Topic: American consumption of gasoline increases, again  (Read 2749 times)

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Offline Electric Eye

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American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« on: June 05, 2007, 07:08:41 am »
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2007/db20070604_769679.htm?campaign_id=yhoo

Why Gas Prices Will Stay High
The chief economist at gasoline distributor Tesoro argues that a shortage of refining capacity is the culprit for consumers' pain
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 You have to give Lynn Westfall credit. Not only is the chief economist for Tesoro (TSO) willing to talk to reporters as gasoline prices shoot up to a record of more than $3.20 a gallon, he even stopped by BusinessWeek's Los Angeles offices recently to discuss why prices are so high with Senior Correspondent Christopher Palmeri.

Westfall doesn't paint a pretty picture for motorists as Americans begin the peak summer driving season. Prices are likely to stay high for the foreseeable future, he says, hitting consumers in their pocketbooks. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) says that consumers already have spent $20 billion more on gasoline this year than last.

Tesoro and Westfall have emerged as more prominent players in the energy industry. The once sleepy, San Antonio-based company has in the past 10 years become a major force in gasoline distribution. Tesoro snapped up a half-dozen refineries, most recently the $1.8 billion purchase of a Los Angeles plant, and 278 gas stations from Royal Dutch Shell (RDS). Last year, Tesoro earned $800 million on sales of $18 billion. In just five years, its stock has shot up from $2 a share to $120, a performance that recalls of dot-com back in the day.

What's been behind the recent runup in gas prices?
First of all, you have to remember that 60% to 70% of the cost of gasoline is the cost of crude. When that doubles from $30 a barrel to $70, prices go up. This spring we had a number of refineries not running well. In the past, the industry had spare capacity. If a refinery was down we'd run the rest at a higher utilization. Gasoline demand has grown at a rate of 2.5 refineries every couple of years. We can't expand existing capacity at that rate. The industry is running at full capacity.

Sounds like someone should build a new plant. Hint, hint.
You're looking at seven to eight years and costs in the billions. Kuwait was looking at building a refinery. It was originally projected to cost $6 billion. Last November the price had run up to $10 billion. By February, it was $16 billion and the project was canceled. In the U.S. we're looking at twice the cost because of pollution controls. Now are you going to go to your board of directors and argue for an investment like that?

There are folks in Washington who say there is a conspiracy on the part of the industry to drive up prices, and that anti-gouging legislation, a windfall profits tax, or some kind of breakup of the big oil companies is in order.
There's never been a successful case for gouging or price-fixing against our industry after all these investigations and all these years.

What would it take to get you to build a plant? Tax breaks?
You can't give enough incentives.

Are the big oil companies doing all they can to produce more oil?
There's never been a liquid shortage. When the hurricanes hit a couple of years ago we were being offered crude from places we'd never seen before. There's a lot of panic built into the price, out of fear there will be shortages. And there's been a lot of money from hedge funds looking for a place to invest.

What impact do regulations on greenhouse gas emissions, such as those in California, have on your business?
We're still waiting to see what the regulations will be. They want to take us back to 1990 emission levels by 2020. We can add new insulation, burner tips, and oxygen sensors to reduce our consumption. Two-thirds of greenhouse gas emissions come from burning transportation fuels. If we added more ethanol to gasoline, do refiners get credit for that?

Do environmental regulations affect supply?
Right now, there are 150 grades of conventional gasoline to meet requirements in various cities and states. The specifications are so tight. In the past if one unit at a plant went down, you could still make gasoline. Now every unit at a plant is required to be running at exactly the right ratio. The industry wasn't built to handle this capacity. We're importing more gasoline than ever, 13% of demand. But the foreign refineries were not built to manufacture our grades of gasoline.

So the future is continued, high prices?
Our society was built on cheap energy. You don't have a lifestyle anymore where you live and work in the same little village. We're seeing tremendous growth in production in places like the Rocky Mountains, but it's only been two years ago that oil producers bumped up their long-term price forecast from $20 a barrel to $40 a barrel. It took 25 years to get in this position. It won't get solved quickly.

My notes:

Not very bright, the current "Devil may care" attitude towards spending more disposable income on driving.

At least we know it wasn't the oil companies as this guy said we were offered oil from the rarest of vendors.

