Topic: Tactical roles in SFB / SFC that need filling.

[Panzergranate]

For those of you who don't know me, I run an SFC 1 LAN campaign with friends and this occasionally brings up situations where there isn't a right ship for the job.

SFB is always adding new warships, freighters, tugs, pods, shuttles, fighters, PFs, satelites, stations,  objects amd variants to attempt to fill in operational gaps in larger, "big picture", scale of game play, plus to add some more shades of colour into scenario scripts.

This isn't a post for request for yet more big battle cruisers, as if we aren't spoil for choice already on Battle Clinic, but an attempt to ask folks to come up with novel suggestions for possible new model projects.

It might be a suggestion for a modified freighter to perform an essential task, but at a lower BPV than using a warship hull. For instance the Klingons prefer to use Auxilary CV and CVAs, both heavily converted and seriously up gunned freighers than waste warship hulls on D5V, D6V and D7V carriers. The Auxilaries have a greater fighter capacity as well.

I'd like to see a specialist BOP converted for special ops so that it can "dust off" a pod or vehicle plus commandoes straight onto a planet's surface in a few seconds and from cloak.

That's the sort of original thinking that I'd like to see put up for discussion.

Some might only take a few minutes to create in the shiplist with Ship Edit using an existing hull or just be a shiplist idea looking for a suitable model to be created for it.

Or it could be a suggestion for a interstellar pitza delivery ship, a beer tanker, etc..

Post it up and everyone can dicuss the concept.

Modellers are alway looking for inspiration.

Star Fleet Battles has been running player suggestion forums since the beginning in 1979, and in playing SFC you are using some of those older player inventions and sugestions when using a stock game ship.

So, I figure, instead of modellers and ship list modders using SFB hand-me-downs from the SFB rules and websites, why don't we SFC gamers suggest our own stuff??

Perhaps SFB will start taking the ideas and lead from the SFC sister universe instead of vice versa, for a change!!

[Beeblebrox]

I wouldn't mind seeing a genuine photon torpedo bombardment cruiser.  It would have 8, or possibly 10, torpedoes with 2 of them covering the rear.  Phasers would be limited to either a cluster of 4 phaser 3s in the early era and to a cluster of 2 phaser Gs.  The bombardment cruiser would have a hardpoint with 4 AMD slots.  I'm unsure whether something like this would be a light or a heavy cruiser.

[Panzergranate]

The TMP period Ford Class PT destroyer mounts 8 forward and 8 aft Photons.

I made a model of one from a diagram from a kitbashed stock Miranda Class. Twin 16 box LN64 engines, 2 Impluse and 4 APR just about cope with the power requirements of 16 tubes and 6 Ph1 in SFC 1. Like I said, only just.

The Abbe Class, that replaced it, does the job better having double fire tubes instead of standard single shots.

It does look kind of nice watching a massive salvo of Photons whizzing out from an Abbe Class or Ford Class PT destroyers towards some unfortunate target.

A cruiser hull would accomodate more tubes and reactors, but this would be ofset by the increased movement cost of the larger hull.

An Empress Class CHW heavy war cruiser, a non-exploration version of the Enterprise Class, mounts an extra pair of tubes under the secondary hull front and another pair under the stern. I did a model of a CHW for SFC 1 and it wouldn't take much to add another pair of forward facing tubes on either side of the seconadary hull.

Unfortunately, I had to strip out some Lab boxes, which aid shields, to add in the extra APR on the CHW to make it viable in SFC, so finding something else to strip out to give the extra 4 more APR boxes to charge and hold 4 extra tubes.

That's the general rule with SFB conversions, to add something into a hull, you have to compromise and balance by taking somethng out. 

Try an experiment by adding 6 extra tubes to a CA hull, add 1 box to each engine to represent LN64 engines and see how it flies. Then, try stripping out system boxes and replacing them with just enough APR to allow speed 31 to be attained with all tubes charged.

Good idea though.

[KBF MalaK]

I did an unreleased ship for BC (Unreleased because I never quite finished the Bridge) something like a KR cruiser with a 'drop pod' for planetary takeovers (a few hundred troops and a dozen or so vehicles). I later added a CV pod (2 squads of assault shuttles with support staff) and a generic cargo pod, all done with the build point system from SFB.

