Topic: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3  (Read 6660 times)

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Offline James Smith

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ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« on: August 24, 2007, 05:12:11 pm »
Clearance code: SMITH-2-2-9-B

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Clearance verified. File 10-0-1496B3 is now open for viewing.

Tigermoth class starship (Constitution refit)
Ship hull type - cruiser
Unit run -

Starfleet builds:
USS Tigermoth NCC-61843-A
USS Mosquito NCC-77777
USS Tempest NCC-96454
plus one under construction.

OSF builds:
USS Valiant NCC-4217
plus one under construction.

Commissioned -
USS Valiant –  October 2375
USS Tigermoth-A – January 2377
USS Mosquito - April 2377
USS Tempest – 2395

Dimensions –
Length – 306m
Beam – 143m
Height – 75m
Decks – 23

Mass – 703,000 metric tons

Crew – 200 to 220 depending on equipment installed.

Armament –

Phasers – 9 Type 12A arrays.
Quantum Torpedoes – 1 rapid fire turret.
Photon Torpedoes – 2 forward tubes, 1 aft tube.

Defensive systems –

Enhanced deflector shield system, total capacity 3,600,000 TJ.
Duranium double hull with carbon-neutronium armour plating.
High-capacity structural integrity field.

Warp speeds –

Warp cruise – Warp 8
Maximum warp cruise – Warp 9.5
Maximum warp rated – Warp 9.8 for 12 hours

Transwarp cruise – Twarp 5
Maximum transwarp cruise – Twarp 7
Maximum transwarp rated – to be determined.

**********

(Excerpts from “The History of the Constitution Class”, by Admiral RC Howard)

“Perhaps the most famous ship class Starfleet ever fielded, the Constitution captured the imagination of the public like no other ships class before. Part of this may have been down to the sheer beauty of these ships – in their initial configuration, with the white thermacoat these starships were so staggeringly different to everything that had come before them.”

“By the time USS Enterprise NCC-1701 returned to Earth for her major refit, there were ten Constitution class vessels in active service with the Starfleet exploratory arm. There were a further six vessels operated by the so-called “Shadow Fleet”, a secret Starfleet division who were charged with the task of countering the secret fleets the Klingon and Romulan governments were operating at the time. They had proven so successful in this role that the Klingons had virtually abandoned their shadow operations by this time, however the Romulans remained an ever-present threat. Following the Enterprise refit, virtually all Constitution class ships and their various subtypes were refitted to similar specifications. This included the Shadow Fleet ships.”


**********

Following the Borg incursions into Federation space in the mid-2360s, Starfleet began asking for proposals for new ship classes to counter the Borg threat. One such proposal was already on file with the Utopia Planitia Yards, which was to become the Sovereign Class. The Antares Yards gained approval for their Defiant Class, a ship which was to prove very useful once the design had undergone some reworking by officers under Benjamin Sisko of Deep Space Nine.

The Omega Sector Fleetyards proposed a heavy refit of an existing design – that of the Constitution Class. Starfleet was somewhat skeptical, yet donated a single ship from mothballs to the OSF to see if the idea had any merit. What emerged after several years of building, testing and reworking was a truly remarkable transformation – the USS Valiant NCC-4217. While the hull configuration was broadly the same as the original ship, there were many detail differences. The connecting ‘neck’ between primary and engineering hulls was much thicker. The primary hull was heavily reshaped. The engineering hull was reshaped as well, and the nacelle struts were thicker. The nacelles themselves were of a new type designed by Tezuka Republic Industries. Underneath the skin, the ship contained a mixture of proven technology as well as some innovation. The phaser arrays were of a brand new type, a compact iteration of the Type XII array first seen in the USS Sovereign. The torpedo tubes were a mix – the photon tubes being proven Type 9 MagRails, while the quantum torpedo launcher was a smaller and lower capacity version of the Sovereign one. The shield grid marked a return to the classic deflector-shield arrangement, long favoured by the OSF for the adaptability that such an arrangement affords, with a virtually all-new generator design.

