Topic: questions regarding the games in starfleet command

[julio975]

When I was in high schhool, I remember seeing the tabletop game of federation and the empire at the local gaming shop and it seemed like it would be fun to play(just for the fact that i really like star trek-mainly TNG and DS9. was not really into the TOS(kirk and all)). And I just recently found out that there have been PC version release of those games.

Now the questions i have is...which game(s) should i get?
1. It seems the consensus is that SFC 3 is a dumb down version of 2 but still fun.
Is this accurate?
2. Should I get sfc 1 first and then if i like that get sfc2? If not, and decide to go straight to sfc 2, will i be missing any experience in the sfc universe for skipping sfc 1?

3. Starfleet command 1, starfleet command 2: empire at war, star fleet command 2: orion pirates, starfleet command 3. can someone verify that these are the only 4 games in the sfc universe?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Those are the 4. I would skip the first SFC and go to EAW if you want any tutorials. Orion Pirates is what you will find being played the most, but it has no tutorials. SFC3 is TNG stuff and more like a FPS game.

[Beeblebrox]

1. It seems the consensus is that SFC 3 is a dumb down version of 2 but still fun.
Is this accurate?

SFC3 is completely useless and I hope there is a special place in Gamer's Hell for the people who produced it.  They took all the stuff that made SFC fun to play and that made it a challenging tactical game and flushed it down the crapper.  Then they substituted cheesy models, really terrible firing arcs, awful missions, a weak storyline, and bug-riddled code.  Oh, and they took out twelve of the sixteen playable races OP offered.  The only good thing I can say about it is that I didn't have to pay for my copy.  If I'd dropped the usual $80 or $90 I would have wanted to harm myself and/or others. 

My advice is to go with OP.  EAW is pretty good but the OP Enhancement Package 5.0 will add all of the EAW storyline missions to OP.  SFC1 is really fun and entertaining but, since no one seems to play it online anymore, you should only get it for the sheer enjoyment of flying some awesome and unusual missions.  Watch out for Commodore Decker.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Yeah,
SFC1 is very fun for if you are looking for a single player... the whole atmosphere for each race is great.
OP is nice for multiplayer. Even with just regular multiplayer, there seems to be an average of 8 people on Gamespy.

And even if you don't like Kirk days as much as TNG, there are some huge TNG mods for OP.

[Age]

1. It seems the consensus is that SFC 3 is a dumb down version of 2 but still fun.
Is this accurate?

SFC3 is completely useless and I hope there is a special place in Gamer's Hell for the people who produced it.  They took all the stuff that made SFC fun to play and that made it a challenging tactical game and flushed it down the crapper.  Then they substituted cheesy models, really terrible firing arcs, awful missions, a weak storyline, and bug-riddled code.  Oh, and they took out twelve of the sixteen playable races OP offered.  The only good thing I can say about it is that I didn't have to pay for my copy.  If I'd dropped the usual $80 or $90 I would have wanted to harm myself and/or others. 

My advice is to go with OP.  EAW is pretty good but the OP Enhancement Package 5.0 will add all of the EAW storyline missions to OP.  SFC1 is really fun and entertaining but, since no one seems to play it online anymore, you should only get it for the sheer enjoyment of flying some awesome and unusual missions.  Watch out for Commodore Decker.

When you say this.

SFC3 is completely useless and I hope there is a special place in Gamer's Hell for the people who produced it.

Then you are talking about Taldren as they developed it for a game company that gave them the funds for it.I still see SFC 3 a Taldren product look at the credits on it and it does have more mods out there.I wouldn't dump it down.

[Beeblebrox]

I know some folks enjoy SFC3 but for me it was a bitter disappointment.  As far as I can see the biggest "suck indicator" is that modding is absolutely necessary to make SFC3 playable.   

[Pestalence_XC]

The condition of SFC 3 is not Taldren's fault. Activision was the one in charge. SFC 3 was a work for hire.. as such, Activision is the one who dumbed down the interface, Activision rushed the release, Activision blocked all pathways to patch support from Taldren, Activision refused to allow more races,etc.. Taldren did what they could undet Activision's contract.. as such, made the game highly modable for the players to find a way to enjoy the game where Activision just wanted fast bucks. Taldren tried, Taldren even went so far to allow servers to use Beta Builds of the patch under Activision's nose in order to get stability and game play results. Most servers who got the builds threw them streight into their Mods, so Taldren never got Accurate results . When working with Beta's you have to gather all your results from the Stock game to fix what is wrong in it first.. then you move to issues in Mods and game functionality, however all servers reported was Modded results and forgot about the stock game.. the result was a game that could have been fixed more if people understood what the Beta process is all about and used the game Stock first, then worry about Mods later in the future.. However this did not happen, and the result is the SFC 3 Beta Build v534b that I compiled on behalf of Taldren (Taldren made the changes in the EXE file and a few other changes) all I did was compile it to a distributable installer.

