Topic: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name  (Read 12884 times)

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Offline Raven Night

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2007, 09:57:31 pm »
Well, aside from a few light tweaks, the top of the head is pretty much done. Still need to do the redo on the chin, reshape the wings a bit, and maybe integrate (attach) the nacelles to the wings. after that and a bit mroe belly work, and she should be ready for textures.
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Offline Norsehound

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2007, 01:28:35 am »
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I dont know if I explained this, but the glowing green plate you see on the nose of all of my romulans had a triple purpose...it emenates a field during warp flight, acting as the main deflector, and also can fire plasma torps or plasma bolts. it can also act as a reverse engine, as its design is similar to the rear impulse engines (no, the impulse engines in the rear are vents only, they are optimized for thrust.).

I'm going to sound difficult, but I'd like to see the designs for the "do everything" plate. Personally, I think it should stick as a navigational deflector while you have the ports above it configured for Plasma Torpedo firing (Center being the torpedo launcher, and the left and right nozzles firing bolts). Leave reverse power for thrusters or inverting the warp field to cause a reverse-motion effect. After all, with the exception of the Scimitar, I can't think of any Trek ship which has engines directed forward for reverse thrust.

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Now, to the warp engines, and why this design is similar to the old BOP. First, as it has been debated time and time again, the issue of Warp and the TOS BOP.

One explanation of the BOP's Warp engines is that they are impulse Powered. Specifically, the same engines that drive a constitution's Impulse engines are also what makes the warp drives go on the Romulan BoP. This means that warp power works, but it is horribly underpowered.

I've also seen BoP era warp drives termed as "Stutter Warp" by Starfleet Battles.

The Starfleet museum mentions that perhaps the romulans detested the idea of annihilation of dual forces (antimatter and matter engines), which explained their transition to quantum singularities later. If they bypassed M/AM reactors altogether, they'd still be using fusion/fission reactors to power thier vessels in TOS (which is what powered the impulse engines of the TOS connie, IIRC)

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So why revisit the design, a failed design in Romulan eyes? Well, Romulans were proud to serve on such a difficult ship to control, and truth be told only the best commanders were assigned to such vessels.

I never saw the BoP as a "failed" design. Considering it's weaponry was more powerful than the Klingon contemporaries of the time (and even the constiution), it at least had some sucesses. Old, yes, but still had a lot of potential.

Offline Raven Night

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2007, 06:23:24 am »
I'm going to sound difficult, but I'd like to see the designs for the "do everything" plate. Personally, I think it should stick as a navigational deflector while you have the ports above it configured for Plasma Torpedo firing (Center being the torpedo launcher, and the left and right nozzles firing bolts). Leave reverse power for thrusters or inverting the warp field to cause a reverse-motion effect. After all, with the exception of the Scimitar, I can't think of any Trek ship which has engines directed forward for reverse thrust.

Well, this is based in some fandom and some observation. First, most note most other races do not use visible navigational deflectors, with the exception of Cardassians and Romulans, at least according to fans. It has been said that the glowing spiral disruptor on the nose of Cardassian ships, as well as the Romulan nose green port are probably deflectors of some sort, and have also been seen firing bolts or beams of energy. We have also seen the deflectors on Fed ships used as a makeshift weapon a few times. The Romulan port in front has been seen firing both bolts and beams of energy.

Now, we all know the nature of plasma torpedoes...torpedoes with no case, simply a confinement module in the center that loses containment over time, lowering the power of the torpedo over distance. Note, Romulan torpedoes are incredibly powerful at close range, but not so much at long ranges, and are much slower than Photon torpedoes. I contend that all Romulan weapons use warp plasma for thier weaponry. Knowing the nature of plasma, one can conjecture it could also be used as a repulsive field.

As far as the reverse engines, technically all engines have the ability to reverse (though I have to admit im not sure how you can reverse rear-only engines), so I dont feel that a reverse engine use for this port, though limited in power, would be a stretch. I just decided for the Romulans to indicate the strengths and weaknesses of thier designs. This is just my conjecture of course.

Romulan ships remain underpowered at warp, with the exception of this design. They do, however have a huge surplus of energy. This allows extremely powerful weapons and sheilds, and quick firing rates. Torpedoes are slower and less accurate, and are weak at long range, but extremely powerful at close range. Romulan ships are basically ultimate alpha strike vessels, but have less staying power over longer engagements. Armor varies, but it much lower than Klingons.

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One explanation of the BOP's Warp engines is that they are impulse Powered. Specifically, the same engines that drive a constitution's Impulse engines are also what makes the warp drives go on the Romulan BoP. This means that warp power works, but it is horribly underpowered.

I've also seen BoP era warp drives termed as "Stutter Warp" by Starfleet Battles.

