Topic: RSE DDorax class Starbird WIP......

[Raven Night]

Ok, here is my latest "bridge" to the TNG and new era ships. As you know, most of my vessels sit in the new era, but I decided to create a smaller ship along the design lines of the Warbird for a story line I am working on. Here is the mesh....it is around half the size of the Warbird, and is in the TNG time period, still used in the new era like the Warbird.

[Klingon Fanatic]

  Always nice to see a non-Federation ship, especially one from TNG/Post-TNG.

KF

[FoaS_XC]

I think the bottom is a bit too 'flat' as it where, its perfectly horizontal.
The original D'Deridex bows outwards, perhaps, too be different and maintain a certain sleekness it should bow inwards instead.

[ModelsPlease]

Very nicely done !!!!

[Shadowfleet]

HOLY CRAP! Another awesome Raven Rommie! She's gonna make another great addition to SFC!

[Starforce2]

Looks to be too much a ripoff of the TNG D class to me, but regardless it will no doubt kick arse.

[Raven Night]

Ok, just to clarify, and this is by not means an indication that I am not open to comments, Ive already tried a few of them placed here. Thanks for the input.

For the top wing portion, it is almost a copy, shape wise, of the DDeridex upper wing. The center pylon is different, as is the tail, but the overall shape is very similar to suggest a design lineage. The nacelles are very similar as well, but neither are exact copies of course. What I did was look at a huge poly mesh, study its shape in pics, as well as some model shots, and build the portions I wanted to look similar. Then I built out from there.

The bottom I wanted flattish to show a move toward the Valdore...I have a few designs meant to show lineage. This design actually exists at the very same time as the DDeridex, it is just never seen on screen. I contend it was there, just not sent into deep space.

I really liked the head on the Melak. Its one of my favorites, so I tried a Melak-like head on this one and one other ship, both turned out well.......I just stretched them out to be more hawkish.

I tried a few expansions of the bottom, but they have looked silly sofar......Ill try a few others and see what I come up with. It wont be much of a change, but it will be noticable. I want this sucker to scream "I'm the sleek scrawny brother" whereas the DD says "I'm the fat bouncer at the door".

[Rod ONeal]

I like the idea of loosing the lower wing. I think the design would gain a lot of elegance. possibly add somemore "canter hull" to make up for the overall loss of mass. Depends on the scale of it. If it's one of those 1+ kilometer Rommie designs, then you wouldn't need any additional hull even.

[Raven Night]

I was planning on doing a version without the bottom wing. If I do, I will have to thicken up the center pillar as you suggested. I tried a few sofar, but no avail, but it was my original plan.

[Starforce2]

maybe just decrease the size and compexity/gracefullness of the bottom wing so it looks more utilitarian, that would indeed make the ship look smaller.

[Raven Night]

Ok, well, I tried to do a concave lower wing, I decided to leave a trench in the center on the bottom as you will see in the pics, and not bring the concave shape all the way to the tail, to try and keep it apart from the DDeridex. I need to tweak it of course, but you get the idea. I can also do a valdore-like bottom wing, but I dont want this to look like new era, it has to remain believable for TNG.

[FoaS_XC]

Very cool.
Looks, much better.

[Starforce2]

that looks pretty good.

[Shadowfleet]

Awesome wing change. She's gonna be a beauty!

Only other change you might consider is the "tail".  From the side view, instead of curving downward have a neutral curve -- i.e. the same curve up from the bottom as the top. A little more like the original Rommie Warbird, but she was a classic, and I think this one will be as well.

Once again, great work Rn!

[Starforce2]

What about a fantail? CLassic of the slightly older era warships or the armada shrike?

[Raven Night]

Hmm....fantail....thats sounds interesting.

I'll explain my resistance to the bottom wing coming out to the tail, or the tail curl on the ventral side. The problem is that this ship already closely resembles a DDeridex. I'm worried about hitting the "baby ship" syndrome. You know, the "It's a baby Defiant, just add water", the idea that all shuttles look like the ships they come out of, and all ships in a line look too much alike. I want this to be similar to the DDeridex because it was designed by the same designers during the same period, but it has to be different enough to set it apart from its sister ship.

