Topic: OT: Vista and SFC

[intermech]

Fortunately I am justified in purchasing a new computer this year; however, unfortunately it looks like I will have to get one with Vista. To better understand the tragedy of this; can anyone confirm to me that the following programs run on Vista?

SFC
SFC:OP
SFCIII
Total Annihilation
Age of Sail II
Rise of Legends
Armada
Armada II
Milkshape

Thanks, I appreciate any help here.

[Centurus]

SFC3 will run, however it may not run 100% stable.  I only have experience with the RC1 of Vista before it was released, and SFC3 ran without really any problems, when closing it down the game crashes.  It may have been resolved in the final release.

I've heard that OP runs in Vista as well.  Not sure about SFC2 or SFC.  Only way I can think of to find out is to install and see what happens.  Don't forget the valuable compatibility mode.

[intermech]

Thanks for the infol, sounds like good news so far. I am trying to weigh getting a new computer, reformatting and installing XP. It looks like Microsoft is forcing Vista as the future, so I am willing to put up with the new operating system if it will run my stuff.

Anyone else have any first hand experiences?

[I, Mudd.]

Actually, if you network a virtual machine  on your new computer running Vista to an output folder, with say, WinXP ( as I did with Virtual Box), you can run just about ANY program that runs on XP, INCLUDING 3ds max 5.



I, Mudd.

[Smiley]

I run Vista Premium and it runs 3DS Max 5 without any problems... bizarrely though it doesn't like GDI+ in PSP 8 - I lose window transparency effects when running PSP, c'est le vie! (Though they do come back on closing PSP)

[I, Mudd.]

That's interesting, Smiley. Perhaps Vista Premium recognizes Cdilla where as my Vista Home Basic, does not.

[MajorRacal]

Aye, Cdillla isn't supported on Vista home edition and I can't get Photoshop 7 or Illistrator 10 to work either, but I wasn't aware Max 5 still worked with Premium editions... that could solve my laptop problems, if I can be bothered with the additional expense.

[Rod ONeal]

If you haven't purchased yet, Dell is still offering 4 models of PC with XP.  There's 2 AMD based machines and 2 Intel. Or you can do a dual boot system if you want vista. I imagine that the time will come when we'll all need to use Vista.

[Greenvalv]

I imagine that the time will come when we'll all need to use Vista.

I have nightmares about that.

[Rod ONeal]

You know, I really wish that Vista would just flop. NOBODY asked for Vista. All "we" wanted was a secure windows. You'd think as we went on and M$ got better at producing Windows it might actually get more efficient. Say like... run on 1/2 the RAM as XP (instead of 2x the RAM)? Now everyone would buy that. It's something that people would actually want. What a concept... Actually produce a product that your customers want.

I use a UV mapping program called UVLayout. It's in Beta and you can renew the Beta license for free as many times as you want. It's been in beta for years and probably isn't going final anytime soon. Most of the users actually buy a license though. When it does go final the license is going to be about 40% more than it is now. Everyone figures that they're going to be using it after it's final. So, why not save some money and buy it now. Bottom line, people are buying this app. because they want it. Not because they need to.

[Sapharite]

Damn Vista !! I am statring to dislike Microsoft really  If they will not support the stuff we use here to go with SFC games I will not purchase any new computer or if I will purchase one I will demand the XP to be preinstalled or at least Win2003 which I posses and enjoy having

[intermech]

Well, I might be tantilized by something to replace XP if:

1.     It's memory use on the harddrive does not grow over time.
2.     I never have to download an update to fix problems.
3.     It has a search feature engine that actually works.
4.     Role back feature does not delete my files representing hours and hours of work.
5.     Boots up or shuts down in less than five minutes.


I guess those are all complaints, but if someone really wants to sell me something, it needs to be better and not just have a new paint job.

So, is there anyone else with first-hand experience with some of the software I mentioned?

[I, Mudd.]

