Topic: Anyone care to talk tactics?  (Read 42331 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Panzergranate

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Gender: Male
  • Aw!! Da big nasty Klingon L7 killed da kitty kat!!
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2007, 11:39:58 pm »
I forgot to add in the other LAN campaign battles that we played out over the weekend to cover 3 campaign "days".

Two seprate groups of Kzinti frigates, 1 x SF and 8 x FD, entered Klingon space, located and attacked two seperate convoys. In the forst attack all 9 Kzinti frigates were destroyed for no losses by Klingon convoy of 3 x A3 corvettes, 2 x A2AK corvettes and 1 x FSPh and 3 x FS

The second convoy consisted of 3 x A3 corvettes,  1 x FSPh and 5 x FS. ONe FS was detroyed. All 9  Kzinti frigates were destroyed.

(Kzinti frigates are really crap!!)

A Kzinti invasion force entered a large planetary system only to find a Klingon task force camping there. They made the fatal mistake of not running away!!

The Klingons forces were:

C8K (IKV Fanatic), 2 x D18 Laratan heavy destroyers, 1 x D6K, 1 x D6S, 1 x D6V, 1 x D5L, 2 x D5K

The Kzinti forces were:

1 x CC+, 1 x CS, 1 x MAC, 3 x MDC, 3 x FTL.

It was a Turkey shoot and all Kzinti forces were destroyed. I chalked up 2 x FTL flying a D18 Laratan. We left the C8K on AI and it just wiped the Kzinti out on auto pilot

The C8K, 1 x D18  and D6s engaged the warships whild the D5s and my own D18 chased down the fleeing large troop ships. We didn't even bother to launch fighters or shuttles!!

No Klingon losses.

C8K (IKV Londas) and 2 x D18 (IKV Violence and IKV Bad Moon), in pursuit of surivors of the Monitor battle, were caught in open space by another Kzinti task force consisting of 1 x MCC, 4 x MEC, 1 x MCV, 3 x MC.

Despite pedaling like f**k for the map edge to disengage, the C8K was destroyed in a hail of drones. Both D18s suffered the same fate.

No Kzinti Losses.

So far all the battles hve been in Klingon space. We are allowing them to throw ships at us so that we can chew them up. They've lost quite a lot of BPV points worth of ships, equipment and troops so far, which they're replacement BPV points won't cover completely, when reinforments are allowed to be bought soon in the campaign.

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline Panzergranate

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Gender: Male
  • Aw!! Da big nasty Klingon L7 killed da kitty kat!!
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2007, 09:46:52 pm »
Another campign "day" this evening.

A Kzinti warfleet consisting of 1 x CC, 1 x MSC, 1 x CV, 3 x CH and 3 x DW turned up in one of our asteroid mining fields and attacked the mining station there.

No Kzinti losses obviously.

They came within extreme special sensor range of one of our frigate goups, who are now in pursuit.

A Kzinti warfleet consisting of 1 x CC, 1 x MSC, 1 x MCV, 3 x CH and 3 x FTL launched an attack on a medium resource planet system.

Klingon forces were: 1 x F5L, 2 x F5D, 5 x F5K and 1 x F5S scout.

I commanded two of the F5Ks and the F5S, my son flew 3 x F5K and Dave flew the F5L and 2 x F5Ds.

We kind of figured that they'd expect us to play campaign strategy and make a beeline to destroy the MCV and MSC, so we didn't. We didn't head for the 3 x FTL troopships either.

The cunning plan was to all go for the CC and hopefull take this out. However, we had to feign an attack on the troopships by heading straight for them, dumping out some Drones and then peddling away as if fleeingthe field wheb the warships started after us.

The Kzinti sent the 3 xFTL to the blue planet accompanied by the MCV and MSC whilst the posse of the CC and 3 x CH chased after us.

We fled towards the star and into the radiation field until range 50 and then cut speed to 9,  turned and reversed course at the Kzinti posse. They fired Drones at range 15, which obviouly died in the radaition zone. This left them vulnerable and all 9 of our frigates flew over the CC and hit it at range 2 before increasing speed to 31 and heading for the blue planet. The trick worked and the CC was destroyed. The 3 x CH had declerted to engage us and lost ground accelerating and turn to pursue.

One of the F5Ds died as well from Kzinti direct weapons fire.They had concentrated their fire of the F5Ds for some reason and another was badly damaged during the maneuver.

I ordered my 2 x F5Ks to follow the F5L and took the stricken frigate in tow behind my F5S scout, hoping to add a bit more speed to it. However, speed 15 was as fast as I could tow it at and the 3 x CHs were closing, so it had to be cut adrift. Dave had ordered his F5L to follow my son's 3 F5Ks and carried the flag over to manage the damage control personally. Aparently it was a real mess and he decided to leave it toi ts fate and went back to his F5L.

