Topic: UFOP Ares class dreadnought WIP.....and hello again.

[Raven Night]

I'm back...at least in limited fashion for now. I'm taking it easy over the next week, I should be back in full force next week.

At any rate, I'll post some of the concepts I was working on in my absence. I've been trying to improve both my modeling skills and my federation designs, and I think I am improving. What I found is that I work best when I create a drawn concept first......then build from that. And here is the first one.

The Ares class dreadnought. Slightly smaller than a Galaxy, bigger than a Sov, more powerful than both. This ship was designed to be a Borg killer. It has a smaller crew than an explorer, and does not have the support that other more mainstream Starfleet ships have, as it is designed purely for combat. It acts both as an anchor for a battle group and as a combat transport...the saucer sections, which seperates as you can see, contains storage areas to hold troops, supplies, or even fighters/walkers if needed (but cannot launch them).

A few points. First, this ship has a cloaking device. Second, it is a 3rd fleet exclusive ship...Marine Corps only, not for use by Starfleet. Third, the saucer has its own warp engines, core and nav deflector, as you can see. Finally, the deflectors are red, keeping in line with all Marine Corps vessels.

I will work out the more specific stats later, on to the pics of my work sofar.

[Raven Night]

And the final pic....seperated.

I'll post more pics if you guys want later. Just let me know.

[Norsehound]

Normally I'm not a fan of TNG designs, but WOW!

The front view makes me think of a sovergin-ified Ambassador.

On your background though; I thought the Sovergin was longer than the Galaxy: fleet Chart by Ex-Astris-Scientia.

It's also a little peeve of mine, but I don't like thinking up fanon ships more powerful than canon ship designs- especially the sovereign, which I saw as the pinnacle of starfleet technology until possibly the Luna class. Also during this time, it seems pretty much every combat-grade starfleet vessel was created with taking on the borg in mind.

And um... last I checked, the Federation didn't (officially) carry cloaking devices in "our" universe. BoBW did, but the only federation ship I know of to carry one is the Defiant, and that was with Romulan permission. When making the background of this ship, how will you answer the question of how these three cloaking devices were provided?

Other than that, I like the design! This is the first saucer separation that I know of that leaves the main bridge behind on the secondary hull while the primary goes off to do battle. As a hybrid landing/fighting ship, this is an excellent move as the saucer can make ground assaults while the secondary section leads the task force/escorts in defending the planet/ bombardment. I wouldn't be surprised if five years from now, in the next trek set post TNG, this kind of move is pulled off.

[Raven Night]

I understand the confusion. This ship, as are all of my designs, is based on the Star Trek Infinity storyline. This is a Starfleet Marine Corps vessel.

The Borg have conquered Earth, and the storyline lays out the battle for human survival. The Romulans approve of the use of the cloaking devices, but have a few restrictions...

All ships that carry the cloak must be registered in the Romulan database, and tracked by the Empire. No cloaking device can be used in Romulan space, with the exception of the Infinity. A Romulan officer must be present on every ship to operate the cloak. Finally, no cloaking device is allowed on Starfleet vessels....only Marine Corps ships specifically chartered to fight the Borg.

There is much more to the agreement in the story, but that is the nutshell.

As far as the more powerful part, most of these ships were designed, along with the Akira, Saber, Defiant and Sov as part of the Advanced Combat Starship Project after the first Borg invasion. General Soong simply reactivated the project and completed most of the designs.

Again, this is very brief to avoid this being to lengthy. Its a story that has existed in one form or another for about 10 years now, in its 4 rewrite now.

[Raven Night]

...and to your sep comment, that was the idea. I wanted to make the engineering section a completely viable and acceptable ship.......as the sep galaxy should have been. I didnt like that every time you saw the galaxy in action, with a few notable exceptions, it had the huge gangly saucer attached. For SFMC vessels, there is little or no saucer unless the mission or design specifically demands one. With no need for rooms for familiy, or a huge crew, massive saucers are not needed.

So, if one exists, it has a specific purpose.