The Starfleet museum mentions that perhaps the romulans detested the idea of annihilation of dual forces (antimatter and matter engines), which explained their transition to quantum singularities later. If they bypassed M/AM reactors altogether, they'd still be using fusion/fission reactors to power thier vessels in TOS (which is what powered the impulse engines of the TOS connie, IIRC)

I dont really like the detested annihilation concept. I would rather go with a more convential explanation, something like a stolen design, supported by the original series, and add details that support show comments and are more standard, like a reduced efficiency leading to a very inefficient plasma creation process.

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I never saw the BoP as a "failed" design. Considering it's weaponry was more powerful than the Klingon contemporaries of the time (and even the constiution), it at least had some sucesses. Old, yes, but still had a lot of potential.

The weaponry power is not in dispute. As I have mentioned, Romulan weapons remain the most powerful known among the major players in the galaxy. The basis of the designs "failure" was more its very short range and testy engine design. The original BOP was redesigned in my conjecture (note: I contend the BOP in STSfS was, in fact, an original Romulan design aquired by the Duras family during thier collaboration with them, and redesigned for Klingon use) and was fitted with the new Quantum Singularity drive, which was disasterous (the ships imploded on themselves). The design was shelved, but was used successfully by the Klingons using thier M/AM core. Later, the design was revisited (my Vdan) and this ship was the designers tribute to the original BOP designer.

Now, on to the latest. I have tweaked the design a bit more, still needs a few more details. I added the wingtip details I wanted, finally got them right I think (I wanted them to be on the subtle side) and worked on the connections for the warp nacelles to the wings. Let me know what you think sofar.
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Offline Raven Night

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2007, 08:47:49 am »
Ah, sorry about that. Here you go.

Note, the bottom details are not done yet, I have to take a closer look at the bottom of the TOS BOP before I settle on all the ventral details.
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Offline Vipre

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2007, 09:05:44 am »
This just keeps getting better, the feathered wingtips are a perfect touch.
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Offline Shadowfleet

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2007, 05:16:17 pm »
Perfect Changes - I bet she really rock once you lay on some original Raven textures. Thanks for keeping us updated.

Offline markyd

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2007, 10:57:23 am »
Very nice man....   gives me an idea 2  ;) ty

Offline Raven Night

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2007, 03:35:29 pm »
Well, your typhon gave me ideas as well, specifically for pure troop transports. So I guess we helped each other hehe.

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Offline Starforce2

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2007, 10:54:53 am »
the nose sorta reminds me of flight of the navigator.

Offline Raven Night

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2007, 04:28:29 pm »
Ok, here is an idea....just an idea at this point, but I like it, wanted to see what you guys thought of it.

Ok, first, note the impulse engines. I wanted something similar to the original model, the studio model has 3 square vents on each side of the tail, so this was my take. There were also what looked like squarish vents on the top rear of the ship, so I added them as shown. Also note that I added two things the original did not have...a rear plasma cannon battery and plasma caster. This basically mirrors the nose setup.

Now, to the shuttlebay....note that I gave it a crows nest...meaning that half of the bay is exposed to space. This creates an open area where a ship can land behind a force field. There is another wall in back of course, with two hatches to enter the interior bay. Let me know what you think of this idea...I might even add a few details, like perhaps work consoles.
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Offline Shadowfleet

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2007, 01:07:32 pm »
I like the new additions. Nice details and logical evolutions of the design into a new era. I'd leave the consoles out of the poly count and use textures to show interior detail of the crow's nest.

Bottom line - me likey  ::)

Can't wait to add her or your new feddie designs to my copy of SFC.

I'd like to retract my suggestion of R' Hapere (rapere is Latin for bird of prey) This is turning into such an original design, and you are most famous for your Romulan work, so... I think a fitting name would be T' Nevar. Romulan for you! Thanks for sharing Raven!

Offline Raven Night

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2007, 07:02:35 pm »
I like the name suggestion. The only problem is that the lead character in the story "Infinity" is named Raven Noonien Singh, and I wouldnt want people to think that the ship was named after a Starfleet Marine Corps General. I might use some kind of "bird of prey" as the name, however...after all, thats what it is...

...and its mud in the eye of everyone that still clings to the idea (now proven unfortunately) the Klingon BOP was actually a klingon design. This ship and my story says otherwise.

At any rate, I had to make a change and I'm not sure about it. I could keep it, return it as it was, or modify it further to make it a bit fluid. The reason I made the change is I have a self-imposed poly limit of 4500 polys. This model, once everything was attached and formed, hit upward of 4900 polys. So the only place I could trim polys that would count seemed to be the round warp plasma vents. The only other option was to remove the old style distruptor pods front and rear, but that wasnt desirable....they connect the ship to the old design. Here are the pics of the changes, rendered and mesh....let me know what you think.
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Offline Vipre

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Re: New Romulan...nod to TOS BOP, needs a name
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2007, 01:08:08 pm »
Looks fine, reminds me of the Ent-D's nacelles a bit.
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