Topic: Windows XP Upgrade review  (Read 5870 times)

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Offline Death_Merchant

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Windows XP Upgrade review
« on: December 21, 2007, 03:52:21 pm »
<chuckle>
Excerpts:
 
"... numerous tasks that take a long time on Vista have been greatly speeded up. ... a lot of work has gone into making XP more reliable than its predecessor. The random program crashes and hangs appear to be a thing of the past. ... Microsoft has really outdone themselves in delivering a brand new operating system that really excels in all the areas where Vista was sub-optimal. ... no doubt whatsoever that that upgrade to XP is well worth the money. Microsoft can really pat themselves on the back for a job well done ..."

http://dotnet.org.za/codingsanity/archive/2007/12/14/review-windows-xp.aspx
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Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2007, 06:31:25 pm »
I coulda told ya that. For the most part, gaming performance is quite a bit better for XP all around, regardless of hardware.

The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

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Offline Death_Merchant

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2007, 07:07:29 pm »
What do I know? I'm a Mac guy...

Actually, need to install XP on my iMac cus my PC eMachine crapped out.
I'll actually need to buy XP, as Apple's Boot Camp requires a 32-bit clean (read SP2 install, not upgrade) XP

What do I buy? Isn't XP Pro nutty expensive? Like $250???
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Offline Fedman NCC-3758

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2007, 07:17:50 pm »

The XP SP3 is on the way and is getting good reviews.  My reports are that SP3 will increase XP speed by 30%

It's in beta testing now.

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Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2007, 08:40:08 pm »
What do I know? I'm a Mac guy...

Actually, need to install XP on my iMac cus my PC eMachine crapped out.
I'll actually need to buy XP, as Apple's Boot Camp requires a 32-bit clean (read SP2 install, not upgrade) XP

What do I buy? Isn't XP Pro nutty expensive? Like $250???

Umm don't think so. Should be like 120 bucks.

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Offline jualdeaux

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 09:41:43 am »
I didn't even know you could still buy a copy in the stores. I thought the only way to get a new copy is to buy a machine from a company that still lists it as an option for a new PC.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 11:44:19 am »
The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar.  :D

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2007, 11:46:05 am »
What do I know? I'm a Mac guy...

Actually, need to install XP on my iMac cus my PC eMachine crapped out.
I'll actually need to buy XP, as Apple's Boot Camp requires a 32-bit clean (read SP2 install, not upgrade) XP

What do I buy? Isn't XP Pro nutty expensive? Like $250???

120 to 130 on ebay brand new etc. but futureshop in canada is asking 300 for pro.
Umm don't think so. Should be like 120 bucks.
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2007, 12:25:14 pm »
What do I know? I'm a Mac guy...

Actually, need to install XP on my iMac cus my PC eMachine crapped out.
I'll actually need to buy XP, as Apple's Boot Camp requires a 32-bit clean (read SP2 install, not upgrade) XP

What do I buy? Isn't XP Pro nutty expensive? Like $250???

The new copy of the full version is 199 USD.

For Pro it is 299.

For an upgrade it is 99 USD.

However, and here's the kicker, the upgrade I believe has the FULL version of XP.  So what I did was I use either my ME or Win98 in when the disk asks for verification of my possession of the other OS and then it installs the full version.

I've seen the upgrade version still in stores.
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Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2007, 03:25:21 pm »
The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar.  :D

None of those time and resource hogs benefit gaming...in fact, they're resource hogs and thus BAD for gaming.

On my vista laptop I have all that nonsense turned off, including that silly AERO desktop crap.

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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2007, 09:55:03 pm »
The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar.  :D

None of those time and resource hogs benefit gaming...in fact, they're resource hogs and thus BAD for gaming.

On my vista laptop I have all that nonsense turned off, including that silly AERO desktop crap.