[Norsehound]

Aaah, I see. Well, as far as fan-fiction ships go, yours looks pretty good, both in design and in function.

I wasn't too wild about the instances of saucer separation either. While the multi-vector assault thing was kinda cool, I just didn't buy it. I think the Galaxy Saucer separation was just to capitalize on an idea that TOS didn't show, or need. Traditionally, saucer section separations were mostly to save the crew in the event something went terribly wrong (Ent-D, Hood saucer). It's interesting to see other applications of the saucer (medical ship? hmm...)

Once again, look forward to seeing these completed.

[Don Karnage]

i like the designe of the ship, look cool.

keep the great work 

[Raven Night]

Thanks. The mesh still needs a bit more smoothing, but it should be ready for textures shortly.

[Atolm-Rising]

not too shabby

[Star Dragon]

This thing looks like Guts & Win!

Looking forward to reading your fic someday. You nailed exactly how I felt about saucer seps (and also I personally feel that the entire Galaxy Class compliment should have been reserved for DIPLOMATIC missions only!). In particualr, the Federation Flagship should inspire as much about the ability and determination of it's StarFleet as well as it's Ideals.

  A frontline ship constantly in disputed or unknown space is simply NOT the place for Civvies or Crew Families PERIOD! (I think the PAAP crowd will be the death of the Federation someday)... 

[Raven Night]

This thing looks like Guts & Win!

Looking forward to reading your fic someday. You nailed exactly how I felt about saucer seps (and also I personally feel that the entire Galaxy Class compliment should have been reserved for DIPLOMATIC missions only!). In particualr, the Federation Flagship should inspire as much about the ability and determination of it's StarFleet as well as it's Ideals.

  A frontline ship constantly in disputed or unknown space is simply NOT the place for Civvies or Crew Families PERIOD! (I think the PAAP crowd will be the death of the Federation someday)... 

Well, as a small counterpoint, according to some of my friends the Galaxy was supposed to have extremely powerful sheilds. The idea was to create a ship that was more defensive then offensive. I think the show did not present this properly. I say a good defense is a good offense.

[Chris Jones]

Raven!  This is.....


awesome?

yes

awesome!!

[FoaS_XC]

I like this ship, it looks like a heftier sovereign. I especially like how the nacelles are angled outwards slightly and with the struts bowed slightly, its goes together well.
The site of the ship in MVAM mode kind of threw me, i'll be honest, and If i may be so bold as to suggest something: leave some of the saucer behind. The secondary hull looks a little flattened out - like a cliff. almost something to kind of take up that space, that looks good on its own, but suggest something more belongs to it.


That shows what I mean, from a top down view. Two different ideas I had (the "fangs" werent supposed to be so pronounced, but I'm sure you get the idea.)

Cool Ship. I hope to see more.

[Raven Night]

Raven!  This is.....


awesome?

yes

awesome!!

Hehe, good to see you my friend, and thank you. I talked to moon yesterday, he said he is working with you on one of your excellent massive mods. Ill be dropping by to say hello soon

[Raven Night]

I like this ship, it looks like a heftier sovereign. I especially like how the nacelles are angled outwards slightly and with the struts bowed slightly, its goes together well.
The site of the ship in MVAM mode kind of threw me, i'll be honest, and If i may be so bold as to suggest something: leave some of the saucer behind. The secondary hull looks a little flattened out - like a cliff. almost something to kind of take up that space, that looks good on its own, but suggest something more belongs to it.


That shows what I mean, from a top down view. Two different ideas I had (the "fangs" werent supposed to be so pronounced, but I'm sure you get the idea.)

Cool Ship. I hope to see more.

I could try that.....maybe I could create two slots in the rear of the saucer, so the protrusions on the port and starboard side would fit. The saucer moves back to dock with the main hull, instead of moving up or down like other seps.

[FoaS_XC]

I like this ship, it looks like a heftier sovereign. I especially like how the nacelles are angled outwards slightly and with the struts bowed slightly, its goes together well.
The site of the ship in MVAM mode kind of threw me, i'll be honest, and If i may be so bold as to suggest something: leave some of the saucer behind. The secondary hull looks a little flattened out - like a cliff. almost something to kind of take up that space, that looks good on its own, but suggest something more belongs to it.


