Topic: Anyone else have a conflict with Milkshape & their IP software?

[Red_Green]

I switched to DSL about 2 years ago and found through the process of elimination of other software, that Milkshape and my IP software don't get along with each other. There are 2 games that also don't work with my IP software. One is Port Royale 2 and the other I can't remember. It probably has to do with both software trying to access the same memory. Has this happened to anyone else and if so is it a case of SOL or is there a work around of some kind?

Regardless I am sticking with my IP cause there is no way I am going back to dial up.

[Rod ONeal]

What do you mean by "don't get along"? I'm lost on what the operation of MS3D has to do with your IP provider.

[Jay1886]

It seems that in example in some parts of the UK at least DSL users have to use software for their modem, a program which keeps the monitor running and connected instead of just connecting like ordinary DSL. If this is the case it may conflict with MS3D. There is a history of milkshape conflicting with anti-virus programs also, which is usually quickly denied by fanboys who claim it's a case of key-generating. Apparantly it's ways of finding wether or not you use a legimate version get confused by some internet using programs.

[Red_Green]

What do you mean by "don't get along"? I'm lost on what the operation of MS3D has to do with your IP provider.

By don't get along. I mean shortly after I start Milkshape I get an error message. I have a clean back up image on my hard drive that does not have my IP software loaded yet. If I use this clean image then milkshape will load fine, however as soon as  my DSL software is installed I get the error messgae again. Have you not ever had conflicting software problems before?

With the Game Port Royale, the game hangs on the selection screen and the mouse is froze as well. The solution is the same, clean install without the IP software and the game loads fine. The other game that won't load with my IP software installed is called "Shawdow". It seems as though my IP software is a memory hog or something seeing as it conflicts with so many other programs.

All my software is legite by the way. In fact I bought a second copy of Port Royal when this 1st happened thinking that perhaps the diak had maybe got scratched, but like I said after using a clean install and then reloading my IP software I determined that its my IP software that was conflicting with the 3 pregrams I have mentioned.

By the way I am not online when I try to use the other programs. Just having the IP software installed is causing the problem. I was hoping there would be a way to deactivate my IP software when I was not online so I wouldn't need to reimage my hard drive with a clean install to use Milkshape. Not too worried about the games because I never got into Shadow & Port Royal is a bit dated.

[Red_Green]

I am not familiar with peerguardian2. Does that help isolate the 2 programs so they play nice together? I am in the habit of re-imaging my HD anyway from time to time but my HD is getting full and soon won't have room for multiple back up images. Thanks for the reply, I can always result to using duct tape if all else fails- that will fix anything.

[Rod ONeal]

I guess that I'm just lucky, or something. I've never had a program interfere with the operation of another. Possibly because I install My OS and IP software on a different partition than my other programs? Not sure really.

[Garath9]

i have a similar problem with max, my soultion repartion hd and use 2 os' 

[Jay1886]

This is what I was looking for:

MilkShape3D (http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/) is a low cost, high performance modelling program used by lots of different mod teams and budding modellers throughout the world.  When I say low cost I mean it - $25.00 a copy.  Compare this to discreet's product line (http://www.discreet.com/products/3dsmax/) or Alias Wavefront's product line (http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/products/maya/index.shtml); 3DS Max student copies start at $450.00 USD.  Maya student copies start at $600.00 USD.  MilkShape allows you to produce models with no commercial usage limitations.  The student copies which I compare it to have stringent commercial usage limitations.

MilkShape does not do everything that 3DS Max and Maya do.  To claim that is folly.  It does allow a user to get comfortable with the interface, and it does allow the user to understand modelling concepts without the requirement of pirating or purchasing thousands of dollars in software.

Now that I've extolled the values of MilkShape3D, let me begin to explain to you why I have a problem with it.  I use MS3D for one purpose only.  That purpose is to decompile existing Half Life models and import them into other 3D programs for analysis and recreation.  In the particular case I'm referring to I was working on a port from a Half Life mod (http://www.valvesoftware.com) to Unreal Tournament 2003 (http://www.unrealtournament2003.com).  The original mod team did not have the original files available for all the models I wanted to play with and so I began the decompilation process.

During the course of this process I noticed my copy of MilkShape3D was expired.  I am a rabid fan of shareware and supporting it so I decided that despite the fact that MS3D's model decompilation process didn't require registration (Use Tools -> Half Life -> Decompile Normal Half Life Model instead of Tools -> Kratisto's HL MDL Decompiler) that I would support this program and I would register it.

And my problems began.  I am a self sufficient geek.  I do not use tech support services of any sort if I can avoid it.  When I attempted to register MS3D with my registration code it wouldn't take.  It informed me that I should run MS3D for one to two minutes and try again.  So I did.  No go.  The first thing to do IMHO on the Win32 platform is to start over.  So I uninstalled MS3D and reinstalled it - yet the error remained.