To me, I'm not a great fan of SFC 3, but I do try and fight to keep it alive. The game , to me , is designed for 10 to 25 year olds who want a point and shoot game and not a strategy game.. I kind of associate SFC 3 to playing Elite Force, but instead of People running around a ship, it is ships running around in space. It doesn't take much thought to play and you don't have the micromanagement you need in OP, which is what made OP the greatest of the SFC series... well that and 16 playable races.

[Sirgod]

The condition of SFC 3 is not Taldren's fault. Activision was the one in charge. SFC 3 was a work for hire.. as such, Activision is the one who dumbed down the interface, Activision rushed the release, Activision blocked all pathways to patch support from Taldren, Activision refused to allow more races,etc.. Taldren did what they could undet Activision's contract.. as such, made the game highly modable for the players to find a way to enjoy the game where Activision just wanted fast bucks. Taldren tried, Taldren even went so far to allow servers to use Beta Builds of the patch under Activision's nose in order to get stability and game play results. Most servers who got the builds threw them streight into their Mods, so Taldren never got Accurate results . When working with Beta's you have to gather all your results from the Stock game to fix what is wrong in it first.. then you move to issues in Mods and game functionality, however all servers reported was Modded results and forgot about the stock game.. the result was a game that could have been fixed more if people understood what the Beta process is all about and used the game Stock first, then worry about Mods later in the future.. However this did not happen, and the result is the SFC 3 Beta Build v534b that I compiled on behalf of Taldren (Taldren made the changes in the EXE file and a few other changes) all I did was compile it to a distributable installer.

To me, I'm not a great fan of SFC 3, but I do try and fight to keep it alive. The game , to me , is designed for 10 to 25 year olds who want a point and shoot game and not a strategy game.. I kind of associate SFC 3 to playing Elite Force, but instead of People running around a ship, it is ships running around in space. It doesn't take much thought to play and you don't have the micromanagement you need in OP, which is what made OP the greatest of the SFC series... well that and 16 playable races.

Very Well said. I have seen some mods (like Nanners) that did SFC3 the right way, But I am and will always be a EAW player. or OP if pressed. Then again, I remember StoneyFace and I playing Fship's in the old days.  Good times, Good times.

Stephen

[KBF-Crim]

The condition of SFC 3 is not Taldren's fault. Activision was the one in charge. SFC 3 was a work for hire.. as such, Activision is the one who dumbed down the interface, Activision rushed the release, Activision blocked all pathways to patch support from Taldren, Activision refused to allow more races,etc.. Taldren did what they could undet Activision's contract.. as such, made the game highly modable for the players to find a way to enjoy the game where Activision just wanted fast bucks. Taldren tried, Taldren even went so far to allow servers to use Beta Builds of the patch under Activision's nose in order to get stability and game play results. Most servers who got the builds threw them streight into their Mods, so Taldren never got Accurate results . When working with Beta's you have to gather all your results from the Stock game to fix what is wrong in it first.. then you move to issues in Mods and game functionality, however all servers reported was Modded results and forgot about the stock game.. the result was a game that could have been fixed more if people understood what the Beta process is all about and used the game Stock first, then worry about Mods later in the future.. However this did not happen, and the result is the SFC 3 Beta Build v534b that I compiled on behalf of Taldren (Taldren made the changes in the EXE file and a few other changes) all I did was compile it to a distributable installer.

To me, I'm not a great fan of SFC 3, but I do try and fight to keep it alive. The game , to me , is designed for 10 to 25 year olds who want a point and shoot game and not a strategy game.. I kind of associate SFC 3 to playing Elite Force, but instead of People running around a ship, it is ships running around in space. It doesn't take much thought to play and you don't have the micromanagement you need in OP, which is what made OP the greatest of the SFC series... well that and 16 playable races.

I will go one further...

If it werent for the fierce resistence of a couple of "cough" testers, and a unified tester front had been presented.......ATVI *might* have been prodded into some other features....

But the intent was pretty clear...the game was feature and art frozen very early.....the rush was to get some stabilty and little time or effort was put tword this apprach from ATVI...