SFC2 EAW seems to run just fine. Haven't tried Dynaverse too much, so I can't comment on that. SFCOP probably works fine too, but then again, I haven't installed it. I sold SFC3 years ago, so, no help to you there either. I've also had some experience with Age of Sail II and Milkshape on Vista Home Basic. Age of Sail is a no-go in whatever compatability mode you may choose, but Milkshape seems fine. Interestingly, I had no problems with Photoshop, either 7 or CS3 when I upgraded, though it might have be a compatability mode/administrator mode setting issue for you, Major Racal, IIRC.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but griping about the OS doesn't solve any problems. I wasn't thrilled by the solutions I came up with, as it's rather extreme, but it does work well enough for my needs. As for certain issues some folks seem to have with the OS ...

As I recall, nobody asked for XP either, and there was allot of grumbling about it too. Now folks have forgotten Win98SE and embraced XP in the face of Vista ... I just don't get it. What's with the grumbling? Vista is hardly ideal, but it's here and there's precious little any of us can do about it other than learn the system and utilize it for our needs. If you find a program won't run on the OS, find a way to make it run if you need it that badly. I did.

1. It's memory use on the harddrive does not grow over time. - Haven't had it long enough to notice ... had it since March ...

2. I never have to download an update to fix problems. - Oh, like that never happened in any version of Windows before ... (or Redhat Linux, for that matter) ... there's always going to be updates and fixes these days. One might argue about the sad state of releasing Beta software or whatnot, but that seems to be rather a situation none of us can do anything about either.

3. It has a search feature engine that actually works. - Again ... no problems there yet.

4. Role back feature does not delete my files representing hours and hours of work. - Never seen any of this either.

5. Boots up or shuts down in less than five minutes. - Hm. Only when I tell it to. After installing an update, of course, one must reboot a system, but I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean.

Change is scary, especially when something you love is rendered obsolete. It seems unfair. It is, and no one sympathises more with some of you than I do, but let's be constructive around here and find solutions rather than grumping like old men in a retirement home about 'In my day ...'

I, Mudd.

[intermech]

Thanks Mr. Mudd, your post has been quite helpful.

[Smiley]

Hmm...

The search features in both XP and Vista more so, rely heavily on indexing your files in the background, so if you try and search a location that is not indexed it does warn that it will be slow - however, I am not so convinced that it searches as entirely as in previous systems that operated without indexing - I don't give a rat's ar*e about the contents or type of a file as determined by an indexing engine, I just want to search in filenames, maybe I'm too traditionalist in that sense - compared to new younglings that never used DOS or a command line shell... lol DIR /AD /P anyone?

I think that there are changes in the way that Vista operates that are more than merely skin deep, although there are some relatively big differences on the surface - they have actually updated a lot of the common dialogs that really were showing their age (copying and pasting files, for example) but then I can see that a lot of people would have been perfectly happy with the older versions - and would not want cosmetic changes - but rather functional improvements.

Well I guess you have to think about what research Microsoft has done into what makes people buy new products. There isn't a company out there that doesn't do research into this kind of thing, well, none of the larger companies would omit it - however, it does appear as though they do own the market on operating systems so is giving people what they want even a concern for them? Well they certainly wouldn't want to alienate their customer base...

I would hazard a guess that it's the flashy new bells and whistles that sell - the aesthetics - Macs apparently thrive only because of the common perception that they have style - something that Apple has ran with for years - artists refuse to live without one apparently - it strikes me that it's just a fashion thing really. Everyone has to have the Mac/Apple label - just like IPods and their crappy proprietary file formats - but consumers by and large don't care about file formats, just that it works and they look cool.
Maybe it's the same thing with computers?

Either way, you have to agree with I, Mudd - there is no point in whinging and reminiscing (otherwise you're hardly in the market for using technology at all) - programs will remain compatible with XP for quite some time yet, I mean XP was released about the time I was in Uni so we are talking a good 5+ years ago, and it's only just been replaced - not a bad tenure at all.