I was trying to be sarcastic by listing the useless features I never use.  I mean, who came up with the bright idea of dreamscene.  I turned it on once to see what it looked like, then turned it off when I found it drew my attention towards the background and away from where it should be.  Personally, I think the purpose of vista is to get us reacquainted with the bsod.  I've had more blue screens in the first month of vista than I had in three years of xp.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 10:09:40 pm by knightstorm »

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2007, 10:22:27 pm »

The XP SP3 is on the way and is getting good reviews.  My reports are that SP3 will increase XP speed by 30%

I find that hard to believe.  It isn't in Microsofts best interests to make XP so far out perform Vista.  Unless of course they plan to abandon Vista.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2007, 10:38:31 pm »

The XP SP3 is on the way and is getting good reviews.  My reports are that SP3 will increase XP speed by 30%

I find that hard to believe.  It isn't in Microsofts best interests to make XP so far out perform Vista.  Unless of course they plan to abandon Vista.

actually it could be in their best interests.  As long as they get OEMs to pre-install vista, they make twice as much money as most users are going to shell out for a copy of xp which does not seem to have dropped in price with the introduction of its replacement.  I suspect that MS may keep extending their support of xp for the remainder of vista's run to keep people buying.

Offline Fedman NCC-3758

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2007, 05:33:09 am »

The XP SP3 is on the way and is getting good reviews.  My reports are that SP3 will increase XP speed by 30%

I find that hard to believe.  It isn't in Microsofts best interests to make XP so far out perform Vista.  Unless of course they plan to abandon Vista.

Stay tuned junior.

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2007, 06:01:23 am »
actually it could be in their best interests.  As long as they get OEMs to pre-install vista, they make twice as much money as most users are going to shell out for a copy of xp which does not seem to have dropped in price with the introduction of its replacement.  I suspect that MS may keep extending their support of xp for the remainder of vista's run to keep people buying.

They would have legal complaints made against them if that were the case.  People would object to paying for something they don't want just to enable them to buy what they do want.  That was already a major issue in the DOJ vs Microsoft anti-trust case and why Dell, ASUS and Walmart has begun selling Linux to home users. 

Then they would complain about not being able to play HD DVDs.  Back porting all the DRM from Vista to allow that would be a major task.  NOT back porting the DRM while allowing the playing of HD DVDs would cause more legal issues from Vista users.

I think that Microsoft must learn several things:

1/ That the OEMs who they sell to are not their real customers.  The end user IS the customer.

2/ Big Brother behaviour annoys their customers.  Stop the call home "features". 

3/ DRM progressively annoys their customers.  The MPAA and the RIAA are not their customers.  Forcing DRM on your customers to please these organizations annoys their customers

4/ Incompatibility with standards and competing products also increasingly annoys their customers

5/ Integrating things to block out competitors makes an unweildy mess with issues.  Individual programs should BE individual programs not joined together at the hip to please marketings desire to destroy competition.  Customers who don't like a specific Windows program should be able to uninstall it.  (IE and media player for two)

6/ The market has a maximum size and it is approaching that.  Indefinite income growth is not possible.  Adapt to that. 

7/ You can't successfully hijack everything new in the computer field. 

Microsofts Big Brother behaviour made me cease to buy new products from them and begin the migration to Linux (my Windows 2000 computer hasn't booted in days now). 

Others are finding that Vista is the step too far and have begun to migrate to Linux, BSD or Apple (or just stay with their old systems longer).  That is why Microsoft has been compelled to keep XP on the market longer than planned, to attempt to hold onto those customers who are saying "enough already" and "this is MY computer NOT YOURS". 
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Offline jualdeaux

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2007, 07:57:35 am »
The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar.  :D

If anyone wants stuff like that without giving up XP then just get the Vista Transformational pack for XP. It skins XP to look like Vista and has all that stuff as add ons. I liked the Glass skin but I turned off most of the rest of the extras.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2007, 01:06:15 pm »
actually it could be in their best interests.  As long as they get OEMs to pre-install vista, they make twice as much money as most users are going to shell out for a copy of xp which does not seem to have dropped in price with the introduction of its replacement.  I suspect that MS may keep extending their support of xp for the remainder of vista's run to keep people buying.

They would have legal complaints made against them if that were the case.  People would object to paying for something they don't want just to enable them to buy what they do want.  That was already a major issue in the DOJ vs Microsoft anti-trust case and why Dell, ASUS and Walmart has begun selling Linux to home users. 

Then they would complain about not being able to play HD DVDs.  Back porting all the DRM from Vista to allow that would be a major task.  NOT back porting the DRM while allowing the playing of HD DVDs would cause more legal issues from Vista users.

I think that Microsoft must learn several things:

1/ That the OEMs who they sell to are not their real customers.  The end user IS the customer.

2/ Big Brother behaviour annoys their customers.  Stop the call home "features". 