Now, the head accomplishes this, but this has to be more than a transplant and downsize, or a squashdown. Otherwise it ends up like an ugly kitbash.

So, a different ventral wing was in order. As well as a very different connection spar for the ventral neck struts. The pic below shows the areas I concentrated on to set differences. To make a long story short, I had to eliminate the overal "egg" shape, but still make her look like other ships these designers would have made. By doing so, it explains away the whole "baby ship" thing by saying that the same designer made the shuttles for the ship too.

Below is a pic that shows my focus points. The idea was that this ship had to be more sleek, have a quicker look to it. It should be an even match for a Galaxy or a Vorcha.

The similars would be the rear of the head (the flat stages coming out the back), the oval opening on the leading edge of the aft wings, the top wing and the cloak emitters on the spine spar, dorsal side. The differences are obvious...flatter bottom wing, different tail, different head.

[Starforce2]

perhaps if you were to simplify the bottom wing so it is thinner, with less curves, almost like a cold war era mig, except the wings are swept foreward rather than back? Then again that may look too much to the thin support wing style of the valdore. Also, if you want to rid yourself of the baby ship issue then perhaps you ought to loose those D class nacelles? DOn't ask me what to put in their place, nothing strikes me at the moment. The nacelles style of LC's raptor remake simply wouldn't befit a ship of this size, and as much as I like the nacelles on that ship (pretty much the only part of it I still do like) I can't think of how they could be altered to fit a larger class either. Ugh..I'll think of somethin.

Edit:
Ohhh...somethin just hit me like a jem hadar bugship..give me a plain bottom view, nose pointing up, please?

[Raven Night]

perhaps if you were to simplify the bottom wing so it is thinner, with less curves, almost like a cold war era mig, except the wings are swept foreward rather than back? Then again that may look too much to the thin support wing style of the valdore.

I actually considered doing a light version with a lesser lower wing...I like the flat lower wing, maybe it just needs to be smaller. I think I might try to make it look a little more like the Melak...to suggest a progression from the Melak to the DDeridex.

Also, if you want to rid yourself of the baby ship issue then perhaps you ought to loose those D class nacelles? DOn't ask me what to put in their place, nothing strikes me at the moment. The nacelles style of LC's raptor remake simply wouldn't befit a ship of this size, and as much as I like the nacelles on that ship (pretty much the only part of it I still do like) I can't think of how they could be altered to fit a larger class either. Ugh..I'll think of somethin.

So im guessing you dont like this design.....that never happens 

I intend on making a new era version of this ship, much like the new era version I made of the DDeridex...a modern refit. But since this ship did not exist in the first place, I had to create the TNG version first.

Edit:
Ohhh...somethin just hit me like a jem hadar bugship..give me a plain bottom view, nose pointing up, please?

There is a pic a few posts up that might be the view you need.

[ModelsPlease]

If you ever do any Lost Era (Early TNG) designs for bvridge gaping I hope you consider

Mogai class
Type of Romulan Warbird which predated the D'deridex class but came after the C-10 class. Sorry this is the only pic of the design I could find. 

[Starforce2]

nah, If I am going to draw my idea I need a direct ventral view not a 3/4. My drawing ability is mediocer at best, and that's witha  pen, not a mouse..

[Raven Night]

Ok, Ill put up a flat ventral later on today.

I figured you guys would like to see the NE (New Era) version, or DDorax refit version of this ship. The changes are minor, so they wont effect the overall textures that much, though obviously the color scheme will be slightly different (the TNG will have more washout and will be more aquamarine, the NE more Olive in color with crisper details and a bird motif on the belly).

The main differences visually between the two are the engines....the NE versions use a different warp core, so more hawkish engines are in order, and the spine underneath the dorsal wing. It is smoother going back to the tail, with a small protrusion on the sides of the neck going up to the head, ala DDeridex.

Let me know what you think.

My god, you dial-up guys must be killing me.....

[OlBuzzard]

What do I think ?  ..  oh   GREAT !  another Rommie on the lose !

(JK Bud!)

IMHO it looks fine.  The texturing will make the model !  Just to look at it without any textures it still looks good though !

