Topic: Anyone care to talk tactics?

[Panzergranate]

My son goes wide on asteroids and then turns in tight to pass on the far side. The pursuer, intent on closing the range by cutting the corner, suddenlly finds rocks and dust damaging the front shield. Only works on the non-veteran and rookie though.

His other tactic is to let you catch up when close to an asteroid, HET and tractor ram you into the asteroid. He will shut off all weapons to enhance shields and tractor power to do this and if you try to shoot it out with him, you'll loose. The only answer to the "Push of War" is to drop weapons power to increase tractor repulsion or increase propulsion power in order to break free or turn the tabls and drag him into the asteroid.

Being in a smaller ship hasn't stopped him so far springing this on an opponent with success!!

As far as dirty tricks goes, this one caps it so far!!

It's also the correct way to quickly complete the SFC 1 "Kil the Spy" mission. Tractor and ram the Smegger into a convinient asteroid!!

I always target the #3 and #5 shields, when in pursuit, as then my victim knows that to turn and fight will leave me with a clear shot at internal damage.

[Verroc]

If were talking sfc 1.

 As a rom first post of call is to charge weapons, sounds daft but to many people used to get to speed before there phs were charged, its a bad mistake. Then ECM full. Never set ECCM as ECCM does nothing but counter ECM. Then get to FULL speed. Prob the op, if hes had ECCM, kill your ecm (then hes wasting 6 power) and charge sheilds, but never all sheild. Just those you intend to to take damage on.

Basic rules.

NEVER take damage on your rear sheild.

never fire all at once.

never fire plasma heading to your op.

always focus on the same sheild.

force the player to show you that sheild.

Then we get race specific, and go to advance tactics.

[Clark Kent]

I was just curious if anyone would like to share how they approach battle scenes, and how they deal with battles tey are in.  I'm also interested in how long a battle lasts for others.
I personally prefer feds (ok, so I'm not very original), flying a  CLC or one of the BC_ excelsiors.  Sometimes I will up it to a drednaught or a battleship, or maybe an experimental in OP.  Typically, if I'm approaching an opponent of equal or greater BPV, I will keep a low speed while I overload photons, arm a scatter pack, and if necessary a wild weasel, reinforce shields, and if I have a ship with enough power I will try to match my oponent's ECM with ECCM.  As I approach I will often keep a speed of as low as 4so I can load as much power into my shields as possible, I let him blast away, most often not able to get through my forward shields, then around distance 2-3 I will open up with an alpha strike, pass, set torpedoes to normal and increase to maximum speed my ship can go and charge all weapons at once (14 on a BCF). 

...

OK, I haven't read the whole thread yet, and I know I'm coming into this a week late, but would everyone who would let a slow moving Fed BC close to a range of 2-3 please raise their hands, lower their shields, and prepare for boarding by a peacefull team of Klingon emmisaries...

Surprisingly, if it's a decent matchup, point for point, it's rare that anyone breaks through my shields, whereas if they are going a decent speed, they don't have the power to reinforce their shields enough to keep from getting severely damaged.  If we're talking Cruisers of battlecruisers against each other, sometimes what will happen is my forward shield will take a heavy pounding, but still be standing, so after I hit the gas and speed up, i simply keep my forward shield away unless I find myself in a good position to launch another alpha attack without getting nailed hardcore.
This has worked well against DN's, but not the heavy hitter DNs.  those and battleships or big carriers I make sure to keep my distance because reinforced shields or not, I will get raped if they launch an alpha attack on me.  usually with a matchup where I'm seriously outclassed i would much rather run.

[Verroc]

Surprisingly, if it's a decent matchup, point for point, it's rare that anyone breaks through my shields, whereas if they are going a decent speed, they don't have the power to reinforce their shields enough to keep from getting severely damaged.

If were talking sfc 1 i'd be happy to take you up on that. Im sure i could scratch those sheilds

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Heh.  Well we still have a small group of players who matchup everyday on gamespy. (SFCOP).  We could always use another player.

But I rather think Clark is probably thinking of range fighters who use reduction as their primary tactic.  Lets say a Klingon who sabre dances between range 8 (skimming 8.9) to 15.  Or perhaps an ISC who uses his ppd at range fifteen and out. I know some fed pilots who rarely did lose a  shield to these tactics if done right.

But Gorns and Miraks will often elect to anchor, Hydrans and Lyrans prefer the overrun, and even Klingons flying "old school" will come in when they feel the time is right below range 4 to knife fight.  Not to mention the mauler...most of which can down a reinforced front shield (even with engine doubling).

So...I rather doubt those claims.  But heck, maybe Clark is onto something.
 

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Hi KR_Rondo,

it's "Roychipoqua" from Gamespy. I love OP, it never gets old.

[Panzergranate]

Kind of agree with Verroc on the "don't Plasma head on" tip.

When playing as Gorns I usually target the rear side shields as I pass and pull a HET to swing around and lay into the rear shield.

Fortunately, Gorn warships have plenty of other weapons to fire with whilst warming up the Plasma Torpedoes, unlike the Romulan warships.