I cut the tow and Dave ordered it to the moon in the hope that it might either survive or act as a decoy. A wave of Drones finished it off.

My own ship was over range 40 from the main mass of frigates, who were now going in for a do or die attack of the FTLs. Via the F5S's special sensors I was able to survey the damage of their attacks. The Kzinti CHs were just in range to annoy me with Ph2 fire and I decided to try to decoy them by heading for the nearest map ege and away from the other frigates.

Meanwhile, one of the FTLs blew up.

My son was down to his last F5K and Dave was now busy trying to keep his F5L alive as the MSC and MCV had taken a personal interest in him and was taking chunks out of him after his port side shields gave out.

The CHs  didn't take the bait and continued after the frigates. Not before launching all their shuttes after me, which saw me back on course for the star again.

Dave, seeing the CHs closing and being designated flotila commander in this scenario, sent, "Every Klingon for himself!!" and pormptly headed for the nearest map edge.

My son's F5K was so badly shot up by now to run away, decided to turn and attack one of the FTLs again. The MSC took him out though the FTL he targeted dropped speed to 4 after he went Nova over it!!

My dive into the radiation field killed off the horde of shuttles and I warped out of the system.

We decided to order the F5L to the reserve pool and the F5S to lurk in a distant just in special sensor range nearby square to monitor Kzinti activity in the captured system.

The loss of this system will knock 750 BPV off of our replacements points purse.

Replacements can be bought, if required, every 10 campaign days.

The campaign goal is to deprive the opposing side of the ability to replace losses by capturing or destoying various BPV generating resources. Without ability to replace losses, the opposing forces become weaker and capturing more resources becomes easier. It is a more realistic attrition system than Hex flipping and both sides have to carefully consider all kinds of factors, even down to what ships to buy as replacements.

General BPVs generated by planets and bodies per 10 campaign day period  are:

Blue Planet = 500 BPV.
Red Planet = 300 BPV.
Moon = 250 BPV.
Gas Giant = 100 BPV.
Asteroid Field = (Small) 50 BPV, (Medium) 100 BPV, (Large) 150 BPV.
Asteroid Belt = (Small) 25 BPV, (Medium) 50 BPV, (Large) 75 BPV.
Odd Asteroids = 5 BPV.

Also freighters traveling between systems and asteroid belts/fields, generate BPV in the campaign. Freighters are given orders by the controling side and then ply between designated  systems, adding their BPV contribution to the purse every time they reach a system They continue to trundle backwarsd and  forwards until destroyed or re-assigned. Freighters also cost BPV to replace.

Contribution to the BPV purse:

Small freighter = 2 BPV.
Medium Freighter = 4 BPV.
Large Freighter = 6 BPV.
Ore Carrier = 8 BPV.
Cargo Pod = 4 BPV.

Facilities:

Ore Processing Station = 200 BPV.

The campaign map is 65535 x 65535 squares. Each square represents 1 light days' worth of movement. All ships are assumed to travel at their best cruising speed, not maximum speed.  Therefore, a ship cruising at Warp 3 (27c) coveres 27 squares per campaign day. An average Klingon or Lyran warship with a crusing speed of Warp 6 (216c) covers 216 squares in a campaign day.. Most Kzinti warships cruise at Warp 5, being behnd other races in Warp technology. Freighters all cruise at Warp 3 (27c)

A ship on Impulse Power will cover 1 square per day.

Both side have fleets as large as 250 ships and facilities logged into the campaign manager computer. Both sides have to enter a seperate password to continue the camapaign, so no spying is allowed.

Scouts and special sensors. Range of surounding squares Long Range Scanable by ships:

Shuttle = 0
Fighter = 0
Freighter = 0
Any Warship = 1
Scout = 2
Survey Freighter = 2
Survey Pod = 2
Survey Crusier =3
AWAC Crusier = 4

Long Range Scan Jamming ranges:

Scout = 1
Curvey Cruiser = 2
AWAC Cruiser = 3 (Federation only so far with this ability with USS Marco Polo NCC 1290 and USS Magellan NCC 1291)

N.B. If any member ship is jamming then a fleet is unable to long range scan surrounding squares.

OK, this is why both sides are using at least 1 scout or survey type vessel in their fleets. They'd be blind and vulnerable without them. It also makes them key targets to hit as well.

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline Panzergranate

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Gender: Male
  • Aw!! Da big nasty Klingon L7 killed da kitty kat!!
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2007, 09:56:28 pm »
I thought I'd add a tactic I find myself using a lot recently, when doing the unusual (fiorr a Klingon) thing of having to run away from a huge posse of hostile ships.

OK, we'll call this tactic "Barnstorming" and the reason why will become clear.