[Starforce2]

eeeww..yur going to put dvoridex engines on it?

[Raven Night]

eeeww..yur going to put dvoridex engines on it?

Lol.....yeppers. There will be two versions, the TNG and NE versions offered, ill texture and release them both. I need the TNG version for a small video bit with the Galaxy class Enterprise.

I know how much you love my designs Starforce hehe.

[Raven Night]

If you ever do any Lost Era (Early TNG) designs for bvridge gaping I hope you consider

Mogai class
Type of Romulan Warbird which predated the D'deridex class but came after the C-10 class. Sorry this is the only pic of the design I could find. 

I'm sorry mate, this post slipped right past me. Ill definitely take a gander around the net and see if I can find more pics. It looks interesting

[Starforce2]

ok, if this is supposed to be an earlier version of the D class, or a vessel in the same era but one class down, I really think those dvoridex engines need to go, they look far to modern compared to the TNG D class. Honestly, perhaps something along the lines of rod oniels tmp rommie could be stuck in there except light the grilles (much like they did on the excelcior)

anyways, I've attached some pix here. Firstly, the cicled part I think would look better if it was filled in an bulged out like the bottom of an oberth. The neck ought to go. You could have launchers or some kind of launch bay at the front edge of the bottom hull if you do the bulge idea (we never see any visable shuttlebays on the D) and that horrible looking front end you got on the head just looks dumb,a dn the "lip" around the area where the torp launcher is looks sorta like the cheesy robotic faces often given to transformer or robotic suit clad superhero face masks....ick!

Also, a wall between the 2 halves of the hull might still be a good idea, even if it is a pylon (thin) styled support and a fan-tail in the rear for visable impulse mounts (rather than having a single warp/impulse unit)

[Raven Night]

ok, if this is supposed to be an earlier version of the D class, or a vessel in the same era but one class down, I really think those dvoridex engines need to go, they look far to modern compared to the TNG D class. Honestly, perhaps something along the lines of rod oniels tmp rommie could be stuck in there except light the grilles (much like they did on the excelcior)

anyways, I've attached some pix here. Firstly, the cicled part I think would look better if it was filled in an bulged out like the bottom of an oberth. The neck ought to go. You could have launchers or some kind of launch bay at the front edge of the bottom hull if you do the bulge idea (we never see any visable shuttlebays on the D) and that horrible looking front end you got on the head just looks dumb,a dn the "lip" around the area where the torp launcher is looks sorta like the cheesy robotic faces often given to transformer or robotic suit clad superhero face masks....ick!

Also, a wall between the 2 halves of the hull might still be a good idea, even if it is a pylon (thin) styled support and a fan-tail in the rear for visable impulse mounts (rather than having a single warp/impulse unit)

Ah, I see the confusion.... Actually the ship you adjusted in the pic is the NE, or the DDorax refit. NE comes after TNG. This is how I break the eras down....

EY:  Early years, from the phoenix onward to the next era, about 2000 to 2100
PF:   Some people call this ENT, but I ignore the series, so instead I call it Pre-Federation, the formative years. About 2100 to 2200 or so.
TOS: The original series, 2200 to 2270
TMP: The Motion Picture, 2270 to 2300
LE:    Lost Era, 2300 to 2350 or so. From the end of the original crew pictures to the beginning of TNG.
TNG: The next generation, 2350 to 2400. This includes TNG, DS9, Voyager and the new crew movies up to Nemesis.
NE:   New Era, 2400 and beyond.

So, the DDorax with the engine pods is about early to mid TNG era, the one with the talons is NE, much newer, a refit. The one you want to show the changes on would be the one with the nacelles.

I also thought about doing a LE version, pre-TNG, showing older nacelles, perhaps no bottom. Something more along the lines of the TOS BOP.

[ModelsPlease]

I also thought about doing a LE version, pre-TNG, showing older nacelles, perhaps no bottom.

I thought your V'Melak was LE ?

Something more along the lines of the TOS BOP

A TMP BoP perhaps  ?

[Raven Night]

I thought your V'Melak was LE ?

Nope, actually it is early TNG era. It is supposed to be running just prior to the DDeridex, technically a redesign or more modern version of the Melak, which I consider LE. This rethinking of the Melak led to the design cues for the DDeridex and DDorax.