If playing Gorn versus anyone, it pays to remember the combat advantage of Gorn boarding parties during hit and run or capture attempts. Big lizards do usually win close combat, even against Klingons!!

I've introduced the SFB Romulan "Cloaked Decoy" as an experiment, into a FMSE scripted scenario and let my Unsuspecting 17 year old son  play it.

Needless to say, the "Decoy" cloaked Sparrowhawk that flagged up, moments into the game, saw him break off from escorting his AI freighter and speed across the map to engage. Imagine his surpirse when the first Phaser hits killed it before his Photon Torpedo salvo reached it.

Meanwhile, the real AI Sparrowhawk ambushed and took out a freighter, by the time he'd sped back and recharged his Photons.

Cloaked Decoys are a simple shiplist modification. They take 12 internal damage to kill, are set to move at any speed between 1 and 12, and project a cloaked image/signature of the parent warship that launched it.

Costs peanuts and fools both AI and Human players alike.

Works very well in FMSE scripted scenarioes where they can be pre-deployed so as to attract attention first.

Good at wasting a turn of enemy weapons fire also!!

[Clark Kent]

Heh.  Well we still have a small group of players who matchup everyday on gamespy. (SFCOP).  We could always use another player.

But I rather think Clark is probably thinking of range fighters who use reduction as their primary tactic.  Lets say a Klingon who sabre dances between range 8 (skimming 8.9) to 15.  Or perhaps an ISC who uses his ppd at range fifteen and out. I know some fed pilots who rarely did lose a  shield to these tactics if done right.

But Gorns and Miraks will often elect to anchor, Hydrans and Lyrans prefer the overrun, and even Klingons flying "old school" will come in when they feel the time is right below range 4 to knife fight.  Not to mention the mauler...most of which can down a reinforced front shield (even with engine doubling).

So...I rather doubt those claims.  But heck, maybe Clark is onto something.
 

I think that kinda gets to the meat of why I started this thread.  i rarely am able to fly against a live opponent, I'm usually against the AI, who is almost always willing to come in very very close on his first pass.  On the handful of occasions where I have had someone keep their distance, I drop to regular photons, hit the speed, reinforce rear shield and egress for a better line of attack. 
I'm kinda a stubborn one wit the photons, I don't really like to turn them off, but have on occasion. 
But that's the whole point- when you fly against AI all the time there is a very limited set of tactics you run into, so i started this thread up to see if I could learn more.

[Panzergranate]

The thing with palying against human players is the thought of, "Am I using cunning tactics here or am I being suckered into playing exactly the tactics he wants me to play??"

Sometimes, closing in for the kill is exactly the trap the opponent wants you to fall into.

I sometimes slowly start to drop my speed and hold back on weapons fire just to fool opponents into thinking that my ship is crippled and strapped for power more than what it really is, just to fool them into closing in for a kill.

In the confusion of a large LAN battle, nobody has the time to study their tactical scans of a target, especially those fool enough not to even have it up!!

My son is one who never seems to have the target tactical scan display up, and is often caught out by this.

My son will go even as far as dropping  shields that face away to mimic a shiled failure, just after being hit on that shield. He knows that the player ahs already emptied his best shot into that shield, so isn't likely to repeat the attack until he's recharged.

Seeing an aft shield out on my son's warship doesn't actually mean that it is out, he might be bluffing to make you want to come after him!!

Human players can be diveous bastards sometimes!!

[AcePylut]

Would this be a good place to post some films?   I've got a whole library of PvP kills from vairous D2 severs that demonstrate tactics in a live environment.   The only issue is some of them may not load to to the modded shiplists but most SHOULD work.

Damn, I'd post, quite possibly, my favorit kill ever.  It was a KOTH semifinals match... 230 late.  The opponent took that ISC boat at 229?  (right around there), I took the BCHF at 218.

I think the totally unorthodox and noobie tactic of having a couple little pf's out there messed him what he was thinking.  I kept the pf's out of I torp range for the most part, pulled them back in when they did get hit to repair them. 

He didn't really know weather to take out the pf's or the BCHF.  It got to the point after about 15-20 mins that he focused on the pf's, and totally ignored me as I did an ESG Mizia + double SS on his rear.  That was the match.

No way a BCHF should ever beat that ISC boat.  But hey... sometimes being unpredictable is the best tactic of all.

All I've got right now is a 2v2 film of 230 late match, me and a bud in a pair of Democracy Battlecruisers against a KHK and a different, non KCR, Rommie (can't remember).

The one Rom lover got pissed that we wouldn't run up into range 3 and ESG him, and instead stay out in front, separated about 15 kliks, and just dizzy'ed and phasered his KHK to nothing.  Like I'm going to get in close to an R torp, 4 S's, and 6 F's or whatever it was, when I can stay at range and with the game just as easily, albiet a little longer.