3/ DRM progressively annoys their customers.  The MPAA and the RIAA are not their customers.  Forcing DRM on your customers to please these organizations annoys their customers

4/ Incompatibility with standards and competing products also increasingly annoys their customers

5/ Integrating things to block out competitors makes an unweildy mess with issues.  Individual programs should BE individual programs not joined together at the hip to please marketings desire to destroy competition.  Customers who don't like a specific Windows program should be able to uninstall it.  (IE and media player for two)

6/ The market has a maximum size and it is approaching that.  Indefinite income growth is not possible.  Adapt to that. 

7/ You can't successfully hijack everything new in the computer field. 

Microsofts Big Brother behaviour made me cease to buy new products from them and begin the migration to Linux (my Windows 2000 computer hasn't booted in days now). 

Others are finding that Vista is the step too far and have begun to migrate to Linux, BSD or Apple (or just stay with their old systems longer).  That is why Microsoft has been compelled to keep XP on the market longer than planned, to attempt to hold onto those customers who are saying "enough already" and "this is MY computer NOT YOURS". 

I can't answer all of your points off the top of my head, but microsoft tends to push things as far as they can get away with, and then step back when it becomes clear that they've gone too far.  While their final customer is the end user, it still remains that people who are not tech savy enough to build their own systems are going to be restricted to the choices offered to them by the OEMs.  That means that because most consumers are going to have to pay for the cost of vista with the price of their computers.  While you can't successfully hijack everything new in the computer field microsoft is certainly going to try.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2007, 01:37:11 pm »
The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar.  :D

If anyone wants stuff like that without giving up XP then just get the Vista Transformational pack for XP. It skins XP to look like Vista and has all that stuff as add ons. I liked the Glass skin but I turned off most of the rest of the extras.

I just installed that yesterday actually.  I like it, and there is a few gadgets even that I like.

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Offline jualdeaux

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2007, 01:41:43 pm »
The only plus side for Vista gaming is Direct X 10...and there is a lot of pressure to add that to XP.

what are you forgetting dreamscene, or what about the transparancies, or windows sidebar.  :D

If anyone wants stuff like that without giving up XP then just get the Vista Transformational pack for XP. It skins XP to look like Vista and has all that stuff as add ons. I liked the Glass skin but I turned off most of the rest of the extras.

I just installed that yesterday actually.  I like it, and there is a few gadgets even that I like.

Stephen

Are you using version 8? I am sticking with 6 until I read the author has definitely fixed the compatibility with one of the MS hotfixes. I have read that it will install fine for some but crashed others' systems.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2007, 06:55:10 pm »
I can't answer all of your points off the top of my head, but microsoft tends to push things as far as they can get away with, and then step back when it becomes clear that they've gone too far.  While their final customer is the end user, it still remains that people who are not tech savy enough to build their own systems are going to be restricted to the choices offered to them by the OEMs.  That means that because most consumers are going to have to pay for the cost of vista with the price of their computers.  While you can't successfully hijack everything new in the computer field microsoft is certainly going to try.


The problem they have with that is that the market is not unified.  What the U.S. lets them get away with the EU and other countries are rebelling against.  Once they begin to lose whole countries their U.S. customers will see that they do have choices. 

Also they lost the DOJ vs Microsoft in the U.S. and they lost the appeal as well.  What they won there was a friend in the Whitehouse who was able to make the DOJ back pedal on the demand to break up Microsoft down to a wrist slap and little more.  That friend will be gone in a year never to return.  Next time this happens (and it will happen) will they have a friend or an enemy in the Oval office? 

There are things you may not be aware of happening around the world in regard to Microsoft. 

The One Laptop per Child (OLPC) initiative to get cheap durable laptops in the hands of poor children as part of their education.  Microsoft and Intel have tried to fight this but it seems to be gaining momentum.  It runs Linux.  Those countries will be having their 1st computer knowledgable generation grow up Microsoft free.

The Asus EEEPC not only seems to be doing well but runs Linux.  Well enough to have imitators already starting to announce their own versions.  Microsoft is attempting to get Windows XP on the EEEPC but the price is much higher.  Walmart is selling their own ($200) Linux desktop and having a hard time maintaining stock.  Dell is selling Ubuntu Linux desktop and laptops to home users and due to demand broadening their offerings and expanding them to other countries ahead of schedule.  HP is doing the same but only in Austrailia so far.

