of how to view it would be to run the show through a program like VirtualDub and then run a stability filter on it focused on the ship/ships that are the center of action, cropping out the rest.  Then maybe I can watch it.  If the new movie does the same, I'll have to walk out of it for the same reason.  And not *everything* has to be sex and violence... I see the direction that BSG went to be the same road that Babylon 5: Crusade was asked to walk down, and JMS shut the show down rather than go there.  I *like* not having all that drek in a story.. it means that they have to actually write something, not script:

[i]13:45 [scene]: Dark hallway with female Cylon and human male.  Camera pans, no one is around.  Female Cylon pushes human male against hallway wall and they start to undress.

14:35 [ad lib talking and kissing]

14:55 - 16:59 [scene pushes R rating]

17:00 fade to commercial.[/i]

Now what is actually accomplished in this sort of scene?  You kill three minutes and fifteen seconds of the fourty two or so minutes to tell your story, and you never get that back.  To be honest, if I wanted to see that sort of story, there's adult entertainment shops where I can rent that, and they don't ever have to pretend to be set in space.

I watch science fiction because I want to see a science fiction story, and that means that there has to be a story to watch.  Guess that puts me into the camp that prefers TOS styling, good story telling, and has at least a nodding respect for its fans... as opposed to the beheading and execution of a good story and show in order to make time in the show for soft porn.  And I *hope* that they don't walk down this road..

There were no rear firing photons on the Original 1701 as well as possibly phasers only TMP version has rear firing phasers.There are no photons as well in 1701-A only -B would have that being based off of the Excelsior.I will say this that JJ is doing a better jop than Bermon and Braga did with the TNG movies.First Cotact was the only movie which did well not great but well compared to all TMP movies.Why JJ is a big screen producer where as Bermon and Braga aren't.

[Pestalence_XC]

You guys never cease to amaze me. Do you honestly think after 40+ years a movie set in the TOS era would use the Enterprise from the TV show? The reason the original enterprise wasnt used in TMP was because the model was just too old, clumsy, and lacked the detailing needed for a full blown big screen movie. This new ship is still clearly Matt Jefferies design. With some nice subtle alterations. I grew up watching Kirk, and company trundle through the galaxy, hookng up with green, and blue females, dodging gotho's, giant hands, blobs amoebas, Styrofoam boulders, etc. etc. We all loved it despite the cheese factor. You guys knew how much of a nut i was about modeling the TOS big-E. However looking at this "new" TOS big-E i must say.. i LIKE it! I think JJ Abrams has the right idea. Instead of modifying the old 1960's TOS model to bring it up to speed for todays standard, He "downgraded" the TMP enterprise to TOS specs, and retained the best parts of the TMP ship. Including the hull font. This is a nice blend of the old, and the new, It also make the "new" TOS connie consistent tech wise with all the other series. JJ said he would stay true to trek lore. He said absolutely nothing about not changing the appearance of the technology.
Chris you of all people i would have least expected to mock this ship.
I think most of the TOS purist wont be happy no matter what. Damned if you do, and damned if you dont.
To be honest if this Trek is a reboot ala Galactica it may be a good thing. Look at how many old timers protested the new galactica.. Turns out many old school fans. Myself included LIKE the new show. The same could be true with the "new" Trek. We just have to keep an open mind. IDIC.
Now if the Story, Acting, and Plot of the movie sucks. All of this great new artwork will be a waste.

With respect StressPuppy, to each their own..

I think it'd be a lot more of a challenge for them to go with the original ship in the movie. Then you approach it with the attitude, "How do we make this fresh and exciting?" "How do we do things with this classic ship that have never been seen before?"

Even looking at the demos over at Chris' site for Nexus Trek and the Legacy mods, plus ST: New Voyages gives the answer.. the original Trek kept everything 2D because of budget problems. They don't have that problem with this movie. You can do things with scale and angles that could never been done before, and go for shots that have never been seen.

We have scenes at a planet? Fantastic.. how many times have we ever seen the TOS Big E drop out of warp and into orbit? How many times have we seen it go to warp? Maybe the reason why we never see the Big E fire rear phasers or a rear torpedo tube may be because of problems experienced during this movie.. a rear torpedo misfire taking out part of the superstructure or a phaser coupling overheating and exploding could require a rethink of that part of the design and shutting down and removing those systems in time for TOS for instance..

This is what I'd go for..

And as a sidenote: the new BSG may be popular with some, but I literally can't watch it. The "shakycam" thing makes me physically sick to my stomach to watch it. So the only way I've been even able to think of how to view it would be to run the show through a program like VirtualDub and then run a stability filter on it focused on the ship/ships that are the center of action, cropping out the rest. Then maybe I can watch it. If the new movie does the same, I'll have to walk out of it for the same reason. And not *everything* has to be sex and violence... I see the direction that BSG went to be the same road that Babylon 5: Crusade was asked to walk down, and JMS shut the show down rather than go there. I *like* not having all that drek in a story.. it means that they have to actually write something, not script:

[i]13:45 [scene]: Dark hallway with female Cylon and human male. Camera pans, no one is around. Female Cylon pushes human male against hallway wall and they start to undress.