But SFC never had any way to use landing craft, did it ??

In fact my pic (below) shows a very early working model (less a pod) but my cloaked mines we're so powerful that 4 would take out a feddie starbase, so I shelved the entire project (c'ept the base ship)

[Panzergranate]

We run campaigns here, so anything that can deliver troops to a planet effieciently is always welcome in our branch of the Klingon Empire!!

If we manage to make it close enough to make one orbit of a planet with one of Atra's N6 or T7 or a D5G or D5H in a campaign game scenario, we could that as a clean pod seperation and landing. This might make for a good rule for all scenarios where players want to determine what defines a pod speration and landing in SFC. It gives the enemy time to prevent the attempt.

The campaign computer does the number crunching in rather the same way as ground actions were reduced to dies roles in SFB either during or aftre a mission.

As with all groud wars, the more you can deliver, the better the odds are for success!!

You can only gain system space domination with star ships, it takes armies to capture and occupy a large inhabited world.

We have towed detached pods close to an objective and left them to make an orbit on Impulse Power whilst the tug took part in the battle. That's as near to pod seperation that we could simulate.

In our last campaign the Lyrans made extensive use of the damned (Kliingon player typing this) scout cruiser and troop pallet for hit and run raids. Under our camapign system, scouts and scout cruisers in particular have an abilty to see patrols before they are seen and can mask they're Warp signatures. In the Lyran scout cruiser instance, this made it the perfect raider, being also able to carry a troop pallet. They were always more than a match for PFs, gunboats and skiffs valiantly attempting to defend an instalation, etc.

We ended up diverting more and more needed at the front cruisers to hunt the things down, and there were dozens of them performing hit and run raids behind our front lines. In that campaign tactical sense, they fulfilled two missions, in that they crippled our war effort and weakened our front line cruiser force.

You'd have to be involve in a campaign to understand what a damned effective nuisance the brilliant Lyran scout cruiser really is.

So long as its cheaper on BPV or more effective than a N6 or T7 inthe same role, we won't say no to any troop pod lander here, especially Klingon.

As we're in the process of avoiding loosing a campaign against the Kzinti, three of us in the campaign aren't so welcoming of any Kzinti troop carriers as they're doing enough damage with the LTT and tugs that they already have.

I'm knd of honour bound to let the other side have any ships that they or I turn up that are Kzinti into the campaign. Needless to say, whoever it was who modelled the Kzinti SCS and SSCS, we are not very happy with you!!

At the opposite end of the Kzinti warship scale is the frigate. Efectiveness in combat against any other race frigate....

A new Kzinti frigate might be an idea but not yet as we like the existing one.

 

 

[3dot14]

I wouldn't mind seeing a genuine photon torpedo bombardment cruiser.  It would have 8, or possibly 10, torpedoes with 2 of them covering the rear.  Phasers would be limited to either a cluster of 4 phaser 3s in the early era and to a cluster of 2 phaser Gs.  The bombardment cruiser would have a hardpoint with 4 AMD slots.  I'm unsure whether something like this would be a light or a heavy cruiser.

That reminds me of the CFS, and the plus variant (Fire Support Cruiser) in SFC1. It has I think 7 tubes mounted at weird angles for a CC hull. (Well it's not weird if you keep orbiting a stationary target, but weird in all other roles)
That was a fun ship (I don't mean a winning or uber powerful ship, it's just funny.) Even tho a pair of those ships of those can actually be pretty creepy. (one holds a couple overload, the other fire proxy modes.) But ultimately it's just not built for close combat, and would lose on turning and firing arcs.

On a purely irrelevant note, I believe that in SFB lore, there is an upper limit of the amount of Photons you can put on Cruisers. the BCJ is pushing the envelope, but I believe there are rules in SFB that says you have a chance of suffering a breakdown every time a BCJ fires a photon. (Similar to the R-KHK's plasR restriction.)

But anyway, 8 torpedos would be too much for any ship (tho not apparently the BB...) Something like that are best preserved for weapon platforms...