The computer systems follow current Starfleet practice, being a variation on the now-standard LCARS-equipped isolinear multitronic setup. The M23 from Daystrom Technologies was a well-proven design, and was just about compact enough to slot in place where the old duotronic core had been. Sensors are also proven designs, based around designs that can trace their ancestry back to the Galaxy Class but with improvements along the lines of those brought in with the Sovereign Class. The warp core was based around that of the Intrepid Class, but with twin M/AM streams and a larger dilithium array to provide the increased power required for the offensive and defensive systems. This required the use of a much higher capacity power grid along with increased coolant capacity.

Starfleet was hugely impressed by the concept, and with the Dominion War still raging was giving some serious thought to building a ship based to the same specifications. The OSF delivered a comprehensive set of designs and notes regarding the build, and Starfleet set about refitting another two vessels. One of the hulls they used had been one of the Shadow Fleet ships, USS Triclore SNCC-1719, which had been decommissioned due to damage received in an incident in 2301. The other was the former USS Indefatigable, decommissioned and placed in mothballs at Proxima Maintenance Yards in 2322. By this time Tezuka Republic had refined the nacelle design further and these newer units were used. Other changes made by Starfleet were in the power grid and cooling systems – these were of slightly lower capacity than the OSF plans called for. Work did not proceed at all smoothly, the Dominion War ending before the ships could enter service. Following several more months of work, the vessels were still not ready and many in Starfleet thought that work should be suspended. Fortunately for the supporters of the refit plans, events elsewhere intervened.

The USS Tigermoth NCC-61843 was destroyed in a classified incident, and her chief engineer became available temporarily. Commander James Smith was able to solve many of the issues that had cropped up, getting one ov the ships service ready in a little over a month. Smith was assigned to the ship as chief engineer, with the Tigermoth command crew and various other personnel joining him. In recognition of this fact, the ship was commissioned USS Tigermoth NCC-61843-A. Her shakedown would come under somewhat less than ideal circumstances, countering an ISC invasion of Federation space. Following the defeat of the ISC fleets, she proceeded on a proper shakedown cruise. The other ship had been completed using notes that Commander Smith had made during his work, and from initial experiences of the Tigermoth-A during the ISC conflict. She was comissioned as USS Mosquito NCC-77777. Her name and registry both provided nicknames for the vessel - while the Tigermoth-A had simply been nicknamed the 'Moth', as with both her plane and starship ancestors, the Mosquito picked up several informal designations as can be seen from certain dock and mission reports. These ranged from 'Mossie' and 'Woody', in honour of the aircraft she'd been named after, to 'Beans'. From Admiral Howard's "History Of The Consitution Class":

**********

"A fascinating insight into the mentality of certain Starfleet personnel can be gleaned from one of the nicknames that USS Mosquito picked up. Transcripts of conversations between dock workers reveal that Mosquito somehow picked up the nickname of 'Beans'. Apparently a reference to her Naval Construction Contract number, it is unclear to this author what the meaning is. I can confirm, however, that dock workers find this name utterly hilarious."

**********

The Tigermoth-A had proven to be a very effective combat ship during the ISC conflict that took place in the first four months of 2377, and remained on permanent attachment to TacFleet. The Mosquito remained in general Starfleet service, and accordingly had her lab spaces fitted out with equipment for exploration missions. Most of the lab spaces on the Tigermoth-A were taken up by storage areas for torpedo casings and spare parts, although she did retain some labs in order to allow her to perform other Starfleet missions.

2378 saw the arrival of Imperial Universe forces in Federation space, and a refit of many TacFleet ships including the Tigermoth-A. She gained her carbon-neutronium armour at this stage, increasing her resistance to battle damage. It was during Imperial engagements that the weaknesses in the power grid and cooling systems became critical. After the Imperial forces were driven out of our universe, she put back into dock for a refit of all affected systems. The Mosquito also put back into dock for similar modifications.

The Tigermoth-A would get to test the post-Imperial War modifications soon enough, as the inhabitants of the Gatrellus nebula attacked the Federation with the help of the Romulans. During a battle, once of her nacelles was heavily damaged. On attempting warp flight, she was pulled into a warp imbalance that threw her forward in time. At the time, Starfleet had assumed her destruction. In the years following her disappearance, a further refit of the Valiant was performed by the OSF and the plans sent to Starfleet for use on the Mosquito. A new M24A computer core was installed, along with a new M/AM reactor and transwarp drive. Control systems were also upgraded to take into account the new engines and computer. The modifications brought the ships back up to date. When the Tigermoth-A made it back in contact with Starfleet at the Briar Patch, she was refitted in the same manner. She served out the remainder of the war on the front lines with TacFleet, her new systems performing well.