14:35 [ad lib talking and kissing]

14:55 - 16:59 [scene pushes R rating]

17:00 fade to commercial.[/i]

Now what is actually accomplished in this sort of scene? You kill three minutes and fifteen seconds of the fourty two or so minutes to tell your story, and you never get that back. To be honest, if I wanted to see that sort of story, there's adult entertainment shops where I can rent that, and they don't ever have to pretend to be set in space.

I watch science fiction because I want to see a science fiction story, and that means that there has to be a story to watch. Guess that puts me into the camp that prefers TOS styling, good story telling, and has at least a nodding respect for its fans... as opposed to the beheading and execution of a good story and show in order to make time in the show for soft porn. And I *hope* that they don't walk down this road..

There were no rear firing photons on the Original 1701 as well as possibly phasers only TMP version has rear firing phasers.There are no photons as well in 1701-A only -B would have that being based off of the Excelsior.I will say this that JJ is doing a better jop than Bermon and Braga did with the TNG movies.First Cotact was the only movie which did well not great but well compared to all TMP movies.Why JJ is a big screen producer where as Bermon and Braga aren't.

Age, did you not see Enterprise when the Defiant broke out of the Tholian compound? she fired rear torps and phasers..

In TOS, the effects budget did not allow for those effects.. however I agree in the TOS series, Enterprise did not have rear firing torps.. but phasers were quite possible (though never shown).. I just take it as Kirk liking to face his opponent instead of hit and run tactics.

[Panzergranate]

Interestingly enough, planets were done better and more realistically on Gerry Anderson's Space 1999 than in the original TOS.

Also the film techniques for ship movements and explosions were developed here and later used for Star Wars. Seeings as Space 1999 (1974) was only a few years after Star Trek TOS ended in 1971, it was 500% better in special effects and the portrayal of space at that time. It also had a more 3D feel to it compared to TOS's 2D feel of space and planets.

OK I know that the budget was higher and it was British, so had two huge advantages over TOS's special effects, but TOS people did the best with what they had available to them at the time.

Perhaps if Gerry Anderson had been in charge of the special effects on TOS then it would have been a lot better, as even the hand laser projected better beams that TOS's hand phasers.

Actually, perhaps they should ask Gerry to do the next ST movie special effects.

Also did anyone out there spot that some of the TNG episodes nicked story lines from SPace 1999??

[Vipre]

In TOS, the effects budget did not allow for those effects.. however I agree in the TOS series, Enterprise did not have rear firing torps.. but phasers were quite possible (though never shown).. I just take it as Kirk liking to face his opponent instead of hit and run tactics.

One shot of rear phasers and one of a torpedo, then replay over and over as needed. I don't buy for a second that they didn't have the money for two shots. The new BSG repeats the same shot of Vipers landing over and over as well for the same reason. The ship didn't have rear phasers or torpedoes because they didn't want it to simple as that. The writers of "In a Mirror Darkly" needed the ship to fire in the rear arc so it did again simple as that. It's one thing to take a ship from one episode of TOS and show things that weren't in TOS, it'd be another to retcon rear arc weapons to the original series E because of IaMD.

As for the movie RA phasers are almost a certainty torpedoes would be pushing it.

[Chris Jones]

One would have to assume that TOS ships in Kirk's time had rear firing weapons. In the original series we never saw such a thing because of effects budgets, etc. IF ST:XI is to be TOS, which unfortunately is the case, then I would want to see weapon arcs such as 'In a Mirror Darkly' had. The Enterprise had them as well, just not shown in the 60s, but to some degree they were seen in Enhanced. The TOS Enterprise should have the arcs shown in the one Ent episode - but the ship itself should not look like JJ has depicted it - no way no how - it should look like Enhanced. Period.

TNG 20

[Panzergranate]

As the torpedoes always fired from either side of the under saucer dome, in TOS, and in the ENT episode the Defiant fires the aft torpedoes from somewhere well forward of the neck, if you look closely, as they pass either sade of it when fired rearwards. I checled and measured the scale models of the Enterprise and the torpedoes would clear the neck if fired from the TOS lower dome position.

Also is the Defiant one of the 12 Constitution Class starships or another class buult on the same hull?? If so, ths would explain hy the Enterprise never fires aft torpedoes in TOS.

As for the aft phaser.... how many times doe you here the disjoined voice report, "Aft Phaser ready!!" everytme the Enterprise went to red alert.

Also the Constellation actually fires from the upper right Phaser bank at the Doomsday Machine, not the normal lower front always depicted with the Enterprise.

Just because they never have cause to fire the aft torpedoes or some other weaponry, it doesn't mean that it isn't supposed to be on the ship. Using the priciple that because it wasn't seen used in TOS the Enterprise didn;t have it, could mean that the ship also has no toilets, as nobdy is seen taking a dump!!

The Enterprse also carries 4 shuttle craft (number stated in "The Omega Glory") with the other four craft being presumably work pods. We only ever see two of the shuttle craft, but assume that the others must also be present.

There are possible way in which continuity can be maintained with TOS by maybe describing the "weird" Enterprise as failed refit experiment that was abandoned by the time TOS came about.

The ship was launched in 2245, the cage in 2252 and TOS was set in 2266, so a lot could have happened to the ship between these periods.