Then there is the Open Document Format (ODF).  After a strong start in the U.S. Microsoft seems to have derailed it. But it is gaining ground around the world.  They are heavily "gaming" ISO in an attempt to get their own format (OOXML) declared an ISO standard as ODF already has been.  Heavily enough that there are lawsuits and government intervention on apparent illegal acts to get pro OOXML votes cast. 

The EU has compelled Microsoft to disclose information to allow competitors to be compatible with various WIndows features (Samba for one).

In short Microsoft is motivating customers to find ways to break free and the harder they stuggle to control those customers the more they will motivate those customers to find a new supplier.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2007, 10:11:40 pm »
I don't think one laptop per child will have a major effect.  Most of those low cost laptops are going to end up pilfered and sold on ebay.  Assuming they Also, while the current administration may be more conciliatory than the previous one, I doubt that any subsequent administration will change their policy for the foreseeable future.  Compared with fighting terrorism, anti-trust litigation is not going to be a high priority.  Maybe in ten years the situation will change.  As for the eeepc, the fact that it can run other OS' isn't going to really put a dent in MS.  In the 80s and 90s, apple still had market share American schools purchased lots of apple IIs, and later macs.  Most of the children who learned to use computers on those machines, myself included grew up to be windows users.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2007, 09:53:51 am »
Quote
I don't think one laptop per child will have a major effect. 

It already has.  The EEEPC (forecast sales 1st year 4,000,000 units), the Intel Classmate, the Everex system sold by Walmart are all reactions to the OLPC.  Intel originally shrugged it off as impractical.  The Classmate (with Linux was their response).

Microsoft has been reacting as well after initially ignoring then attacking the practicality of the OLPC.  The pressure to put Windows XP on the EEEPC, on the Classmate and on the OLPC are examples of it.  The 3 dollar XP in the Orient is another reaction.  Microsoft fears Linux and low cost PCs.  How do you justify selling an EEEPC for $400 without Microsoft products and $1000 with them?

Quote
Most of those low cost laptops are going to end up pilfered and sold on ebay. 

I doubt it.  Some will but not the majority. 

For one thing it has a security system that the owner (which is not the student/child) can activate which will "brick" the machine after 2 weeks.  Also those with the machines would have a hard time collecting money from an E-Bay sale I think.

Another thing is the appearance of the machine is distinctive but not exactly what I would call attractive.  Machines like the EEEPC will compete against the E-bay sales and I would prefer the EEEPC over the OLPC for personal use.

Quote
Assuming they Also, while the current administration may be more conciliatory than the previous one, I doubt that any subsequent administration will change their policy for the foreseeable future.  Compared with fighting terrorism, anti-trust litigation is not going to be a high priority. 

The thing is that Bush established the policy soon after taking office and then likely did little.  A successor need only indicate a change in policy and let the DOJ go back to being aggressive.  The President need not be directly involved with any of the cases.

The two don't use the same resources.  The DOJ isn't as much involved with the anti-terrorism as are such bodies as the CIA and FBI and those bodies are not involved much with the anti-trust. 

Quote
As for the eeepc, the fact that it can run other OS' isn't going to really put a dent in MS.  In the 80s and 90s, apple still had market share American schools purchased lots of apple IIs, and later macs.  Most of the children who learned to use computers on those machines, myself included grew up to be windows users.

The situations are not comparable.

The situation then:

Apple changed about that time. The Apple II was a home machine and used somewhat in schools and business but they were not seen as a business computer.  The Apple III had "issues" and failed.  The Lisa was business targeted and expensive and failed.  The Macintosh abandoned all the things that made the Apple II popular with the home market and targeted businesses.  Those businesses did not know Apple or respect it.  A major mistake in my opinion.  It also was totally transformed from the older computers and what you learned on an Apple II didn't migrate to the Mac.

IBM on the other hand was a known quantity to businesses and was designed with many of the same principles that the Apple II had but the Mac had abandoned.  IBM was at the height of their power as well.  They were facing an anti-trust suit but it never went to trial and therefore they never lost it.  Only when the anti-trust was dropped did they return to the behaviour that brought the suit on in the first place.  Then with MCA and OS/2 they lost that power in the microcomputer business.  It was that renewed attempt to domineer and control that broke IBM's power. 