Hedge funds, they seem to be keeping the price high because they have the billions and billions of dollars to keep it that way. Maybe we should go back to the days before these mega-funds came along and ban them?

Then there is this:

Sounds like someone should build a new plant. Hint, hint.
You're looking at seven to eight years and costs in the billions. Kuwait was looking at building a refinery. It was originally projected to cost $6 billion. Last November the price had run up to $10 billion. By February, it was $16 billion and the project was canceled. In the U.S. we're looking at twice the cost because of pollution controls. Now are you going to go to your board of directors and argue for an investment like that?

Hmmmm, I would have taken SSA funds (It was supposed to be invested, not earmarked for pork) and loaned these companies or created a U.S. Dept. of energy refinery or set of them, and recouped the tax dollars and made a profit to go back in the coffers.

The silver lining in the clouds? At least we wisened up to putting all our bags in one basket (Being oil dependent sucks, doesn't it?), new technology is making more market inroads at rates that scare the dickens out of the oil companies, they know their time is limited. For how long depends on our lack of Congress and lack of good Presidential candidates.


Offline FCM_SFHQ_XC

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2007, 02:47:55 pm »
Even though being American, I still find it so puzzling how more and more of the overall population is continuing to not change their driving habits yet complain constantly about gas prices. I do realize that yea some really cant because they have to drive 50 miles to work everyday, but still that SHOULD mean that oil demand stops climbing and remains steady. I guess they just sorta close their eye's while filling up?
The only good I see in this is that oil will deplete faster, and due to this there finally will not be a choice but to give up on using gas instead of hydrogen/other fuel methods.
Hopefully though the government and the overall population will wisen up before then though....
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Offline Electric Eye

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2007, 05:08:30 pm »
I do not understand it either, but as long as they want to continue then that's fine by me, refinery and oil tanker stocks are mighty attractive investments in that culture.

Have you noticed that us as a community care more than the average Joe? I dare say most of the community members want an energy independent house, or as minimally dependent as can be, yet most Americans do not care. Hey, it's their money, not mine.  ;D

Offline J. Carney

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2007, 08:54:51 pm »
Have you noticed that us as a community care more than the average Joe? I dare say most of the community members want an energy independent house, or as minimally dependent as can be, yet most Americans do not care. Hey, it's their money, not mine.  ;D


It's because- by and large- no matter where we stand on the political spectrum, we are generally a bit smarter than the average bear, BooBoo. We all know that it's easy to make your own energy, and we realize how to make it happen.
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

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Offline Commander Maxillius

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 04:08:28 pm »
The sooner it's gone, the sooner an alternative is "found".  Face it, while there's oil in the ground, things like viable electric car technology or fuel cells will *never* get the backing they need to replace the liquid fuel infrastructure. 
I was never here, you were never here, this conversation never took place, and you most certainly did not see me.

Offline Panzergranate

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2007, 05:06:32 pm »
The thing is that gasoline is a by product of oil refining.  If it was stopped being used in vehicles it would have be dumped some other way. The industry produces it without much choice rather like a cattle farm produces manure as a by product.

After refining crude oil 6 times you are left with petrolium. Add some Toluene (need to actually provide the power) , Xylene and a mess of other chemical you end up with Gasoline.

Over here in the UK our Gasoline isn't as crap as in the US as ours runs about 10 to 12% Toluene in the unleaded stuff. The old leaded ran 20 to 24% and GP race fuel was mainly 86% Toluene and the majority was Xylene.

I used to drag race motorcycles in the late 1980 and ran NItro Toluene diluted with leaded petrol. Pulled a 9.91 quater once on a stock 1977 GT 550 B and smashed the clutch with the mega torque increase.  Still managed to cross the line with a shranaling clutch below me!! The fuel drums used to have the best safety warning I've ever seen, quote, "FATAL IF CONSUMED!! NOTIFY CORONER!!"

Anyhow US gasoline is 92 Octane with just 6 to 8% Toluene content. Without Tetraethyl Lead in gasoline the only way to prevent "pinking" and "knock" in iengines is to drop the energy content of the fuel, which the Toluene gives gasoline.'

According to the geologists, oil industry, etc. we have enough land based oil reserves alone to last 500 years.

