Topic: Windows XP Upgrade review

[Death_Merchant]

<chuckle>
Excerpts:
 
"... numerous tasks that take a long time on Vista have been greatly speeded up. ... a lot of work has gone into making XP more reliable than its predecessor. The random program crashes and hangs appear to be a thing of the past. ... Microsoft has really outdone themselves in delivering a brand new operating system that really excels in all the areas where Vista was sub-optimal. ... no doubt whatsoever that that upgrade to XP is well worth the money. Microsoft can really pat themselves on the back for a job well done ..."

http://dotnet.org.za/codingsanity/archive/2007/12/14/review-windows-xp.aspx

[Just plain old Punisher]

I coulda told ya that. For the most part, gaming performance is quite a bit better for XP all around, regardless of hardware.

The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

[Death_Merchant]

What do I know? I'm a Mac guy...

Actually, need to install XP on my iMac cus my PC eMachine crapped out.
I'll actually need to buy XP, as Apple's Boot Camp requires a 32-bit clean (read SP2 install, not upgrade) XP

What do I buy? Isn't XP Pro nutty expensive? Like $250???

[Fedman NCC-3758]

The XP SP3 is on the way and is getting good reviews.  My reports are that SP3 will increase XP speed by 30%

It's in beta testing now.

[Just plain old Punisher]

What do I know? I'm a Mac guy...

Actually, need to install XP on my iMac cus my PC eMachine crapped out.
I'll actually need to buy XP, as Apple's Boot Camp requires a 32-bit clean (read SP2 install, not upgrade) XP

What do I buy? Isn't XP Pro nutty expensive? Like $250???

Umm don't think so. Should be like 120 bucks.

[jualdeaux]

I didn't even know you could still buy a copy in the stores. I thought the only way to get a new copy is to buy a machine from a company that still lists it as an option for a new PC.

[knightstorm]

The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar. 

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

What do I know? I'm a Mac guy...

Actually, need to install XP on my iMac cus my PC eMachine crapped out.
I'll actually need to buy XP, as Apple's Boot Camp requires a 32-bit clean (read SP2 install, not upgrade) XP

What do I buy? Isn't XP Pro nutty expensive? Like $250???

120 to 130 on ebay brand new etc. but futureshop in canada is asking 300 for pro.
Umm don't think so. Should be like 120 bucks.

[Dash Jones]

What do I know? I'm a Mac guy...

Actually, need to install XP on my iMac cus my PC eMachine crapped out.
I'll actually need to buy XP, as Apple's Boot Camp requires a 32-bit clean (read SP2 install, not upgrade) XP

What do I buy? Isn't XP Pro nutty expensive? Like $250???

The new copy of the full version is 199 USD.

For Pro it is 299.

For an upgrade it is 99 USD.

However, and here's the kicker, the upgrade I believe has the FULL version of XP.  So what I did was I use either my ME or Win98 in when the disk asks for verification of my possession of the other OS and then it installs the full version.

I've seen the upgrade version still in stores.

[Just plain old Punisher]

The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar. 

None of those time and resource hogs benefit gaming...in fact, they're resource hogs and thus BAD for gaming.

On my vista laptop I have all that nonsense turned off, including that silly AERO desktop crap.

[knightstorm]

The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar. 

None of those time and resource hogs benefit gaming...in fact, they're resource hogs and thus BAD for gaming.

On my vista laptop I have all that nonsense turned off, including that silly AERO desktop crap.

I was trying to be sarcastic by listing the useless features I never use.  I mean, who came up with the bright idea of dreamscene.  I turned it on once to see what it looked like, then turned it off when I found it drew my attention towards the background and away from where it should be.  Personally, I think the purpose of vista is to get us reacquainted with the bsod.  I've had more blue screens in the first month of vista than I had in three years of xp.

[Nemesis]

The XP SP3 is on the way and is getting good reviews.  My reports are that SP3 will increase XP speed by 30%

I find that hard to believe.  It isn't in Microsofts best interests to make XP so far out perform Vista.  Unless of course they plan to abandon Vista.