[Panzergranate]

I have a model of a BCJ from the early 1980's and the seconadry hull is larger than a CA's.

The limiting factor is always power demands, as with SSDs you had to take something out to put something else in.

The Hydrans have a one side firing mass Hellbore pod to attach to the Caravan Tug for circling starbases and chewing them up. I added it into SFC and it is quite interesting to see what a 6 x Hellbore salvo, repeated at regular intervals, or a stagared constant barrage does to a starbase or battlestation.

I don't know  if the CFS was inspied by this but it isn't as good.

I was looking up some of the other bizare nasties in SFB last night.

The Kzinti Drone Captor Mine, something that could easily be shiplisted into all versions of SFC. they can also be deployed in scenarios using Eagle Soft's FMSE script writer.

This device tractors you at maxiimum power and then bombard you with Drones. "Ah", your say, "I'll just blast it into oblivion!!". Bad idea as it makes one hell of a bang if blown up and your satrship is right next to it!!

Orion Snare Mine. This device might be desguised as a pod or something interesting or just as it is. It grabs your freighter (that's the aim) and just holds it their until the waiting in hiding Orion pirate comes to collect you. Again the mine is a huge bomb so firing on it, if you're a freighter with weak shields,  is not smart.

Romulan Cloaked Decoy. This is a robot shuttle, deployed at the start of the scenario and appeares to be exactly the same class and type of ship as the real ship when cloaked. In effect the opposing player has a choice of two targets.

The decoy can be set to trundle off towards something and hopefully the opposing player or AI will chase it down. Meanwhle the real ship completes the mission.

Three ways of detcting the decoy are shooting it as it is a one hit wonder, firing a probe at it or being so close as to scan it and see that it just doesn't have the innards to be a real ship. Meanwhile the real Romulan ship is....

A humours weapon I'd like to see.... The Stasis Transporter Fart!!

Really strong farts are stored in stasis tubes, for crew safety, and in times of combat are loaded into a soecial mini-transporter.

When the opportunity arrises, due to shield failure / dropping on the target ship, the mini-transporter targets the enemy ship's bridge, the exact coordinates infront of the enmy captain's face and transports the fart from the stasis tube straight to these coordnates. The desired effet is to leave the enmy captain choking and unable to issue commands whilst the bridge is forced to be evacuated.

Note that on the bridge of a Pakled ship, they'd simply open a window!!

 

[Czar Mohab]

Personally, there are only a few types of ships I'd like to see added to SFB/SFC.

1.) Captured/converted: Empire A captured (or possibly captured many) ship from Empire B. Empire A strips it of Empire B's technology and adds in their own. Ex: C7 w/ photons vice disruptors; AWR vice APR, etc. SFB has a few, and they are few and far between. I'd assume that once an empire captured a sufficient number of enemy ships for study, they might just convert a few for their own needs. Besides, who says that pirates don't already do that?

2.) Hybrids: Would most likely have to be on ships from the same empire; however, could also be cross-empired (see Tholian PC based ships, including TDK). An example would be something like the saucer from a GS and the secondary hull from a BC. I don't know how well that would work in game play terms, or exactly what pieces would fit with with which parts, but there could be some interesting combinations.

3.) Mistakes: Every empire has to have had a few ships that didn't make the cut, prototypes that were not chosen because of a cheaper or more efficient design; or possibly the ships were too specialized for their roles. Perhaps a mistake at the yard added some extra space to a standard hull, leaving room for an extra system or two; or even a new design that wasn't planned. I'm sure someone out there has a scratch pad SSD or two.

4.) More X-tech ships: Module X1 describes how X-tech wasn't feasible in BCH, DW, ect. hulls because the hull types had already been pushed to the limit. Y1 showed us that early years tech came in two flavors, converted to use ships and new designs specifically for the new (yet, really really old) tech; so why aren't there more new designs for X-Tech? SFB, IIRC, doesn't go too far beyond Y200, so that would be a great excuse for those fine people at ADB, but why can't we come up with some killer X-Tech designs?

Czar "Anyone wanna mod my Cerberus, Mistaken hybrid of the X variety?" Mohab, who wouldn't mind pirating a beer tanker or two...