With the reappearance of the Andromedans Starfleet has finished refitting of another vessel, commissioned as the USS Tempest NCC-96454. She featured the latest refinements to the design, with a new nacelle modification. Another vessel, the former USS Endeavour NCC-1895, is currently being refitted at the Antares Yards. The OSF are apparently constructing a new build to the Valiant specifications, investigating the possibility of a production run of the ships.


Current status of Tigermoth class ships:

USS Tigermoth NCC-61843-A – in service with TacFleet, Federation defense force against Andromedan incursions. Captain James R Smith commanding.
USS Tempest NCC-96454 – in service with TacFleet, Federation defense force against Andromedan incursions. General attachment to Antares Shipyards. Admiral David Harriman commanding.
USS Mosquito NCC-77777 - in general service with Starfleet. Currently assigned to patrol group 14.
USS Valiant NCC-4217 – unknown. No data available.



************
************

Right. That would be my definitive spec for the Tigermoth now. To borrow from Doug Adams for a second - if it's wrong here, it's wrong for good. As for the history of the ship - the dates are now set in stone as far as my universe goes.

As for other ships of the class - obviously, I have no monopoly over refitted Connies entering service once more with Starfleeet in post-TNG timelines. Andy - if you want, I can muck about with this further and get the USS Mosquito shoe-horned in. I have half a mind to add the Mossie in, and to go back to an earlier chapter of ROTA and do a spot of editing. I'd therefore not have Tempest be the second Starfleet build, and have Mossie built and enter service a short while after Tigermoth (probably enter service sometime during the events of ROTISC, makes it 2377-2378 now). Let me know what you think.




****edit****

Right, Mossie is in there. Going to read that back to myself later and decide if I'm happy with it as it stands.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 09:21:20 am by James Smith »
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Offline Scottish Andy

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2007, 01:40:29 pm »
A nice little workup, obviously some fair bit of thought went into this. I'm not agreeing with your Shadow Fleets, but to each their own. :)

Quote
Andy - if you want, I can muck about with this further and get the USS Mosquito shoe-horned in. I have half a mind to add the Mossie in, and to go back to an earlier chapter of ROTA and do a spot of editing. I'd therefore not have Tempest be the second Starfleet build, and have Mossie built and enter service a short while after Tigermoth (probably enter service sometime during the events of ROTISC, makes it 2377-2378 now). Let me know what you think.

I'm very flattered that you'd edit your story and this workup to fit my ship in there. I'm not sure we're entirely compatible though, and I don't want to put you to any effort that is not going to jive anyway. If you want to include the Mossie in, though, I'd love it!

Here's her details (insofar as I've got any):

At any rate, the build order I have right now is as follows:
USS Valiant - OSF - 2375ish
USS Tigermoth-A - Starfleet - 2377/2378, further refits since
USS Mosquito - Starfleet - 2377, to same specs as Tigermoth-A
USS Tempest - Starfleet - 2394, to same specs as Tigermoth-A
USS Typhoon - Starfleet - 2395, to same specs as 'Moth and Tempest.”

USS Mosquito NCC-77777, Constitution (Omega Refit) class. (Ex-USS Indefatigable NCC-1760.)
Commissioned: 23rd April 2377, stardate 54308.5. (USS Indefatigable decommissioned & placed in mothball storage at Proxima Maintenance yards on 17th May 2322, stardate 14891.7)
Complement: 212 crew.



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Offline James Smith

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2007, 04:15:05 pm »
A nice little workup, obviously some fair bit of thought went into this. I'm not agreeing with your Shadow Fleets, but to each their own. :)

Wait until you see how it actually shakes out in Tigermoth canon. All shalll be revealed as to why that seperate fleet existed by the end of "Vengeance".

I'm very flattered that you'd edit your story and this workup to fit my ship in there. I'm not sure we're entirely compatible though, and I don't want to put you to any effort that is not going to jive anyway. If you want to include the Mossie in, though, I'd love it!

