Topic: I need some help from better qualified folks.

[I, Mudd.]

I, like many, if not all, of you have a vested interest in seeing the SFC source code opened up ... sprites.q3 ...

Of course I coulda/shoulda posted this in the other forum below, but this is an APB ... all points bulletin ...

now, firstly, I'm not a programmer, nor have I ever pretended to be one.

That said, I have been in contact with William Fisher, President of Quicksilver Software, Inc. He seems to be pretty interested in helping this community crack the code...

... but I am fully aware of my limitations in bringing the right questions to the table for him and I'm sending out a community wide SOS to get this thing resolved once and for all.

The longevity of this game is remarkable, in and of itself ... but with this information, the stars might be the limit, and everything listed in the thread about what you want to see in OP could become reality.

So ...whaddayasay?

JM.

[Centurus]

I'd personally love to get the SFC3 source code if at all possible.  OP is great, but I prefer SFC3 much better.  If the code had been finished in the first place, the game would have been far better than any of us could have thought.

[Beeblebrox]

I, like many, if not all, of you have a vested interest in seeing the SFC source code opened up ... sprites.q3 ...

Of course I coulda/shoulda posted this in the other forum below, but this is an APB ... all points bulletin ...

now, firstly, I'm not a programmer, nor have I ever pretended to be one.

That said, I have been in contact with William Fisher, President of Quicksilver Software, Inc. He seems to be pretty interested in helping this community crack the code...

... but I am fully aware of my limitations in bringing the right questions to the table for him and I'm sending out a community wide SOS to get this thing resolved once and for all.

The longevity of this game is remarkable, in and of itself ... but with this information, the stars might be the limit, and everything listed in the thread about what you want to see in OP could become reality.

So ...whaddayasay?

JM.

What's to stop anyone from just reverse engineering OP to get the code? 

[KBF-Crim]

I, like many, if not all, of you have a vested interest in seeing the SFC source code opened up ... sprites.q3 ...

Of course I coulda/shoulda posted this in the other forum below, but this is an APB ... all points bulletin ...

now, firstly, I'm not a programmer, nor have I ever pretended to be one.

That said, I have been in contact with William Fisher, President of Quicksilver Software, Inc. He seems to be pretty interested in helping this community crack the code...

... but I am fully aware of my limitations in bringing the right questions to the table for him and I'm sending out a community wide SOS to get this thing resolved once and for all.

The longevity of this game is remarkable, in and of itself ... but with this information, the stars might be the limit, and everything listed in the thread about what you want to see in OP could become reality.

So ...whaddayasay?

JM.

What's to stop anyone from just reverse engineering OP to get the code? 

Honor.

[Beeblebrox]

Honor.

"Never let your morality get in the way of doing what's right."---Beeblebrox the Elder 

But seriously, what would stop someone from taking OP apart and getting everything they want from it, changing it just enough to avoid copywrite violations, and using it as they will?  It happens constantly in the marketplace with physical products like processor chips and cell phones.  I could be mistaken but I believe it also happened with the torrent programs.  Am I being unrealistic or simply too mercenary?   

[bbarr97]

1.  Honor (as mentioned before) and legalities. 
2.  Reverse engineering is easier said then done and if you cannot directly modify the source then you are putting in cludge fixes.


Mudd,

I am interested in this process. I managed to crack the MOD file format when SFC1 came out.  Now the sprites.q3 file is a lot more complicated but I am willing to participate.  Any info/facts you have on it so far would be appreciated if you have any.  I am not sure what benefit we will get from just cracking the .q3 file though.  Will it enable people to create the weapons for Neo Tholians and andromedans?  Or will it just allow us to improve upon the interface.

It is so sad that the source for this game has been sooo elusive.

bbarr97

Honor.

"Never let your morality get in the way of doing what's right."---Beeblebrox the Elder 

But seriously, what would stop someone from taking OP apart and getting everything they want from it, changing it just enough to avoid copywrite violations, and using it as they will?  It happens constantly in the marketplace with physical products like processor chips and cell phones.  I could be mistaken but I believe it also happened with the torrent programs.  Am I being unrealistic or simply too mercenary?   

[KBF-Crim]

IMHO....cracking the sprites....along with the EAW source...should shed much light into how OP works...

We know stuff was ported over...so clearly...there is a proccess...