A TMP BoP perhaps?

That's actually a good idea...need something to sit in the TMP era. I would like something a little more closer to the look of TOS however, considering the look of the ENT-A and D-7 (not that unchanged from TOS).

[ModelsPlease]

That's actually a good idea...need something to sit in the TMP era. I would like something a little more closer to the look of TOS however, considering the look of the ENT-A and D-7 (not that unchanged from TOS).

I completely agree

[Raven Night]

I think, if I am going to do a TMP BOP, I will have to start with the warp nacelle. This will set off the entire ship.

Unfortunately, my idea for a TMP nacelle was trumped by the nacelles they used for the Enterprise in ENT (ugh...I hate even saying that). The nacelles on the ENT Enterprise would have been how I envisioned Romulan TMP nacelles. Then again, the ENT Enterprise is how I would have envisioned a LE Akria, or heavy cruiser...certainly not Pre-TOS.

[ModelsPlease]

Well there's nothing to say you can't draw inspiration from the ENT nacelles to create your TMP/TOS BoP's 

[Raven Night]

Good point...I guess my difficulty will be the vents.....see, there is one problem with TOS romulan plasma vents.

There weren't any.

And the TNG plasma vents were...well...boxy. So it would have to be something inbetween, but have a good reason to be there.

Except for ships that have nacelles directly connected to the wings, all Romulan vents face inward. So inward it probably is.

But here is the question....were the spinning doohickies on the front of the Romulan BOP the plasma vents? Thats the question to which I need an answer before I proceed.

After all...they cant be ramscoops. Romulan warp cores do not use antimatter...they use a micro black hole.

[Starforce2]

Good point...I guess my difficulty will be the vents.....see, there is one problem with TOS romulan plasma vents.

There weren't any.

And the TNG plasma vents were...well...boxy. So it would have to be something inbetween, but have a good reason to be there.

Except for ships that have nacelles directly connected to the wings, all Romulan vents face inward. So inward it probably is.

But here is the question....were the spinning doohickies on the front of the Romulan BOP the plasma vents? Thats the question to which I need an answer before I proceed.

After all...they cant be ramscoops. Romulan warp cores do not use antimatter...they use a micro black hole.

Why not use a radiator styled grille, similar to the bcfiles raptor class?

[OlBuzzard]

Good point...I guess my difficulty will be the vents.....see, there is one problem with TOS romulan plasma vents.

There weren't any.

And the TNG plasma vents were...well...boxy. So it would have to be something inbetween, but have a good reason to be there.

Except for ships that have nacelles directly connected to the wings, all Romulan vents face inward. So inward it probably is.

But here is the question....were the spinning doohickies on the front of the Romulan BOP the plasma vents? Thats the question to which I need an answer before I proceed.

After all...they cant be ramscoops. Romulan warp cores do not use antimatter...they use a micro black hole.

One option might be to locate them on the bottom edge of the nacelle  (possibly toward the front end).  They would be less conspicuous   ...  yet would still give you the added detail needed.

just a thought !

[Raven Night]

Both are good ideas, Maybe a combination of both....a grill set that is underneath, toward the front of the nacelle. I was thinking something like a cross between the Dvethex and the TOS BOP, with the older style nacelles, but wings pointing down instead of up.

[OlBuzzard]

oooooooo

that would be good to ! 

Do a couple of each !  I'm currious now !

[Lieutenant_Q]

It is quite possible that early Romulan ships did not use Quantum Singularities and instead used a more conventional M/AM drives.  Perhaps the move to AQS was between TOS and TMP.  Would explain why Romulans were able to use Klingon style ships, and why they went away from them.

[ModelsPlease]

But here is the question....were the spinning doohickies on the front of the Romulan BOP the plasma vents? Thats the question to which I need an answer before I proceed.After all...they cant be ramscoops. Romulan warp cores do not use antimatter...they use a micro black hole.

Black holes slowly leak a form of thermal energy called Hawking radiation. Perhaps the ramscoop area on a Romulan nacelle is were that is vented. Neat and clean and solves that problem LOL