We-e-ell, compatible depends entirely on whether or not I break out the RetCon Cannon Of Mighty Justice. I have half a mind to go back and do a minor re-work of ROTISC at some point waaaaaaay off in the future, now that my writing has improved somewhat. And that can include altering the date to bring it forward to early 2377 as opposed to early 2378. Not as if bringing it forward a year radically corrupts this universe....

And when you think about it - Starfleet has this refit desgn on file, builds a bloody good ship with it.....then doesn't build another one until nigh-on 20 years later. Aliright, there has been a lot of war in all that time, but still - you'd think they'd have built at least one more inbetween Tigermoth and Tempest.

USS Mosquito NCC-77777, Constitution (Omega Refit) class. (Ex-USS Indefatigable NCC-1760.)
Commissioned: 23rd April 2377, stardate 54308.5. (USS Indefatigable decommissioned & placed in mothball storage at Proxima Maintenance yards on 17th May 2322, stardate 14891.7)
Complement: 212 crew.

Right. A quick pop to the drawing board to see if I can actually make my fic universe play nicely with yours for a little while.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2007, 09:12:47 am »
USS Thunderbolt would be a good one, too.

*shifts his eyes about suspiciously*
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
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Offline James Smith

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2007, 09:19:10 am »
USS Thunderbolt would be a good one, too.

*shifts his eyes about suspiciously*

Well, was starting to consider names for the new OSF build. Can always make that one Thunderbolt.

Edited OP to get the Mossie in. As the edit note says, I'll read it back to myself later and see if I want to change it any further. Then I'll go back and tweak that ROTA chapter a bit to tie-in.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2007, 09:25:37 am »
Well, was starting to consider names for the new OSF build. Can always make that one Thunderbolt.

I'm a big P-47 fan.  Prefer them to P-51's on most flight sims.  Rugged and well-armed, but fast and agile.  Not so 'twitchy' as the Mustang or a Spitfire (I've never played a flight sim where I liked the Spitfire...), and lots of horsepower to lug around rockets and bombs and other expressions of love for whichever brand of Axis I'm fighting.

Beyond my affection for the plane, it's also a 'T' name of a WWII-era aircraft noted for it's speed, power, and versatility, just like the Typhoons and Tempests (which, when I fly RAF, I far prefer to the more glamorous Spitfire).
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline James Smith

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2007, 09:43:38 am »
Beyond my affection for the plane, it's also a 'T' name of a WWII-era aircraft noted for it's speed, power, and versatility, just like the Typhoons and Tempests (which, when I fly RAF, I far prefer to the more glamorous Spitfire).

I love the Tempest in flight sims, simply for the way it'll turn once you get some serious speed up. That, and the sound of a Napier 24 cylinder motor on full chat!
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2007, 09:57:33 am »
Don't forget the thudding of the four 20mm cannon or the 'swoosh' of the 16 rockets you can rack up on the wings.

Though the mention of the Tempest's engine noise also reminds me of the giant, snarling radial the T-bolt has...and then there's the buzzsaw rip of the eigjht .50 calibers...love watching Jerry planes fly apart like a model airplane getting blasted by a 12 gauge!:2gun: ;D
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Panzergranate

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2007, 01:44:28 pm »
I presume that you're flying the Napier Sabre powered Tempest and not the Radial engined earlier version. (Mk.II.)

The Tempest was also the first aircraft to carry Naphalm into battle..... It was intended for use against German underground Jet Fighter hangars and parked aircraft on airfields.

Tempests also could carry a heavier payload than the P47 or any other allied fighter. Normally they carried 10 x 68 Pound "Tulip" Hollow Charge anti-ship/anti-armour missiles.

The Tempest also held the airspeed record for a piston engined fighter in a dive at 650 MPH due to its rugged  construction. Other fighters used to break up long before this speed due to sonic shockwaves.

The Tempest was the second fastesd fighter of WW2 at 450 MPH with the P51 number one at 465 MPH. The 5 bladed propped Spitfire Mk.24 made into the 420's.

I quite like the Tempest as well.

I always fly the Spad 13 in WW1 sims as it just doesn't fall apart when thrown around the sky. The Neuport 17 is the worst WW1 fighter for falling apart. The lower wings snap off if the aircraft exceeds 108 MPH.



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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2007, 10:24:52 pm »
The Tempest was the second fastesd fighter of WW2 at 450 MPH with the P51 number one at 465 MPH.