This is a tactic intended to help a lone ship increase the distance between itself and a posse of human controlled , AI controlled or mixed formations.

You will need a large planetary body for this tactic. Oprha Winfrey might do but be careful not to be mistaken for a snack!! ;D

Head for the planetary body at maximum speed by tellinghelm to orbit it.

When within range 15, take over the helm and fly as close as you dare, idealy as close as rabge 1 to the surface. This requires some skill and some of you will probally be very good at this, other will crash and burn!! ;D

Do this for half  to three quarters of the orbit and then head out into space again.

OK what does this do to the enemy ships.

Assume that there are 3 x hostile ships hot on the lone ship's tail taking pot shots at range 30 to 40. One ship is human controlled and the other two are AI controlled.

The AI controlled ships will not go closer than range 15 and will skirt wide around the planettary body. This means that they will loose ground, maybe even become out of range to fire.

The human player is faced with a dilema here. If he tries to copy your flight path, he could crash and burn!! :) A good result for you. He needs to copy your flight path otherwse he will loose ground on you and maybe move out of weapons range. Another bonus for you!! :)

If he manages to not do this then he will have created a distance between himself and his AI allies, perhaps giving you a tactical edge. If we're taliking of a buch of frigate chasing a CL or CA, then to suddenly be the only frigate near the prey is not a good idea. :(

Huggung planets like this takes a lot of skill and practice but will force a chasing ship to either chicken out and loose ground or risk adding a new crater to a moon.

For the advanced version of this tactic, have your allied players tell their respective helms to follow your ship atrange 1 as you perform the maneuver.

We haven't perfected this in practice sessions yet, ending up in formation crashes so far!! ;D

Best not to try this after drinking beer either (see crashes above!!).

 

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline Panzergranate

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Gender: Male
  • Aw!! Da big nasty Klingon L7 killed da kitty kat!!
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2007, 04:47:30 pm »
We managed to track a Kzinti SSCS led formation in today's campaign meeting.

Their course was projected and we met them in open space with a seriously considered task force consisting of:

1 x C7, 2 x D6P, 1 x D7E (IKV Mystique), 4 x D7K and 1 x AD5

The IKV Mistique was providing jamming for the task force in ambush and other patrol scouts were keeping tabs of the Kzinti SSCS group's progress.

Contact was made in large open space and the Kzinti force was determined to be made up of:

1 x SSCS, 1 x SC, 1 x CC, 6 x CH

I flew the D7E and 2 x D7K

Dave flew the C7, AD5 and 1 x D7K

My son flew a D7K and both the D6P.

We did a feint attack on the Kzinti formation and then turned tail and headed away at speed, dumping cluster packs and firing Drones at the pursuing Kzinti cruisers.

Meanwhile, my son, in command of the D7K and D6P squadron, headed off of a tangent from the SSCS and away from us at speed 20 charging up weapons.

As cunningly planned, the SSCS lagged behind the cruisers because of its slow acceleration and speed. But then it spots the D7K and D6P squadron out on its own and decides to head for them. This was part of our plan. ;D

My son turned towards the SSCS and dropped speed to 15. He switched control to one of the D6Ps and the distance closed. For some reason the SSCS player must have made the big mistake of not having the target tactical scan display up because what happened next definately caught him by surprise.

The SSCS dumped out Drones and what wasn't PDed splatted on boosted forward shields.

At Range 2, as the Klingon ships were about to overfly the SSCS, the D6Ps let loose all 8 of their Plasma Torpedoes, dumped Suicide Shuttles and fired everything else capable of firing. The result was a fatal for the SSCS as it just stopped dead.

Meanwhile, a big starship dogfight was happenening about 180 clicks away and carnage was in progress. The enemy seemed to be confused by the D7E tag and must have assumed that it was an anti-Drone cruiser, like an D5E and not a heavy cruiser scout. They generally steered clear of it. The C7 and AD5 did attract a lot of fore and the AD5 was taken out.

When the SSCS was trashed by the D6Ps, the SC and CC broke off and headed for it. I broke off with the D7E and gave chase but ran into an aft Drone salvo, reducing mt speed to 16 for a while. I still managed to knock the last of the CC's aft shield out with what weapons still fired. Meanwhile, the SSCS was nuked out of existance by a Drone salvo from my son's D7K. He now turned away, at speed 20, from the closing SC and CC to charge up the Plasmas again.

Meanwhile my crippled D7E had attacted the Vultures and a battered Kzinti CH started after me. Luckily Dave had spotted it and popped out to deal with it. However, the CH managed to loose of a fair amount of Drones which caught up with me damned quick,taking out all power. Speed dropped to 0.