That shows what I mean, from a top down view. Two different ideas I had (the "fangs" werent supposed to be so pronounced, but I'm sure you get the idea.)

Cool Ship. I hope to see more.

I could try that.....maybe I could create two slots in the rear of the saucer, so the protrusions on the port and starboard side would fit. The saucer moves back to dock with the main hull, instead of moving up or down like other seps.

Glad I could help

[Raven Night]

Perhaps I should post pics of the saucerless hull from all angles, so people could get a good look at it. For a sep ship, I think it looks good (at least compared to the sep Galaxy IMO).

[Shadowfleet]

Yes more pix pa-lease! This is one of the best fed designs I've ever seen! I think the nacelles would look better if higher and more canon but she looks awesome. Raven you do amazing work!

[Raven Night]

Yes more pix pa-lease! This is one of the best fed designs I've ever seen! I think the nacelles would look better if higher and more canon but she looks awesome. Raven you do amazing work!

I agree, the position of the nacelles is odd for a fed ship. The idea, and this is just my contention, is that the lower the nacelle, the stronger the shields (less interference), the higher the nacelle, the better at warp (more efficient). Thank you for the compliments, but I would have to disagree with the best fed design thing. Atolm and WZ blow my doors off

Here are some more pics of the sep. I wanted the hull to look good enough to operate on its own, and not look too odd. It turned out to be an appealing look IMO, the first sep that I actually liked standing on its own. The premise is simple of course...saucers are extra weight. They exist to hold personell or storage, but little else. The ability to shed that dead weight makes the ship a better fighter. The Defiant is a good example. Some argument could be made that it is a saucer without a main hull, but I contend, because of its layout, that it is a main hull without a saucer...with a deflector pod in the nose, warp nacelles attached to the sides, impulse plugged in on the back.

At any rate, here are some more facings......opinions are welcome.

[Starforce2]

sec hull looks like a fly'n uboat lol. Perhaps keep the nacelles but get rid of the angle in the pylon at the end have the pylon go strait in.

[Raven Night]

sec hull looks like a fly'n uboat lol. Perhaps keep the nacelles but get rid of the angle in the pylon at the end have the pylon go strait in.

I actually did do one version like that, the only problem was it looked too much like the others ones I'm doing, and I wanted a Galaxy nod in there. This ship gives slight nods to four of my Fed faves...the Defiant (cloak emitters on the dorsal spine, you dont see them yet but they will be there like on the Leopard, and the saucer deflector), the Galaxy (nacelle struts), the Sov (hull details, like on the Falcon, as well as the deflector scoop and the bridge spine), and the Ambassador (the saucer shape).

As to the sep shape (like a boat), thats actually exactly what I was going for, I even canted the front of the nose to give that impression. I tried a bunch of different shapes, including one that had a more pointed, shallow nose (no room for saucer) and a flat vertical nose (looked like a brick with nacelles)....neither worked. I think this does, though it takes some getting used to. Comparing it to the Galaxy sep, I think its an improvement.

[Raven Night]

Ill try working on a small saucer protrusion remaining behind and see how it looks.

[Raven Night]

Ive tried a few sofar, but no luck. Ill go ahead and take some pics, post them later to see what you guys think.

[admiral horton]

i like this design, however i dont like the angle pylons. i like the nacelles but they lokk to short and narow for the design but i hope to see more

[Raven Night]

I would be game to make them longer....I'm a bit resistant to making them wider, but not completely against it. Could you post a pic of what you mean?

[Raven Night]

Ok, made a few changes.

First, I streamlined the rear spine a bit, making it flow better. Now the grade from the bridge to the tail is not as extreme and blocky, though it is still noticable. That is actually intended.

Second, I rebuild the nacelles. I'd like to keep the nacelles unique to each ship, so my first attempt is to use the designs I made and try to make them acceptable. I want to use modifications of the Falcon nacelles as a last resort.