It is unfortunate that the games that people are still playing are presumably, no longer supported and patched to work with the latest operating systems - but what can you do? Dual booting is one possible solution, but I doubt that a lot of people will actually bite the bullet and do that - possibly not for the faint of heart and you would actually have to own licences for both!

[Rod ONeal]

Mudd's correct, mostly. I say we hijack the next delivery of Vista bound for Boston though and throw it in the harbor. That'll get their attention. 
After reading your post though, we did ask for XP. We wanted a stable windows that didn't require constant rebooting, and didn't crash and lockup all the time.
We wanted Vista. We want a windows that's safe and secure from all those badguys out there.

I think that if you are licensed for the latest that your license should also cover older ones, as well. If you have a license for Max 9 but you want to run the Bridge commander plugin your license should allow you max 3 as well. If I want to make models for Freelancer, for example, I need an older version of Milkshape. I can legally have the older version of milkshape, for Freelancer work, and the latest version installed on the same PC at the same time.
I'm running XP home. There are certain libraries for C++ 6.0 that run fine with '98, but won't work on XP home. If M$ doesn't want to make XP home backwards compatible (actually they wanted to sell you XP pro) then they should allow the use of an older OS with the same license.

Now, if they could make an OS that used about 64 megs of ram at idle and didn't need AV or a firewall.  Can everyone please start asking for that now, please?

[Smiley]

Bah, no faux tea party references please :p

[Just plain old Punisher]

Funny. All the complaints your making about Vista were made about XP.

You don't have to upgrade if you don't want to.

[Smiley]

Funny. All the complaints your making about Vista were made about XP.

You don't have to upgrade if you don't want to.

Who are you refering to?

[Rod ONeal]

Funny. All the complaints your making about Vista were made about XP.

You don't have to upgrade if you don't want to.

Really?

[Smiley]

Funny. All the complaints your making about Vista were made about XP.

You don't have to upgrade if you don't want to.

Really?

Goodness... and there we were thinking we had to....

[atheorhaven]

Just throwing in a few quick sentences on this one.

My day job is working in the PC support field.  Been doing that for a few years now.  Have worked for, and supported four major PC manufacturers now (the oldest being Compaq, and now a two letter, three letter, and four letter computer company).  I started off supporting Windows 98SE, Windows 2000, and XP.

My home systems run Windows 2000 (except one box that I keep running as an experiemental box.. it's still running Windows 95 with Litestep).    My upgrade path?  I'll be moving to Linux as a serious path.

Activation was bad enough in XP, but I'm not going to be spending time futzing around with an OS that will disable parts of itself because of concerns that someone may lose imaginary revenue from some imaginary people that aren't buying enough commercial DVD's.  To me, that's the reality of Vista.  Not mention the hardware upgrades (again), the useless features, the more intrustive acitvation.  Forget all that.

I've already been spending some quality time with PCLinux, and am going to spend more working with VMWare and creating a virtual Windows 2k box to run my bought copy of 3dsMax 3.1 and Paint Shop Pro 7.  Anything else is migratory into Linux.  And may go with something like CrossOffice to migrate over some of the other Windows applications into Linux.

I may make my living off supporting Windows, but I have not sold my soul to it..

(edit:  Just found this doing my morning reading..   I'm not the only one with concerns..
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40533

[Sandman3D]

Easy way around it...keep your hd that's running all your programs right and dual-boot...or just replace Vista all together. I hate it when they make these "major improvements" to something that worked at least most of the time. I have a puter for the kids that still runs 98SE...actually made my 1st model on that machine, using anim8or...the Ent.A. My wife's machine, which was what was hooked up when we 1st got back from our move of hell, is dead in the water...power supply went kaput. Now we have mine, which I am completely happy with, does all I want it to, and then some. When we get my wife a new computer, I'm just gonna throw her hd in it and go from there...XP works fine for me and her so why bother with vista...until they fix their fixes and runs everything I need it to...or until I can longer run software due to compatability issues, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

The point to this ramble...work around the problem anyway you can until you have no other recourse but get new software that you can run on vista.