[knightstorm]

The XP SP3 is on the way and is getting good reviews.  My reports are that SP3 will increase XP speed by 30%

I find that hard to believe.  It isn't in Microsofts best interests to make XP so far out perform Vista.  Unless of course they plan to abandon Vista.

actually it could be in their best interests.  As long as they get OEMs to pre-install vista, they make twice as much money as most users are going to shell out for a copy of xp which does not seem to have dropped in price with the introduction of its replacement.  I suspect that MS may keep extending their support of xp for the remainder of vista's run to keep people buying.

[Fedman NCC-3758]

The XP SP3 is on the way and is getting good reviews.  My reports are that SP3 will increase XP speed by 30%

I find that hard to believe.  It isn't in Microsofts best interests to make XP so far out perform Vista.  Unless of course they plan to abandon Vista.

Stay tuned junior.

[Nemesis]

actually it could be in their best interests.  As long as they get OEMs to pre-install vista, they make twice as much money as most users are going to shell out for a copy of xp which does not seem to have dropped in price with the introduction of its replacement.  I suspect that MS may keep extending their support of xp for the remainder of vista's run to keep people buying.

They would have legal complaints made against them if that were the case.  People would object to paying for something they don't want just to enable them to buy what they do want.  That was already a major issue in the DOJ vs Microsoft anti-trust case and why Dell, ASUS and Walmart has begun selling Linux to home users. 

Then they would complain about not being able to play HD DVDs.  Back porting all the DRM from Vista to allow that would be a major task.  NOT back porting the DRM while allowing the playing of HD DVDs would cause more legal issues from Vista users.

I think that Microsoft must learn several things:

1/ That the OEMs who they sell to are not their real customers.  The end user IS the customer.

2/ Big Brother behaviour annoys their customers.  Stop the call home "features". 

3/ DRM progressively annoys their customers.  The MPAA and the RIAA are not their customers.  Forcing DRM on your customers to please these organizations annoys their customers

4/ Incompatibility with standards and competing products also increasingly annoys their customers

5/ Integrating things to block out competitors makes an unweildy mess with issues.  Individual programs should BE individual programs not joined together at the hip to please marketings desire to destroy competition.  Customers who don't like a specific Windows program should be able to uninstall it.  (IE and media player for two)

6/ The market has a maximum size and it is approaching that.  Indefinite income growth is not possible.  Adapt to that. 

7/ You can't successfully hijack everything new in the computer field. 

Microsofts Big Brother behaviour made me cease to buy new products from them and begin the migration to Linux (my Windows 2000 computer hasn't booted in days now). 

Others are finding that Vista is the step too far and have begun to migrate to Linux, BSD or Apple (or just stay with their old systems longer).  That is why Microsoft has been compelled to keep XP on the market longer than planned, to attempt to hold onto those customers who are saying "enough already" and "this is MY computer NOT YOURS". 

[jualdeaux]

The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar. 

If anyone wants stuff like that without giving up XP then just get the Vista Transformational pack for XP. It skins XP to look like Vista and has all that stuff as add ons. I liked the Glass skin but I turned off most of the rest of the extras.

[knightstorm]

actually it could be in their best interests.  As long as they get OEMs to pre-install vista, they make twice as much money as most users are going to shell out for a copy of xp which does not seem to have dropped in price with the introduction of its replacement.  I suspect that MS may keep extending their support of xp for the remainder of vista's run to keep people buying.

They would have legal complaints made against them if that were the case.  People would object to paying for something they don't want just to enable them to buy what they do want.  That was already a major issue in the DOJ vs Microsoft anti-trust case and why Dell, ASUS and Walmart has begun selling Linux to home users. 

Then they would complain about not being able to play HD DVDs.  Back porting all the DRM from Vista to allow that would be a major task.  NOT back porting the DRM while allowing the playing of HD DVDs would cause more legal issues from Vista users.

I think that Microsoft must learn several things:

1/ That the OEMs who they sell to are not their real customers.  The end user IS the customer.

2/ Big Brother behaviour annoys their customers.  Stop the call home "features". 

3/ DRM progressively annoys their customers.  The MPAA and the RIAA are not their customers.  Forcing DRM on your customers to please these organizations annoys their customers

4/ Incompatibility with standards and competing products also increasingly annoys their customers

5/ Integrating things to block out competitors makes an unweildy mess with issues.  Individual programs should BE individual programs not joined together at the hip to please marketings desire to destroy competition.  Customers who don't like a specific Windows program should be able to uninstall it.  (IE and media player for two)

6/ The market has a maximum size and it is approaching that.  Indefinite income growth is not possible.  Adapt to that. 