The changes are pretty obvious...the bussards flow back farther, the nacelle is taller and a little more streamlined, and there is a shield generator on each bussard intake. I considered adding a third nose intake, but decided to keep the simple two vent configuration.

Let me know what you think...I didnt smooth out the nacelles yet, wanted to see what you thought of them first.

[OlBuzzard]

Wow !  Interesting design..  The overall shape seems very smooooth >  I especially like the idea of the incorporated warp nacelles into the primary hull.  That tells me there is a secondary power source as well !  Excellent !

My only disagreement with the post has nothing to do with this model ..  but rather the statement about the saucers ...  IMHO not every ship in the Fed line is a battle cruiser.  The saucers ..  even the larger one can play a good roll as well as smaller one.  The Galaxy (for example) was supposed to be more for extensive exploration etc.  I realize what you were talking about with the war against the Borg...  that's cool! ( this is just my particular thoughts on the matter ...  and nothing more!)

BTW ..    I think this is one good model !

[FoaS_XC]

Hey Raven!

I just got an idea you might want to consider for the engineering hull. In order to break up that surface instead of going out with a outcropping, make an indentation:
Sorry for the bad photomanip, but you should get the idea.

[Raven Night]

Ok, I made a few changes, just slight ones (made the spine flow up to the bridge a little better, a little more graduated), but instead of posting a close up pic I decided to also cover the size issue.

Now, this ship is supposed to resemble a combination of the galaxy and the sov, sort of. It should be longer than both, with a bridge that is about the same size as the sov. I think I got the sov and galaxy scale right, tell me what you think of this size scale compared to both...

[Raven Night]

Just wanted to see if you guys like the current scale, or if I need to change it.....

[ModelsPlease]

Damn Fury I like that idea as wll great thinking!!!!

[OlBuzzard]

Just wanted to see if you guys like the current scale, or if I need to change it.....

putting the three next to each other is excellent ...

I think the width accomplishes exactly what you had in mind.  My only question is :  Did you intend for it to be as long as it is?  This is only an observation.  I know you have to be very carefull with any changes you might consider.  Those types of changes can distort the proportions .. and consequently end up doing more harm than good.  You know what size (and mass) you had in mind ...  if the model as it now stands meets that criteria then leave it as is.  If you think the over all length is TOO much ... then try  to scale it down a bit.  BUT ONLY if it will not take away from the over all scope of the model.

[ModelsPlease]

Just wanted to see if you guys like the current scale, or if I need to change it.....

I like the length, but I'd like to see the ship a bit wider.

[Raven Night]

I was actually going for something sort of inbetween both. Basically, it was supposed to look bigger from some perspectives, but smaller from others, like the front view. Sort of what the baby of the sov and the galaxy would look like.

In general, this ship is a graduation of what was learned from both ships, taking it to a military extreme. It was actually born from a single scene, where the Enterprise is getting hammered by a heavy borg scout (large sphere) and a Marine Corps vessel comes in to assist and hand the sphere its walking papers. In the written scene, it indicates the class and that it is a marine ship, and one of the deck crew makes a remark about how big it is.

And thats it. Not much to make a ship for. So, I pictured this ship as you see here. Bigger than the Sov, but still having less volume then the Galaxy (after all, its a military ship, no families on board). The ship has a contingent of marines on board, and plenty of firepower, a capital ship in it's purest form.

The fun part about my job is I get to take the story I partially wrote, look at a need (this ship) and invent it....not just how it looks, but its background, history, etc.

At any rate, it sits right where I intended it to. The nacelles were supposed to be slightly shorter than the Sov, but wider, and sitting at about the same gerth. The saucer was supposed to be a slight oval shape, something inbetween the sov and galaxy. Overall the ship is larger than the basic sov dimensions, but still takes up less space than a galaxy, though longer than both.

[OlBuzzard]

In that case  (from all indication ..)  you have achieved a very good representation of those goals !  A VERY GOOD model at that !