You cant strip the guts from a game ...replace it with goo...and expect it to be as immersive...

Rest assured....there were at least a few people who were totally orgasmic when 3 shed it's ruleset...

Sprinkle in the visioneers,most whom had never heard of SFC and were clueless to what we were even arguing about,....and the die was cast...

At the end ,Taldren testors were three builds ahead of Visoneer testors.....and we were forbidden to tell visioneers or give them updated builds to try out...

There were rejecting builds based on the amount of code that had changed...rather than the effectivenss of the change....(assclowns)

They pretty much used our SFB based SFC wishlist for features in SFC3...

Option mounts
Fleeting
Tactical warp
Moddable weapons
Etc.

A carrot for SFC fans I'm sure....but for many...a bold slap in the face...

Some will remember when majority the inner circle of testors split.....

It was over a Non SFB trek game......Shadow and the others refused to even have their names associated with it...

Hell...I was probably the least shy about being vocal...I helped flame a few flame wars for sure...

But I've also heard through the years that some on the Taldren were pretty much sick of SFB and all the struggle to get things just right...remember...from SFC1 dev to Op we're talking litterly years of nothing but SFB and Tweaks to get the game to mimic the ruleset...

So must understand this is just another factor....If the ACTI deal hadnt happened we might have not ever seen another SFC from Taldren anyways....

As allways ...highsight is 20/20.....every once and a while ....foresight is 20/20 as well....

Now...all that being said....

I didnt stick around this long just to say I told you so...

We have the EAW source....the OP server kit source...the directory servers for SFC 2/OP/3

We have People like Pestalence and Bonk who continue to stabilise the game and add innovative features...

The future is still very bright...

The game is far from dead......what we need is a good server up.....that's all...

[Beeblebrox]

I will admit that the ability to customize your starship's weapons and other systems was a pretty nice feature.  I think my biggest problem is that I just don't enjoy the TNG era very much.  For me that last well-designed Federation starship was the Ambassador class.  I have enjoyed some of the modded servers for SFC3 but I always wind up being frustrated with the lack of tactical features.  Plus the ship flight responses are more in line with single pilot jet fighters rather than with multi-ton starships. 

As Pestalence says 99% of the blame lies with Activision.  Apart from Bridge Commander (which really should have been built to work with a joystick) Activision has yet to make a fun and playable Star Trek game.  Was Activision responsible for the sorry abortion that was marketed under the title Dominion Wars?   

[Dash Jones]

Those are the 4. I would skip the first SFC and go to EAW if you want any tutorials. Orion Pirates is what you will find being played the most, but it has no tutorials. SFC3 is TNG stuff and more like a FPS game.

I'd be the opposite.  I'd get the first SFC first, and play the tutorials and learn the game, then play Single Player.  EAW isn't dead, but it doesn't compare to it's younger but better brother which took EAW's stuff and got more too.

I'd get SFC:EAW:OP and skip in EAW itself.

[Leto Atreides]

I've played sfc2 eaw, op, and sfc3.  so far i've found i like op the best.  here's my question... is sfc1 single player campaigns worth buying the game? 

[FA Frey XC]

Here are my words of wisdom after almost 8 years of SFC:

1.) Get Orion Pirates, then get EAW. Most everyone plays OP in campaigns and online play, but EAW has a great single player campaign, and it's loads of fun.

2.) Watch here soon for a very exciting and possibly earth-shattering announcement about SFC3.

 

'Nuff said.

[FA Frey XC]

I've played sfc2 eaw, op, and sfc3.  so far i've found i like op the best.  here's my question... is sfc1 single player campaigns worth buying the game? 

If you can get it to RUN on XP. SFC1 is notoriously bumpy and skippy on XP. If you had an old laptop that's running 2000 / 98, then BY ALL MEANS having refits and officer pools are SO FRIGGIN KEWL it can't be understated.

If you really want a good campaign, EAW roxxors, IMHO. We've also had some very talented scripters / modders redo the EAW campaigns for OP, so you can actually play the single player campaign on OP.

Sometimes. When it works.

Regards,

[Age]

Those are the 4. I would skip the first SFC and go to EAW if you want any tutorials. Orion Pirates is what you will find being played the most, but it has no tutorials. SFC3 is TNG stuff and more like a FPS game.

I'd be the opposite.  I'd get the first SFC first, and play the tutorials and learn the game, then play Single Player.  EAW isn't dead, but it doesn't compare to it's younger but better brother which took EAW's stuff and got more too.