7/ You can't successfully hijack everything new in the computer field. 

Microsofts Big Brother behaviour made me cease to buy new products from them and begin the migration to Linux (my Windows 2000 computer hasn't booted in days now). 

Others are finding that Vista is the step too far and have begun to migrate to Linux, BSD or Apple (or just stay with their old systems longer).  That is why Microsoft has been compelled to keep XP on the market longer than planned, to attempt to hold onto those customers who are saying "enough already" and "this is MY computer NOT YOURS". 

I can't answer all of your points off the top of my head, but microsoft tends to push things as far as they can get away with, and then step back when it becomes clear that they've gone too far.  While their final customer is the end user, it still remains that people who are not tech savy enough to build their own systems are going to be restricted to the choices offered to them by the OEMs.  That means that because most consumers are going to have to pay for the cost of vista with the price of their computers.  While you can't successfully hijack everything new in the computer field microsoft is certainly going to try.

[Sirgod]

The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar. 

If anyone wants stuff like that without giving up XP then just get the Vista Transformational pack for XP. It skins XP to look like Vista and has all that stuff as add ons. I liked the Glass skin but I turned off most of the rest of the extras.

I just installed that yesterday actually.  I like it, and there is a few gadgets even that I like.

Stephen

[jualdeaux]

The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar. 

If anyone wants stuff like that without giving up XP then just get the Vista Transformational pack for XP. It skins XP to look like Vista and has all that stuff as add ons. I liked the Glass skin but I turned off most of the rest of the extras.

I just installed that yesterday actually.  I like it, and there is a few gadgets even that I like.

Stephen

Are you using version 8? I am sticking with 6 until I read the author has definitely fixed the compatibility with one of the MS hotfixes. I have read that it will install fine for some but crashed others' systems.

[Nemesis]

I can't answer all of your points off the top of my head, but microsoft tends to push things as far as they can get away with, and then step back when it becomes clear that they've gone too far.  While their final customer is the end user, it still remains that people who are not tech savy enough to build their own systems are going to be restricted to the choices offered to them by the OEMs.  That means that because most consumers are going to have to pay for the cost of vista with the price of their computers.  While you can't successfully hijack everything new in the computer field microsoft is certainly going to try.

The problem they have with that is that the market is not unified.  What the U.S. lets them get away with the EU and other countries are rebelling against.  Once they begin to lose whole countries their U.S. customers will see that they do have choices. 

Also they lost the DOJ vs Microsoft in the U.S. and they lost the appeal as well.  What they won there was a friend in the Whitehouse who was able to make the DOJ back pedal on the demand to break up Microsoft down to a wrist slap and little more.  That friend will be gone in a year never to return.  Next time this happens (and it will happen) will they have a friend or an enemy in the Oval office? 

There are things you may not be aware of happening around the world in regard to Microsoft. 

The One Laptop per Child (OLPC) initiative to get cheap durable laptops in the hands of poor children as part of their education.  Microsoft and Intel have tried to fight this but it seems to be gaining momentum.  It runs Linux.  Those countries will be having their 1st computer knowledgable generation grow up Microsoft free.

The Asus EEEPC not only seems to be doing well but runs Linux.  Well enough to have imitators already starting to announce their own versions.  Microsoft is attempting to get Windows XP on the EEEPC but the price is much higher.  Walmart is selling their own ($200) Linux desktop and having a hard time maintaining stock.  Dell is selling Ubuntu Linux desktop and laptops to home users and due to demand broadening their offerings and expanding them to other countries ahead of schedule.  HP is doing the same but only in Austrailia so far.

Then there is the Open Document Format (ODF).  After a strong start in the U.S. Microsoft seems to have derailed it. But it is gaining ground around the world.  They are heavily "gaming" ISO in an attempt to get their own format (OOXML) declared an ISO standard as ODF already has been.  Heavily enough that there are lawsuits and government intervention on apparent illegal acts to get pro OOXML votes cast. 

The EU has compelled Microsoft to disclose information to allow competitors to be compatible with various WIndows features (Samba for one).

In short Microsoft is motivating customers to find ways to break free and the harder they stuggle to control those customers the more they will motivate those customers to find a new supplier.