Topic: Something that's being deliberately ignored!!

[Sirgod]

The lame "Carbon Neutral" proganda cheme, at the moment, is pointless. Automotivve vehicles are a molecule in the drop in the ocean whenit comes to Carbon Emissions.

The environmentalists have been wrong before. Remember the 2 stroke ban in the US back in 1977, which was lifted 5 years ago after US givernment scientist bothered to test the 2 stoke engine and found it to be enviornmentally cleaner than the 4 stroke or Diesel?? Knee jerk blind legislation due to envionmentist presure, with out serious unbiased scientific research is never a good idea.

I am not an environmentalist. I am a chemist. I have no financial, political or emotional interest in the matter whatsoever.

Adding carbon dioxide (no matter how minute the amount) to a mixture of gases that is exposed to infrared radiation can only increase the temperature of that mixture of gases. This is plain scientific fact, no theory whatsoever. There is no question in the matter, debating the point is even absurd, I'm surprised that I've had the patience to explain it slowly this many times.

Bonk you are for the most part correct here. I think what alot of us Anti-Global warming , if that's even the name are on about, is that Man is the cause. Look at all the herd animals we had in the past that outnumbered us to this day. Granted, we have let alot of pollutents into the atmosphere, and I am all for a safer Environment, But to claim that Man is the  root cause, is very debatable.

Stephen

[Panzergranate]

Living out in the English countryside, a few miles from a small town, I hate going into cities, London especially.

You can taste the air in London about a day after leaving there. It has to be the most ugly captial city in Europe. (Prague is the best, but I might have a beer bias there!!)

The polution is caused by N2O and CO in the ground level air plus all the residue of the additives put into fuel now that Tetra Ethyl Lead isn't allowed in it anymore. They reckoned that city kids were thick because of the leaded petrol, now they've realised that they're simply thick because of the culture that they're raised in!!

So to cut back on the N20 from four strok car engines they fit Catalytic Converters, which sap just under 20% of the car's engine power, trap some of the N20 and convert the CO into CO2, thus trebbling the vehicles CO2 emissions!!

If they were serious about CO2 from vehicles then they'd ban Catalytic Converters!!

A friend had the Catalytic  Converter removed from his BMW GS 1100 motorcycle, as bikes don't have to have them here in the UK, and the before and after Dyno test showed a 27 BHP increase in engine power output. His fuel economy gained jut over 10 UK MPG as well.

The medieval Globall Warming period wasn't man made and it was 3 Degrees hogher than this one is predicted to peak out at. I mean, there are historical records of Edinbrugh's Vine Yards. It has to be pretty consistantly hot to grow grapes in Scotland!!

If the last one wasn;t man made then why should this one be, eh??

Global Warming will come whatever we do or if we still all lived in mud huts. Nature is in the driving seat and playing King Canute won't stop it. It's like trying to stop a Hurricane by everyone whistling the same tune.

The "Carbon Neutral" and "Carbon Taxes" thing is more about social engineering than the climate. The US lifted theirs 5 years ago after discovering that they're, er,
cleaner smog wise.

Europe banned the import or sale of new two stroke motorcycles over 98cc two years ago, on the back of "Global Warming" bullsh*t. Youngsters now have to spend their 125cc learner bike days on gutless 125cc four strokes that struggle to hit 60 MPH instead of the 100 MPH two strokes that they could have instead. My son is lucky that I managed to find him a decent 125cc two stroke to trundle to college on.

The fact that two strokes make up a fraction of the percentage of road traffic, and that Diesels and cars polute far more wasn't considered. It was a political "knee jerk" move so as t be "seen to be taking action" type of thing.

How many more "knee jerk"  political reactions are in the pipeline?? Air travel tax is in the minds of the legislators over here, to limit the numbers of people (those not wealthy enough) to ly on airlines.

Whatever method of taking money out of your pockets and making it damned expensive or difficult for you to travel even to work independantly, you'll be told the same old excuse mantra of, "But its to save the planet from Global Warming!!"