I'd get SFC:EAW:OP and skip in EAW itself.

The intro EAW movie is better than OPs anyway and there are voices in the tutorials instead on screen script.

[Beeblebrox]

I've played sfc2 eaw, op, and sfc3.  so far i've found i like op the best.  here's my question... is sfc1 single player campaigns worth buying the game? 

Absolutely.  The SFC1 storyline is absolutely awesome and the final Federation mission is positively cataclysmic.  Frey is right about SFC1 catching and skipping on XP.  I've noticed it the most when you fire a close volley or when a heavy hit is dealt to the opponent AI.  Watch out for Commodore Decker.

The only real downside to the SFC1 campaign is that, if you die the campaign immediately ends with a picture of your coffin.  You have to either go back to your last save or start over.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

The story, menus, and race campaigns are great in SFC1.

My only gripes about it is that it's either too easy, too hard, or too repetitive. In Captain difficulty, for example, I was flying a Fed NCL, and I faced a K-D6G every single generic mission (unless I bought I different ship). But then Admiral mode, you might have to face a DN when you're in a CA. It's fun once in a while, but when you are outclassed by the same ship all the time, the game gets dull. Commodore difficulty seems the same as Captain.

Also, the cloak in SFC1 isn't nearly as good as in EAW/OP. It seems to take twice as long when cloaking or decloaking, and doesn't work as well. The AI Feds can land a full volley of overloaded phot's and ph-1 into you while cloaked, and you die.

I've heard interest about ports of the special SFC1 missions into SFC2, but it might not be possible or probable.

Alright, enough of my ibtching. The classic Starfleet Command is a wonderful game, and is very well put together. A lot of thought went into the missions, and it is a blast to play.

[Dash Jones]

I loved SFC1, and luckily haven't had any problems with it in XP (haven't tried it in Vista yet however).  SFC2, with the missions being ported into OP, for me doesn't really seem to have any attraction to even get or use SFC2 now, it's all about OP.

Do you think it has to do with the version number that one has with SFC1?

I always install it with a full install of everything, so nothing really is running off the disk, it's just does it's disk check at the beginning and then runs fine overall, but I do hear others DO have problems with it in XP so wondering what could be the cause of it?

[Beeblebrox]

I've heard interest about ports of the special SFC1 missions into SFC2, but it might not be possible or probable.

I'd give an awful lot if it was possible for the SFC1 campaign to be ported over into OP.  Hey, Pestalence, how about Enhancement Package 6.0--now with more Commodore Decker.

[Pestalence_XC]

Here are my words of wisdom after almost 8 years of SFC:

1.) Get Orion Pirates, then get EAW. Most everyone plays OP in campaigns and online play, but EAW has a great single player campaign, and it's loads of fun.

2.) Watch here soon for a very exciting and possibly earth-shattering announcement about SFC3.

 

'Nuff said.

Actually Frey, all he needs is Orion Pirates and then get the OP Enhancement Pack v5.1 .. it has all the EAW Storyline and EAW Bonus CD scripts in it as ported over from Firesoul.

This eliminates EAW all together.. the only thing missing is the tutorial missions.

All 4 games work fine under XP and Vista for single player if the game is configured properly. Vista actually lets SFC 1 work better and removes lagging. However I find that the SFC games work better withthe Vista SP 1 Beta installed.

Dynaverse and GSA play is just fine under XP

GSA works just fine in Vista with SP1 Beta installed and GSA + SFC game configured correctly with some adjustments to the added features in Vista.

Dynaverse for SFC EAW, OP and 3 however I'm still working on.. there seems to be a problem with the different Direct X versions from XP to Vista. You can get on servers with both, you can play in campaign on both, you can draft on both, the problem is the server end and the client on Vista.. they have a problem communicating after a mission is over..

Some of us were testing on the Boneyard today. There seems to be a lag between client on Vista and the updating of the news on the server end.. once news updates, movement and repairs work just fine.. but when news starts generating, Vista clients crawls in hex movement and it takes 1 to 2 min to get supplies or repairs after the done button is clicked...

My suggestion is to disable news in the server and try running it.. I will attempt this on the Vista Test Server this weekend to see if there is any improvement.

anyhow.. OP is the way to go and if you want ALL the EAW and OP content in one game, get OP, and install the OP Enhancement Package v5.1

when custom servers come out, all you have to do is put in 2 files into the game, launch a mod chooser to istall the 2 files, then you can just use mod chooser and swap game modes very quickly..

anyhow.. hope that this helps.