Got another good film of me and my L-BCHP fighting a Fed BCJ.  I timed an EM clickity click perfect, caused all his OL phots to miss, then laid chase, and as soon as I heard the HET from the BCJ, Erratic'ed again, all but 1 OL Phot missed.  Then I got right on his butt, range .2 or so, opened his aft shield, marined all his aft firing stuff... and that was that.  He did have the advantage until I got on his rear without a HET, though.  Once that happened, ol dizzy's are da bomb. 

[Dizzy]

Would this be a good place to post some films?   I've got a whole library of PvP kills from vairous D2 severs that demonstrate tactics in a live environment.   The only issue is some of them may not load to to the modded shiplists but most SHOULD work.

The opponent took that ISC boat at 229?  (right around there), I took the BCHF at 218.

I think the totally unorthodox and noobie tactic of having a couple little pf's out there messed him what he was thinking.  I kept the pf's out of I torp range for the most part, pulled them back in when they did get hit to repair them. 

BCHF CANNOT repair PF's. It is not a tender and only has mech links fwir. Recalling them back to repair and relaunch should have seen you forfeit the match for unsportsman like conduct.

[AcePylut]

This was like 5 years ago, so my memory is sketchy on the subject.  I do remember I was pulling them back in when they got hit.  Probably thought at the time it was for repair.  Might have just been to recharge shields.  Don't remember exactly.  What I do remember was pulling them back in after an I torp when after them, and you can pull them back in and relaunch them.  They were the standard pf's that come with the stock boat, so I wasn't expecting them to do much except be a distraction. 

[Dizzy]

Well, in gsa matches, you'll see casual tenders repair and relaunch PF's because they CAN... What I meant to say is that you shouldnt. We dont do that on the dyna. Gotta have a full Tender. But you're right. That CCZ shoulda edged that BCHF. A T model woulda stacked the deck too high for the CCZ imo.

[AcePylut]

So let me ask... back then around 2002, could a BCHF repair pf's by pulling them back in or not?  I really don't remember exactly.  I do remember that when I'd launch any sort of "fighter" type craft, I'd keep an eye on them and pull them back after they'd shoot their weaps.  So that developed a habit of "keeping a close eye and pulling any fighter-type craft (by fighter type, i mean fighters, pf's, etc., ie the mini ships that you control from the shuttle panel) back in after a turn or so", and that's what I would have been doing.

[Panzergranate]

It always pays to keep an eye on one's AI allies.

I also pays to keep an eye on opposing players renouned for not payiing attention to their own AI allies, for opportuities!!

I've never played SFC 2 EW, so are auxilary PF tenders allowed, as in SFB??

These always proved to be popular, depite they're easy kill status, as they were cheap in campaigns and allowed for more PFs to be maintained and fielded in a battle fleet.

[AcePylut]

I've only ever done online matches in the wonderful Mpig and Lamespy.  Never played in the Dynaverse.

So basically, a team calls out a bpv and anything goes.... unless there's some agreed upon terms like "300 late no x" or "270 late no dreads" etc.  Pretty much nobody flew tenders... because, for example, in a 200 late match, if you wanted fighters that were worth anything, you'd be flying a fighter carrying frigate  against another guys heavy cruiser... and when confronted with a match like that, all the other guy had to do was to pick off an kill one "fighter" at a time... and then when all your fighters were gone, you'd have a frigate against his bch and that would be death for you.

[Dizzy]

Yeah, the game engine allows you to recover and repair any number of PF's you launch. But the BPV's are not modified in such a way to accomodate this. In SFB and for all practical purposes, casual tenders, those with only 2 PF's are not supposed to be recovered repaired and relaunched becuase casual tenders do not have repair and rearming bays. Only Tenders do, those ships with 3-4 PF''s. The game engine doesn not distinguish between the two and so you are left with an all or none setup. So in such cases, a number of players and campaign rules have used 'house rules' whereby casual tenders are only allowed to recover, but not relaunch PF's.

[Dizzy]

So basically, a team calls out a bpv and anything goes....

In those situations, casual tenders are a steal because you are getting a bpv cut on not having mech rearm and repair bays, yet are able to exploit the game engine in being able to rearm and repair them anyway.

[Dizzy]

I've only ever done online matches in the wonderful Mpig and Lamespy.  Never played in the Dynaverse.

You should try a dynaverse sometime... We use PBR like 'Fleeting Rules' that cut down on the cheese combos and we often try using historical allies and enemies along with proper SFB loadouts. Quite a different game and some say much more challenging because the aftermath of your battle has consequences.

[AcePylut]

Yeah, the game engine allows you to recover and repair any number of PF's you launch. But the BPV's are not modified in such a way to accomodate this. In SFB and for all practical purposes, casual tenders, those with only 2 PF's are not supposed to be recovered repaired and relaunched becuase casual tenders do not have repair and rearming bays. Only Tenders do, those ships with 3-4 PF''s. The game engine doesn not distinguish between the two and so you are left with an all or none setup. So in such cases, a number of players and campaign rules have used 'house rules' whereby casual tenders are only allowed to recover, but not relaunch PF's.

Ah yeah, I kinda remember a lot of people griping that fighters would also be restored to full strength for free everytime they returned to the mothership.  Didn't know it was a similar situation with pf's.