The great easter egg hunt.

Wish I could help....but I just fly em...I dont build em...

But I'm more than happy to crack the whip and offer up ideas...

[marstone]

wouldn't going into the EAW source code give you many insights in how sprites.q3 work.  Because you would see how the program loads and uses that file.  You should be able to get the format of the file by how source loads it and gets it ready for use.  Just the thoughts of an old but none practicing programmer.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

I think we have a forum devoted to this topic.  Could use some new posts.

[Panzergranate]

I can read asembler, especially 80x86 assembler, being an electronics engineer.

However it would take one hell of a long time and patience to pick the code apart and create a Jackson Structure (software map used by professional programmers) of the SFC game.

If I knew what it was compiled in with what compiler package, this would make life a lot simpler, as I could just decompile it, figure out the variables and draw up a Jackson Structure from that.

This isn't like reverse engineering an embedded system, which is what I'm more used to doing occasionally, it is a darn sight larger.

For you non-80x86 PC Assembly Language programmers, anywhere in the code you find a call to INT 28 will be a pixel call to the video card. Before this will be register loads for X, Y, Colour and "paper" layer (0 - 15) on the screen. On returning from the INT 28, all these will be corrupted.

The result will be a pixel appearing on the screen of specified colour at coordinates specified and on "paper" layer specifed.

That's what I can remember off hand, otherwise I need to consult the big "IBM Built In Oerating System Refernce Manual" for all the main ones.

First off, anyone else out thete know how a Jackson Structure works and is read?? Not much use making one up and folks can only read novice flow charts.

[marstone]

Larger, oh yeah.  I took a disassembler to starfleetop.exe.   Then took the assembler code from that and loaded into Microsoft word.  It was over  24000 pages long.  Not a typo, over 24 thousand pages of assember code     A bit much for me to wade through.  But it is interesting to look at in a IDA (interactive disasembler) program.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

One question- why did they release the Starfleet Command 2: Empires at War source, but feel that the Orion Pirates source couldn't be given away? EAW is from 2000 if I remember correctly, and OP is just 2001.

[Strayy]

Gentlemen... with all the hawkin about obtaining source code and the potential as to what we can do with it, ...keep in mind that a ton of dollars and research has gone into it, and that alone, along with "proprietary knowedge", patents, ect, ect are the reason(s) we dont have the OP source code, or the SFC3 source code.
We have incredible members of the Dynaverse community.... example.....Frey, who has kept the Dynaverse alive for us all... Pestalence, NuclearWessels, Firesoul, ect, ect, ect with their programming knowedge ... because of people like this, the community was given the EAW source code, knowing it would be secure, and there would be no legal repercussions from it.
I'm sure if there was any way possible, the Dynaverse organization would be given any and all access to whatever files were necessary to promoting and expanding the full potential of the SFC series, unfortunatly, good intentions dont add up to dollars, and those who would like to see their hard work blossom have their hands tied.
So, we rely on our community's hard workin genius's to continue to improve on what we have until the time comes when they'll be given the resources to take SFC..(excuse the quote, but seems appropriate) "Where no man has gone before".

[marstone]

So, we rely on our community's hard workin genius's to continue to improve on what we have until the time comes when they'll be given the resources to take SFC..(excuse the quote, but seems appropriate) "Where no man has gone before".

Oh I am willing to wait, the game will be worth playing for many, many more years.  I don't see anything on the horizon that will compete with it yet.  But a reason it is a topic among so many to get the source to these other games is this.  The more time that passes, and companies go out of buisness.  The more the likelyhood that the source will get lost to the great bit bucket.  And that would be a great shame.  Now since XC has EAW we can build OP from that if given time so OP source isn't that important really.  But for the SFC3 players, it would be nice.  But we all probably know that Activision will never give that up.  But it never hurts to wish.

I know XC people will work on what was released so the game will grow.  But you know for us not in the fold, when you are standing just at the door of the candy store, you want a better peek at the inside and maybe some samples.  Just human nature.

[marstone]

The other thing is, if everyone discusses what would be nice to add to each of the programs, when and if they come available, the powers that be will have a list of what the community would like.  They can then pick what can be done easier first, or what was asked for the most.  It is a good way to get the minds of the ones who would expand the program to think on how something could be done also.  As most of the wishes asked for would work in EAW.