The situation now:

Microsoft is in the Apple position but they have lost multiple anti-trust cases in multiple nations.  They are behaving much more like IBM did when they were trying to control the industry with MCA and OS/2.  IBM failed you will recall.  Vista instead of being the mechanism of dominance is doing poorly enough that XP is having to be continued on offer by Microsoft to maintain their sales levels.  Microsofts control fetish will be their downfall as it was IBM'S 20 years ago.

Linux on the other hand is in the IBM situation.  Like IBM who was recognized by businesses from their larger computers, Linux with its compatibility with Unix standard is a known thing.  Linux is growing (Redhat just had a year over year profit increase of 39% for example).  That growth in the face of the dominant position that Microsoft has is significant.  Microsofts ability to dominate is far beyond what Apple had so it is much slower but progress is still occurring. 

Those who like myself want to control our systems and not have them held hostage to Microsofts activation/deactivation abandon Windows. 

Businesses that want/need to reduce costs abandon Windows either wholly or in part. 

Businesses that cannot - by law - allow the remote access that Microsoft has been implementing must abandon Windows. 

Governments in many countries have mandated by law to have documents available without restriction but if they use the MS formats then they are violating those laws as they require Microsoft Office and Windows.    That is why ODF is important as it can be implemented by anyone and therefore you get to choose what software to use and what OS not the government. 

As ODF is adopted by governments those (mostly big) businesses that deal with them will have to adopt ODF as well.  As they do so the requirement to use MS Office and MS Windows vanishes.  The opportunity to cut costs by using Linux and Linux software becomes practical.  Those same big businesses do business with smaller companies and they will of course mandate ODF which migrates the opportunity to break away from MS dominance down the food chain, step by step all the way to the bottom.

Do I think Microsoft will be destroyed?  No.  Do I think they will lose their absolute market dominance?  Yes.

I don't think any one year will be the "Year of Linux" just as in spite of forecasts to the contrary there was never a "Year of the Network".  I think that it will happen just like networking did.  It will move in slowly, step by step until it is all around us.  These current things I have listed are just among the steps of the 2nd stage.  More will be coming. 
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2007, 12:48:29 pm »
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It already has.  The EEEPC (forecast sales 1st year 4,000,000 units), the Intel Classmate, the Everex system sold by Walmart are all reactions to the OLPC.  Intel originally shrugged it off as impractical.  The Classmate (with Linux was their response).

Microsoft has been reacting as well after initially ignoring then attacking the practicality of the OLPC.  The pressure to put Windows XP on the EEEPC, on the Classmate and on the OLPC are examples of it.  The 3 dollar XP in the Orient is another reaction.  Microsoft fears Linux and low cost PCs.  How do you justify selling an EEEPC for $400 without Microsoft products and $1000 with them?
I don't expect the OLPC to have a major social impact in the countries where the program is implemented.  As for your faith in its security, consider the fact that hackers have managed to get through apples security and make the intel versions of OSX run on non apple hardware.  Hackers have also been able to get past microsofts attempts to secure XP against piracy.  I really don't have much faith in the OLPC's anti theft measures.  The cheap versions of xp in the orient have nothing to do with OLPC.  They have to do with microsoft providing consumers there with an alternative to pirating its software.  likewise microsoft is offering a cheap stripped down version of windows for the EEEPC.

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The two don't use the same resources.  The DOJ isn't as much involved with the anti-terrorism as are such bodies as the CIA and FBI and those bodies are not involved much with the anti-trust. 

The FBI is a part of the DOJ.  Also the same resources are being used in the sense that the DOJ has to set a budget.  Compared with counter-terrorism areas like anti-trust are going to get the short end of the stick for the time being.

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Apple changed about that time. The Apple II was a home machine and used somewhat in schools and business but they were not seen as a business computer.  The Apple III had "issues" and failed.  The Lisa was business targeted and expensive and failed.  The Macintosh abandoned all the things that made the Apple II popular with the home market and targeted businesses.  Those businesses did not know Apple or respect it.  A major mistake in my opinion.  It also was totally transformed from the older computers and what you learned on an Apple II didn't migrate to the Mac.
I guess you misunderstood my statement.  My school district like many others had a relationship with apple from all the apple IIs it bought, so when the time came to upgrade they chose to go with macs.  As a result, I ended up using a mac through high school.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 01:00:26 pm by knightstorm »

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Windows XP Upgrade review
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2007, 04:19:32 pm »
Well considering everything I have read or heard, I just ordered a new rig today with XP pro on it instead of vista.
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