At this point I was becoming curious.  I opened up the fabulous tools from SysInternals (http://www.sysinternals.com) Filemon and Regmon to see what activity was taking place.  I started up MS3D.

Regmon disappeared.  Huh?

Start Regmon again.  Thirty seconds later it was gone.

I've had MilkShape on my system long enough that I didn't know what the terms of the end user license agreement were.  So I decided to check.  I reran the installer to see what I had, inadvertently, clicked through to see if I had granted MilkShape3D the right to shut software done on my computer.

There was no EULA.

I installed it again and checked the program directory.  There is no EULA there, either.

MilkShape3D was shutting software down on my computer and I had not given it permission to do so.

What else does this software do?  What information, if any, does it report to the programmer?  What happens if I type in my code wrong five times; do I get a formatted hard drive?

Why does this matter?

Consider a situation fairly common in the free (1)software world.  A programmer decides that he doesn't like Microsoft or their products so he decides that he wants to uninstall competing software.  Or, a more common scenario, the installation of adware uninstalls AdAware or similar components.  These programs do these actions with an EULA that we are required to supposedly read and click through.

MilkShape doesn't even put forward that pretense.  It just does what it likes to protect it's intellectual rights.  In one way MilkShape3D gets it right - without an EULA the only laws protecting it are copyright laws, the ones that forbid distribution of a product soley based on the fact that you only own one copy of it.  That's a Good Thing.  To decide to shut down running software on another person's machine, however, without notification to that individual (not even a message box stating that MilkShape3D doesn't want that program running) is in my book opening Pandora's Box.

At this point in time I admit I became somewhat of a zealot and an idiot.  I posted in the official forums about my problem.  The responses astounded me.  I was accused of trying to crack the software ($25.00 is roughly one half hour of work for me.  I assure you it's not a worthy endeavor once you do a cost-benefit analysis), that the closure of Regmon was just a bug, a paranoid fantasy of mine, to receiving threats of being email bombed by the forum goers.

Their responses were along the lines of "Why do I care?"  This is the response of a standard end user who doesn't see long term.  One poster even went so far as to say "I'll care about copy protection when they copy protect my food and drink."  These individuals are the reasons why the RIAA and Microsoft can do as they will; they are mindless drones who refuse to think on their own.  How will you live long enough to protest the action?  You won't.  Another response was "No one forced you to download MilkShape."  No, you're correct.  In the end my friends and I came to the consensus that not a single person there understood the point I was trying to get across.  They simply assumed that I was a criminal attempting to get access to the information that MilkShape stores.  (As a side note I now own 11 copies of MilkShape, copies purchased to attempt to get the people there to understand my point that this was an argument based on principle, not based on lack of money or the intent to commit criminal activity.)

This type of activity cannot be condoned by the technological community.  It must be stopped, protested.  You have no idea what MS3D does on your computer - you trust that it behaves responsibly.  Actions like this show that it will not do so.

For those who think this may be a bug a simple project:  create an empty Windows form project, no code, with a title matching "Registry Monitor - Sysinternals:  www.sysinternals.com".  Run MilkShape3D and watch it go away.

Copy protection is a waste of money.  If you protect it others will come and find a way to break that protection.  There is no viable reason to protect your software in my mind.  There is, also, a difference between protecting your software and activities that can be construed as destructive to protect your software.  Cracks for MilkShape3D exist all over; you can hexedit Regmon and change the window name and it runs fine; you can compile Regmon from old source and change the title and it runs fine.  To me the refusal to remove this sort of protection only points to the definitive possibility of additional protections having been implemented, and hidden.

My test project is available for those of you with the .NET framework at http://www.tdsfa.org/trystan/setup.exe.  It is extremely simple, source code is included for those who think I've contrived a method for the program to shut itself down.  (Basically, there IS no source.)  Again, this program requires the .NET Framework 1.0+ to run.

(1) I use the term "free software" to mean any software publicly available but without source code.  "Open source" software would allow you to see what goes on under the hood and could be examined at any time by any user to determine that there was no malicious actions.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/4/8/11832/69816

[Smiley]

Are you using a USB modem instead of a router? That's the only situation which I've encountered a requirement from an ISP to install software to use their connection (ignoring crappy AOL).

I'd recommend using a router instead of a USB modem, then you shouldn't need any software at all. If you get a decent one with firewall, etc you can move some of the processing load from your PC to the router hardware as you won't need as much security software running.

[Cyberkada]

Are you using 1.8.1b?  Milkshape claims that the problem is "fixed".
 

[Rod ONeal]

You're correct, Cyberkada. Note the date on the article, 2003. This was done to protect the copyright of milkshape from hackers. This "feature" was removed quite sometime ago. There is also a EULA now.