[Panzergranate]

I modelled and added into my SFC1, the Orion D6 / Raider hybrid, though I only had the counter profile to go on.

The ships is from SFB Volume.III. rules boxed set.

This is a recovered and repaired D6 secondary hull with a Light Raider hull, minus engines, grafted on in front. Works quite well.

I have it replacing the Orion CA3+ in campaign games.

E-mail me if you want it.

Numerous modellers have posted up the Orion Double Raider in variuos shipyards for SFC 1, SFC 2 and SFC OP.

There is also a Klingon - Tholian hybrid using a D6 secondary hull and a Tholian Police Cruiser, still with Warp engine, attached to the front. In service just before the Neo-Thololians showed up.

The Tholians gained experinece and the tchnology to produce Disrupters from capturing the D6. The ship retains all of its Klingon armaments but the Police Cruiser looses its web generator to be replaced by another Disrupter.

Yep, I made a model to try it out in SFC 1.
 
The Orions use freighters from all races so as to not arouse suspicion when fencing stolen goods, infiltrating convoys and gathering intelligence for whatever cartel they operate under. There are a few SFB scenarios involving Orion Pirate Freighters.

If you dig around on the SFB official and unofficial SSD websites, you'll come up with technology conversions for captured ships.

My Hydrans have captured Klingon E3 and E4 escort frigates converted to Hydran technology.

Th two races known to never use captured enemy warships, apart for special mission involving deception, are the ISC and the Gorns. Normally both races will scrap captured ships for the raw materials.

[Verroc]

Panzergranate you run an sfc 1 campaign? You need any roms?

[Panzergranate]

I run a SFC 1 campaign on LAN at home and we have been fighting a fierce Klingon - Kzinti campaign since October, with quite huge casultie lists (mainly Klingon, unfortunately) until recently, when we adopted new tactics, fleet and squadron formations.

I might plan a Gorn - Romulan campaign after this, though Gorn models of proper Gorn ships (not the ughly blocky things that come with the game) are thin on the gorund.

I wrote a FMSE skirmish script, a few weeks ago, and had a Romulan "Cloaked  Decoy" from SFB in it.

I then let my unsuspecting 17 year old son play it. All he had to do was protect 3 x Fed freighters from a lone Sparrowhawk.

Moments into the game he spots what he thinks is the AI Rommie, pedalling at speed 12, towards a planet directly in the path of the convoy, and so breaks off to intercept and engage. Heeventually catches up and is surprised when his Phasers kill the Rommie even before his Photon Salvo hits it!!

Meanwhile, range 100 and a bit behind him, the real Rommie makes its attack!!

Gorns.... superiour firepower and Marines, Rommies.... cloaking and devious weapons technology!! MIght make for a good LAN campaign.

I have kitted out both sides with all the correct SFB ship models, just in case everyone decides that this should be the next LAN campaign bout.

I don't know if anyone still runs a SFC 1 online server anymore, which is why we set up to play on LAN.

LAN does allow players to run more than one ship, and now with FMSE scenarios, we have had some players running 6 ship flotillas, though keeping an eye on all AI ships is difficult. Generally PFs are run as a 6 ship player side, due to the game speed suffering if to many texture and vertice rich models are run.

Rigging up a LAN between two PCs isn't difficult, as even a serial null modem link will allow for some interesting both allied or oposing games to be fought.

The next step is to use a router and have friends come on over.

We use obstelete year or two old ex-office computers fished out of skips. The ones that IT people can't fix, but real electronics engineers can.

Finding monitors is the problem though game quality on a monitor is far better and less tiresome on the eye than using a laptop.

Above all, we never used the master SFC 1 game disc, it's too precious to risk a scratch, so we always use a backup copies in the machines, which, so long as they never leave this address, are within the terms of the user licence agreement.

The other thing is that all the shiplists or SFBSPC13.TXT have to be the same, as calling up any ship that isn't on one of the other machines, will crash all the computers out of the game, which'll need to be rebooted to reset the memory allocation error that subsequently follows a SFC 1 crash.

Therefore, a common campaign ship list is on all 6 machines, which is agreed on by all players on both sides.