However, I had some hangar left and launched a Shuttle on protect me. I locked a Tractor onto the Shuttle and then told it to head for my son's D7K. It worked as I was moving at maybe speed 10, being towed by a Shuttle. This eneabled me to focus what power I had left on repairs. I managed to launch a second Shuttle on protect me mode.

Both my own D7Ks ended up destroyed. The surviving Kzinti CHs, Drone racks exhausted, were now in trouble and were trying to cut their losses and running for the map edge, but Dave kept forcing them to turn and fight with his battered D7K by taking pot shots at their shield gaps.

My son took out the CC's forward shields and weapons systems with the D6Ps and then turned to engage the SC. He ordered his D7K to back up Dave way over the map.

My D7E could manage speed 20 now and the bow Ph1s were back online. I had traces of forward shields and decided to have a go at the disabled CC. Dave's D7K failed to stop the CHs from exiting the mpa edge. Only two Kzinti CHs had survived.

A quick check with Dave revealed just how bad things were on his last ship. He was out of spares, lacked power, had two Phasers left and was out of boarding parties, so I suggested that he sit the rest of the battle out as we didn't want to loose yet another heavy cruiser.

The SC was making a run for it from the middle of the map and had my son's posse in pursuit. I wasn't going to catch the SC and the CC had died before I was even n range. I set course for Dave's D7K hulk. and left my son to catch the limping SC. It died in pretty spectacular fashion well short of the map edge.

The campaign computer was told the battle results and both sides issued new orders to their respective survivors. In our case, we ordered the fleet back to a starbase to await the arrival of reinforcements from the rear line reserve pool deployment zones or to attach up other survivors.

We figurethat the Kzinti players did the same with the 2 x CHs.

Somehow, I don't think the surprise element of the D6P "Plasma boats" will work again next time we use them. The tactic we used won't work again either.

Other skirmishes were a few one on one with scouts fighting scouts. These were Kzinti infiltration probes and missions. The puny Kzinti FS is no match for the L22 BOP or K2 Artor. Also some Kzinti FS were intercepted when they attempted to attack lone border skiffs and gunboats on our flanks.

One of our infiltration L22 BOP scouts, deep inside their lines, has detected a few interesting targets for later.

We'll see what the Kzinti players do tomorrow afternoon (Sunday), when we continue the campaign.

Meanwhile there is much celebration of a victory, at last, on the Klingon side. :) It cost us a lot though in D7Ks, AD5  and C7!! :(

Our current losses look like they'll exceed the BPV bonus for replacements. We might end up having to use D5s to replace D6K and D7K losses, if we want to keep numbers up. :-\

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline Age

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2690
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2007, 09:12:45 pm »
well for me i first set my torpedo to proximity (explode near the ship).

then i use a probe to see what's i face and plot some commando to destroyed the drones and add (if they have one) and the tractor beam.

then i already have a scatter pack ready and suicide shuttle  that i will lunch on them, i wait so i have destroyed the add for both shuttle.

also i will re enforce my shield and put the ecm eccm to 3 both and flight at speed of 20 max and fire all weapons when  i get close to 5 (to do the most damage to them).

i always play fed and only in single player since the com with the game is not connected to the net.
Don they are talking online her on the Dyna.

Quote
Originally posted by FPF DieHard
Would this be a good place to post some films?   I've got a whole library of PvP kills from vairous D2 severs that demonstrate tactics in a live environment.   The only issue is some of them may not load to to the modded shiplists but most SHOULD work.
DieHard .I would upload all those films up to YouTube.

Offline Panzergranate

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Gender: Male
  • Aw!! Da big nasty Klingon L7 killed da kitty kat!!
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2007, 07:21:27 am »
I found a website, a few months ago, dedicated to actual space weapons science from the 1980's Star Wars defence programme. Particle Cannons were tested along with other ideas, to hit incoming nukes.

Particle cannons worked out to be more damaging than Lasers BUT the particle jet could be simply deflected / repulsed by even a low level magnetic field.

The Plasma cannon (basically an artificial Solar Flare Gun) would be a short range weapon as the shots immediately expand into a "bloom" due to charge repulsion and limited gravitational attraction. Range was estimated at a few hundred metres.

Kenetic Energy Projectile (KEP) offered the best performance especially when fired from a recoiless llaunch such as a Rail Gun. Range is unlimited, accuracy against moving targets over range, depends on the deflection shot software on the targeting computer.

Nuclear Warheads are not that effective in space as these depend highly on atmosphere to generate heat and plasmatised gas for blast effect. Rather like a depth charge needs water to fully fuction effectively.

Kind of explains the move to Anti-Photonic and Anti-Matter based weapons in Star Trek.

Disrupters have been a subject of US and other millitary research. The Cubans accused the US of using Sonic Disrupter based weapons against some of there troops duingthe Grenada Invasion.