The P-47M could make 470. ;D

The XP-47H hit 505, but those never went into production.  Even the N models saw only limited service, as their engines were finely tuned and a tad finicky.  The P-51H hit 487, slower than the H, but faster than the M.  Alas, they never saw combat.  Just once I'd like to be able to fly some of the 'supermods' like those in a flight sim...never got my hands on IL2 Aces or such though...perhaps they have them.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Panzergranate

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2007, 12:08:59 am »
Ah, but we'ren't those twin engined/twin prop jobs??

The Germans stuck two engines, one behind the other on a common prop shaft, on an Fw.190. and created the TA.152. as their answer to the Tempest problem. Complex production and servicing problems only saw it in service in limited numbers.

It is common opinion, in one hell of a lot of sources,  that the Brewster Buffalo (F2) was the worst ever fighter to se active service. I like some of the deregatory nicknames, the pilots who had to fly them, gave them.  "The Barrel", "Flying Brick", "Peanut Express", "Flying Lard Bucket", "Cigar Butt", etc.

I read, in a book, an occount by the test pilot who had to evaluate possible use of the Buffalo to replace Goster Gladiator and Hawker Fury biplane fighters in North Africa in 1940, against Italian CR.42. biplanes and Macchi monoplane fighters.

In a mock dogfight with a twin engined Bristol Blenhiem light bomber, the bomber manegd to easily end up on the taill of the Buffalo and couldn't be shaken off. In test sorties the Buffalo was badly shot up by Macchi fighters and after a landing accident, a few weeks later, the dumb idea was dropped.

The Germans also aquired 36 Buffaloes when they invaded Belgium still in their shipping crates.

They assembled them with a view to use them but test flights soon changed their minds and they used them as trainers or for ariel photographic recconasisance. It also gave the Germans a false impression that US fighter aircraft design was flawed.

I always find it ironic that the world's least maneuverable and worst fighter was pitted against one of the world's most maneuverable and best fighter, the A6M Zero.

What were they thinking??!!

How come they never ever give the option of flying the F2 Buffalo in Pacific War air combat games?? Or is the BUffalo best forgotten about?? Hundred of pilots flew to their deaths in these fat and clumsey death traps so they should be remembered really.

I have seen and read so many negative anecdotes about the Buffalo that it would be nice to actually fly a simulated one in a dogfight game, just to see what its like.

Anyway, who names an aircraft after a bulky, heavy, clumsey, 3 ton, non-flying herbivore?? It was strangly appropriate, however.

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2007, 05:15:40 am »
Anyway, who names an aircraft after a bulky, heavy, clumsey, 3 ton, non-flying herbivore?? It was strangly appropriate, however.

The same kind of people that think that "buffalo wings" actually come from the animal...

OK, so enough about plane references and flight sims. I've had my time in the sky, from the old Nofreindo versions up to the JanesTM flight sim of not so long ago. Personally, I'm more of a submarine simulator guy, again going with the JanesTM version (I've not played it in a long while). The accuracy there is actually quite impressive, however I can neither confirm nor deny how accurate things are.

In regards to the specs of the 'Moth (Thats why we're here, right?): Damned impressive.

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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2007, 07:32:08 am »
Ah, but we'ren't those twin engined/twin prop jobs??


Nope.  High-speed versions of the P-47 and P-51 built toward the end of the war.

From Wikipedia's P-47 Article:

Quote
Republic made several attempts to further improve the P-47D:

Two XP-47Hs were built. They were major reworkings of existing razorback P-47Ds to accommodate a Chrysler XI-2220-11 water-cooled inline 16-cylinder inverted vee engine. However, such large inline engines did not prove to be especially effective.

The XP-47J began as a November 1942 request to Republic for a high-performance version of the Thunderbolt using a lighter airframe and an uprated engine with water injection and fan cooling. Kartveli designed an aircraft fitted with a tight-cowled Pratt & Whitney R-2800-57(C) with a war emergency rating of 2,800 horsepower (2,090 kW), reduced armament of six 0.50 inch (12.7 mm) machine guns, a new and lighter wing, and many other changes. The first and only XP-47J was first flown in late November 1943. When fitted with a GE CH-5 turbosupercharger, the XP-47J achieved a top speed of 440 knots (505 mph, 813 km/h) in level flight in August 1944, making it one of the fastest piston engine fighters ever built. However, by that time Republic had moved on to a new concept, the XP-72.