Next they'll be trying to stop classic vehicles from using ppublic roads "because they emit a lot of CO2".

The Eco-Nazis are going to milk this for whatever they can gain from it. It's up to the world's governments not to have the wool pulled over their eyes when deciding, realistically, what actually polutes in significant numbers, and what is simple an Eco-Nazi vendetta target.

[Lepton]

Panzer, I am sorry but I really cannot take your hysterical argumentation seriously.  The Earth was a great deal warmer at any number of points within the history of the Planet.  To argue that it was once hotter when Man was around but had no industry therefore Man cannot be cause of global warming is silly to say the least.

[Panzergranate]

I'm just pointing out that history repeats itself, and so does nature.

It is that some even deny that the Medieval Warming event took place, because it detracts from the drama, that is worrying.

This kind off pisses of the historians a lot.

Meanwhile, while everyone is pre-occupied with the atomosphere, others are taking the oportuinty to continue to poison the rivers and soil, China in particular. So they poison their own rivers, so what. That don't affect me does it??!!

Er, these feed into the Oceans and currents can carry mercury, dioxins, PCBs et all thousands of miles. Don't forget the migrating fish shoals, which means that the food chain might just land a piece of Chinese industrial polution eventually on your plate, or mine.

And the media and governments are just concerned with their CO2 emissions??

So when we survive and adapt to climate change, will the world regret not having acted sooner on other more serious polution concerns earlier??

[Fedman NCC-3758]

To argue that it was once hotter when Man was around but had no industry therefore Man cannot be cause of global warming is silly to say the least.

Then perhaps you'd care to explain what caused the end of the last ice age?   Cause it sure could not have been anthropogenic levels of Co2.

[Nemesis]

Then perhaps you'd care to explain what caused the end of the last ice age?   Cause it sure could not have been anthropogenic levels of Co2.

Two similar events can in fact have different causes. 

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Ah, Cro-Magnon Man then, modern industry today.    j/k

[Nemesis]

Ah, Cro-Magnon Man then, modern industry today.    j/k

Since you want to pick related but similar points how about this.

1/  Modern man burning fossil fuels.

2/ Earthquake releases oil field to surface and ignition occurs.

Both result in the release of CO₂ from fossil fuel sources. 

For a non fossil fuel one how about a colder Earth means less plant  and animal life.  If for example the amount of life is cut in half then the half that was eliminated will decay and release its carbon back to the atmosphere.  It could take centuries or even millenia due to the cold conditions but it would increase the CO₂ levels.

Personally I am unsure of global warming and if it does exist the human role. 

[Fedman NCC-3758]

Anthropogenic levels of Co2 are not the cause of the 0.6 degree increase in temp over the past 100+ years.

The hyperbole surrounding global climate change is absurd.

The Earth's climate has never been stagnant.

We couldn't control the Earth's climate if we wanted to.

And over the past decade the temp has been stable.

Go figure.

[odb]

co2 my ass, as hemah always says if u build it were gonna fly it. till the gas runs dry were gonna kill this planet for sure!

[Panzergranate]

The previous Ice Ages came and went in accordance to increases and decreases in the Sun's energy output.

The Ice Ages were causes when the Sun backed off it's overall nuclear activity and radiance, for reasons unknown. The same thing occured, to a lesser extent, during the Mini-Ice Age, which started in the 1400's and lasted until the early 1800's.

The Solar scientists believe that the Sun runs in 3 cycles, with the well known 11 year cycle, the 800 - 900 year cycle and a longer term cycle lasting many thousands of years, all of which run concurently. The last Ice Age ended 8,000 years ago and there have been several spaced at about the same intervals.

Thirty years ago the Climatologists were warning us that another Ice Age was decending upon us, based on their interpretation of global temperature records to that date. As we're not all up to our balls in ice and snow, I figure they may have made a mistake somewhere.

However, it does prove that they are prone to falability and miscalculations.