Disrupters in space need a medium through which to transmit the wracking shock wave, normally carried by atmosphere. In Star Trek, a jet or burst of particle based energy is projected at the target and the shock wave is transmitted by it. Depending on the frequency and magnatude (in Tetrawatts) of the sonic shock wave contained within, determines the effect the range and effectiveness of the Disrupter hit.

As with Particle Cannons, Phaser and Lasers, Disrupters are a near light speed weapon.

Rail Guns, Plasma Cannons, etc. are extremely low velocity weapons, with velocities of bellow even 1/10th light speed as they both use magnetic acceleration coils to launch the shot.

Missiles and Torpedoes can be sublight, lightspeed or Warp capable depending on the propulsion technology used. Therefore Warp Speed Nukes are feasable.

I liked the idea of the large cloaked Skipper Anti-Ship Missile in Wing Commander. It was Impulse Powered. Now there would be an interesting weapon to incorporate into SFB and SFC. ;D

SFB Volime.III. introduces Klingon shield burrowing Drones, Point Blank Ph1 Drones and other devious types. It also intruduced the Plasma Rack (PlaR), but the less sais about that the better. ;D

 
The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline Panzergranate

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Gender: Male
  • Aw!! Da big nasty Klingon L7 killed da kitty kat!!
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2007, 06:30:32 pm »
Fighters...... we have some arguments about one particular fighter operational subject here in our LAN games.

This is whether it is better to let the fighters head off towards the target as they launch or to have them circle the carrier and wait until all the squadrons are together in a huge wing formation.

Needless to say, with the latter "form up" tactic, some of the bigger carriers take quite a long time to launch all their fighters, even in fours!!

Having watched a few carrier vessels destroyed whilst in "form up", which also takes out most of the circling fighters in the blast zone, I'm not a big fan of the tactic.

I prefer to send out one squadron at a time at the enemy, as they're ready to go, keeping the carrier vessel (usually an K-AuxCV, K-AuxCVA or Tug/Pod CVA) next to the map edge and then having it leave the map once all the fighters are out.

I have tried the pre-arranged form up on a planet tactic, sometimes in conjuctions with other fighters and shuttles from allied player CV, CVA and SCS vessels, which seems to best suit attacks on fixed instalations such as starbases, defence platforms and other big fixed targets. The problem is disguising the tactic from the enemy players as they will send out units to deal with the still massing fighters and shuttles.

So which fighter launch tactic do players prefer and it would be interesting to know why?? :)

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline parmenionsShade

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #67 on: October 03, 2007, 11:44:47 am »
I thought when the carrier is destroyed/disengages, the fighters are destroyed, too.  I've definitely seen fighters blow up when their carrier is destroyed.  What mod are you playing?

I never play fleet actions of anything like the scale you do, so I can't contribute much, but in my limited experience, I've found that sending fighters out piecemeal is just asking for them to be destroyed one at a time.  Of course, I generally use CVAs and escort carriers, no AUXs, so I suppose the risk of the carrier being killed is much lower for the classes I tend to use.

Offline Panzergranate

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Gender: Male
  • Aw!! Da big nasty Klingon L7 killed da kitty kat!!
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #68 on: October 03, 2007, 05:49:00 pm »
We run SFC V.1.03 this end. I figured out, ages ago, how the game uses the ship list and how to manipulate the shiplist to allow race, other than the Hydrans, to use fighters.

SFC 1follows SFB rules exactly regarding fighters and shuttle, in that they survive after the destruction of the launch vessel. However, those that have lost their launch vessel, will continue to attack the assigned target, protect an assigned object or, if the object to be protected is destroyed, attack the nearest enemy target.

The Klingons only dabbled in a few CV and CVA warships, believing them to be a huge waste of resources and warship hulls. Instead they use purpose built auxliarries and tug CVA pods in front line roles, unlike other races. The Feds only use auxilarries as second line carriers.

The D5V, D6V and D7V light carriers are typical half hearted Klingon experiments with carriers, which are lame when compared to a D5H, N6 or T7 with a CVA pod or two.

There was only one C8V built, which was the Klingon CVA attempt and regarded, by the high command, as a waste of a Dreadnaught.

If SFC 2 and OP has fighters blow up when the launch vessel leaves or is destroyed, then this is not following SFB rules!! :(

Are you sure that they die in later SFC versions, instead of just being mopped up by the enemy??

As for piece meal squadron attacks on enemy vessels, they do seem to last longer and are more effective when supporting other warships attacking the same target.

It's managing to have the time to organise the fighters into a larger combat wing, whilst dodging the enemy's incoming fire, etc.