[Panzergranate]

I run Vista Home premium here and it fires up on a laptop in the same time as a mate's desktop running Windows Xtra Problems.

Actually, compared to a 1982 Sinclair Spectrum loadinga word processor package from tape, both are dog slow. The ancient Speecy would be ready to word process in 3 minutes or less!! Ah progress eh??!!

I can remember, when I were a lad, when computers were primituve but reliable (before Windows!!) of the CPM versus MS DOS debate. I had machines that ran both and CPM did allow a data salvage option on corrupted discs. It was better but Joe Public went for MS DOS. The same for the story of the 2 meg 3 inch discette. It was water proof, tough, etc. but JOe Public wanted cheap 1.44 meg 3.5 inch discs and that's what we ended up with, discs that fall apart in the drive every so often.

This was the subject in a University lecture years ago demonstrating to engineers how marketting an ill imformed public purchasing choices hpld back engineering progress.

And did anybody read the presient if GM's reply to Bill Gates stating that the car industry would be better run like the comuter industry?? It was entitled "If Microsoft Made Cars!!"  and was very funny.

OK, the GM Pres said that if Microsoft made cars they would require an engine re-installation at least once a month and would crash for no apparent reason at least a couple of times a week. It would be always under factory recall for modifiation and design fault correction. 

He also said that Macintosh would make a car that was 5 times faster, used half the fuel but would only run on10% of the roads.

And SUN and Gateway Amiga would make super expensive cars for the stupidly rich.

And finally....

I saw T-shirt last year with the slogan....

THANK GOD MICROSOFT DOESN'T MAKE AIRCRAFT!!



 

[intermech]

I can't hold on to this any longer.

[Panzergranate]

Here's a great Vista HP bug.

It's with the over zealous phishing filter.

It prevents me from logghing into my E-mails because it claims that the security certificate for the site is revoked.

OK, once in a blue moon, I try to log in to my E-mails and I do make it in. So far it hasn't after 8 seperate attempts so far.

The E-mail site??

Microsoft's own HOTMAIL ID server!!

This problem has started ever since my son joined up with the X-Box 360 freebee 1 month trial thing. As we don't use a router, either the laptop or X-Box 360 can alternately use the broadband connection.

Anyway, VIsta help is that same as all Windows help thingees, useless and just tells me what I already know, things are fecked up!!

Anyone else had ths problem with Vista??

How the hell do I turn the phishing filter off as the computer is running Norton 360 anyway. I've experienced the "protection" given by Microsoft defence products and all I can say is French Army 1940!!

[Commander Maxillius]

Mudd's correct, mostly. I say we hijack the next delivery of Vista bound for Boston though and throw it in the harbor. That'll get their attention. 
After reading your post though, we did ask for XP. We wanted a stable windows that didn't require constant rebooting, and didn't crash and lockup all the time.
We wanted Vista. We want a windows that's safe and secure from all those badguys out there.

I think that if you are licensed for the latest that your license should also cover older ones, as well. If you have a license for Max 9 but you want to run the Bridge commander plugin your license should allow you max 3 as well. If I want to make models for Freelancer, for example, I need an older version of Milkshape. I can legally have the older version of milkshape, for Freelancer work, and the latest version installed on the same PC at the same time.
I'm running XP home. There are certain libraries for C++ 6.0 that run fine with '98, but won't work on XP home. If M$ doesn't want to make XP home backwards compatible (actually they wanted to sell you XP pro) then they should allow the use of an older OS with the same license.

Now, if they could make an OS that used about 64 megs of ram at idle and didn't need AV or a firewall.  Can everyone please start asking for that now, please?

Apple has answered your call, but sadly there are few game companies porting to Mac.  I'm sure you could make damn awesome ships on the Mac for your WinBlows friends though