Our gasoline is about 30 times more expenive here in the UK than in the US due to the 96% tax on it.

You folks in the US still have cheap gasoline compared to us!!

Panzergranate.

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Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2007, 06:50:16 pm »
More people are driving, less options for public transit.

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Offline FCM_SFHQ_XC

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2007, 11:55:49 pm »
More people are driving, less options for public transit.
Very true on this, and those public transit systems that DO come out seem to come out in COMPLETE disaster. I mean here in Georgia for example.. Marta train.. not a bad idea, BUT its almost useless unless your in a few areas where Marta happens to stop. It does a good job of going to the most popular places in Atlanta but they put no thought into putting stations leading into the city. Basically in most cases its actually a 20 min delay in the normal routine to get to a satiable Marta station. Bus systems also are the same way. No good places they stop at to deter people from driving. It only turns out to be a big waste of money then. Money that COULD have been used for researching a more efficient way of producing Hydrogen engines, or other "alternative" fuels.
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Offline J. Carney

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2007, 09:39:31 am »
Until public transit can simultaneously take thousands of lazy people to their exact destination, take them all their first, and take them all their now, it will be easily eclipsed in the minds of all as inferior to driving oneself.

Public transit- in most places- means having someone elses stinky armpits and breath forced on you for 2x-3x as long as driving yourself, and some things are just worth a few extra bucks.
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 08:28:51 pm »
The obvious answer is flying cars. Everyone should be driving/piloting flying cars!


"Sex is a lot like pizza.  If you're not careful you can blister your tongue". -Dracho

Offline FCM_SFHQ_XC

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2007, 12:10:24 am »
The obvious answer is flying cars. Everyone should be driving/piloting flying cars!
That definetly would be a helper :) , though it would be more harm then good if the cars work off gasoline, as now the emmisions can get higher up into the atmosphere
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Offline Lieutenant_Q

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2007, 12:30:26 am »
The problem with Public Transportation is that no one ever thinks long term about it.

In New York City there is a great Subway System that could take you anywhere in Manhattan and leave you only a few hundred yards from where you wanted to be in the first place.

Now take Houston for example, the high water table underground prohibits the use of a Subway system, so what did they do?  They built a Light Rail which was useful for only one thing.  Getting people from Reliant Stadium (Houston Texans) to Minute Maid Park (Houston Astros) and about fourteen places in between.  That's it, and they spent over 50 Million Dollars to get it.  Now they got 2 BILLION dollars slated to expand it to the Galleria, the two major universities in Houston, and another line our to Cy-Fair and to Sugar Land.
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Offline J. Carney

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2007, 01:05:04 am »
NYC had the advantage of it's public transit being 1.) underground from the start AND 2.) organically growing with the city.

Cities that can't afford that kind of coin or conditions and don't have that head start are faced with decisions that are all-around unattractive.

1.) Is it possible to build a reliable, profitable rail transport system?
2.) How much extra will it cost to put the trains underground, if this is actually a possibility?
3.) If underground ids not a possibility, how much real estate must be burned to place above ground?
4.) How many businesses and residences must be displaced for the build in either situation?
5.) If above ground, how will noise pollution affect property values adjacent to the tracks?

These are just the primary questions that a city faces... I'm sure that someone more experienced in this kind of thing could comment more. Huston didn't have the advantages NYC did, and thus their rail system will bemuch more expensive- especially due to higher land costs and displacement costs.
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Electric Eye

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2007, 06:54:57 am »
1.) Is it possible to build a reliable, profitable rail transport system?


The Germans did it, why can't we? Then again, the Germans also build much better highways than we do. If anyone needs proof just ask anyone that has lived there (I did for 3 years) this question "Did you ever see potholes or road crews doing lengthy repairs to the roads?"

 ;D

If you ever ride a German train (Yup, they are all over the major cities as well as from city to city to towns, etc...) please be there before the departure time, because I can guarantee you that train is leaving at the exact scheduled time.

Offline Electric Eye

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Re: American consumption of gasoline increases, again
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2007, 11:58:19 am »
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070617/ethanol_refineries.html?.v=6

Good going! More profits, less B.S. from the govt. and the consumers.  ;)