So if piece meal squadron attacks are no so wise, where is best to form up the squadrons into a combat wing?? Around the launch vessel or arrange a form up point clear of the battle?? Fighters do work better enmasse. :)

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline Roychipoqua_Mace

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 786
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2007, 04:43:48 pm »
Hi,
Could someone post some tactics specifically for hellbore-armed Hydrans? I'm sort of fed up with disruptors, but I still like fast, dancing-like tactics. Those newer hellbore Hydrans seem really nice (like TAR, APA), but I just don't know how to fly them. Would a modified saber-dance work (heck, I can't even do the regular sabre dance :))?

Thanks,
Rob L.

Offline The Bar-Abbas Anomaly

  • Alpha Dog
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3009
  • Gender: Male
  • I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid...
    • Alpha Dog Technical Services LLC
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2007, 07:21:45 pm »
I was just curious if anyone would like to share how they approach battle scenes, and how they deal with battles tey are in.  I'm also interested in how long a battle lasts for others.
I personally prefer feds (ok, so I'm not very original), flying a  CLC or one of the BC_ excelsiors.  Sometimes I will up it to a drednaught or a battleship, or maybe an experimental in OP.  Typically, if I'm approaching an opponent of equal or greater BPV, I will keep a low speed while I overload photons, arm a scatter pack, and if necessary a wild weasel, reinforce shields, and if I have a ship with enough power I will try to match my oponent's ECM with ECCM.  As I approach I will often keep a speed of as low as 4so I can load as much power into my shields as possible, I let him blast away, most often not able to get through my forward shields, then around distance 2-3 I will open up with an alpha strike, pass, set torpedoes to normal and increase to maximum speed my ship can go and charge all weapons at once (14 on a BCF). 

...


OK, I haven't read the whole thread yet, and I know I'm coming into this a week late, but would everyone who would let a slow moving Fed BC close to a range of 2-3 please raise their hands, lower their shields, and prepare for boarding by a peacefull team of Klingon emmisaries...


Alpha Dog is in the HOUSE!!!  (But he needs to go out...)


Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13068
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2007, 08:09:16 pm »
Hi,
Could someone post some tactics specifically for hellbore-armed Hydrans? I'm sort of fed up with disruptors, but I still like fast, dancing-like tactics. Those newer hellbore Hydrans seem really nice (like TAR, APA), but I just don't know how to fly them. Would a modified saber-dance work (heck, I can't even do the regular sabre dance :))?

Thanks,
Rob L.

I've flown Hydran but I'm far from an expert.  Long ago I was flying as Hydran on the Dynaverse and had an LBX.  Only its 4 Ph-1 are upgraded to Ph-X none of its other weapons or fire arcs are adjusted.  It gains shields and power but is otherwise just the non X Lord Bishop.  It has a weapon layout that annoyed me.  The Hellbores can only all be fired dead ahead, on any other arc you can at most fire 2 of the 4.  The ship appeared to be a forward centerline ship which should give the Lord Bishop a bad reputation that it doesn't have.  I fought a number of battles vs the AI and could not figure out how to handle it properly.  That LBX drove me crazy trying to figure out how to fly it. 

Then I encountered Tribble in a Lyran BCH (no PFs but top of the line otherwise), almost exactly the same BPV.  Part way through the battle it clicked.  I left the fusion beams off, overloaded one pair of Hellbores and normal loaded the other pair.  I then did a figure 8 pattern closing to range 8 to fire the overloads and pulling away to his stern at range 15 when firing the normals and again pulling away towards his stern.  He was always trying to fire overloads when I wasn't closing in or normal loads vs my overloads.

When he was suitably softened up I boosted to all overloads and suicide loaded the Fusion beams then with reinforced #1 shield went in.  The battle was completed in that pass. 

Tribble made 3 mistakes:

#1/ As I upped my ECM he upped his ECCM.  Then he didn't notice when I dropped it from 6 to 0.  That gave me a 10% power advantage.

#2/ He tractored me at range 3.  His ESG was active at range 2.99.  I waited to break the tractor till his ESG was down. 

#3/ It was the listening post mission.  He didn't need to fight me.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Roychipoqua_Mace

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 786
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2007, 12:56:38 pm »
Thanks for the tip. I'll see how it goes.

Offline Age

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2690
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2007, 03:21:51 pm »
What are some good tactics against plasma flying a Fed CA or CL?

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13068
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2007, 04:39:33 pm »
What are some good tactics against plasma flying a Fed CA or CL?

Phaser boat.  Turn off the photons and keep your speed up.  You have more phasers than him and will have more free power.  Never close enough for his Plasmas to hit.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Panzergranate

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Gender: Male
  • Aw!! Da big nasty Klingon L7 killed da kitty kat!!
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2007, 06:42:58 pm »
My son has played a lot as Hydrans and uses the same tried and tested tactic....
 