The P-47M was a more conservative attempt to come up with a higher-performance version of the Thunderbolt. Four P-47D-27-RE airframes (s/n 42-27385 / 42-27388) were modified into prototype YP-47Ms by fitting the R-2800-57(C) engine and the GE CH-5 turbo-supercharger. The YP-47M had a top speed of 410 knots (473 mph, 761 km/h) and it was put into limited production with 130 (sufficient for one group) built. However, the type suffered serious teething problems in the field due to the highly-tuned engine, and by the time the bugs were worked out, the war in Europe was nearly over. All 130 were delivered to the 56th Fighter Group, and were responsible for all four of that group's jet shoot-downs. Joe Baugher's site lists 12 that were lost in operational crashes in Europe with the 56th Group (two after VE Day), and two (44-21134 on 13 April 1945 and 44-21230 on 16 April 1945) were shot down in combat, both by ground fire.


And from the P-51 Article:

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The P-51H used the new V-1650-9 engine, a version of the Merlin that included Simmons automatic supercharger boost control with water injection, allowing War Emergency Power as high as 2218 hp (1,500 kW). Differences between the P-51D included lengthening the fuselage and increasing the height of the tailfin, which greatly reduced the tendency to yaw. The canopy resembled the P-51D style, over a somewhat raised pilot's position. Service access to the guns and ammunition was also improved. With the new airframe several hundred pounds lighter, the extra power and a more streamlined radiator, the P-51H was among the fastest propeller fighters ever, able to reach 487 mph (784 km/h or Mach 0.74) at 25,000 ft (7,600 m).


Neither of those planes saw the same level of service that the Tempest did, however.  These are those late-war, pinnacles of the propeller-driven art that you always hear about if they were made by the Germans, but not if they were an Allied-made machine. ;)  The H-model Mustangs never saw combat...even in Korea, because very few were built.

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I have seen and read so many negative anecdotes about the Buffalo that it would be nice to actually fly a simulated one in a dogfight game, just to see what its like.


Me too.  Might get my ass shot off, but it would be nice just to see what the guys at Midway were up against when they took their Buffalos up against the IJN.

One thing though:  The Finnish Air Force did very well against the Soviets with their Buffalos.  You can blame early war lack of Soviet training for some of this, but they were scoring kills even in 1943 and 44 when the Red Air Force had become a rather formidable force.  They made some changes to the Brewster, though, removing a lot of the Navy's life-saving equipment (lightening it considerably) and they solved a problem with the engine that made it more reliable and powerful.

Some sources I've read say they preferred them to German-provided BF-109's!
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2007, 12:23:50 pm »
They took out all the armour, guns, lard and fitted a biiger engine actually. Mustsn't forget retractable skis either.

What I can't figure is why the name "Tigermoth", which is a De Haviland "Moth" series biplane trainer, of which a few hundred are still flying today.

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline James Smith

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2007, 02:10:33 pm »
What I can't figure is why the name "Tigermoth", which is a De Haviland "Moth" series biplane trainer, of which a few hundred are still flying today.

;D

The first starship Tigermoth was a Saber class vessel, originally used as a training ship but taken over by TacFleet. Hence being named after the De Havilland Tiger Moth training kite. They didn't rename her when TacFleet got hold of her. And the Tigermoth-A was named in honour of that vessel.
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Offline Governor Ronjar

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2007, 10:10:51 pm »
About the starships, I say the T-M sounds coll, if a bit munchkinny. But who am I to even mention that, given my own love of slightly munchkinny ships.

About the aircraft, I say I'm glad I missed most of this debate.

I love Corsairs.

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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2007, 01:43:41 am »
About the aircraft, I say I'm glad I missed most of this debate.

We were debating something?

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I love Corsairs.

They rock.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Wicked Zombie

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Re: ST: Tigermoth – Ship Data Extract 10-0-1496B3
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2007, 01:14:50 am »
Seems quite in-depth and thought out. I am curious how you're tying the OSF thing into it as that's a story element from one of the old...old...old versions of the Valiant.
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