He overlloads all Fusions, meanwhile launching Fighters and Shuttles to keep the enemy distracted.

He then closes fast for a close in attack, forward shield reinforced, aft shield off completely.

He then fires at point blank range, passes over the target, drops Suicide Shuttles and Mines with the Q and M keys whilst activating the aft shield and powering down the forward shields.

The whole attack is in a straight line so the Hydran Ship passes over the victim.

He then makes distance to render any repairs and snipes at the crippled victim with the Hellbores, just to keep adding further damage via the weakened or destroyed shields. So far it has always been a fool proof tactic for him though his ship does receive a fair plastering especially from certain Klingon warships.

However it is pretty devestating to over races, especially Feds.

The GORN Double Drive By Shooting.

This is a team skirmish tactic we've used many a time in SFB and SFC LAN games and is more effective with larger ships. It is essential that both Gorn ships have swivel side firing Plasmas, as will be explained.

This is a two player synchronised maneuver that is a good idea to practice on AI before trying it on human players.

1:    Maintain distance until Plasmas are hot.

2:    Select a victim.

3:    Fly towards victim with both Gorn ships in parallel, no more than range 4 apart and matched in speed. (Speed doesn't matter in this tactic!!)

4:    Gorn shup (A) passes to the left of the victim, Gorn ship (B) passes to the right of the victim.

5:    Fire all weapons, from both Gorn ships, into preferably the #3 and #5 shields respectively.

6:    Gorn ship (A) performs a 180 HET to Starboard and Gorn ship (B) performs an 180 HET to Port and targets the #3 and #5 shields again.

7:    The Victim should now be either destroyed or severly crippled so either board, Suicide Shuttle,Mine or leave for later.

8:    Goto step 1.

My son and myself always use this tactic if playing Gorns in a LAN skirmish whether against AI or humans.

There is no counter tactic, even if the victim knows what is about to happen, apart from cloaking ( cowardly Romulan trick!!) >:(, which puts them in a new fix!! ;D In this case, drop shuttles to buzz around and then attack as soon as they decloak. ;D

If the victim tries to turn away then they expose the very shields the Gorn ships are after. If the victim tries to fight Gorn ship (A) or Gorn ship (B), the unaffected Gorn ship still inflicts terminal damage.

Shield and ECM/ECCM options are up to personal choice. My son always attacks with his aft or away shields turned off so that he can spare more power to facing shields. He does have to do some fancy and quick finger work to switch his shield around during turns, but it works for him.

I always run with ECM at 1 and ECCM at 6 as I like my Plasmas to hit home. I'm yet to miss in this maneuver!! ;D

NOTE: This tactic doesn't work against the ISC unless one can break up the echelon formation and seperate out individual ships for prey.

We've developed the tactic in Baconfest and managed to survive with just a pair of CLs, even taking out larger AI ships.

It just takes practice and dicipline to perfect.

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline Dash Jones

  • Sub-Commander of the Dark Side
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6477
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2007, 12:26:20 am »
Panzer, interesting tactic with the planet thing.  I haven't tried that before, might see how it works when playing as a Rom.  Sounds interesting.
"All hominins are hominids, but not all hominids are hominins."


"Is this a Christian perspective?

Now where in the Bible does it say if someone does something stupid you should shoot them in the face?"

-------

We have whale farms in Jersey.   They're called McDonald's.

There is no "I" in team. There are two "I"s in Vin Diesel. screw you, team.

Offline Age

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2690
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2007, 04:24:35 pm »
What are some good tactics against plasma flying a Fed CA or CL?

Phaser boat.  Turn off the photons and keep your speed up.  You have more phasers than him and will have more free power.  Never close enough for his Plasmas to hit.
That would sure take some time depending on who you were fighting.

Offline Panzergranate

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Gender: Male
  • Aw!! Da big nasty Klingon L7 killed da kitty kat!!
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2007, 05:12:23 pm »
You'll need a Romulan warship fitted with Plasma S (Swivels) as sideways firing into the most vulnerable shields (#3 and #5) is key to the strategy.

Note that hitting these shields leaves the victim unable to risk turning to fight as you and your ally's ship HET for the second raking stern to bow pass run. Unless he stays heading away from you, which is what you want, he exposes the now destroyed #3 and #5 shields.

We have tried a similar tactic with a Hydran Tug carrying a Hellbore Bombardment Pod. OK the emsemble is intended for the bombardment of Battlestations, Starbases, Defence Instalations and Planets, only fires to Starboard and is a bit clumsey, but this is the only Hydran ship with sideways firing Hellbores and in large quanities.

In a LAN skirmish (Hydran - Lyran) I managed to take out the #2 and #3 shields of a Lyran CA+ on a single bow to stern point blank side firing Hellbore pass, though lack of maneuverability of the Hydran Tug meant that I was unable to make a quick enough turn to starboard to exploit the damage. Needless to say the CA+ made distance, played the speed advantage and called in allied escorts to deal with me.

Probably would work better with allied ships to exploit the damage inflicted.

So, if you see a Hydran Tug heading towards you, best scan and probe it first, just in case its carrying a Bombardment Pod.

Some of the FASA based ships can inflict sizeable sideways Disrupter firepower (no Phasers!!) and we've managed similar attacks with D18 Laratan Heavy Destroyers against various frigates and heavy frigates. The FASA ships do have better Disrupter firing arcs than SFB Klingon warships, but at the cost of zero Phasers.

It might work with a F-CFS.

Best to experiment with a null modem connection, so that you can player with an ally, and test out tactic on "Baconfest" against AI players.

It would be interesting to see what Romulan warships can use the tactic and which can't. It is important to be able to take out the #3 and #5 shields preferably in the first pass, but second will do. Just taking a chunk out them in two passes isn't much good.

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 10018
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone care to talk tactics?
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2007, 01:29:17 am »
I thought I'd add a tactic I find myself using a lot recently, when doing the unusual (fiorr a Klingon) thing of having to run away from a huge posse of hostile ships.

OK, we'll call this tactic "Barnstorming" and the reason why will become clear.

This is a tactic intended to help a lone ship increase the distance between itself and a posse of human controlled , AI controlled or mixed formations.

You will need a large planetary body for this tactic. Oprha Winfrey might do but be careful not to be mistaken for a snack!! ;D

Head for the planetary body at maximum speed by tellinghelm to orbit it.

When within range 15, take over the helm and fly as close as you dare, idealy as close as rabge 1 to the surface. This requires some skill and some of you will probally be very good at this, other will crash and burn!! ;D

Do this for half  to three quarters of the orbit and then head out into space again.

OK what does this do to the enemy ships.

Assume that there are 3 x hostile ships hot on the lone ship's tail taking pot shots at range 30 to 40. One ship is human controlled and the other two are AI controlled.

The AI controlled ships will not go closer than range 15 and will skirt wide around the planettary body. This means that they will loose ground, maybe even become out of range to fire.

The human player is faced with a dilema here. If he tries to copy your flight path, he could crash and burn!! :) A good result for you. He needs to copy your flight path otherwse he will loose ground on you and maybe move out of weapons range. Another bonus for you!! :)

If he manages to not do this then he will have created a distance between himself and his AI allies, perhaps giving you a tactical edge. If we're taliking of a buch of frigate chasing a CL or CA, then to suddenly be the only frigate near the prey is not a good idea. :(

Huggung planets like this takes a lot of skill and practice but will force a chasing ship to either chicken out and loose ground or risk adding a new crater to a moon.

For the advanced version of this tactic, have your allied players tell their respective helms to follow your ship atrange 1 as you perform the maneuver.

We haven't perfected this in practice sessions yet, ending up in formation crashes so far!! ;D

Best not to try this after drinking beer either (see crashes above!!).


I call that "planet skimming".   Used it a few times myself in my "career".   It's a good way to shake persuit and can also be used offensively with practice, provided that your opponent decides to pursue more closely.

If they do then two options present themselves.  Most pursuers will attempt to bore a hole in your back shield while holding their heavy weapons for the knife fight, anchor or overrun.  But as you approach the planet a funny thing happens...they stop firing.  Thats because they are usually expending alot of concentration trying to imitate your tactic.  If they are close enough you can use T-mines to break down their front shield without to much fear of phaser reprisals on your open hull.  This will give you a decided advantage if you decide to pull away from the planet and he's still pursueing since his front shield or shields will probably be weaker than your back ones.

The next tactic I have used is fairly aggressive and risky.  Basicaly your attempting a game ending gambit.  If your opponent is highly skilled and is still gaining on you (which means they are almost directly behind you) set your tractor to 2 or 3 and when ready het around (obviously NOT into the planet lol; turn outboard from the planet... seems like stupid advice BUT in the heat of batle it happens).  Grab him and tractor him into the planet.  When you make your move ensure that your tractor is set on neutral (turnwise that is) and when you grab him direct it so he will be swung into the planet.   The moment you blow him up hit the dead stop button; just to make sure you don't follow the fate of your opponent.  This tactic is best done with a Light Cruiser or below since heavy cruisers and above don't just come to dead halt like smaller ships do. 

Well thats my contribution to this interesting thread.  I've got a few more though... :)

But remember the game really isn't about tricks and gambits.  Fundamentally sound play, knowing what range to fire from, knowing your ships power curves, knowing when to fire phasers or heavies or both, will get you far more kills than any number of spiffy tricks.